Intro Topic

[Podtech115]

Hi.

 

I'm very shy, so I'll get to the point:

 

A nice X-COM fan found my 3D arts of X-COM and told me that I should come here to help. So I'm here. And I want to help, but first, I need to tell you about a man that I hate.... his name is Dave Ellis.

 

Dave Ellis was the game designer of ""x-com:''' Interceptor

 

Dave Ellis said he loved X-COM to a point that he even started calling himself ""x-com Guru"". It is an understatement to say that this title is not earned. All he ever did was add references after references after references. THAT'S ALL HE EVER DID!!! I think there was more references in "x-com": Interceptor then there was in Date Movie! In fact, here, let me quote something from his "x-com: Interceptor Official Strategy Guide:"

 

"The Sectoid taunts are all quotes from Beavis and Butt-Head. Other aliens

taunt you with famous quotes from such TV shows and movies as Star Trek:

The Next Generation (Mutons); Monty Python and the Holy Grail (Psilords);

Red Dwarf (Ethereals); and South Park (Aereons)."

 

I don't know about you, but I don't remember one hollywood director who would stop everything just to put references that no one is going to know or care about in there story like this. Can you imagine if Lord of the Rings, Pirates of the Caribbean, or The Matrix was like this?

 

The worst part is I don't think he likes video games at all. Not one reference he made was to a video game. Not one. It's almost like he came from a alien world that had no games to speak of, and said "I'm here to save the game fans by teaching them the way of the Star Trek and Butt-Head." I don't like being talk down to, as if I was stupid for loving video games above Star Trek.

 

And finally, He's an idiot! Not one of his ideas was any good. Dave Ellis was so bad, that when Enforcer was made it was much better then *anything* that was from Interceptor.

 

IF you want to know more about him, here is some links:

http://home.nc.rr.com/ellis1701/

http://dynamic3.gamespy.com/~thelastoutpos...icle.php?art=57

 

Sorry about that, but I had to make my feelings clear on Dave Ellis. I don't act like this most of the time, becaues I know game makers work very hard to make a game. I don't even hate Jack Thompson or Uwe Boll. I think they're nice guys who work hard and do what they think is right. But the reason I started with this rant is because I want to know what people here think of Ellis before I start coming here.

[Steelion]

Well hokey-dokey, little buddy. No problem letting everyone know how you feel.

 

And no, we don't actually use works like Hokey-dokey. DO WE?!

 

I've never played Interceptor, or Enforcer. I tried Enforcer, and it just didn't work well.

[[NKF]]

Say, haven't I seen this exact same rant against Dave before? Whether or not I have, hate is still a strong word. But it's good to vent and release all that pent up pressure you've been storing up.

 

Obscure pop culture references are rife in many games, whether as a subtle nod, humerous joke or a blatant marketing ploy. They don't necessarily make or break the game. They're obnoxious in some, but can be very clever and even very funny when done right.

 

Look at the Lucas Arts adventure games from the Monkey Island Series, to Sam and Max and Full Throttle. Refences to other Lucas Arts projects everywhere. Star Wars, Indiana Jones the tentacle in Day of the Tentacle. Then look at Fallout 2. That game is a whole series of cliched pop culture references stuck together with some silly role playing time wasting bit.

 

But really, whether or not Mr. Ellis ruined the game is well and truly in the past and has nothing to do with the direction that X-Com is now taking (not that it's going anywhere - but you can rest assured Mr. Ellis has no current say in it). Interceptor was an inconsequential spinoff, but at least is more X-Com in nature than Enforcer ever was or will be (it's a fun game, but could've easily survived without the X-Com label. No, I stand corrected, it would've survived if they'd left out Dr. Able "Daffy" Standard's voice actor).

 

We're rapidly approaching a decade since Interceptor was made. You have to let this old grudge go. Besides, I bet most of us are more interested in your artwork.

 

- NKF

[Steelion]

I was never a fan of Fallout 2. Don't get me wrong, the first one was fantastic-s till is. But 2... It was, in my opinion, way too vague about where you were supposed to go next.

[Guest Azrael]

You're the guy who got banned from www.strategycore.co.uk, aren't you? The one who made about 3-4 "I hate Dave Ellis" topics.

 

I really hope you're not planning on following the same trend here, such threads will all just be merged into this one or plainly deleted.

X-Com games are just that.. games, so no, I don't really hate Dave Ellis for Interceptor or anything else, and I don't think anyone else here does.

/me looks for a reason to keep another "I hate Dave Ellis" thread floating around...

Hi.

 

I'm very shy, so I'll get to the point:

 

A nice X-COM fan found my 3D arts of X-COM and told me that I should come here to help. So I'm here. And I want to help, but first, I need to tell you about a man that I hate.... his name is Dave Ellis.

 

Dave Ellis was the game designer of ""x-com:''' Interceptor

 

Dave Ellis said he loved X-COM to a point that he even started calling himself ""x-com Guru"". It is an understatement to say that this title is not earned. All he ever did was add references after references after references. THAT'S ALL HE EVER DID!!! I think there was more references in "x-com": Interceptor then there was in Date Movie! In fact, here, let me quote something from his "x-com: Interceptor Official Strategy Guide:"

 

"The Sectoid taunts are all quotes from Beavis and Butt-Head. Other aliens

taunt you with famous quotes from such TV shows and movies as Star Trek:

The Next Generation (Mutons); Monty Python and the Holy Grail (Psilords);

Red Dwarf (Ethereals); and South Park (Aereons)."

 

I don't know about you, but I don't remember one hollywood director who would stop everything just to put references that no one is going to know or care about in there story like this. Can you imagine if Lord of the Rings, Pirates of the Caribbean, or The Matrix was like this?

 

The worst part is I don't think he likes video games at all. Not one reference he made was to a video game. Not one. It's almost like he came from a alien world that had no games to speak of, and said "I'm here to save the game fans by teaching them the way of the Star Trek and Butt-Head." I don't like being talk down to, as if I was stupid for loving video games above Star Trek.

 

And finally, He's an idiot! Not one of his ideas was any good. Dave Ellis was so bad, that when Enforcer was made it was much better then *anything* that was from Interceptor.

 

IF you want to know more about him, here is some links:

http://home.nc.rr.com/ellis1701/

http://dynamic3.gamespy.com/~thelastoutpos...icle.php?art=57

 

Sorry about that, but I had to make my feelings clear on Dave Ellis. I don't act like this most of the time, becaues I know game makers work very hard to make a game. I don't even hate Jack Thompson or Uwe Boll. I think they're nice guys who work hard and do what they think is right. But the reason I started with this rant is because I want to know what people here think of Ellis before I start coming here.

[Podtech115]

Azrael:

 

Yes, that was me. That was a very emotional time for me. After being talk down to by 7 X-COM fans (it was about Graphics), I got really hateful and made a mistake at strategycore. I tried to forget that.

 

And For your information, I ask them to cancel my name on strategycore.

 

Steelion:

Thanks for the welcome.

 

NKF:

"Obscure pop culture references are rife in many games, whether as a subtle nod, humerous joke or a blatant marketing ploy. They don't necessarily make or break the game. They're obnoxious in some, but can be very clever and even very funny when done right."

 

I see your point, but I'm going to have to rebut your point by quoting one of my favorite writers: J. Michael Straczynski:

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Question: In WHTMG, Marcus is talking to G'Kar about his friends and says he's had "Damn few of them, and most of them are dead." My instant reaction was "That can't be an allusion to Return to Zork." Can it?

 

J. Michael Straczynski: Y'know, if I were to read this group as an outsider, I'd think that this jms person was incapable of coming up with a single line on his own.

 

NO, it wasn't a Zork reference, for chrissakes. Can we possibly get any more obscure here? I don't even know what this REFERS to. Marcus came from a mining colony. The shadows struck, and killed everyone there. Hence, the line above.

 

There was some goofing around with SF references early on in the show; this got out of hand, and it stopped. I don't sit here, thinking, "Oh, goody, I can make a reference to The Day The Earth Stood Still here," or some other show. I write what is appropriate for the character to say. Period.

 

I'm sorry if I'm a bit cranky in answering this, but gee wiz christ, people, give it a rest and stop looking for references that don't exist. There are only so many permutations in the english language, and something has got to echo somewhere for everyone...but that ain't the source. "Oh, look, he use the word THE in this episode, he must be nodding at "The Ipcriss Files" or "THEM" just leaving off the M to throw us off."

 

Your point of reference is your point of reference, it's nothing to do with me. It's like a Rorscharch test, you see what you're familiar with.

 

As a writer, you work your brains out trying to come up with something, and you try your damndest to make it original, and fresh, and interesting...do you have any idea how infuriating, how maddening, how bottomlin *insulting* it is to have 10,000 people parsing every sentence and saying, "Oh, here, did you take this from that? Is this a reference to this over here?"

 

NO, IT'S NOT.

 

I allowed a little of that in the first season or so, often in scripts by other people, on a couple of occasions by myself, but that's the end of it, because everyone decided that the show was one big easter egg hunt. Fanfic is full of this stuff, which is perhaps why everyone keeps looking for it here.

 

If it's an absolutely blantant, and extremely recognizeable line, like the Tolkein reference in year two's "Geometry," then yeah...but some of this is getting so obscure and ridiculous that it's starting to make me crazy.

 

Can we *please* declare a moratorium on this for a while?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

"We're rapidly approaching a decade since Interceptor was made. You have to let this old grudge go."

 

 

I thought it over, and I'll agree if you promise not to dismiss me like you just did with with the whole Lucas Arts thing. I can see you don't care about You Know Who, but I hate it When you and others go "Hey, who cares about him? Just forgive him". Because it's almost like your telling me "Who cares about him, let him make all the X-COM games he wants!" Maybe you didn't mean it that way, but when you start trying to justify the references by talking about Lucas Arts and Monkey Island.... I know all the defenses people had made for him. ALL. OF. THEM. And it does ***NOT*** help when you are repeating them

 

To put it in another way: I don't hate Uwe Boll, becaues *everybody* knows he is a bad Director. There's no need to hate him because no one is trying to defend him, or justify his works. So why hate him? Dave Ellis on the other hand is thought of as a great man, and anyone who looks at his Interview is going to think much of him.

 

So if you really, really, REALLY want me to stop hating Ellis, then please, stop defending him with Fallout 2 references! I mean, are you implying Fallout 2 is anywhere near as bad as Interceptor? Next thing you'll be telling me is that Michael Bay's Transformers is the best movie of the year.

 

"Besides, I bet most of us are more interested in your artwork."

 

Not until I feel comfortable coming here . If you really want to see them, then send me a e-mail.

[Guest Azrael]

Pod, it's just a game, let it go, you don't like it, we get it, wouldn't you prefer to play the X-Com games you like rather than ranting across forums? I mean, there are people here who actually enjoyed Interceptor (myself being one of them, not the best X-Com game out there but playable, the one you should REALLY be complaining about is Enforcer, a game that doesn't even bother to try to be an X-Com game beyond it's name and alien names) and quite honestly I don't think there is absolutely anyone here as hateful as you towards Dave Ellis to share your views.

 

I am really puzzled as to what can cause you to continue this crusade against a game developer for this long, I'm sure Interceptor can't be the center of your life, so... why?

[Steelion]

Ditto.

[Podtech115]

Ok, I'll stop.

[[NKF]]

Heh. You don't know me enough.

 

It's unfair that you think I'm equating Fallout 2 to rubbish. I'm an absolute fan of Fallout 2 (and I almost immediately try to find some angle to introduce the .223 pistol into a conversation - so don't get me started!), and was just using it as an example of a game that has lots of references in it (that and I've got the disc in front of me - first game that came to mind). Also, just for the record, I really enjoy the Lucas Arts games I mentioned and am still seeking to pick up DOTT somehow. If you meant Dave, then I'm ambivalent about him. But I was there when mouse support for Inteceptor was introduced... but that's got nothing to do with this discussion.

 

Really, nothing is original anymore, and if you look at anything long enough you'll start seeing parallels there even if the author did not intend otherwise. For example, Tolkien is the baseline a lot of people will compare other fantasy material off. Heck, I was reading the Second Chronicles of Thomas Convenent and was picking out all the LOTR parellels left and right, and feeling guilty for it afterwards.

 

But then there are the blatant references that only a tiny portion of your audience may even get. And that's fine. I can't even get most of the latin jokes and some of the literary jabs in Goscinny and Uderzo's Asterix series myself! (Well, I'm limited to the English editions, anyway). Sir Terry Pratchett's Discworld series has plenty of literary and operatic spoofs in them. Of course, I'm not being fair here. This is satire, and taking old ideas and putting a new spin on them isn't quite the same is it? Oh well, I'm just rambling.

 

Speaking of the Transformers movie, here in NZ the amount of cash the movie raked in blew away a number of big name movies like Pirate of the Carribean 3 and Spiderman 3 for several weeks straight. Shrek 3's slowly taking over and Harry Potter's just overtaken it. For a movie everyone set out to hate, that's not bad. I've only read the novel of the movie, and the story is frankly pap as far as TF stories go (Beast Wars is still the best written of the bunch by a light year - and that was crammed full of obscure movie refences. Didn't realise Primal put on glasses for the terminator spoof until I listened to the commentary!). But the new movie is mainly a special effects movie, after all. My wallet is also rather thin now that I've picked up some of the merchandise. Curse you Hasbro! Curse you and your overly cute figurines!

 

I'm just saying, whatever Dave did, it doesn't matter anymore, so don't let it spoil your day and get so upset that make enemies of your friends and friends to be by saying things in the heat of the moment.

 

I personaly blame the bigwigs who could only see dollars and cents that ruined the series by pulling the football away at the last moment - every time. But that's just the nature of their work.

 

Eh, I've had enough. Let's just call it a night, 'kay?

 

- NKF

Edited July 17, 2007 by NKF

[Steelion]

NKF, I may just be really tired now, but none of that made sense.

 

I need sleep.

[[NKF]]

It helps if you look at it this way, whether it's true or otherwise:

 

I've got something I need to do, but I was procrastinating and decided to rattle out some thoughts with wild abandon. I started with a genuine reply, it ended up in a rambing mess, then I attempted to wrap things up in a very miserable manner. This explains why I've never ever been able to finish writing a short story in the last decade.

 

I also thought I'd given up on the accursed three pager replies in web forums. Must be a relapse.

 

- NKF

Edited July 17, 2007 by NKF

[Steelion]

Well, it doesn't make any more sense today than it did last night.

[[NKF]]

Does it have to?

 

There are one or two tongue in cheek obscure references that obfuscate the message too.

 

- NKF

[[dteviot]]

Hi.

 

I'm very shy, so I'll get to the point:

 

A nice X-COM fan found my 3D arts of X-COM and told me that I should come here to help. So I'm here. And I want to help, but first, I need to tell you about a man that I hate.... his name is Dave Ellis.

 

Dave Ellis was the game designer of ""x-com:''' Interceptor

I'll be even more to the point.

I don't care about Dave Ellis.

I want to see your artwork.

Please provide links.

[NRN_R_Sumo1]

Podtech has a deviantart site, although I cant remember it off the top of my head :x

[Podtech115]

NKF:

 

You know, I really like you. Even though we disagree on many things, it's still fun talking with you. To tell you the truth, Azrael's cold reply made me feel a bit unwelcomed. I was thinking of just leaving, before you made your reply. So, I'll stay as long as you want me to. But that doesn't mean I'm going to stop hating DE. It just means I'm going to try to be nicer.

 

Oh, and I hate using those small smiling faces. There's just something about them...

 

The one thing I can't believe is that you actually tried to negate my J. Michael Straczynski Quote! Straczynski was my Ace in the Hole! And you tried to negate it! WOW! JMS's Babylon 5 was one of the bests Space shows out there! What JMS did by himself was more incredible then what a whole group of writers did on Deep Space Nine. I was sure you would have listened to him. I guess not.

 

"I personaly blame the bigwigs who could only see dollars and cents that ruined the series by pulling the football away at the last moment - every time. But that's just the nature of their work."

 

What do you mean "pulling the football away"?

 

 

dteviot:

 

Ok, but only because you ask so nicely. I'll try to upload an image. if I can't I'll just send you the link.

[Podtech115]

Hey ummm... How do you use the upload?

 

Oh, never mind, I'll just send the links.

[Guest Azrael]

I apologise, my intention was merely to avoid another topic-bonanza like in StrategyCore and maybe convince you to just let the man live and enjoy your time here with us

NKF:

 

You know, I really like you. Even though we disagree on many things, it's still fun talking with you. To tell you the truth, Azrael's cold reply made me feel a bit unwelcomed. I was thinking of just leaving, before you made your reply. So, I'll stay as long as you want me to. But that doesn't mean I'm going to stop hating DE. It just means I'm going to try to be nicer.

 

Oh, and I hate using those small smiling faces. There's just something about them...

 

The one thing I can't believe is that you actually tried to negate my J. Michael Straczynski Quote! Straczynski was my Ace in the Hole! And you tried to negate it! WOW! JMS's Babylon 5 was one of the bests Space shows out there! What JMS did by himself was more incredible then what a whole group of writers did on Deep Space Nine. I was sure you would have listened to him. I guess not.

 

"I personaly blame the bigwigs who could only see dollars and cents that ruined the series by pulling the football away at the last moment - every time. But that's just the nature of their work."

 

What do you mean "pulling the football away"?

 

 

dteviot:

 

Ok, but only because you ask so nicely. I'll try to upload an image. if I can't I'll just send you the link.

[NRN_R_Sumo1]

Nah, your just cold hearted <3

[Guest Azrael]

Nah, your just cold hearted

Thanks, I do try, but my intention was as above.

[[dteviot]]

dteviot:

 

Ok, but only because you ask so nicely. I'll try to upload an image. if I can't I'll just send you the link.

Thanks for that:

So that others can enjoy them, here are the links:

http://fc02.deviantart.com/fs13/f/2007/049..._podtech115.jpg

http://fc02.deviantart.com/fs15/f/2007/056..._podtech115.jpg

http://fc02.deviantart.com/fs18/f/2007/124..._podtech115.jpg

http://fc01.deviantart.com/fs16/f/2007/159..._podtech115.jpg

http://fc01.deviantart.com/fs18/f/2007/189..._podtech115.jpg

http://fc02.deviantart.com/fs18/f/2007/189..._podtech115.jpg

 

Podtech115, can I suggest you contact Vaaish, for joining the art team?

Recruiting Process

[[NKF]]

I've got this silly life philosphy that I've been trying out recently. It's "It's never as bad as it seems.". Haven't a clue if it's working... (I hate smilies too - but people keep misreading into my sentences to the point where I have to sprinkle them in or else the light heartedness is lost.)

 

"I personaly blame the bigwigs who could only see dollars and cents that ruined the series by pulling the football away at the last moment - every time. But that's just the nature of their work."

 

What do you mean "pulling the football away"?

 

It's a Peanuts reference. It's where Lucy convinces Charlie Brown to kick a football, and every time he's just about to kick, she pulls the football away and Charlie Brown ends up flipping onto his back. This happened every time and not once did he ever get to kick the ball. Not even till the end of the comic strip.

 

It's what I see happened to the X-Com games. Every single time we're given a glimmer of hope, it's taken away at the last moment. Granted, it only really happened with Alliance then Genesis.

 

edit:

 

Oh, right, that's what I was going to say. I'm not familiar with JMS - and my limited knowledge of Babylon 5 is restricted to only a few episodes of probably season 1. I liked what I saw, but that's as far as it went.

 

I did not consciously attempt to negate the comments. In fact I was agreeing when I said that there's nothing original anymore. Even if you try your hardest to be original, the concept would probably be already present somewhere else in one shape or form, whether you like it or not. For example, for every story idea I've come up with in brainstorming sessions over the years, I suddenly notice the idea already in use in some other person's work. Makes you worry that if you continue with it, you'll be outed as a plagarist or you're trying to jump on the bandwagon and take advantage of the momentum of someone else's work. It has the effect of stifling creativity a bit.

 

Also, it's good that we don't agree with each other entirely. Would be a rather dull world to live in if we were all the same.

 

I only say this for myself but if you want to stick around, feel free. I've always always felt the general X-com communities to be a nice and a friendly enough bunch of people. There have been some good testimonies that we can brag about too. Well, that's true, except towards hit-and-run-unsolicited-advertisings-robots. We bash them to a pulp of nothingness with our mighty moderator sticks.

 

- NKF

Edited July 19, 2007 by NKF

[kafros]

Podtech, I still don't understand why you hate that guy... (I don't even recall his little name ... Aw dave sorry xD)

 

Do you have same strange passion for the X-Com Interceptor game?

If yes, then u probably shouldn't. Letting anything in this life overtake you is generally a bad strategy (no use to talk about it now and here)

If not, then why would you give a f**k, as the old phrase says? He made a game, he putted in it whatever he wanted, he marketed it, and he earned his money. You like it, play it. You don't like it, don't play it.

 

And why would you feel "unwelcomed"? Isn't it awkward when someone joins a fan-site and just starts ranting and spamming rant-threads around? That's what Azrael told you, not to let it overtake you and cause problems.

 

Otherwise, it's just fine to start a conversation and exchange points, or even make a rant page somewhere and give us the link and ask people to comment, or whatever...

 

Last but not least, caring about your ranting and caring about your artwork are totally different things

 

Just 2 cents, and please don't get offended

Edited July 19, 2007 by kafros

[Podtech115]

OK kafros! You ask for it! (Hee, Hee, Hee)

But before I start, I want you to know that nothing here is supposed to be offensive to you or any X-COM fans. Most of this reply is supposed to be whimsical. And I'm saying that because I didn't want to use smilies for this one.

 

Once again, I will tell my sorrowful story, of the evil that is Dave Ellis...

 

But I'm warning you, the most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

 

To start:

After reading an auspicious Interview or two:

http://dynamic3.gamespy.com/~thelastoutpos...icle.php?art=57

http://thelastoutpost.classicgaming.gamesp...icle.php?art=58

http://thelastoutpost.classicgaming.gamesp...icle.php?art=59

 

From that day, I was awed. To me this man, this Dave Ellis was the new X-COM LORD!

After that, I tried using my new 3D modeler to bring his dream game to life.

I started with Ben Cloward's arts, which I found, and tried copying a "Alien Dreadnought".

Did anyone else saw Ben Cloward's X-COM art?

Anyways, I lived in endless screaming pain for months on end trying to get that modele looking just right.

And it didn't help I had an old 1999 PC either.

But one day, I wanted to get Dave Ellis's Interceptor Official Strategy Guide to see if there was something to help me.

Guess what?

I.... Found.... This:

http://fc04.deviantart.com/fs13/f/2007/022..._podtech115.jpg

 

From that, I said: "MY EYES! MY EYES! It's like I just saw a Joel Schumacher movie marathon!!! AAAAARRRGH!!! PINK GORILLA SUITS!!!! BAT-NIPPLES EVERYWHERE!!!!!!"

 

And from that, I totally understand that Ellis didn't care at all.

So I've been working my arms off, for the "floating fat man", for nothing!

This guy didn't even care enough to make his stupid cartoon plot make any sense.

Instead, this "man" did nothing but look at his Trek porn, and put anything he thought was "funny" into the game.

This guy didn't even treat it like a job, it was just a party to him.

Do you have *any* idea of how embarrassing it was for me?

No, of course not. You didn't work your fingers worn down to the nub for months trying to make a ship look just right! (Ok, ok, it wasn't THAT bad, but still....)

And the more I looked into it, the worst the story of Dave Ellis got:

 

Exhibit A: End Credits. If you haven't seen it before, then here, look at the horror of how low Dave Ellis goes:

http://fc04.deviantart.com/fs15/f/2007/043..._podtech115.jpg

Oh God! It's like watching a one-star YouTube video!

 

Exhibit B: The, oh Lord, "Doomsday weapon." Oh, Geez! OHH, Geeeeeeeeeeeeez!!! Where to start? It's so goofy and stupid that it must have been made as a joke! It even has googly eyes on it! And if you think about it, the thing doesn't even make any sense. Like Why would they make something that big to kill *one* planet?!? And why can't they make more then one? And why is it in a black hole? And etc. etc. Clearly, Ellis just wanted to rip-off The Death-Star. Beyond that, there's no reason why something this goofy should be in the game.

 

 

"Do you have same strange passion for the ""x-com"" Interceptor game?

If yes, then u probably shouldn't. Letting anything in this life overtake you is generally a bad strategy (no use to talk about it now and here)

If not, then why would you give a f**k, as the old phrase says? He made a game, he putted in it whatever he wanted, he marketed it, and he earned his money. You like it, play it. You don't like it, don't play it."

 

 

I don't know how to answer that. So I'll answer that question by saying this:

 

Your ideas for live and let live really sound nice, but why don't you tell that to the Star Wars fans or Batman fans? I don't know what's wrong with them, but the Wars fans are obsessed with George Lucas bashing, and has nothing but murderest rage for everything that was created in the Star Wars prequels. They don't just dislike Jar Jar Binks, but everything else, including: midi-chlorians, Jake Lloyd, Natalie Portman's & Hayden Christensen's acting, Watto as an anti-Semitic stereotype, Trade Federation speaking with Asian accents, over-uses of CGI, Troops as CGI, the Special Editions, slliy Whimsical creatures, and so on and so on....

 

And you know what I think of all this George Lucas bashing?.... BS! All of it! But the way the hate for the prequels has become kind of "universally true" sickens me. Even South Park [!!] and The Simpsons [!!!!] had made whole episodes criticizing Lucas works! WHAT THE HECK!!! Since when did they care about summer movies? Why didn't they criticize Independence Day, 1998's Godzilla, The Day After Tomorrow, Pearl Harbor, or Armageddon? What makes them so special? Let me get this idea straight: I'm a nerd when I criticize normal movies, but when it comes to Star Wars....

 

What I'm trying to say to you, kafros, is Wars fans seem to have the right to pass judgment on poor George on some of the smallest, stupidest things, and if those philosophers and Wars-lovers have found that kind of nerve.... Well I think I have more rights to attack Dave Ellis then *any* of those so called "Star Wars fans."

 

And to give you an idea of how low those "Star Wars fans" can go, just open your ears to this:

(WARNING: the link below links to a mp3 that contains R-Rated subjects, and may offend some. Viewer discretion is advised)

http://www.7mpictures.com/inside/starwars1_commentary.htm

The Commentary Guys are nothing more then putrid excretions on the face of the Earth! I'm sure they want to sound like the other guys from MST3K, but they come off as bigots. All they ever do is complain and insult *everything* that was in The Phantom Menace. They even contradict themselves just to add another quick painful stab to poor George Lucas. And they repeat themselves too many times. I couldn't listen to it any more.

 

And I'm not some nerd, who only thinks of X-COM and games, I go through books too. I have read Frank Herbert (Dune), Howard Phillips Lovecraft (Cthulhu), H. G. Wells (Time Machine), and even L. Frank Baum (Wizard of Oz). I'm even going through the Old Testament, right now I'm at Numbers. And after reading them all, I can safely say that Ellis is a total idiot. There is nothing in Interceptor that even comes near to the same level of quality as any of those books. Even in a silly 100 year old book like The First Men in the Moon, there is ideas in that book that are new, even today.

 

But in Interceptor... The only thing there is, is the tired old Death-Star plot. Nothing more. Nothing to work with. Sure, there is the 'Earth needs resources' thing, but it is made out to be such an afterthought, that If it was taken out of the game, it wouldn't mean *anything* to the story.

 

 

Ah Geez! I used up more time on this reply then I wanted to. I wanted to ask NKF about the .223! Well kafros, I hope you were enlightened, and perhaps now you understand me a bit better. I think I'll do something else now.

 

 

By-the-bye, is kafros a boys or girls name?

[[NKF]]

The .223 eh? Yes. Where to start?

 

Despite having a laughable magazine capacity, it's a brilliant handgun to pick up in Fallout 1 and 2. A good all-rounder that is worth many times its weight in bottlecaps/gold to obtain (in Fallout 2, well worth risking a flamer to get one early - or risking Vault 15 for one, combat armor and 200 rounds). Not as overkill as a big gun/energy weapon or a F2 gauss rifle, but still very formidable when set up with all the right perks and a high luck level. It has quite the firing range too, allowing it to be an ideal sneak sniping weapon if you haven't yet picked up the .223 sniper rifle. The damage is impressive, both aimed and unaimed. Unarmoured raiders can't stand too many hits, and even a few well aimed hits to the eyes will deal with Enclave troopers. Super Mutants (in Fallout 1 in particular) don't last too long against it. Fares all right when power levelling against tough enemies like the deathclaws, aliens and the floater/centaur packs.

 

If you ever decide to play a jinxed solo gunman, it'll be quite a mainstay weapon as its small ammo capacity helps reduce the extent of the damage caused by ammo blowing up on critical failures.

 

Oh, who am I trying to convince? The whole .223 weapon range is impressive. I just end up using the damned thing in practically every character build whether it's designed for it or otherwise.

 

There you go. A quick praise gushy spiel about the Fallout .223 pistol. I wanted to elabortate further, but I'd end up typing all night.

 

- NKF

Edited July 24, 2007 by NKF

[Sorrow]

Podtech115 -> I just read your history of what happened to X-Com franchise, and I find it pretty disturbing.

I was a fan of Gollop brothers games since I played Lasers Squad on C64. I like Ufo (and TFtD) and X-Com: Apocalypse. I've read about Interceptor but I didn't buy it, because space sims aren't my priority. I've read about Enforcer, but I wasn't interested in it. I didn't know what happened to X-Com franchise, because I was a teenager without access to internet when they came out.

Now I see that companies tend to kill off classical, tabletop miniature gaming style games like X-Com and Fallout and turn them into spin-offs that are made by incompetent people with a weird sense of humour.

 

We had a very similar history with Chuck Cuevas and Fallout: PoS (which ironically is sometimes called Fallout: Enforcer) and now we have with Fallout 3 (I think I'll start calling it Fallout: Interceptor ).

I don't recall seeing such vulgar references ('That's for abducting Cartman!' - ?) in Ufo or Apocalypse.

 

BTW.

When I hear the sentence "Let's take the franchise in another direction" I reach for my Browning!

Edited July 24, 2007 by Sorrow

[NRN_R_Sumo1]

And you know what I think of all this George Lucas bashing?.... BS! All of it! But the way the hate for the prequels has become kind of "universally true" sickens me. Even South Park [!!] and The Simpsons [!!!!] had made whole episodes criticizing Lucas works! WHAT THE HECK!!! Since when did they care about summer movies? Why didn't they criticize Independence Day, 1998's Godzilla, The Day After Tomorrow, Pearl Harbor, or Armageddon? What makes them so special? Let me get this idea straight: I'm a nerd when I criticize normal movies, but when it comes to Star Wars....

Actually Pod, most of those movies have had spoofs all throughout the Simpons and South Park.

 

If I do recall, The Day After tommorrow south park episode has a rather hilarious weather chalk board involving a peanuts

Also, Pod, there are Many people working on both of those shows.

You only need One to come up with an episode about George Lucas.

Personally, I liked episode 1, didnt like 2, and but 3 was alright.

Quigon is cool shiz ^^'

 

Whenever a famous person makes a mistake, the media extorts these things, The Simpsons and South Park are indeed Media's, to the relaxed public.

[Sorrow]

Your ideas for live and let live really sound nice, but why don't you tell that to the Star Wars fans or Batman fans? I don't know what's wrong with them, but the Wars fans are obsessed with George Lucas bashing, and has nothing but murderest rage for everything that was created in the Star Wars prequels. They don't just dislike Jar Jar Binks, but everything else, including: midi-chlorians, Jake Lloyd, Natalie Portman's & Hayden Christensen's acting, Watto as an anti-Semitic stereotype, Trade Federation speaking with Asian accents, over-uses of CGI, Troops as CGI, the Special Editions, slliy Whimsical creatures, and so on and so on....

 

And you know what I think of all this George Lucas bashing?.... BS! All of it! But the way the hate for the prequels has become kind of "universally true" sickens me.

Err...

I've read some reviews by real movie critics and they said that acting was very poor. On the other hand Natalie Portman was pretty ...

[Steelion]

The .223 eh? Yes. Where to start?

 

Despite having a laughable magazine capacity, it's a brilliant handgun to pick up in Fallout 1 and 2. A good all-rounder that is worth many times its weight in bottlecaps/gold to obtain (in Fallout 2, well worth risking a flamer to get one early - or risking Vault 15 for one, combat armor and 200 rounds). Not as overkill as a big gun/energy weapon or a F2 gauss rifle, but still very formidable when set up with all the right perks and a high luck level. It has quite the firing range too, allowing it to be an ideal sneak sniping weapon if you haven't yet picked up the .223 sniper rifle. The damage is impressive, both aimed and unaimed. Unarmoured raiders can't stand too many hits, and even a few well aimed hits to the eyes will deal with Enclave troopers. Super Mutants (in Fallout 1 in particular) don't last too long against it. Fares all right when power levelling against tough enemies like the deathclaws, aliens and the floater/centaur packs.

 

If you ever decide to play a jinxed solo gunman, it'll be quite a mainstay weapon as its small ammo capacity helps reduce the extent of the damage caused by ammo blowing up on critical failures.

 

Oh, who am I trying to convince? The whole .223 weapon range is impressive. I just end up using the damned thing in practically every character build whether it's designed for it or otherwise.

 

There you go. A quick praise gushy spiel about the Fallout .223 pistol. I wanted to elabortate further, but I'd end up typing all night.

 

- NKF

 

 

Well, I've never played 2 to the point of getting any decent guns, and my favorite gun in 1 was the plasma rifle- fully modded I could shoot about 5 or 6 shots with that beast a turn.

 

And I think we're derailing the thread.

[NRN_R_Sumo1]

Oh you probably are. Oh well ^^'..

Us 3 seem to have a knack for it I suppose D:

[Steelion]

well, NKF is generally pretty good about it. It's just the two of us.

[[NKF]]

I was responding to a very brief comment, so it's okay! However, you're right, it is drifting off topic. But topics change and mutate anyway on their own. I have no problems with this most of the time, as one thing leads on to another. Some of really wild branch offs (like mine, to name an example) don't really last all that long.

 

You should easily get the .223 well before getting the plasma rifle. In Fallout it's easy to miss since there's only a grand total of 1 in the game, but in Fallout 2, if you attempt to stick to the story line, it should be easy enough to pick up.

 

- NKF

[Guest Azrael]

http://fc04.deviantart.com/fs13/f/2007/022..._podtech115.jpg

http://fc04.deviantart.com/fs15/f/2007/043..._podtech115.jpg

Thanks for the links, you may hate me too cause I loved those fun facts... where did you get them from? did you scan your own magazine or maybe found them online?

 

And you know what I think of all this George Lucas bashing?.... BS! All of it! But the way the hate for the prequels has become kind of "universally true" sickens me. Even South Park [!!] and The Simpsons [!!!!] had made whole episodes criticizing Lucas works! WHAT THE HECK!!! Since when did they care about summer movies? Why didn't they criticize Independence Day, 1998's Godzilla, The Day After Tomorrow, Pearl Harbor, or Armageddon? What makes them so special? Let me get this idea straight: I'm a nerd when I criticize normal movies, but when it comes to Star Wars....

Well, it's different, there's a stronger attachment to an almost 'mythical' movie like a Star Wars movie, and people developed HUGE expectations for the new ones. Being fans for, I don't know, 30 years? , makes them feel the right to critisise, not to mention everyone has the right to critisise. ID was not so critisised (I don't even know how much it was) because it's neither a sequel nor a prequel and nobody had any expectations for it, it was just a movie of the bunch, nice overall sci fic movie with a dangerous excess of pseudo patriotism but it's ok.

 

And for the record, the new movies do suck they just make no sense.

 

By-the-bye, is kafros a boys or girls name?

Depends on the situation, birth certificate says he's male, AFAIK, name I suppose is male as well.

[Steelion]

I remember getting the .223 pistol, but I also remember ditching it in favor of the .223 hunting rifle. Unless I completely forget the weapons and their corresponding ammunition. Once I get the rifle, I use it almost exclusively until I can get me a plasma rifle.

 

You get the .223 pistol from some guy who says he modified it from a regular pistol, right? If yes, I remember that gun, and in my opinion, it sucked. I got the hunting rifle well before that, and it beat out the pistol in practically every way.

 

 

Perhaps we need to move this discussion elsewhere. There are currently 2 different conversations going on, completely independent of one another.

 

EDIT- upon checking up on a weapon stat list online, I apparently missed something. It does more damage than the rifle? Shorter range though. Peculiar.

Edited July 25, 2007 by Steelion

[[dteviot]]

But one day, I wanted to get Dave Ellis's Interceptor Official Strategy Guide to see if there was something to help me.

Guess what?

I.... Found.... This:

http://fc04.deviantart.com/fs13/f/2007/022..._podtech115.jpg

 

From that, I said: "MY EYES! MY EYES! It's like I just saw a Joel Schumacher movie marathon!!! AAAAARRRGH!!! PINK GORILLA SUITS!!!! BAT-NIPPLES EVERYWHERE!!!!!!"

You do realise that it's possible Dave Ellis had very little to do with those in-jokes, and he's just documenting them here so that you can enjoy them.

And it's quite common for programmers to insert private jokes into code they write.

For example, a some years ago, I put in an error message of "Divide by Banana error, reinstall universe and reboot" (it comes from Pratchett's diskworld novels) for an error that could never occur. Imagine my surprise when I got a call from a customer demanding to know what it meant. (Turned out the customer had dumped the program's text table.)

 

In another case, there was an entire chapter of the (on line) manual devoted to about 10 of the company taking part in a flugtag. (Building an aircraft.)

[Sorrow]

Err...

The problem is that from what he wrote, the game actually features allied pilots remarks, like 'That's for abducting Cartman!'.

Previous games were rather grim and serious and I haven't seen such immature jokes in Ufo, TftD or Apocalypse.

[Guest Azrael]

Aircraft pilots behave differently from ground troopers (or at least the stereotypical pilots and troopers). Take a look at Wing Commander V, (and quite possibly the others), they have these sort of funny taunts and jokes on each other all the time, I think that's what the Interceptor guys tried to make with the x-com pilots, I don't see the big deal.

[[NKF]]

I've created a new thread for the Fallout discussion under The Patio\Special Interest Forum.

 

Steelion, will post my reply in the new thread. Any further discussion on Fallout in particular to be diverted that way.

 

Thanks and carry on folks.

 

- NKF

[kafros]

I read your post Podtech

 

Well, you just described what I thought was going on...

 

I can see that you really cared about the X-Com universe and wanted a game that was worked on seriously, with a deep plot underlying. I totally agree! Practically everyone has things that enjoy. I loved UFO:EU's gameplay when I was a small boy, around 7 or 9 if I recall, although I didn't understand much. So simple, but still so deep, so interesting. When I re-played it at 16, I couldn't get enough of the Ufopaedia entries!

Same thing with Star Control 2, damn I still think that game never ends! It's so huge, so... full of information!

 

Or for example the Dune universe, so... complete and interesting!

 

BUT STILL, why should you feel that bad anyway? Or the fans you described (which I really hate, mindless zombies...)? They wasted your dream, well it was just a project that they would earn money with. Can you blame them?!

 

So, why don't you start such a project? And do it as YOU envision it best!

 

Edit: Actually, what are we doing on Xenocide? We all love the original games, we see that none will take care of the X-Com universe nowadays, we want to improve our skills on various subjects, so we all work on making a new, interesting and free game! In addition, that's what the guys at UFO2K also do! No1 took care of the multiplayer part, so THEY DO! They don't just rant about the lack of multiplayer support in the original games, and that was my point before

 

You don't let things like that spoil your life, you just take action and change things if you really want to! Otherwise, you do something else :S. I get your point, I think you get mine, and there is common ground. So, I think everything is cool

 

 

 

Btw, kafros is the greeklish version of a greek noun, κάφρος, which refers to males . I won't describe the meaning now, but it isn't anything bad, just another noun

Edited July 26, 2007 by kafros

[NRN_R_Sumo1]

*cough*

Testicals.