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Ufo Meets Tftd Meets Xcorps Meets...


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#51 Guest_stewart_*

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Posted 11 December 2002 - 03:50 PM

The better part of a century in the future will completely change the game. It should be in 1999 as it normally is but this time the undersea aliens conduct their attacks as well.

#52 margant

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Posted 11 December 2002 - 04:18 PM

There were no aliens in 1999 why bother having a fake event if we can make something pseudo real and believable?
I do not agree with Stew (but thats only my opinion)

#53 Devatar

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Posted 12 December 2002 - 12:20 AM

Yeah, I think it's better if we start from a later date. Hmm... But the earlier time frame I indicated was kinda far from now, and that would mean a lot of changes. (I wanted to suggest carbines as weapons. :P)

So maybe, just to make it more relative, we could set the storyline in... umm... 20 years from now? That way we wouldn't have to change the architecture of the buildings too much. (less work for our graphics team.) Maybe just add a laser toaster or a sonic can opener. :D

Plus, this way we can incorporate the frenzied attacks of the aliens. (ie. add in a factor in the story that gives them a time constraint to do something REALLY vital to their survival.)
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#54 Guest_stewart_*

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Posted 12 December 2002 - 01:20 PM

There were no aliens in 1999 why bother having a fake event if we can make something pseudo real and believable?
I do not agree with Stew (but thats only my opinion)

Well crimony it doesn't mean therefore it has to be 2080 or something. Someone here has a spec sheet of things they were working on for their version which included starting the game by using the current year in the computer, we can do that. Going the better part of a century in the future is going to make a lot of implications on the plot logic of the game. Beside XCOM 1 was supposed to be the VERY near future, so say take the presnet date and add a few years of something. Future yet contemporary.

#55 Pringle

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Posted 12 December 2002 - 03:06 PM

You can always just put the date in as a variable for now and just change it as and when it becomes necessary...
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#56 Bounty Hunter

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Posted 14 December 2002 - 10:13 AM

I say you should just make it that aquatic alien UFO's should stay on water and land alien's on land and have two transports and two interceptors that way if you shoot down a UFO on water it's aquatic or vica-versa and as for the two different controllers say they have a conection to each other of some sort

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#57 gangsta

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Posted 14 December 2002 - 11:22 PM

Hmmm... I dunno how this cross breeding will work out. Seems like something that can drastically effect gameplay. Perhaps it would be best to introduce that in a special game play mode.
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#58 Guest_Neova_*

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Posted 15 December 2002 - 03:07 AM

I just started to read this thread so bear with me a bit. I'm actually replaying X-Com 1 right now, thanks to the patches here.

I love the idea of playing both versions of XCOM in one game. All you need to make this a reality is to take both xenos and their techs from both games and compare stats, and choose a path to follow:

a) follow original game timeline and modify to let xcom 2 tech appear earlier as stated by another poster
B) create your own timeline and merge all techs and xenos into new "tech trees"
c) just stagger the techs and xenos so xcom is always 2 steps behind aliens until the player comes to the end of each "chapter" or endings from previous games... meaning, research ALL LASERS to get GAUSSE tech, research sectoid required to research aquatoid, and etc... Make all of the XCOM tech research done before you can research XCOM2 techs even if you have captured the aliens/artifacts XCOM2.

Also, we should not limit the techs to xcom 1 and 2. For one, I would like to see some of the techs in xcom 3 (apoc) and some slightly derivative technology from other sci fi games (how about smart guns from Aliens, defense mechanims in bases, expand battle grounds to near reaching planets - eg attack alien moon base, take over, then move to next planet) and let the game span all 3 games but keeping it turn based only with game play derived primarily from xcom 1 and 2. xcom 3 tech and xenos can be a third chapter with progressive play required to reach this stage . Think of it as long turn based RTS game that spans 200 years.

There was also an interesting post regarding recombinant DNA technology. Any of you guys/gals saw the new James Bond movie? There is DNA alteration in there, and while SciFi, can be plausible in its "logic" within 50-80 years of continuous research in the field of genetic engineering. Even Star Trek is plausible as supported by MANY engineers in the realms of physics, chemical and aero space industries. Its just not economical right now or profitable to research it yet. The military has a lot of neat stuff they've been working on that will never see light of day or maybe 10 - 20 years from now.

Very interesting thread folks.

#59 Devatar

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Posted 16 December 2002 - 11:38 PM

Hmm... I see one huge problem with the idea of joining the two games on tail end, Neova. Technology. For example, if humans already know plasma tech from the ufo 1 phase, that is actually more advanced than ultrasonics. Also, plasma weapons are actually usable underwater, you just have to wrap them up in magnetic bubbles. (which I think is what the game designers thought, anyway, since it is the only safe way to deliver plasma.) And plasma weapons will always be more powerful than oscillators, IMO. (I'm always on the side of startrek technology. :D )That would unbalance the game terribly, me thinks.

Hmm... One suggestion, whatever we are planning to do with the tech tree, technologies that use energy/field unions such as plasma tech should be at the end, since it is REALLY difficult in theory to control these interactions. Waaaaay out of human league, folks.
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#60 Pringle

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Posted 17 December 2002 - 06:06 AM

Realistically hurling bolts of plasma energy stabily would be virtually impossible; as Dev says a magnetic field would help but as soon as they hit something and the magnetic field was disrupted they would go crazy; plus fighting at the poles with plasma weapons would be impossible...

I think ideally we should develop our own tech tree and make it a bit more realistic, at least in order of progression; more human weapons would be nice too... pistol, assualt rifle, shotgun :), tranquiliser gun (might be effective on certain aliens, not all), sniper rifle, grenades (frag, smoke, concussion), flares, etc...

You could add extra options like aimed shots to the sniper rifle or spread shots to the shotgun...

Also on an unrelated note... (yeah I'm getting way off the original topic now)... why not have alternative methods of entering battle; realistically the aliens would shoot down any aircraft approaching so what about parachuting, or since the Skyranger is a VTOL craft it could hover on layer 4 and troops could rapel down onto the field, maybe helecopters to deploy troops directly onto roofs, etc...

Anyway, I'm in school and need to go to a lesson now...
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#61 Devatar

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Posted 17 December 2002 - 07:35 AM

:alienlol: Hahahah! That's what I want too! Magnums, AK-47's, Carbines, and lots of Rugers! I dunno, it just seems nicer if we can have weapons that we already use in real life as starting weapons, then add the high tech stuff as alien tech derivatives. Though I think plasma weapons should be in the game, but as something taken from alien technology, as in x-com1.

Also, in theory, if you wrap the plasma in a very stable magnetic field, and then wrap that ball in a dual charged force field, that would buffer any outside magnetism. Kinda like the plasma bilayer in cells. (NO I'M NOT GEEKY. :aliencool: well alright, maybe a little bit.)
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#62 gangsta

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Posted 19 December 2002 - 02:33 PM

:uzzi: well :) developing our own tech tree is something I think we all agree on and has been discussed before. You just have to be careful about all what you add to the tree as far as gameplay goes. Certain things you won't know if they work without the use of trial and error. As for more real guns that too the majority is in favor of looking at previous discussions. :)
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#63 Devatar

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Posted 19 December 2002 - 08:06 PM

Yeah, just imagine an x-com agent using two handguns ala desperado! Kickasssss!!! Hahahah! :alienlol:
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#64 gangsta

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Posted 19 December 2002 - 08:14 PM

I think I got the rules for two guns ;)
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#65 Devatar

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Posted 19 December 2002 - 08:28 PM

Okay, okay. I'll just have to go with the guitar/machine gun.

:alienlol:
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#66 gangsta

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Posted 20 December 2002 - 02:04 PM

:angry: gonna kill those aliens with your music playing? ;)
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#67 Devatar

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Posted 21 December 2002 - 09:57 AM

No, I'm gonna soothe the savage beast within. :P
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#68 Pringle

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Posted 22 December 2002 - 03:37 PM

Well I haven't played guitar for many years now so I'd probably just drive them crazy...

And just to continue the meaningless geeky side debate, how would you sustain a forcefield around a projectile? you need some sort of emiter...
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#69 Devatar

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Posted 23 December 2002 - 03:04 AM

I was thinking of something like an EM emitter bullet in the center of the plasma ball. This approach is simpler on the engineers of the gun, but hard work on the production side.

another approach would be to just put the thing inside a carbon bubble. we could use a very stable carbon isotope, like carbon-300 or something, it would be as tough as diamond, and it would be impossible for the plasma to melt through it. We could have a chamber in the gun especially designed for the carbon matrix assembly using energy from a fusion battery. (which is the only thing short of matter-antimatter reactions that could power such an engine, I think.) Oh, and are we gonna add matter-antimatter reactions in the tech tree?
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#70 Pringle

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Posted 23 December 2002 - 04:48 PM

The emitter bullet idea is nice :) haven't done high level chemistry for a while but is Carbon-300 really feasable? I mean in its natural state it only has an atomic weight of 14, adding that many neutrons doesn't sound like a realistic idea, of course I may be wrong I haven't done chemistry in a while...

Matter/Antimatter would be a nice idea; something I suggested before about modular design of aircraft would work well with this, you could upgrade your Interceptor Engines from standard to fusion and eventually to M/AM (and others in between) without having to replace the entire craft...

Also since we were on the topic of forcefield emmiters thats a random idea, you could build them into your base, or even equip you team with mobile FF emmiters (not the same as personal shields), they could plant them on the floor and it would effectively make a wall, get 4 of them and you can either barricade yourself or trap aliens :) perhaps they only have a height of 1 so grenades can be thrown over them :)
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#71 Devatar

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Posted 24 December 2002 - 03:53 AM

Actually, it is possible, but it would require massive amounts of energy. Since neutrons only affect the mass of the atoms and not the charges, protons and electrons wouldn't mind having 286 new neighbors. :D

Hmm... I just realized something. If we wrap the plasma in Carbon Bubbles, the target would die because of bludgeoning, not because of the plasma. :alienlol:

The EM emitter bullet is DEFINATELY the better of the two. (Although we could just make it a plasma beam and forget this whole argument.)

Hmm... Maybe we could invite Stephen William Hawking to do the physics for us.
:D
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#72 Jesus Escariut

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 06:47 AM

okay this one is probably v9+++++... or at least a spiffy v1.2.

like all things im sure this has been brought up but im throwing it out here anyway, okay we have all played UFO(xcom1) im guessing, and a couple of us played TFTD (xcom2) well thoose that have played the 2nd know it was very thrown togther and rushed out the door, the graphics were shoddy, the story didnt flow all that great, basically it was your typical sequal. well i know it wouldnt be easy but i also know its doable. why not combine the 2 for xenocide v1.x , have underwater and above, i mean the challenge would be ... amazing, you could balance it by having the aliens attack each other, show up at a alien base thats being raided by aliens? you have to get to the commander before the aliens kill him? i mean there is a lot you go with on this one... you have to manage your inventory better since you have above water and below water stuff, harder to please govts since you must keep their air space and seaways clear of aliens...

just a late night to many dewskies not enough cheetos thought :explode:

#73 miceless

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 07:34 AM

I have mentioned this casually on several occasions, as im sure have other people. I guess you beat me to the point of making a thread on it.

I think it would be a great idea. Along the lines of XCOM2 being a remake of XCOM1 we could make a mod. However, we could make it so that you do both at the same time. Perhaps the aliens start off above water and then suddenly they start attacking underwater too. That way, you can start off a whole new research tree.

Its a shame because as you say this is probably a later addon, but I think it would be a good v2 or so.
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#74 mikker

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 07:56 AM

I like the idea of aliens attacking each other...but the storyline should be refined then...

By having both water and air may be too many eggs in one basket though.

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#75 Aosar

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 08:30 AM

I like the idea of aliens attacking each other...but the storyline should be refined then...


Hmm, definedly this would affect the storyline, no matter how it is done...
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#76 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 09:08 AM

I think what was discussed was having the land 1 followed immidiatly by the sea 1. I also think having both run at the same time would be brain overload :explode:

Edit: I think I've posted about 5 of them explode smilies today :LOL:

Edited by Jim69, 03 August 2003 - 09:09 AM.


#77 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 09:36 AM

I don't know, maby we could have an option to enable mixed ufo and tftd?
That would be fun and let players choose what they want. The problem with this is all of those extra models. And a double sized x-net database.

It would be really fun though, and i'm sure that the ctd could come up with some cool reason for the aliens to fight each other. Right? :unsure:

Also, it could get twice as difficult, you would have to pay for subs and planes at the same time!
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#78 mikker

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 09:53 AM

Also, it could get twice as difficult, you would have to pay for subs and planes at the same time!

For it to be fair, you should have twice the money.

I like the idea of underwater comming after Xenocide.


What should it be called? Aquacide?

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#79 dipstick

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 10:04 AM

Yeah we could come up with some war - just give me a few days ;)

Also, it could be combined very easily. All we would have to do is change tech. eg, subs can fly, just not shoot torpedos. hmmm, as I said give me a few days.....
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#80 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 10:35 AM

The only problem with having both research is that TFTD was exactly the same as UFO, different names and underwater. As well as being about twice as hard. If it was included, which is gonna be like v993154.0+++++++++++++ then the research tree should be completly torn up and redone. Just keep the basic premise of underwater and the extra difficulty level. And redo the physics, coz they were crap in TFTD. On second thoughts it prob would be a kinda sequal, which is so far in the future that I'll just shut up now :)

#81 dipstick

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 10:46 AM

It shouldn't be too hard to implement!
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#82 dipstick

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 10:51 AM

Just keep sonic/plasma (ONE) then add a few extra weapons, and voila!
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#83 Aosar

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 11:30 AM

One thing I don't understand about TFTD, why did the aliens have sonic weapons on a space ship? IIRC most of the aliens non-weapon tech was based on magnetism and the weapons were mostly sonic so what good either sonic weapons and magnetism would do on a spaceship?
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#84 dipstick

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 11:41 AM

Don't know. But sonic stuff used waves of the ELECTRO MAGNETIC spectrum. :D
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#85 Fred the Goat

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 11:53 AM

:puke: Wait, they what? Nevermind. I'm sure I just haven't taken enough science classes to understand that one. :D

Edit: That reminds me of one of those cheezy cartoon scenes where the cool 80's rocker type blasts away on his guitar, sending out "sonic" waves from the tip, which are all brightly colored and magic. Maybe the aliens should have string instruments.
:boohoo:OOOOOOOO:explode:

Edit: That was more large, obnoxious emoticons than I've ever used in a post...or several posts for that matter. :hammer: ...hmmm... :happybanana: there we go.

Edited by Fred the Goat, 03 August 2003 - 11:59 AM.


#86 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 11:59 AM

One thing I don't understand about TFTD, why did the aliens have sonic weapons on a space ship? IIRC most of the aliens non-weapon tech was based on magnetism and the weapons were mostly sonic so what good either sonic weapons and magnetism would do on a spaceship?

Magneticism still operates in zero G. At the mo I am building a crane that is going 2 be used on the Internation Space Station at work, which operates on an electromagnetic system.

#87 Aosar

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 12:08 PM

But sonic stuff used waves of the ELECTRO MAGNETIC spectrum.


"Sonic Pistols are an Alien weapon based on ultra-sonic audio waves that jellify bone in seconds" more or less direct quote from the x-comufo site...

Magneticism still operates in zero G. At the mo I am building a crane that is going 2 be used on the Internation Space Station at work, which operates on an electromagnetic system.


:o WHAAT?! What do you do for a living?! :eek: High... Science!?
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#88 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 01:06 PM

Electrical Engineer. Trainee. It's nowhere near as complicated as it sounds :) We buy the motors, build the frame, then I help ( Read, get shown how to :P ) wire up the circuit box leading 2 the motor, and the limit of range that it can reach 2. Not too difficult, a little like wiring up a house, just in a really small box :) I was gonna b a sparky but I got into this instead. I don't really know the ins and outs of it yet as I only just started, I just got told last week that it's gonna be started tomorrow. But I digress...

Point is that u don't need gravity to create a force. U just need an equal force 2 stop it :)

#89 Aosar

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 01:58 PM

Point is that u don't need gravity to create a force. U just need an equal force 2 stop it


I know, but what I was saying; IIRC the alien's navication in TFTD was based on earths magnetism.
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#90 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 02:01 PM

Was it? I'd have 2 check that, they had been underwater for many millinea tho, and altho they were sleeping presumably they were awake once. The could ave been dumped there with the necessary technology to navigate the sea and thats it, tho I don't know.

#91 dipstick

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 02:53 PM

I have a preliminary coming for this amalgamation. You never know, some of it may get the nod from the top....

To give you some idea of it, I am including several new races (mainly from other XCOM games), some new tech, a new war, oh, and a complete overhaul of everything! :D
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#92 dipstick

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Posted 04 August 2003 - 03:30 PM

Right, here is an alpha for Alien Origins - my style. Obviously it needs to be altered for the real game. It is not finished quite yet, I need to do some research on the later dates. I will build up the framework for a game, and I will then need a programmer to tell me if it is doable. This is all I have done so far.......

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#93 warhamster

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Posted 04 August 2003 - 03:59 PM

Here's a compromise... How about the second war happens immediately after the first. But to get to this, you must finish the first war in hard or superhuman. Sort of like a secret cow level, but a a whole secret game instead of just an additional stage. What say? Something like Diablo II's Expansion pack, except you're adding a whole game rather than just a whole act. Did that make any sense?

#94 miceless

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Posted 05 August 2003 - 02:09 AM

I think it would be more fun all at once. Adds to the chaos. Your having enough trouble dealing with the UFOs and then suddenly all these USOs start appearing. :o

And thats some history Dipstick! Wow.
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#95 hArk

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Posted 05 August 2003 - 04:40 AM

I reckon have it in the one story you shoot them down they land in the drink you go and recover it but you find out they brought scuba gear with them so you are forced to fight for it so from then on you need to research in to water tech
Tada an excuse to have underwater combat

The only problem is to have it play able with out over doing it :huh?:

#96 Jesus Escariut

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Posted 05 August 2003 - 11:52 AM

when the first ufo crashes in the ocean it wakes up the underwater buggers :wink:

#97 miceless

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Posted 05 August 2003 - 12:09 PM

That would probably trigger too soon.

You want it to start about one half to two thirds of the way through IMO. That way you are just starting to get sorted when the new aliens arrive.
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#98 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 05 August 2003 - 04:24 PM

That would probably trigger too soon.

You want it to start about one half to two thirds of the way through IMO. That way you are just starting to get sorted when the new aliens arrive.

Excactly!! Great idea Miceless!!!!!!!!

That way, just when you start surpassing the aliens and feeling secure, you have another problem! This could solve the easy late game difficulty problem. Maby we could have the aliens fight eachother? Anyway it is a great idea to have them showing up in the mid-late game.
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#99 miceless

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 12:03 AM

:D Thankyou, thankyou. I am a genius. :LOL:

Yeah, i think it would help later on when things start to get too easy. All these new aliens arrive, you are totally unprepared, and you have to keep them at bay. Meanwhile, you still have to visit Mars. :devillaugh:
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#100 hArk

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 05:38 AM

Hmm I have been wondering how you could implement it
How about lasers on land and under water have the same effect but if you want to do more damage plasma could be more effective on land but less under water and for sonic if you havenít guessed it already more effective under water but less on land.

Well itís an idea to throw in the mix built from a few other ideas
The inspiration came from here to mix it with this idea :beer:

Edited by hArk, 06 August 2003 - 05:41 AM.