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Terror Units/innate Weapons


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#1 Angry Lawyer

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 03:57 PM

I did a brief search and couldn't find anything, so I'm raising the topic of Terror units.

What is a Terror unit? A terror unit, in the original X-Com games, was identifiable by a number of traits:

A lack of equipment - Terror units could never carry any items.

Innate weapons - Terror units had their attacks built into them, be they simple bites, or bile spitting, or plasma guns.

So, how are Terror units planned to be handled in UFO2000? Obviously, unless you want invincible Cryssalids, you've got to strip them of the ability to carry anything, but you've also got to work out a system in which they can use their innate weapons.

Opinions? I need to know, just in case my whim takes me to coding them.

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#2 gufu

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 04:37 PM

one word:
tanks...
Proud member of Commanders Tommy fan club.

#3 Angry Lawyer

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 04:40 PM

one word:
tanks...

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Tanks count as terror weapons, but multi-tiled units are a bit of a beyotch to code.

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#4 Hobbes

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 05:42 PM

For technical info about terror units I'd recommend the UFOPedia's entry on Alien Life Forms.

Depending on the terror unit, it would be necessary to add 2 aspects to the code:
- The ability to use 2x2 units on the game (for Sectopods, Cyberdisks and Reapers), which would also allow for HWPs/Hovertanks to be added (maybe).
- To have units with innate weapons (like you mentioned).

A big question that is unanswered is what will be their specific skills/weapons. For instance, would a Chryssalid be able to zombify the other player units? Only the human ones? Is that workable for a multiplayer game? Or should it only have a HTH (hand to hand) attack?

Another question would be their stats (and if they are fixed or not) and their price but that would something to be solved later.

#5 Angry Lawyer

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 07:26 AM

So here's what I got so far:

Multi-tiles support - this is going to be a necessity. Thankfully, a number of terror units only take one tile

Fixed statistics - Terror units tend to be homogenous - this rules out some rather unfair advantages, such as giving a Chryssalid a huge number of time units

Lack of Inventory

Fixed weapons in hands

Side-effects (Silacoid tile burning, Cyberdisk explosions, Celatid cloning) - stuff that gets automated by the game without human control

In my opinion, Chryssalids should keep their zombifying attack (that's what makes them Chryssalids), but liberties will have to be taken in balancing them - such as a high time-unit cost for the attack, low health or armour, or simply making them super-high priced. Perhaps even removing the 100% chance of zombification - make it require the opponent to be at a certain health of below. Another consideration is how the game engine should handle the generated units - also, for Celatids. Chryssalids should be able to zombify any organic one-tile units, otherwise people would just stop taking humans.

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#6 Hobbes

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 08:43 AM

Side-effects (Silacoid tile burning, Cyberdisk explosions, Celatid cloning) - stuff that gets automated by the game without human control

Another consideration is how the game engine should handle the generated units  - also, for Celatids.

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Despite what the original game's UFOPedia claimed, the Celatid never duplicated themselves during a mission. That fixes that problem :)

#7 Angry Lawyer

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 08:59 AM

Despite what the original game's UFOPedia claimed, the Celatid never duplicated themselves during a mission. That fixes that problem :)

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I'm not sure what version you were playing, but they did on mine. Like haemaphroditic rabbits.

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#8 Hobbes

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 10:16 AM

Despite what the original game's UFOPedia claimed, the Celatid never duplicated themselves during a mission. That fixes that problem :)

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I'm not sure what version you were playing, but they did on mine. Like haemaphroditic rabbits.

-Angry Lawyer

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Check again or ask other players if you don't believe me.

#9 Angry Lawyer

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 11:29 AM

Check again or ask other players if you don't believe me.


It's been a long time since I fought them, so I could be wrong.

In any case, they're supposed to respawn :P

-Angry Lawyer

#10 Blood Angel

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 12:34 PM

Check again or ask other players if you don't believe me.


It's been a long time since I fought them, so I could be wrong.

In any case, they're supposed to respawn :P

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Nope. They aren't.

#11 Angry Lawyer

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 01:20 PM

Wrong choice of word - reproduce, I meant.

http://www.ufopaedia...p?title=Celatid
http://ufopaedia.xco...com/celatid.htm

I'm pretty sure they were originally concepted to splid during play. I think it adds a new dimension to the game, although there'd be balancing issues (people hiding them so they spawn an army)

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#12 Phaedrus

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 03:08 PM

One way to possibly balance the reproducing celatids would be to give the splitting celatid a stat reduction. So a celatid that splits would lose health or stamina or both. The new celatid could also be somewhat inferior to the normal one with reduced stats. Thus breeding an army of these things isn't always the best strategy but a few splits may be helpful. You might also see people bringing a celatid just to have it split a lot in order to make cheap scouts that are easily expendable. Perhaps limiting the number of times a celatid splits could be an alternative solution. Say 3 or 4 times with stat reductions or even 1 or 2 times with no stat reduction.

#13 Angry Lawyer

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 03:15 PM

I'm liking the idea. I'm leaning more towards both the copy and the original having halves stats - therefore, a Celatid can clone about four times before even a graze from a pistol will slay it. The more you make, the weaker everything gets, to an extent where cloning kills both.

Alternatively, hand cloning over to the engine to tell when, in such situations as "just killed an enemy" or something, therefore, with no human control, there can be little abuse.

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#14 Phaedrus

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 09:24 PM

Another idea to throw into the mix would be to only allow the splits every so often like every other turn or every 3rd turn.

Oh yeah, and I say that you let the Chrysallid zombify anything (human, alien, whatever). That way there is no problems with one race being more susceptible than others.

Edited by Phaedrus, 30 November 2005 - 09:25 PM.


#15 Sporb

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Posted 01 December 2005 - 02:19 AM

if i ever finish my zombie character you could use that skin to replace the existing zombie so that it can hold guns (im thinking that the player who controls the chryssalid takes control of a zombie)

#16 Angry Lawyer

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Posted 01 December 2005 - 06:42 AM

Oh yeah, and I say that you let the Chrysallid zombify anything (human, alien, whatever).  That way there is no problems with one race being more susceptible than others.

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Terror units and tanks don't look like they have the right physiology to harbour baby Chryssalids :P

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#17 Kratos

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Posted 01 December 2005 - 04:15 PM

Celatid cloning I think is not necessary (btw, they never reproduced). Their acid is strong enough...