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Revitalizing Firearms


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That is pretty much it, but the laser does not need to be a weapon grade. Beam itself would barely make exposed skin burn.

 

Yes, propelling the projectile is a totally different story. I would prefer stronger explosives over magnetic fields. As we have new Alien Alloy technology available, the gun handling the pressure wouldn't be much of an issue. This would be quite natural evolution of weapons, as bullets would be made smaller and faster already, but weapon materials are the biggest restrictor.

 

About stealth, supersonic projectiles create a lot of noise, laser would make sound like a small lightning, subsonic bullets are mostly useless except for plasma, which could be quite silent actually. Also, the aliens use direct gravity manipulation in their craft propulsion, this tech could make a nice way to get the bullet going quickly and silently.

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I imagine that as Alien Alloys become cheap for arms manufacturers that is how that evolution would go. Chemicals create a large flash and must be loaded into the bullet. They also can explode outside teh firing.

 

Xenium projection guns would be a decent stealth weapon with smart projectiles. Anybody knows a hot plasma bolt means enemies, but a tiny dart shaped as an insect is less recognizable threat signal.

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Also the since the speed of sound is so high in the heated-air-tunnel, I think it wouldn't produce a sonic boom, so it's equivalent audibly to subsonic rounds.
Correct, that is the whole idea. But the air canal itself expands faster than mach 1 - creating a sonic shockwave like a lightning.

 

I imagine that as Alien Alloys become cheap for arms manufacturers that is how that evolution would go. Chemicals create a large flash and must be loaded into the bullet. They also can explode outside teh firing.
Might well be that way later on, but initially explosives are cheap, available and reliable. Tested design that works adequately in every way. Well-designed assault rifle works even when buried in swamp and ran over by a tank. (Actual russian test with AK-47 and T-72) All the moving parts do increase risk to get jammed, eat away power, are complex and and it would be better to be without any.

 

Shifting period would be quick and easy to achieve, just make all-standard M-16 out of AAlloys and fill the ammunition with hexogen instead of gunpowder. Magnetic acceleration would be better in many ways, but take a long time to make practical.

 

Gravity accelerated smart projectiles that use a laser to make them subsonic. Sounds like an alien tech to me.
Projectiles cannot be "smart", as the laser canal is straight, and i cannot imagine a way to substantially adjust trajectory of a bullet flying 5 km/sec.
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  • 3 weeks later...

Solution to how to accelerate projectiles to high speeds without damaging complex internal structures:

Accelerate the projectiles gravetically.

 

See, the reason that the internal structure would become damaged is because in traditional firearms the the back of the bullet is pushed which pushes the front of the bullet and the internal structure. If you apply the same force separately to every single atom in the bullet directly, you will not have any damage to the internal structure. But the problem with this is that you may have to abandon rifling and spin the bullet gravetically also. Additionally, the power generation requirements for gravetic acceleration may be a problem if you wanted to keep the weapon portable.

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Gravitic acceleration does give a lot of advantages, but Newton laws still apply. If bullet goes forwards, gun goes backwards. Recoil stress would just be transferred to gravitic generator. Batteries carried would be as much a problem as in any other type of gun, same energy is used for bullet no matter what the propellant.
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Batteries could be as simple as a belt or backpack carried device.

 

I don't know much from the science stuff you all have been discussing, but this thought sounded appealing, well, from at least one useage standpoint. If its power source was such that in order to get some sort of recoil-less effect from <insert superduperish weapony thing here>, as well as perhaps stealth, sacrifice movement and/or distance traveled (TU usage for hauling the thing around) of the soldier and weight (weapon + hefting that power supply that takes up all your backpack spaces).

 

I don't know what sort of accuracies you want this weapon to have, but I do like that can take a decently high strength to carry it, plus have inventory space taken up on your unit to carry supplimentary power.

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Tuoppi: I never said it would have no recoil.

 

I just said that it wouldn't cause any damage to bullets with complex internal structure which would allow for:

Bullets filled with magnesium (incendiary).

Bullets filled with sulfuric acid or something.

Bullets filled with poison

Bullets with complex explosive devices (for example, if there is a sequel to Xenocide, you could have bullets with miniturized blaster bombs in them.)

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  • 1 month later...

I wouldn't mind a few sniper-dedicated weapons, though something tells me that these tend to mess up game mechanics (think AWP in Counter Strike). What about gas-expanding bullets? If one gets through their skin, you'll be the one harvesting their organs off the floor. If one doesn't . . . anyone knows what might happen?

 

About the laser sights:

Different colours. Please? =p And what about the cheaper alternative - iron sights? It would be cool if there was an "aim" option to have your troops paint that suspicious door with their laser sights, and the alien opens the door to find six green/red lines zooming in onto him . . .

 

Nah, I doubt that'll be available. What about anti-infantry machine guns like the M60? Or those tank-mounted ones that are supposedly used for anti-aircraft? I don't know anything about these, so . . .

Edited by Red Stone
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Submachineguns are a must in my opinion. I'd much rather give on of my soldiers a P90 or MP5 than that wimpy pistol. I've also thought of a way to reduce recoil. Have a blank in a very very short barrel firing in the opposite direction of the bullet. This may hurt the firer though. I don't know enough about guns and blanks. the extra barrel would only have to be a little longer than the blank.
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The tank mounted ones are USUALLY 50 caliber machine guns, and can be paired or put in a quad mount for 4 barrels.. unless you are talking bout ADA (Air Defense Artillery) that shoot 20mm or 30mm slugs or HE rounds... but even somthing as small as a SAW can be pintle mounted and it fires standard 5.56 rounds like an m16...
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I'm slightly wary on the subject of using rapid firing munitions, if only because I'm unsure what the expected enemy opposition is or how it'd take form. I mean, if there's a point where they're just streaming on in with their infantry without a sense of how many total you'd face, then these rapid firing munitions/weapons might then have a particular niche.

 

i.e. if there was a spawn point you'd have to neutralize that just kept sending alien reinforcements, then these weapons make more sense, especially if you balance it with TU usage (like to have the unit expend them all if you could fire say, 6-8 auto/snap rounds of something in the turn but not aimed).

 

Then it sorta makes the case for supressing fire weapons types.

Edited by Snakeman
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  • 1 month later...
Ahhh.. Now i got your point. The bullets just need to be big and slow enough for those structures to be of any use.

 

Actually, no. The bullet could be any size or speed as long is it was accelerated gravetically. For example, if you are in an airplane that starts falling, you won't get crushed against it's ceiling because gravity accelerates BOTH you AND the airplane around you.

 

No thoughts on my decreased recoil idea?

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Ahhh.. Now i got your point. The bullets just need to be big and slow enough for those structures to be of any use.

 

Actually, no. The bullet could be any size or speed as long is it was accelerated gravetically. For example, if you are in an airplane that starts falling, you won't get crushed against it's ceiling because gravity accelerates BOTH you AND the airplane around you.

 

No thoughts on my decreased recoil idea?

 

The AK-47 does something similar, where a portion of the gasses from the round are blown back the other way.

 

The trick would be proper timing, and would essentially make you cary twice the ammo. You could make it vent out the side (actually, you could even make it eject the previous cartridge and bring a new one up to the chamber).

 

The more complex the firing action, the more expensive, and the more often it can jam up. Maybe with a weapon like this, give it a 5%-10% chance to jam (and your auto-fire only fires 1-2 rounds, or a snap/aimed shot doesn't fire at all). It would still take the TUs though, as you would have to recock the gun to clear the chamber.

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Actually, no. The bullet could be any size or speed as long is it was accelerated gravetically. For example, if you are in an airplane that starts falling, you won't get crushed against it's ceiling because gravity accelerates BOTH you AND the airplane around you.

Correct, the bullet wouldn't have any problems in acceleration phase, but the shooters' shoulder would certainly have. Acceleration still means recoil, that effectively limits mass of bullet if it is fast.

 

At time of impact, poisoned, explosive, acid or whatever system the bullet has, will be quite useless if the bullet is too light and/or travels through enemy body.

 

And as comes to recoil reduction, ak-47's (and pretty much any automatic or semi-automatic weapon's) reloading system takes its power from expanding gasses and includes a backwards moving mass. Both reduce recoil, but also waste some energy from bullet. Standard assault rifle has extremely low recoil, any shotgun or hunting rifle has tons more, not to mention large sniper rifles.

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A blank firing backward in a separate barrel wouldn't waste energy that could be used for the bullet, instead it uses extra energy.

 

Maybe acid or poison wouldn't be useful if the bullet went through, but I fail to see how an explosive it would be useless. Imagine a blaster bomb that doesn't do waypoints but instead smashes through a target and explodes on the other side. It would be kind of a double dose of crushing and high explosive damage. Additionally, it'd be a great way to get rid of cover.

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A blank firing backward in a separate barrel wouldn't waste energy that could be used for the bullet, instead it uses extra energy.
It is much simplier to just put bit extra gunpowder to the actual round and divert explosive gases. No need to create a complex simultaneous ignition systems, and the result is lighter too. Only problem nowadays is material durability but our alien friends can help with that. The counterweight is usually a spring-weight -type, but there are quicksilver and hydraulic ones too. And muzzle brakes do not significantly reduce bullet energy, but effectively reduce recoil. There are of course limits for this technology. And thus if explosive bullet is fast-> it is light-> it is small-> it has little room for internal systems-> it has little explosive power compared to its kinetic energy. Result: Keep it simple solid bullet or increase size and reduce speed.
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Submachineguns are a must in my opinion. I'd much rather give on of my soldiers a P90 or MP5 than that wimpy pistol. I've also thought of a way to reduce recoil. Have a blank in a very very short barrel firing in the opposite direction of the bullet. This may hurt the firer though. I don't know enough about guns and blanks. the extra barrel would only have to be a little longer than the blank.

 

Apart from the bizarre handle of the P-90, it's a devastatingly effective submachinegun. If you've seen it on UFO:Aftermath, or Stargate SG-1, it will literally rip through unarmoured flesh (and armoured flesh, too) within seconds, and has a high clip capacity. Ideally, in the battlescape, it would fire half-a-dozen to a dozen rounds, for about 40/50% of the soldier's TU, and the shots would either be accurate, but weak, or strong but inaccurate. The P-90 usually comes with a spotlight and lasersight. I think they can be fitted with a miniature scope, but don't take my word on that.

 

As for the MP-5, it's a familiar, often used weapon, and fairly popular. Most people can tell an MP-5 just from the design, etc. Always a good fallback. :)

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Don't forget the UMP. Looks a lot like the MP5, but only a 20-25 (not sure) round clip. Oh, I should mention... it uses .45 cal ammunition. (full-metal-jacket* I believe)

 

Good balance of penetration and damage. JHP would expand more and do more damage, but wouldn't go through thicker stuff.

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The UMP is the "universal machine pistol" (translated from german) and it comes in many calibres. So does the USP, incidentally, being the "universal service pistol." Edited by fux0r666
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The UMP is the "universal machine pistol" (translated from german) and it comes in many calibres.  So does the USP, incidentally, being the "universal service pistol."

 

 

Ah. I meant the one you always see in things like Ghost Recon, Rainbow Six, Counter Strike, ect.

 

You know which one I'm talking about?

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P90 does have a scope I think. I don't have any actual evidence, but a friend of mine (who seems to know a lot more about guns than I do) claims you can attach anything from a grenade launcher to a scope on a P90. Also, in one episode of SG-1, Jack O'Neill uses a scope on his P90. All I know is that it looks cool, is appears to be extremely effective for it's size, based on what I've seen in Stargate SG-1, Stargate Atlantis, and other movies. Edited by T-1
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P90 does have a scope I think. I don't have any actual evidence, but a friend of mine (who seems to know a lot more about guns then I do) claims you can attach anything from a grenade launcher to a scope on a P90. Also, in one episode of SG-1, Jack O'Neill uses a scope on his P90. All I know is that it looks cool, is appears to be extremely effective for it's size, based on what I've seen in Stargate SG-1, Stargate Atlantis, and other movies.

 

Isn't it usually an M68 Aimpoint or Acog Reflex sight? I know we attach an Acog 4x scope to our M4-SOPMODs. No reason why we couldn't put one up. But as a Sub Machine gun, the reflex or aimpoint would be better for quick close-quarters aiming. The scope would be an impediment at short ranges.

 

*Reflex and Aimpoint are basically high visibility replacements for iron sights. Instead of looking down the barrel, you look slightly above it and get a better view. Its usually parralax-free, you don't need to take the time to align the back and front aiming points (ironsights for example). The dot covers where you are aiming, even if you are looking into the sight at a slight angle.

 

Heh, heres a (stupid) idea... have a troop run around with a sawed-off M82 anti-material rifle.

 

 

Links: http://tri.army.mil/LC/CS/csi/satoc.htm#Close (M68)

Image of Acog Reflex: http://www.nafan.com/hosted/graphics/produ...cultrasight.jpg

Another Reflex scope (schematic): http://www.scopestuff.com/ss_telr4.gif

Action shot of Reflex-style optic: http://www.okousa.com/sitebuilder/images/army2-532x359.jpg

 

Cant really seem to find much on the M68. hrm. Doesn't help that a galaxy shares that same name and hurts my searching. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_dot_sights the M68 is one of these. Acog Reflex is similar.

 

You get the idea of it :D

 

Actually, heres a (big) device that does the SAME thing. except the rifles usually have a simple dot or MAYBE a small cross/post. This is more for an aircraft cannon, but it works (and looks) the same, pretty much. http://home.earthlink.net/~timh615/ATM/reflex.htm

Edited by x0563511
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My same friend has an airsoft smg with one of those red dot scopes. works quite well, but wouldn't a laser sight be better?

 

Laser sights can give you away. If there is dust/smoke, it points right at you. If it's dark, you can see the emitter (especially well if its pointed in your direction (try it with a laser pointer (do not let someone shine it at your face. have em shine it at your chest)). Both run off of batteries, though. I suppose it would be a matter of choice. I would rather have a red-dot-sight in a confusing firefight where more than one person had a laser of the same color (which one is mine?)

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 2 months later...
The UMP is the "universal machine pistol" (translated from german) and it comes in many calibres.  So does the USP, incidentally, being the "universal service pistol."

 

 

The one you see in Counterstrike/Ghost Recon is the UMP. Saying that it is the .45 calibre is like saying that car with 14" wheels. It's a very simple operation to rechamber the weapon, and so any UMP may fire several different loads in its lifetime.

 

The P90 has a non-telescopic reflex (or holographic) site.

 

Laser sites are for pointing red dots at people. Siting at range is nearly impossible with those things. The main effect that laser sites have on people is when they see the red dot on themselves. It's psychological. Most people firing weapons won't see their own laser dot because it would be obscured by the iron sites of the weapon. Plus, firing from the hip is stupid.

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  • 2 months later...

Necromancing threads again... I get the urge sometimes.

 

 

US military is developing and testing plasma canal much like i described on previous pages. The gun is supposed to be in operational use in few years. (Year old news, forgot about these back then.)

 

Basically this thing is a long-range wireless taser with nearly continuous beam. Gun ionizes a narrow path of air into plasma, so that it becomes conductive, and sends electric current through.

 

Article about these

 

We just need to dig up those advanced prototypes from area 51, pump few more watts into beam emitter and instead of electricity, shoot a very small bullet through with huge speed. Gentlemen, we have a piercergun.

 

Energy consumption seems to be minor problem because they use nearly continuous repeating beam, and we just need few dozen shots in battle at most. Size is still too large and range is still short, but nothing the great minds of our scientists couldn't handle. (With little helpfrom our visitors.) Biggest setbacks seem to be collateral damage, money and ethical issues of nonlethal weaponry, but those are not issues for X-Corps...

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[...]

Basically this thing is a long-range wireless taser with nearly continuous beam. Gun ionizes a narrow path of air into plasma, so that it becomes conductive, and sends electric current through.

[...]

We just need to dig up those advanced prototypes from area 51, pump few more watts into beam emitter and instead of electricity, shoot a very small bullet through with huge speed. Gentlemen, we have a piercergun.

[...]

 

what exact advantage would this "piercergun" have over just the gun shooting the very small bullet itself? (sorry if you said it before, right now I'm just too lazy to read through the previous 6 pages of this thread :P)

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  • 9 months later...
This has probably already been brought up, but what about alien alloy bullets??? After you get alien alloys researched, why not be able to research bullets for each human firearm?? You could even go into such details as lead/alloy sabot rounds...alloy core surrounded by lead (Hydroshock's anyone???) One could stretch it out to the point that A\A rounds are lighter than lead, thereby allowing the magazine to carry more rounds.
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Yea this was something that has been brought up before, as one of several iteas to make the shelf life of the standard gear last longer. Whether the weapon was made of the alloy (for a weight reduction) or its ammunition (power). I don't think the increased ammo clip amount was touched on but that's also worth looking at.

 

I was thinking the ammo capacity of the clips that have greator stopping power should actually be less, somewhere in the neighborhood of 6-10 rounds and maybe explosive ala the handgun from Blade Runner or the show that took from that, the new Battlestar Galactica TV show that uses both that ability that's married to whatever the regular rounds the gun also uses (I think its actually a dual barrelled pistol).

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  • 4 months later...

Hey... and... what about Railguns, or gauss cannons? (magnetic fields shooting shells so fast that nothing can stop it, and even the air is burnt up with the speed... well not so fast, but something better than conventional bullets). Gauss cannons, that don`t use explosive power to move the shells, so the inertia will be lower. What about them?

 

Those toys would be 5 to 10 times faster than our bullets, and adding depleted uranium to them... (specially in case of autocannons and HWP`s ) would make them even more effective.

 

The idea also comes to a gauss defensive instalation, like in ogame.

Edited by Adun_Toridas
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