Possible Actions

[j'ordos]

I can't remember if we ever brought this up, so I'll make a new topic of it.

 

In the original xcom, you could leave TU's unused, so a soldier could react during the alien's turn. You could specify weather he should fire aimed, snap or auto if an alien came in range (and if he got to shoot before it ). Now, wouldn't it be a good option to be able to control the soldier and do those reactions yourselves? That way, if you think the situation is unmanagable, you can try and make him run for cover around the corner instead of shooting once and facing his horrible death afterwards. That could come in handy sometimes

[Guest Jim69]

Maybe, however reactions are automatic, and uncontrollable even by an Commander like urself Sometimes they should do more than just fire as their reaction tho.

[mikker]

i agree that they should be able to do something else then just shoot back. If they have a granade, they may even prime it to 0 and throw it (I also think that the priming should take less TU%.).

 

You might not be aboe to do it though, it should be AI. Like:

 

1)AI checks accurecy:

 

=1a), if he have 90+ accurecy with weapon.

=1b), if he have 60-90 accurecy with weapon.

=1c), if he have 0-90 accurecy with weapon.

 

2)AI checks situasion:

 

Long wall at right (closest corner 5 squares away), several trees to the left ( 3 sqares away). Corner unchecked, trees are breakable.

 

Human is at full TUs. He carrys a closequarter weapon. Alien comes arround the corner far away, carrying a accurate plasma riffle (even if he had walked a long way, and unable to shoot, he will still be considered ready to shoot, though).

 

3) AI checks human intelligence:

 

-If its 60-100, he will go to the closest tree, unless he have 1a) then he will shoot.

-If he have 40-60, he will go arround the unchecked corner (with portential aliens). He might shoot, if he have 1a-B ).

-He wil shoot back with his CQ weapon, with all his TUs, regardless of 1).

 

sounds good?

All this is of cause ignored if alien have higher reaction and hits, or if the soldier panics.

Edited August 19, 2003 by mikker

[Guest Jim69]

That could work, I'd think the priority would be finding cover, if not firing back, if not launchin a nade.

[Jerry]

I tend to think of these like "prepared actions" in a DnD game. Its not so much a "delay and choose what to do" as a "I'm gonna sit in front of this door and shoot the first alien that I see". While I do think some level of flexability should be allowed (perhaps the ability to set a threshold like "if you see a couple aliens, shoot, but if a moster appears don't). If we think of these prepared actions as "snap judgements", then we see why we would have less flexability in what goes on.

 

As to the grenade, one *should* be able to hold a primed grenade indeffinately, and therefore have a "thorw grenade" as a snap response. I suppose a little AI is in order to determine "where".

[Guest Jim69]

I'm not so sure a snap judgement would be 2 launch a nade at someone, and I ave always thought u prime a nade by pulling the pin, if u do that then u ave 3 seconds 2 get rid of it. U shouldn't keep it indefinatly as this allows 4 my little adventures with nades of priming 2 AG's, 1 for 1 turn the other for 2, dropping all my gear, wating a turn and running into a Muton filled Med Scout and waitin till they shoot me

[Jerry]

An actual grenade has a pin, a spoon, and a fuse. The pin holds the spoon down. When you grip a grenade, your hand holds the spoon down. If you pull the pin, then let go of the grenade, nothing holds the spoon down and the fuse starts. When the fuse finishes, the grenade explodes.

 

This means that you can set a fuse (not that they are not preset), pull the pin, and then hold the grenade as long as you like. It will not explode until after the spoon is released.

[Guest Jim69]

Hmm, ur right there u know, but IIRC u ave to hold it quite tight 2 stop the "spoon" ( never heard it called that b4 but I'll take ur word 4 it ) from releasing and igniting the fuse, a couple of secs b4 ur arm is hanging from that tree in the corner of the map This u may be able 2 do, but what if u fire a weapon? Rifle ne 1? Could u steady a rifle on ur wrist and hold a nade while the recoil is goin thru ur hand? I doubt it somehow

[Jerry]

My bad, I was not imagining the same situation you were. I did not realize you were discussing trying to fire with a prepared grenade in your hand, I though you were talking about using your prepared action (extra APs) to lob a grenade when that was the weapon in your hand.

 

I would not say you can do it with a one-handed weapon either. Thorwing with your off-hand (especally the distances one must throw a grenade) is more difficult than firing a weapon off-hand.

[Breunor]

Consider that each full turn is 4 seconds, and you're acting on the enemy's turn. So it's like 1 second of "spare time" IMO. I think it's more of an instant response, I see something move I'm blasting it. There's no thinking about it other than point and fire.

 

IIRC, on a grenade you'd pull the pin to allow the spoon to release, but the spoon coming off is what starts the fuse burning. So you could have a reaction grenade toss that leaves the full time on the fuse, but not an instant explosion release. I think it would be very cumbersome to make the AI determine the best retreat route too.

[j'ordos]

That's why I said you could take control yourself. Some message comes up: 'private R. Ookie has spotted a hostile unit and can react', and then you can choose. Should he fire? Throw a grenade? Duck and hope you stay unnoticed? Or hide around the corner?

Whatever you choose, as long as you have enough TU's to do it.

Edited August 19, 2003 by j'ordos

[Guest Jim69]

Thing is, I always imagined the way they move is the orders u give them. You don't order them 2 react, they just do it if they have enough time. I agree with Breunor in that u'd just react and fire, but it is possible that training would kick in and dive for nearby cover.

[Jerry]

I third that, it needs to be a "planned reaction", not an action... especially if we ever consider multi-player.

[fux0r666]

In the tabletop game Warhammer40k there used to be a unit state called overwatch. If you did not move or shoot during your turn you could opt to overwatch what take a firing phase during your opponents movement phase if an enemy unit entered the overwatch unit's line of sight. Overwatch could be broken by indirect fire hits or forcing the enemy into melee combat or something...

 

This might be a way of balancing a system of controlled reactions. It would also put attackers at a disadvantage, though. The investigators or assaulters (whether they are alien or human) would be exposed to guerrilla/urban warfare tactics and sniping while the defenders just sat and waited for you to expose yourself.

 

.... so maybe it's not such a good idea after all. .

[GreatGold]

That's why I said you could take control yourself. Some message comes up: 'private R. Ookie has spotted a hostile unit and can react', and then you can choose. Should he fire? Throw a grenade? Duck and hope you stay unnoticed? Or hide around the corner?

Whatever you choose, as long as you have enough TU's to do it.

But then wouldnt this negate the whole idea of a "reaction"? I do agree that the reactions should be more varied, and include things other than just "fire back". But I also think they should be automatic and out of the control of the player. It would be interesting though to see the reaction depend on the operatives stats, as mentioned above. An operative with high "throwing" stats might prime the grenade and heave, "accuracy" would fire, "strength" perhaps start running, etc...

 

Gold

[Guest Jim69]

Yeah, that's a good solution, making the skills of the fighter detirmine what action he takes. Maybe we should start compiling a list of reactions that we could include and try 2 tie them to the existing stats.

[GreatGold]

Hehe -

 

Although, it would be funny if you had an operative do something incredably stupid during their reaction time, and then you go look at what his stats are and his "bravery" stat is through the roof...

 

,

Gold

[Guest Jim69]

What, like diving in front of a commander b4 an alien could blast them with a plasma rifle? Or jumpin on top of a nade 2 save the squad? I'd love 2 c that

[Cpl. Facehugger]

Hey,

 

Would it be possible to use aliens as shields from incoming fire? Like, say, you disarm a commander, but then 3 soldiers burst into the room, could you use the commander as a hostage?

[Guest Jim69]

Hmm, interesting. Maybe they shouldnt' be able 2 put them in their backpacks, only in hands? Then they walk slowly with the alien in front of them and can only use a 1 handed weapon? Like MGS.

[j'ordos]

Would they care enough? Since they can just clone a new one, they probably wouldn't mind shooting him if it gave them a chance to shoot your soldier

[Guest Jim69]

Yeah, they wouldn't care, but I would if they took the shot instead of me They wouldn't stop shooting but it might let u get away with getting hit 1 or 2 more than usual.

[Cpl. Facehugger]

Well, actually, I think they would care. I mean, commanders are only one to a base, so they are pretty uncommon, and it takes time to train a commander, so I dont think the aliens would risk hurting him. Besides the commander can order them not to shoot.

Now if you took a soldier hostage, they would shoot through him no sweat, but the other alien professions have skills that probably require specialized training so the bugs would be less willing to waste them, imho.

[Guest Jim69]

Do you think they would let u walk out with a commander if they had the chance? They'd shoot him without a second thought. Goes back 2 them being alien, they don't think "That's our leader" they think "Brain tell me to kill him, KILL HIM, AND GET BRAIN PIZZA"