Geoscape

[Deimos]

There is one major problem with the .psd format and that is that it is a propriatary format.  Because of this The Gimp can load .psd but not save them.  Adobe is not a nice company and was responsible for sending someone from another country to jail when they visited the US because they violated the DMCA even though in their country reverse engineering was legal.  Adobe has also done other dirty little things like make killustrator change their name because it had illustrator in it even though that is a generic name.  Eitherway I think in the game directory things will be saved in .png format.  anyway you guys should have CVS access on sourceforge.  think you probably can store it there.  maybe we can create another module for storage for you guys there.  All that needs to be shown on this forum is the occasional jpeg of what's going on for people to comment. I think Fatal, You and Maverik should all be on the core art team.

I read about Jury wassname, but I don't think this is the pace to discuss the semantics of it

 

The reason I said to use psd is becasue it's an industry standard, strange the the gimp doesn't support saving them. Is there a plugin?

 

Also it's the best for working with layers, I find that other formats don't support layers as well.

 

The final graphics being saved as .png isn't a problem as each item can be saved as it's own file when we've finished the design.

[Fatal_Error]

I read about Jury wassname, but I don't think this is the pace to discuss the semantics of it

 

The reason I said to use psd is becasue it's an industry standard, strange the the gimp doesn't support saving them. Is there a plugin?

 

Also it's the best for working with layers, I find that other formats don't support layers as well.

 

The final graphics  being saved as .png isn't a problem as each item can be saved as it's own file when we've finished the design.

ok now i just couldnt resist ...fireworks supports layers just as well imo even better coz it doesnt use separate layer for each and every path/text/bitmap though keeping similar functionality with mo user friendly enviroment well thats my humble opinion at least so dont bash my head wide open for it ok?

[Guest stewart]

If It is the stuff about the nebulas I complained about it not being realistic since we're in Sol.

That's to bad because the "realistic" version doesn't look as good or have the depth to them. And now abstract hasn't been around for two weeks.

[gangsta]

dunno I think if you put nebulas in the background you might as well put the deathstar there too. That just my opinion.

[Guest stewart]

No we can have just the nebulas, the orginal did afterall. Those shots are clearly better looking too. There's nothing wrong in this case with sacrificing "realism" for astetics, in fact it's adviseable.

[gangsta]

I didn't notice the ones in the original maybe they didn't stand out but a discussion/vote about this could be called monday. *G*

[Fatal_Error]

I didn't notice the ones in the original maybe they didn't stand out but a discussion/vote about this could be called monday. *G*

how about we stick to reality and have constallations in the background instead ...like dynamic ones

 

and i really hope this systems asks for confirmation if i accidentally press delete button coz ive been THIS close several times already ... i just can keep up with gangsta

[Maverick]

I'm starting a new thread for art centralization, we can discuss formats, etc there.

 

nevermind, i was beat to it...

[gangsta]

I didn't notice the ones in the original maybe they didn't stand out but a discussion/vote about this could be called monday. *G*

how about we stick to reality and have constallations in the background instead ...like dynamic ones

 

and i really hope this systems asks for confirmation if i accidentally press delete button coz ive been THIS close several times already ... i just can keep up with gangsta

well I vote too we keep em out cause even though I like sci-fi stuff I also like a certain level of realism. But I don't mind this as an eventual option to be added. but I don't speak for everybody. obviously it is half and half about who wants nebulas and who doesn't

[Deimos]

well I vote too we keep em out cause even though I like sci-fi stuff I also like a certain level of realism.  But I don't mind this as an eventual option to be added.  but I don't speak for everybody.  obviously it is half and half about who wants nebulas and who doesn't

What I was thinking was a mixture between the two. Constellations mapped in the background could be done in 3d (with specular lighting?) so we can have twinkling stars. Ok technically speaking they wouldn't twinkle from the camera's point of view as its in space, but it'd look good. So all that's needed for the actual background would be a spacecloud texture full of the kind of colours found in nebulae, with the majority in black of course.

[gangsta]

I suggested the constilation thing before and RK pointed out that it would be better to have a texture of the constilation that we can rotate around the globe. true that..

[LordT]

I'd go for a mix of the two.

 

Deimos: what os was that program made for? cant get it to run...

[Deimos]

I'd go for a mix of the two.

 

Deimos: what os was that program made for? cant get it to run...

Sorry it was made on windows 98

[LordT]

then my 2k SHOULD work...

[Deimos]

I've just mailed him, to come into the thread and sort it out

[Fatal_Error]

argh DEIMOS!! reupload the file its corrupt ...oh hey i can upload it

 

edit: darn this appearss to be corrupt too now

Xenocracy.exe

[Jackal]

Hi all

 

Im the New guy who gave deimos the simple test prog of the menus, just to see what they would look like as he was on about seeing something visual as to how they might work or look. By the way they are only 2D not 3D images its just a simple prog to show how the menus look.

 

As for what im good at ive done some work in programing with Visual basic (Yuck) and C++ and i have worked with some 3d redering packages, however i am far from being an expert at any of them and it has been some time since ive done anything like this so im quite rusty

 

The compiled exe that Deimos posted should work on any windows platform to my knowledge. Im supprised that its failed to run on some.

 

Anyway ive recompiled it a couple of diffrent ways see if these work for you.

 

If they dont work let me know and ill try redo from scratch a diffrent way. :freak:

 

Also it would be helpfull to know exactle what happens, and if windows reports any error or reason as to why it cant run the prog.

 

Anyho here is the first file

Xenocracy_Std_Compile.exe

[Jackal]

heres the second compile try this if the first wont work this should but no guarantees

Xenocracy_3.zip

[Deimos]

Hi all

 

Im the New guy who gave deimos the simple test prog of the menus,

Or instead of the new guy, my brother the new guy

[Fatal_Error]

hi and just to make things clear the prog worked even on XP but the uploaded file was not complete for some odd reason though ive seen it now and i havent tryed to download these others.

 

nice work anyway, but say could u do similar stuff (2d images) in full screen mode? just a question

[Jackal]

yeah ive just tryed the downloads myself, for some reason they get corrupted when they are uploaded, dont know why, admins any clues?

 

Anyway for those who want to have a look at it and cant get the download to work email me and ill send via email.

 

oh And fatal yeah there is a way to make it auto change the resolution ive done that in the newest one just a little bit more code, didnt bother with the first one cus i just wanted to get it to deimos so he could have a look.

 

if you want it ill email to u when ive changed a few things!

[Deimos]

Ok time for the new update. To answer some questions over the design and the reason for the base view the way it is now.

 

The base menu popout wa because I was playing the other night and found I was constantly switching screens. Hence the popout menu.

 

I might have missed out in my earlier post that I still think there should be a seperate baseview, inface I strongly recommend it so we can have something really visually impressive.

 

The baseview on the geoscape screen is to be a quickview reference and doesn't need to ultra high detail. To actually build or destroy something in the base I was thinking that the base screen should be used as there should be more info available on that screen.

 

Same goes for the multi player where a quick response time is going to be more important. But for single player it's there for 'the cool factor' and so that the player doesn't have to constantly switch screens to buy/sell and everything else.

 

I hope I'm not talking nonsense. When I've got all the geoscape menu options and screens drawn up I'll get Jackal to create another animation with the rollouts so that everybody can see what my vision should end up looking like. Phew

[LordT]

yeah ive just tryed the downloads myself, for some reason they get corrupted when they are uploaded, dont know why, admins any clues?

the .zip works fine.

[gangsta]

btw just wondering if we can have concept art with the base window as I suggested. Currious of how it would look like.. also think you can reduce the size of the widgets on the windows by a little and I think it would look better.

[Deimos]

btw just wondering if we can have concept art with the base window as I suggested.  Currious of how it would look like.. also think you can reduce the size of the widgets on the windows by a little and I think it would look better.

Yeah I'll post one tomorrow.

[[[Micah]]]

As for where to store the files which currently stack in at about 3-4mb a piece, I'm not sure but I agree wholeheartedly that it should be centralised so everyone who wants to access it can. Can anyone suggest a place? I don't know whether Micah wants or could handle the traffic on the site.

Within the next three days, I 'should' have the site operating on a new server that will have 400mb free space (after this site takes its space) I also have another server with 100mb free and a good amount of bandwidth available. The problem with using free sites is that the bandwidth is so limited, whereas I pay for mine. I'll let you guys know when the new server is available in the Moderator Forum and I would be happy to give each of you ftp accounts to upload the images.

[Deimos]

As for where to store the files which currently stack in at about 3-4mb a piece, I'm not sure but I agree wholeheartedly that it should be centralised so everyone who wants to access it can. Can anyone suggest a place? I don't know whether Micah wants or could handle the traffic on the site.

Within the next three days, I 'should' have the site operating on a new server that will have 400mb free space (after this site takes its space) I also have another server with 100mb free and a good amount of bandwidth available. The problem with using free sites is that the bandwidth is so limited, whereas I pay for mine. I'll let you guys know when the new server is available in the Moderator Forum and I would be happy to give each of you ftp accounts to upload the images.

Three cheers for Micah. Superstar and nice guy to boot I think that would be a good option as it would leave sourceforge for the programmers and lessen the chances of any accidental deletions as I'm not a 100% sure how sourceforge works and haven't had time to read up on it.

[Deimos]

For Gangsta. Base in a window. Using your template as a guide.

 

Not sure what you meant by widgets. A widget over here is something in a beercan to get the taste of draught beer out of a can.

 

If you mean as I'm thinking reducing the size of the sidebar, that would mean having to adjust all the button widths in the rest of the UI to match and then it wouldn't look uniform.

Which would mean a complete redesign of the UI and I'm sure you don't want that after we've made so much progess.

 

I'm sure with all the buttons a standard width as well it'd be easier on the programming team to have a standard width and height to work to. See I'm not just thinking about it looking cool, I'm taking into consideration that someone has to actually code the pics into the game.

 

Also please take into account that the base menu (on the right side of the base) will either pop out or roll out and won't be present all the time.

 

Finally my opinion on this is that it looks crap and we should stick with either the base on the menu popout, my favourite from a ease of implementation as it's basically a just another menu (like Jackal showed) or;

 

The other post that has the menu popout and the globe rotating to your base, the view of the base zooming out with the vector lines.

I'm trying to think of a prog that zooms out to a window but I can't. So I'll try to explain. Once you click on the exsisting bases button the menu rolls out. When you click on one of the green micro base icons, the earth rotates to show the blue square dot that is your base.

This dot zooms out toward the screen getting larger, leaving vector trails behind it to show where it has come from. Once at full size the picture of your base shows. I hope I've got what I mean across.

[red knight]

For Gangsta. Base in a window. Using your template as a guide.

 

Not sure what you meant by widgets.  A widget over here is something in a beercan to get the taste of draught beer out of a can.

 

If you mean as I'm thinking reducing the size of the sidebar, that would mean having to adjust all the button widths in the rest of the UI to match and then it wouldn't look uniform.

Which would mean a complete redesign of the UI and I'm sure you don't want that after we've made so much progess.

 

I'm sure with all the buttons a standard width as well it'd be easier on the programming team to have a standard width and height to work to. See I'm not just thinking about it looking cool, I'm taking into consideration that someone has to actually code the pics into the game.

 

Also please take into account that the base menu (on the right side of the base) will either pop out or roll out and won't be present all the time.

 

Finally my opinion on this is that it looks crap and we should stick with either the base on the menu popout, my favourite from a ease of implementation as it's basically a just another menu (like Jackal showed) or;

 

The other post that has the menu popout and the globe rotating to your base, the view of the base zooming out with the vector lines.

I'm trying to think of a prog that zooms out to a window but I can't. So I'll try to explain. Once you click on the exsisting bases button the menu rolls out. When you click on one of the green micro base icons, the earth rotates to show the blue square dot that is your base.

This dot zooms out toward the screen getting larger, leaving vector trails behind it to show where it has come from. Once at full size the picture of your base shows. I hope I've got what I mean across.

I definitly dont like the menus floating around with the geoscape looked between the buttons is just plain distracting and i prefer a detailed view of the base instead a small one... but thats just me.

 

Greetings

Red Knight

[LordT]

The old one's better...

[gangsta]

I think that the base window should have a fullscreen mode and a window mode. In the fullscreen mode it is what you expect to see from x-com 1. We could use the same panel as the geoscope use and just flip the buttons to display new options. As for the window mode I'd rather see a popup menu when you right click the window with the mouse. for 1 button mice what deimos did could be the default.

[[[Micah]]]

I would also prefer the full-screen, detailed base screen, but doing both wouldn't be that much harder and would be a nice option. Again, I don't like to idea of changing the game much from the original, but the ability to be able to glance at a miniature base view while keeping an eye on the geoscape would be a nice option. How about some concept screens of the base view?

[red knight]

In GUI design redundancy is one of the most criticised things... IMHO having two ways to manage the base (not quick glance) is redundacy.

 

Greetings

Red Knight

[Deimos]

I would also prefer the full-screen, detailed base screen, but doing both wouldn't be that much harder and would be a nice option. Again, I don't like to idea of changing the game much from the original, but the ability to be able to glance at a miniature base view while keeping an eye on the geoscape would be a nice option. How about some concept screens of the base view?

There is going to be a seperate base screen. ala the original game.

 

The pic I've shown so far is just the Quickview option so the player will have the choice of whether they want to open a seperate screen.

 

The prog that Jackal sent is a rough visual of what it's going to look like. IIRC he's posting an updated version soon that shows in much better detail how it should work.

 

We haven't really discussed the base screen yet, though Fatal Error is working on it as we speak and it's going to be something special.

[Fatal_Error]

... and it's going to be something special.

*blushes*

[Deimos]

In GUI design redundancy is one of the most criticised things... IMHO having two ways to manage the base (not quick glance) is redundacy.

 

Greetings

Red Knight

Is that redundancy as in a good thing or a bad thing, you don't make it clear in your post?

[red knight]

In GUI design redundancy is one of the most criticised things... IMHO having two ways to manage the base (not quick glance) is redundacy.

 

Greetings

Red Knight

Is that redundancy as in a good thing or a bad thing, you don't make it clear in your post?

Completly bad, cause it gives you diferent ways to do the same... this holds true to every user interface... not the same for scientific visualization and other area where it is useful to add redundancy in color, contrast or lighting to enfatize something...

 

Greetings

Red Knight

[Deimos]

In GUI design redundancy is one of the most criticised things... IMHO having two ways to manage the base (not quick glance) is redundacy.

 

Greetings

Red Knight

Is that redundancy as in a good thing or a bad thing, you don't make it clear in your post?

Completly bad, cause it gives you diferent ways to do the same... this holds true to every user interface... not the same for scientific visualization and other area where it is useful to add redundancy in color, contrast or lighting to enfatize something...

 

Greetings

Red Knight

That's weird, because I can do a task in windows, say open a program in quite a few different ways.

Use the mouse to click the program's icon and launch it that way, use explorer to find the executable, open the run dialogue box and type the command in, open a dos box and run it that way, use a keyboard combination (Win+E Explorer) to launch it.

 

On an average day I'll use maybe three of those I've mentioned, it increases my productivity. I couldn't use Photoshop or my wordprocesser without redundancy. A person couldn't cut, copy and paste without it as you'd have to open a menu and click an icon instead of Ctrl-x, Ctrl-c or Ctrl-v. I've got an office keyboard that has yet another way of dealing with this, seperate buttons for cut, copy and paste. Even winamp has got more than one way of doing things.

I don't understand why it's a bad thing?

[gangsta]

In GUI design redundancy is one of the most criticised things... IMHO having two ways to manage the base (not quick glance) is redundacy.

GUIs are done exactly that way these days on the desktop. Browser has a fullscreen mode for example.

[gangsta]

In GUI design redundancy is one of the most criticised things... IMHO having two ways to manage the base (not quick glance) is redundacy.

 

Greetings

Red Knight

Is that redundancy as in a good thing or a bad thing, you don't make it clear in your post?

Completly bad, cause it gives you diferent ways to do the same... this holds true to every user interface... not the same for scientific visualization and other area where it is useful to add redundancy in color, contrast or lighting to enfatize something...

 

Greetings

Red Knight

That's weird, because I can do a task in windows, say open a program in quite a few different ways.

Use the mouse to click the program's icon and launch it that way, use explorer to find the executable, open the run dialogue box and type the command in, open a dos box and run it that way, use a keyboard combination (Win+E Explorer) to launch it.

 

On an average day I'll use maybe three of those I've mentioned, it increases my productivity. I couldn't use Photoshop or my wordprocesser without redundancy. A person couldn't cut, copy and paste without it as you'd have to open a menu and click an icon instead of Ctrl-x, Ctrl-c or Ctrl-v. I've got an office keyboard that has yet another way of dealing with this, seperate buttons for cut, copy and paste. Even winamp has got more than one way of doing things.

I don't understand why it's a bad thing?

It is commonly used GUI design to have a fullscreen widget or somethign else to make a window go into fullscreen mode. And it works too. In single player we pause the geoscape when we go into the base fullscreen view. that's how x-com did it and I'd keep it the same for the traditional. For the multiplayer game though I think the geoscope becomes more involved so it might be a good idea to keep an eye on it.

[red knight]

In GUI design redundancy is one of the most criticised things... IMHO having two ways to manage the base (not quick glance) is redundacy.

 

Greetings

Red Knight

Is that redundancy as in a good thing or a bad thing, you don't make it clear in your post?

Completly bad, cause it gives you diferent ways to do the same... this holds true to every user interface... not the same for scientific visualization and other area where it is useful to add redundancy in color, contrast or lighting to enfatize something...

 

Greetings

Red Knight

That's weird, because I can do a task in windows, say open a program in quite a few different ways.

Use the mouse to click the program's icon and launch it that way, use explorer to find the executable, open the run dialogue box and type the command in, open a dos box and run it that way, use a keyboard combination (Win+E Explorer) to launch it.

 

On an average day I'll use maybe three of those I've mentioned, it increases my productivity. I couldn't use Photoshop or my wordprocesser without redundancy. A person couldn't cut, copy and paste without it as you'd have to open a menu and click an icon instead of Ctrl-x, Ctrl-c or Ctrl-v. I've got an office keyboard that has yet another way of dealing with this, seperate buttons for cut, copy and paste. Even winamp has got more than one way of doing things.

I don't understand why it's a bad thing?

Think that you entering the same command from DISTINCT devices... One is mouse, the other is keyboard... that dont account for redundancy... redundancy is from the same device 2 ways to do the same... Multidevice "expert" shortcuts sometimes are good... think about your use, i bet that you use only the keyboard ways just like most expert users instead of the mouse equivalent.

 

EDIT: By the way most GUI Design books and studies say something like this... and guess whats the example of a bad GUI (Microsoft Word)...

 

Greetings

Red Knight

[gangsta]

what about fullscreen mode? Almost all browsers support fullscreen mode and so do many applications like DVD players and so forth. I don't see how that is considered bad gui design being able to go from a window to a fullscreen. I think windows that have a fullscreen widget are pretty standard now. And there is good reason to use them for this remake. That's my opinion.

[red knight]

For the artists: I had abused a little my admin status on sourceforge and i had added a task in the arts department. It is basicaly a constelation texture map to texture an sphere bigger than the world to make the background dynamic.

 

Sourceforge Task Added

 

If you want it to be in the latest demo i suggest you finish it as fast as you can... 10 days is fast enough cause i am still waiting my box and had to finish (if i can finish support radeon video cards)... and a still version of the latest UI (without night maps yet)....

 

Greetings

Red Knight

[Consequence]

I personaly like the base pictures. You should work to improve those first, and not just use the old ones. You should make brand new ones.

[[[Micah]]]

Newly-designed and probably 3d-modeled base facilities are planned. The ones in the current pics are simply to express the concept of the windowed base view and are definitely not meant as a final product.

[Deimos]

A bit of a tweak here and there on this update. After looking at Micah's geoscape pics together I've decided that the grey of the buttons doesn't compliment the rest of geo and looks too boring and flat. So I've tweaked the colour of the buttons a little. I've also included as a test a textured button as the panel buttons might be still a little on the flat side.

 

Other changes are the name of your bases visible and the interceptor window has lost its sidebar. The minimised interceptor window isn't finalised in anyway and is just there as a proof of concept. The colouration will change and it probably will be a little bigger as well to include more info.

The icons for ufo's and the interceptor have also changed and Gangsta suggested the colour of the ufo's icons should only be red when you have researched the hyperwave decoder. If anyone can suggest a sensible colour for radar detected ufo's it will be noted for the next update. I've gone for a lime green at the moment as it contrasts well with prety much everything on the geoscape and should be easy to see.

Finally I've taken the build new base button off the main screen as it's not a regularly used thing and it's been replaced by the transactions button which will bring up the buy stuff screen. Proposal for this screen is that instead of having two seperate screens for buyng and selling there could be a toggle button that changes from buy to sell mode. The text colour can change from say Teal for buying and Scarlet for selling so there won't be any mistaking which mode the player is in. The background picture (whoever is going to design that) will have to take the colour changes into consideration as there are certain colours that will clash quite violently with both red and teal. As with everythingit's just a proposal and up for discussion.

[gangsta]

looks good

[CaptainCharisma]

This is the first time I wonder onto this specific forum, and all I have to say is WOW. Well ok, thats not all.

I espessially loved the nightscape globe with the city lights. By all virtue, we should also be able to see the pyramids of Giza and the great wall of China. But thats more of a wishlist thing. SOmone expressed earier removing the time controls.. i think that is a grave mistake for single player, but very convienient for multiplayer. Another question I have is wheather or not base constuction can occur underwater? I suppose its asking if we were equally inspired by Xcom2. In any case, i thought the missions that took place on the yahts and cargo ships were pretty cool. Finally, regarding the menu color, i think thats trivial, as the player should have the option of altering the psudo-LCD to his or her own preference. I would personally like to feel more of a sence of urgency when a UFO is detected.. some flahing lights, and a siren .. that could get annoying in time, however, unless it were something constantly varying like "Red Alert", "Battlestation", "COndition Red" etc.

 

Windowed dialogs are definately the way to go, and even a nessessity in multiplayer if infact time controls ARE taken away.

It would be nice to have some of the Mac OS X effects when windows pop up or leave... that is they look like waves or zoom out at you. They dematerialize and stuff.. really cool effects.

Well thats my 2 bits ! Keep up the great work !

 

:birthday:

[[[Micah]]]

That's your best yet, Deimos! I like the button color tweaking in the new pic.

[Deimos]

Firstly let me say, whoo hoo it's back Thanks Micah for getting the forum back up, it's been missed.

 

Ok down to business. Updated pic. This is the final design style I'm sticking to (unless I get huge disaproval). What's changed is mainly tweaking the design. The UFO and interceptor blips have been changed to icons. Interceptors stay yellow but UFO's are going to be colour coded. To start with they are going to be the lime green colour seen just above Africa, but when the player researches the hyperwave detector they turn scarlet as shown next to the interceptor. Landed UFO's will be a white ufo and crashed ufo's will be the same colour with a big X through them as seen in the South of England.

 

Redesigned the globe move controls as the old ones were a bit dubious The texture on the buttons has been redesigned as having one textured button repeated looked really bad.

 

The minimised interceptor windows have a slightly different colouration to differentiate away from any other buttons.

 

The main amount of work has been the icons on the interceptor windows. Each of the ranges are accurate and not just some random placing to look good. They were recalculated for the new window and quite the headache to get right. Re drawing the interceptors was quite difficult too as they had to be put at an angle to give the apperance they have. Again the sizes of each had to be recalculated (I'm an artist not a mathematician). The radar 'cone' will be animated and damage will be indicated like in the first by the Interceptor turning red to indicate damage.

 

All in all there are about 36hrs of work put into this so far. So it's not just something knocked up with filters in a couple of minutes, in fact every piece of this geo other than the globe has been hand drawn, some drop shadows have been used on the earth rotation but other than that hand drawn.

 

The text window on the right will announce all UFO's and will flash firstly a lighter colour for Radar detected craft and later on will flash red for Hyperwave detected ufo's. There will be as seen in previous versions a buton to cancel or centre on the ufo. I'm sure it wouldn't be to sync a sound event to trigger at the same time. It's difficult to appreciate how good it really will look in motion but have faith it will be special.