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CTD - Missile Defense Array


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#51 Astyanax

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Posted 16 March 2005 - 01:40 AM

Sorry to go off-topic, but this was classic!

We were arguing about something not even relevant.

LOL

It's sometimes more frequent in my life than I like to believe. ;)
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#52 Penta

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Posted 16 March 2005 - 08:40 AM

Yeah, same here.

But, damn, it felt good to argue.:-)

Still, though:

I'm unsure it's relevant what the warhead is made out of. Y'see, the definition of a warhead is that its made of something that goes boom. Like, explosive. So long as one assumes there's something that goes boom, you get a tighter description by stripping out unnecessary details like how the missile is made of tungsten, or carbon fiber, or cheese doodles, or puppy fur...:-P

#53 dan2

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Posted 16 March 2005 - 11:14 AM

I'm unsure it's relevant what the warhead is made out of. Y'see, the definition of a warhead is that its made of something that goes boom. Like, explosive. So long as one assumes there's something that goes boom, you get a tighter description by stripping out unnecessary details like how the missile is made of tungsten, or carbon fiber, or cheese doodles, or puppy fur...:-P

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If I was talking about missile defense, I felt the need to talk about the missiles themselves. You don't think is actually necessary?
I'll try to make the whole text again, from scratch. It will contain:

Title
Reference
Short Description
Why is it used
How does it look like
What it contains
How is it working in respect with:
Operators (if any)
Pods and Missiles
Efficiency and Conclusion (I like them together)

What did I miss?

#54 Kikanaide

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Posted 16 March 2005 - 11:41 AM

Just throwing my two cents somewhere besides plasma today... :) I'm basically just going to re-state what penta said a few posts back, but hopefully it'll be different enough to be worth mentioning.

To the best of my knowledge (which is far from perfect, certainly), DU is used for shells - i.e., non-explosive projectile rounds. Particularly the use I've read about is in sabot rounds...where they have been shown to do some pretty neat stuff (of course, as with all weapons, the person(s) on the receiving end would debate whether it was 'neat'). IIRC, they dropped it out of tank armors due to the health risk (regardless of whether that risk is large or small). I did read some articles on DU armor in the gulf war, but most of them were on sort of questionable sites.

But the point is this - non-explosive rounds have to be dense in order to penetrate, and DU has an added advantage with that aggresive spalling. Also, they require significant relative velocities to the target - which is great on land where the target probably isn't going above 60mph. In the air, a plane can go just as fast as a rocket (even if it can't maneuver as fast), and it seems likely that the relative velocities at point of impact would be fairly low.

By contrast, SAMs seem to be just a body to deliver an explosive. In all likelihood, they have to adjust mid-flight since the distances make normal projectiles less attractive. That means they are rockets... But I don't think most rockets penetrate the target (at least not intentionally) they just hit it or get close and explode. The dis-advantage to using DU (or tungsten of any form) would be increased weight, which means increased inertia, which means decreased ability to adjust to an incoming craft's escape attempts. Although the penetration of DU-tipped rockets could be handy for alien craft (which, I imagine, include a fair amount of explosive protection since they have miniature power plants driving them edit - and don't have to worry about weight - end edit), nothing flying in the sky right now has much in the way of armor. So I doubt existing technology (or anything ten years from now) will anticipate armor-penetration requirements.

Tell me if that rambling made any sense. Or was helpful at all. If not, feel free to ignore me :) I'm happy in my corner.

Edited by Kikanaide, 16 March 2005 - 11:43 AM.

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#55 dan2

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Posted 16 March 2005 - 11:58 AM

But the point is this - non-explosive rounds have to be dense in order to penetrate, and DU has an added advantage with that aggresive spalling.  Also, they require significant relative velocities to the target - which is great on land where the target probably isn't going above 60mph.  In the air, a plane can go just as fast as a rocket (even if it can't maneuver as fast), and it seems likely that the relative velocities at point of impact would be fairly low.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

About this portion, I would agree with you if the UFO would be running like a coward dog, but isn't the attacking UFO and the missile going in opposite directions?
I didn't say the head is made completely of vitreous tungsten, did I? Sorry if I did, I'll make it just a shell around the explosive.
If you don't know how your enemy is going to be armored, isn't a good idea to actually have some penetretion for your rocket? Just in case?

#56 Kikanaide

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Posted 16 March 2005 - 12:16 PM

About this portion, I would agree with you if the UFO would be running like a coward dog, but isn't the attacking UFO and the missile going in opposite directions?
I didn't say the head is made completely of vitreous tungsten, did I? Sorry if I did, I'll make it just a shell around the explosive.
If you don't know how your enemy is going to be armored, isn't a good idea to actually have some penetretion for your rocket? Just in case?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hrm...that first is a good point. I guess the question is - did whatever company that makes these missiles ('cause it's commercially available from the beginning of the game, right? Which means it is pre-alien contact technology as I understand it...please tell me if any of this in parenthesis is wrong) plan on this particular application. If they just used existing missiles, then they would be designed to hit targets at all possible relative velocities.

And I didn't intend to say that the design wasn't a good idea if we knew about aliens when it was performed, I apologize if I did. I just don't think we do it currently, because no one has ever put something into the air that good-old-fashioned HE won't bring down. I think someone would have to be prescient to predict that such a need would ever exist, since armored flight is so far off...I mean, it's not easy to get something to fly even when it's made out of very light materials. We don't have and can't conceive of having anti-gravity in the next ten years. I just don't know why someone would add the extra expense and design time and decrease mobility to counter something no one uses. Although some government contractors...anyway...

I would say that if vitreous tungsten were used in any form, it would be a simple cone on the front of the warhead...probably only covering to the maximum diameter of the explosive or even less. I think that it's overkill for anything we put in the air (and thus for this particular write-up), but it's your call.
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#57 Kikanaide

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Posted 16 March 2005 - 12:19 PM

Ah, one other quick thought. If the missile failed the initial pass, it would "have" to come around from behind. I put "have" in quotes because the engineers may say that it's not worth the risk to have a missile hurtling back toward base...but it's a lot easier to hit stuff at lower relative velocities.
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#58 kafros

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Posted 16 March 2005 - 01:25 PM

...the engineers may say that it's not worth the risk to have a missile hurtling back toward base..

Indeed, that's what is taken into consideration most of the time! SAMs usually have missiles that either go straight ahead, or have a "limited homing ability" (they chase the target, but don't go downwards, towards the ground ;)).

An outer layer of DU (or whatever) would make a nice addition. A common shell with just another layer of material, just to make it a bit more powerful. What's the problem anyway??? :)


P.S And Kikanaide, there's no need to have a "defensive stance". No offense, don't take me wrong! We are a nice team which co-operates without problems, everyone says whatever he thinks is right, and then we talk about it, we analyze, and make a conclusion. Feel free to add whatever you want! :D =b =b

#59 Penta

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Posted 16 March 2005 - 02:49 PM

An outer layer of DU (or whatever) would make a nice addition. A common shell with just another layer of material, just to make it a bit more powerful. What's the problem anyway??? :)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I hate to point out the obvious, but, um, that DU doesn't disappear when it blows up the target. It would disperse.

In air.

As....Depleted Uranium. Which would cause cancer when you breathe it in as it gets carried on the winds. Which is kinda the thing they bop DU for now. :)

#60 dan2

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Posted 16 March 2005 - 02:59 PM

An outer layer of DU (or whatever) would make a nice addition. A common shell with just another layer of material, just to make it a bit more powerful. What's the problem anyway??? :)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I hate to point out the obvious, but, um, that DU doesn't disappear when it blows up the target. It would disperse.

In air.

As....Depleted Uranium. Which would cause cancer when you breathe it in as it gets carried on the winds. Which is kinda the thing they bop DU for now. :)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's why I came with the "vitreous tungsten" in the first place, didn't I?

#61 kafros

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Posted 16 March 2005 - 04:22 PM

Indeed you did :)
No need to get confused anymore! :wacko:

Should we choose "vitreous tungsten"? I say: =b

#62 Kikanaide

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Posted 16 March 2005 - 07:15 PM

I withdraw my original comments about the missile not needing to penetrate before exploding. After looking at Lockheed's website and discussing this with a friend in industry, it appears that the PAC-3 and possibly a few others may well involve penetration before explosion. As that technology is available or under development now, surely it will be ten years from now.

However, I'm not certain just how much vitreous tungsten to use...although the patriot weighs in at a ton (almost precisely), the PAC-3 (which are designed to strike and then explode) are described as "light-weight." It turns out to be freakishly hard to hit something head-on...

I would say now that a tip (basically a hollow cone) could be used, though it would have to be special-made for X-Corps in a reasonable guess that a UFO or alien bomb would be more difficult to intercept than a Terran ICBM or some such... I don't see (notice the same language from earlier) why you would want to surround the warhead, provided it stays HE which is simply ignited and then explodes. If it were a nuke or something with precise chemical or mechanical ignition sequences, perhaps.

And therein lies the reason for my "defensive stance," kafros...you can pretty well read in my posts where I'm not sure about something...I'll try to tone it down though, thanks for the comment. Hopefully it doesn't sound like I'm trying to prove, but instead sounds like I'm not sure (that's what's intended)...
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#63 dan2

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Posted 16 March 2005 - 07:48 PM

I guess I'm going to mention the missile are versions of the TITAN HEAVY MISSILE and pass the headache to somebody else.
I got pretty stiff opposition against amorphous tungsten, so whatever would be in TITAN HEAVY MISSILE will be good enough for me.
I promise to rewrite the whole thing really soon, hopefully saturday.
It will contain mainly how the building operates and facilities inside, but not really much about the missiles. The reader can go and read TITAN HEAVY MISSILE if required.
I wish I had the time now, but RL is not forgiving.
Thanks for all your comments :)

Edited by dan2, 16 March 2005 - 07:49 PM.


#64 Penta

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Posted 16 March 2005 - 08:13 PM

That works.

<grumpy>Even if I think Titan is a bad name for a missile in Xenocide. I keep thinking of the rocket/ICBM</grumpy>

#65 dan2

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Posted 16 March 2005 - 08:16 PM

That works.
<grumpy>Even if I think Titan is a bad name for a missile in Xenocide. I keep thinking of the rocket/ICBM</grumpy>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ha, ha :) you're unhappy even with the name Titan.
Sorry, not my department anymore.
Maybe Azrael will put it for vote when the time will come.
My vote will still be on Titan, but you'll have your vote, too :Coffee:

#66 dan2

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Posted 16 March 2005 - 08:20 PM

As was I, Dan2.  I have voiced my dissatisfaction through a PM.

In any case, I guess it's largely a non-issue.  Texts using depleted uranium will probably stay that way, and your amorphous tungsten idea will stay in your text- just don't say that depleted uranium was banned. :)

Although I'm still hoping for a new Missile Weapons Systems CT to explain all this in full detail. :P

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dissatisfaction to what?
The text was removed and I got a warning :(
Why didn't I think of passing the whole discussion to Titan Missile earlier, I don't know. My bad, I guess :blush1:

#67 Penta

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Posted 16 March 2005 - 09:12 PM

Ha, ha  :)  you're unhappy even with the name Titan.
Sorry, not my department anymore.
Maybe Azrael will put it for vote when the time will come.
My vote will still be on Titan, but you'll have your vote, too  :Coffee:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


What, can I not be grumpy?

<swings grumpystick>

#68 dan2

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Posted 16 March 2005 - 10:15 PM

What, can I not be grumpy?
<swings grumpystick>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, you can be, but I wish you weren't, because people get grumpy usually when real life make them so. I don't really want anybody to be unhappy. Besides, that decreases productivity and morale, both very useful for a CTD writer.
So, forget about your grumpiness and please, try to.... write something that will make you forget you're grumpy in the first place.
......
Not very helpful, huh?....
.......
OK, then be grumpy and please write everything that seems bad in my text. Discharge all your anger on it, slice it, dice it, show everything bad in it.
How does that work?

Edited by dan2, 16 March 2005 - 10:39 PM.


#69 dan2

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Posted 16 March 2005 - 10:37 PM

Another version, hopefully a better one :)

MISSILE DEFENSE ARRAY
X-Net://Pegasus.net/Base Facilities/Missile Defense Array

The threat of an Alien assault on an X-Corps base has always been a concern despite the fact that they are constructed deep underground and designed to withstand an extended bombardment. X-Corps engineers improved on existing missile defense technologies to bring about the advanced, more efficient [Missile Defense Array] based on the veteran ‘Rapier’ SAM system.

Should our activities be efficient enough to draw attention from any UFO, it would be likely that our bases would become prime targets for Alien investigations or retaliatory strikes. It might be wise for us to implement active measures in order to defend our bases from aerial Alien assaults. Unfortunately, because of our current lack of knowledge of Alien UFO speed and armor capabilities, our engineers recommend construction of multiple [Missile Defense Array] to improve our ability to repel such assaults.

The [Missile Defense Array] carefully designed for X-Corps is based on extremely effective SAM systems currently used by major world military organizations. The facility is build on a square area with the length of 15 meters and it contains a control room connected to an accurate, though very short-range, microwave radar, revolutionary rotary mountings with ready-to-launch 'Rapier' missiles, and storage for a generous supply of missiles delivered through an automatic loading system.

Inside the control room, our defensive operators can remotely adjust missile trajectories when tracking devices are unable to lock onto difficult targets due to excessive speeds or unusual emissions spectra. Microwave radar signals are continually analyzed by photomolecular supercomputers, enabling fast access to vital information about the target- its shape, size, and velocity- all with a precision of mere centimeters, giving our defenses a significant boost in accuracy.

While [Missile Defense Array] design may be improved later with more complex technology, this facility may be a good start toward an active defense against any assaulting enemy.

"Recruits, please remember, pizza is not delivered by big, fast spinning flying saucers"



#70 Penta

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Posted 16 March 2005 - 10:41 PM

That works beautifully.

And, yes, I've been grumpy cuz of RL.

Namely, I've been sick.

#71 dan2

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Posted 16 March 2005 - 10:44 PM

That works beautifully.

And, yes, I've been grumpy cuz of RL.

Namely, I've been sick.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That explains it. What do you think of my text?
Pretty bad, huh? :unsure:

#72 tzuchan

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Posted 16 March 2005 - 11:00 PM

"Recruits, please remember, pizza is not delivered by big, fast spinning flying saucers"

"Oh, so what do we do when we see one of them doing a delivery run?"
"Shoot it down!"
"But won't that mean that we're shooting down our own supplies?"
:Brickwall:
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#73 dan2

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Posted 16 March 2005 - 11:24 PM

"Recruits, please remember, pizza is not delivered by big, fast spinning flying saucers"

"Oh, so what do we do when we see one of them doing a delivery run?"
"Shoot it down!"
"But won't that mean that we're shooting down our own supplies?"
:Brickwall:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's cute, I like it.
May I include it in the text?

#74 tzuchan

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 01:06 AM

Feel free to do so.
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#75 Penta

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 05:41 AM

That explains it. What do you think of my text?
Pretty bad, huh? :unsure:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Actually, no, it was great.

#76 Guest_Azrael_*

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 07:08 AM

Should our activities be efficient enough to draw attention from any UFO, it would be likely that our bases would become prime targets for Alien investigations or retaliatory strikes. It might be wise for us to implement active measures in order to defend our bases from aerial Alien assaults. Unfortunately, because of our current lack of knowledge of Alien UFO speed and armor capabilities, our engineers recommend construction of multiple [Missile Defense Array] to improve our ability to repel such assaults.

I think it should be "draw attention from the Aliens" not a single UFO, since X-Corps activities actually draw the attention from all the Aliens, there's when they send an UFO or a swarm of them.
Also, the last bit, I wouldn't say that we lack knowledge on them, because later in the game you are going to find out (or maybe not), but still. And I'd cut the recommendation part, I don't like Xnet entries making recommendations, each player must decide his/her own strategy, don't cut it completely, just say that having more than one would allow more blasts before the thing lands and improve the chances of hitting.

Inside the control room, our defensive operators can remotely adjust missile trajectories when tracking devices are unable to lock onto difficult targets due to excessive speeds or unusual emissions spectra. Microwave radar signals are continually analyzed by photomolecular supercomputers, enabling fast access to vital information about the target- its shape, size, and velocity- all with a precision of mere centimeters, giving our defenses a significant boost in accuracy.

I'd be a little more descriptive on the facility, check http://www.projectxe.../assetlist.html.
Also, why can the facility shoot only once?

"Recruits, please remember, pizza is not delivered by big, fast spinning flying saucers"

I like this quote, but seems somewhat similar to the one in Base Access Facility, I like both, but the pizza thing seems something repetitive.

One last thing, when names are voted, the [] are no longer necessary, the name is final.

#77 Astyanax

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 10:06 AM

Just to clarify, the names that are final can be found pinned in Active here.

Hm, maybe instead of pizza, a good fluff might involve some base memorandum forbidding playing frisbee (due to their "resemblance" to UFOs) near the base perimeter due to minor software glitches in the missile facility?
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#78 dan2

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 11:07 AM

1)I think it should be "draw attention from the Aliens" not a single UFO, since X-Corps activities actually draw the attention from all the Aliens, there's when they send an UFO or a swarm of them.
2)Also, the last bit, I wouldn't say that we lack knowledge on them, because later in the game you are going to find out (or maybe not), but still. And I'd cut the recommendation part, I don't like Xnet entries making recommendations, each player must decide his/her own strategy, don't cut it completely, just say that having more than one would allow more blasts before the thing lands and improve the chances of hitting.
3)I'd be a little more descriptive on the facility, check http://www.projectxe.../assetlist.html.
4)Also, why can the facility shoot only once?
5)I like this quote, but seems somewhat similar to the one in Base Access Facility, I like both, but the pizza thing seems something repetitive.
6)One last thing, when names are voted, the [] are no longer necessary, the name is final.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1)If I remember correctly, after a failed assault, another UFO scout have to find your base in order to be assaulted again. It seems logical the information is not transfered toward all aliens, so I said specific UFOs are the ones noticing the base and trying to anihilate it, not the whole Alien kind. I need more input on this from everybody.
2)This is an old issue and no matter what I decide, some people will be against it. Some people say we know a bit about aliens, while others say X-Corps was initiated to investigate, without any knowledge yet of anything. Unless this is decided for everybody to agree, I'm not sure I can do much here.
3)I guess I forgot the opening roof, steel blast door(for the pizza man to knock on?) and the test area (I'm not sure for what is this test area for :blink: I hope they don't try to fire inside the building, do they? Test areas belong to laboratories, they have the best equipment for this anyway). I don't think mentioning 8 missiles on each rack is relevant, they're loaded automatically. The rest will be added.
4)Here's a misunderstanding. They don't fire only once. They fire continuosly, but the results of the assault are judged stepwise. In a given time the Missile Defense Array is able to deliver 200 amount of damage with a probability of 50%. After the time passes, if the UFO is not destroyed, it begins it's assault. I know, it's simplified, but nobody implied they fire only once, they fire as long as they see the target. If they're lucky, they deliver 200. If not, it's 0. Too simplified, I know
5)I though about it, it seemed funny to me. Pizza and saucers coming fast. If it's repetitive, I'll remove it. There's a thread for fluffs, I can pick something from there
6)Yes, they'll be removed

#79 dan2

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 01:06 PM

I tried to adress the issues as much as I can :Coffee:

MISSILE DEFENSE ARRAY
X-Net://Pegasus.net/Base Facilities/Missile Defense Array

The threat of an Alien assault on an X-Corps base has always been a concern despite the fact that they are constructed deep underground and designed to withstand an extended bombardment. X-Corps engineers improved on existing missile defense technologies to bring about the advanced, more efficient Missile Defense Array based on the veteran ‘Rapier’ SAM system.

Should our activities be efficient enough to draw attention from any scouting UFO, it would be likely that our bases would become prime targets for Alien investigations or retaliatory strikes. It might be wise for us to implement active measures in order to defend our bases from aerial Alien assaults. Unfortunately, because of our current lack of knowledge of Alien UFO speed and armor capabilities, constructing multiple Missile Defense Arrays might improve our ability to repel such assaults.

The Missile Defense Array, carefully designed for X-Corps, is based on extremely effective SAM systems currently used by major world military organizations. The facility is build on a square area with the length of 15 meters and it contains a control room connected to an accurate, though very short-range, microwave radar, revolutionary rotary mountings, each containing 8 ready-to-launch 'Rapier' missiles, and storage for a generous supply of missiles delivered through an automatic loading system. In case of an emerging assault, the roof can quickly slide to allow the lifting of the rotary mountings, which start to lock on the incoming targets.

Inside the control room, protected by steel blast doors, our defensive operators can remotely adjust missile trajectories when tracking devices are unable to lock onto difficult targets due to excessive speeds or unusual emissions spectra. Microwave radar signals are continually analyzed by photomolecular supercomputers, enabling fast access to vital information about the target- its shape, size, and velocity- all with a precision of mere centimeters, giving our defenses a significant boost in accuracy.

While Missile Defense Array design may be improved later with more complex technology, this facility may be a good start toward an active defense against any assaulting enemy.

"I'm sorry, miss, but Grinch stole my fluff" cried Suzy when ask for her homework



#80 dipstick

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 02:31 PM

Good text.

How about for fluff:

'Hubcaps are NOT to be used to test the accuracy of the Missile Defense Array'

Captain of the X-Corps Base where the MDF was trialled
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#81 dan2

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 02:53 PM

For fluff, how about this:
"Under no circumstances real 'Rapier' missiles should be tested in the Missile Defense Array test area" said Cpt. Mcmurry to the recruits clearing the 50 dead bodies of the scientists working in the adjacent laboratory.

Too cruel or is it in the spirit of fluffs?

Edited by dan2, 17 March 2005 - 03:34 PM.


#82 Mad

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 05:09 PM

Fluff:

"Rocket jets are not for rapid meal preparation!"

Note at missile defense array

Edited by Mad, 17 March 2005 - 05:12 PM.

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 06:16 PM

1)If I remember correctly, after a failed assault, another UFO scout have to find your base in order to be assaulted again. It seems logical the information is not transfered toward all aliens, so I said specific UFOs are the ones noticing the base and trying to anihilate it, not the whole Alien kind. I need more input on this from everybody.

You are right about this... this is an old discussion, as this whole aspect of the game is rather illogical, let me think about it...

2)This is an old issue and no matter what I decide, some people will be against it. Some people say we know a bit about aliens, while others say X-Corps was initiated to investigate, without any knowledge yet of anything. Unless this is decided for everybody to agree, I'm not sure I can do much here.

I didn't mean that, I meant that later in the game, you will have some knowledge on the Aliens, so I'd rather try to keep all texts have some real meaning through all the game! (that's why we deleted all references like "the new laser pistol is the strongest weapon we have" as later in the game this will not be true, though it will most likely be when the player researches this)

4)Here's a misunderstanding. They don't fire only once. They fire continuosly, but the results of the assault are judged stepwise. In a given time the Missile Defense Array is able to deliver 200 amount of damage with a probability of 50%. After the time passes, if the UFO is not destroyed, it begins it's assault. I know, it's simplified, but nobody implied they fire only once, they fire as long as they see the target. If they're lucky, they deliver 200. If not, it's 0. Too simplified, I know

I think to remember in X-Com 1 during base assaults that they did fire once, I'll check.

5)I though about it, it seemed funny to me. Pizza and saucers coming fast. If it's repetitive, I'll remove it. There's a thread for fluffs, I can pick something from there

It is funny, I loved it, maybe you can talk to the writer of the other text and work something out.

#84 tzuchan

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 08:09 PM

"...Flight 372 was shot down by unknown terrorist groups today. So far there has been no reports of any survivors. Witnesses say that a missle struck the plane, but so far we have been unable to contact any witnesses for clarification and confirmation..."
- Excerpt from news report
"Section Chiefs are to ensure that all defensive systems are set to standby before initiating any base invasion drills."
- Excerpt from memo regarding Incident 372
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#85 dan2

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 08:34 PM

Now I'm a bit puzzled, how to chose only one fluff without offending the others?
I guess I'll have to let the text without a fluff for now, which can be added later, maybe by the proofreading team.
Is the text close to completion or it still needs a lot of work?

#86 dan2

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 11:40 PM

1)I didn't mean that, I meant that later in the game, you will have some knowledge on the Aliens, so I'd rather try to keep all texts have some real meaning through all the game! (that's why we deleted all references like "the new laser pistol is the strongest weapon we have" as later in the game this will not be true, though it will most likely be when the player researches this)
2)I think to remember in X-Com 1 during base assaults that they did fire once, I'll check.
3)It is funny, I loved it, maybe you can talk to the writer of the other text and work something out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1)I'm not sure I understand here. The text is not written to contradict later texts, is it? Is not saying is the best protection ever, when probably the Fusion Cannon Array will be. Could you point out the parts in the text that will become unfit later in the game, when new technologies will be discovered? If you do, I'll be glad to change them
2)The facility probably fires many rockets, just their effect is considered only once in a black-or-white manner, 200 or nothing. This is how I see it, but I might be wrong
3)Well, he did it first. And I see already people proposed so many other fluffs (thank you :) ) that I'm not even sure which one to choose. Which one you find the funniest and also fit for the text?

#87 dipstick

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Posted 18 March 2005 - 05:15 AM

"...Flight 372 was shot down by unknown terrorist groups today. So far there has been no reports of any survivors. Witnesses say that a missle struck the plane, but so far we have been unable to contact any witnesses for clarification and confirmation..."
- Excerpt from news report
"Section Chiefs are to ensure that all defensive systems are set to standby before initiating any base invasion drills."
- Excerpt from memo regarding Incident 372

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



I think this is the best fluff so far!! LOL
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#88 Guest_Azrael_*

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Posted 18 March 2005 - 05:36 AM

"...Flight 372 was shot down by unknown terrorist groups today. So far there has been no reports of any survivors. Witnesses say that a missle struck the plane, but so far we have been unable to contact any witnesses for clarification and confirmation..."
- Excerpt from news report
"Section Chiefs are to ensure that all defensive systems are set to standby before initiating any base invasion drills."
- Excerpt from memo regarding Incident 372

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

:laugh:

1)I'm not sure I understand here. The text is not written to contradict later texts, is it? Is not saying is the best protection ever, when probably the Fusion Cannon Array will be. Could you point out the parts in the text that will become unfit later in the game, when new technologies will be discovered? If you do, I'll be glad to change them

This bit: "Unfortunately, because of our current lack of knowledge of Alien UFO speed and armor capabilities, constructing multiple Missile Defense Arrays might improve our ability to repel such assaults."
Also, now that I closely look at it, it's wrong the whole phrase, it's meaning actually is "unfortunately, constructing multiple MDAs might help improve our ability to repel such attacks, because..." Do you see it?, I suggest changing it into something like:"Unfortunately, our limited knowledge of Alien UFO speed and armor capabilities do not allow us to effectively counter the possibility of an Alien attack on our base, the construction of multiple Missile Defense Arrays, however, might improve our ability to repel such assaults"

2)The facility probably fires many rockets, just their effect is considered only once in a black-or-white manner, 200 or nothing. This is how I see it, but I might be wrong

I don't know, we've been using in the other defenses that they fire only once...still not sure about that, I know it seems illogical that they fire only once.

3)Well, he did it first. And I see already people proposed so many other fluffs (thank you  :)  ) that I'm not even sure which one to choose. Which one you find the funniest and also fit for the text?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just pick the one that you like the most :)

#89 dan2

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Posted 18 March 2005 - 06:49 AM

This bit: "Unfortunately, because of our current lack of knowledge of Alien UFO speed and armor capabilities, constructing multiple Missile Defense Arrays might improve our ability to repel such assaults."
Also, now that I closely look at it, it's wrong the whole phrase, it's meaning actually is "unfortunately, constructing multiple MDAs might help improve our ability to repel such attacks, because..." Do you see it?, I suggest changing it into something like:"Unfortunately, our limited knowledge of Alien UFO speed and armor capabilities do not allow us to effectively counter the possibility of an Alien attack on our base, the construction of multiple Missile Defense Arrays, however, might improve our ability to repel such assaults"

I don't know, we've been using in the other defenses that they fire only once...still not sure about that, I know it seems illogical that they fire only once.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This makes perfect sense, yes, I'll change it.

About the second, I'm told they are 8 missiles on the rack. And there are 2 racks. I think they're all launched and together, all 16 missiles have a relative defensive value of 200.
I guess its not really required to say how many missiles leave the racks in one attack, is it?
Or maybe they're fired one at a time from each rack, 100 damage from each missile if they're positioned and locked correctly on target.
I like this second choice.
If there is a bombardament shield facility, two more rockets are launched, probably.
:blink:

Edited by dan2, 18 March 2005 - 07:01 AM.


#90 dan2

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Posted 18 March 2005 - 06:59 AM

"A few chages. Please, leave your helpful comment after the beep"

MISSILE DEFENSE ARRAY
X-Net://Pegasus.net/Base Facilities/Missile Defense Array

The threat of an Alien assault on an X-Corps base has always been a concern despite the fact that they are constructed deep underground and designed to withstand an extended bombardment. X-Corps engineers improved on existing missile defense technologies to bring about the advanced, more efficient Missile Defense Array based on the veteran ‘Rapier’ SAM system. The Missile Defense Array is relatively fast to construct, cheap to install and maintain and provide some security against an alien invasion.

Should our presence be active enough to draw attention from any scouting UFO, it would be likely that our bases would become prime targets for Alien investigations or retaliatory strikes. While Missile Defense Array is the first facility to be employed in our active defense strategy, unfortunately, our limited knowledge of Alien UFO speed and armor capabilities do not allow us to effectively estimate the possibility of an succesful Alien attack on our bases. However, the construction of multiple Missile Defense Arrays might improve our ability to repel such assaults.

The Missile Defense Array, carefully designed for X-Corps, is based on extremely effective SAM systems currently used by major world military organizations. The facility is build on a square area with the length of 15 meters and it contains a control room connected to an accurate, though very short-range, microwave radar, two revolutionary rotary mountings, each containing 8 ready-to-launch 'Rapier' missiles, and storage for a generous supply of missiles delivered through an automatic loading system.

In case of an emerging assault, the roof can quickly slide to allow lifting of the rotary mountings, which start to lock on the incoming targets. Inside the control room, protected by steel blast doors, our defensive operators can remotely assist by adjusting the missile trajectories when the tracking devices alone are unable to lock onto difficult targets due to excessive speeds or unusual emissions spectra. Microwave radar signals are continually analyzed by photomolecular supercomputers, enabling fast access to vital information about the target- its shape, size, and velocity- all with a precision of mere centimeters, giving our defenses a significant boost in accuracy.

While Missile Defense Array design may be improved later with more complex technology, this facility may be a good start toward an active defense against any assaulting enemy and provides increased morale by instilling a relative sense of security among the people inhabiting the base.

"...Flight 372 was shot down by unknown terrorist groups today. So far there has been no reports of any survivors. Missile fragments were found at the crash site, but so far we have been unable to contact any witnesses for clarification and confirmation..."
- Excerpt from news report
"Section Chiefs are to ensure that all defensive systems are set to standby before initiating any base invasion drills."
- Excerpt from memo regarding Incident 372


Edited by dan2, 19 March 2005 - 12:25 AM.


#91 dan2

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Posted 19 March 2005 - 12:44 AM

"...Flight 372 was shot down by unknown terrorist groups today. So far there has been no reports of any survivors. Witnesses say that a missle struck the plane, but so far we have been unable to contact any witnesses for clarification and confirmation..."
- Excerpt from news report
"Section Chiefs are to ensure that all defensive systems are set to standby before initiating any base invasion drills."
- Excerpt from memo regarding Incident 372

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I received many positive comments on your fluff, I think is very funny, too, so I included. Thank you for it. I took the liberty of modifying the double "witnesses" occurence, but please, let me know if I didn't do it right.

And by the way....please.....BEEEEEP

#92 kafros

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Posted 19 March 2005 - 03:02 AM

Heheheee, that's what I call progress :banana:
Nice fluff there! (Clever one :))

Well, I think I don't anything to add. Let's see what the proofreading gurus think about it :master: :P :laugh:

#93 tzuchan

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Posted 19 March 2005 - 12:42 PM

Glad to be of service. I noticed you replace the 'i' that I ate from the missile(I don't know why, but I have a strange tendency of doing that :P )

Onwards with the buzzsaw :chainsaw: :
Green for comments
Blue for inserted text/suggested replacements
Red for Recommended deletions/has suggested replacements
MISSILE DEFENSE ARRAY
X-Net://Pegasus.net/Base Facilities/Missile Defense Array

The threat of an Alien assault on an X-Corps base has always been a concern despite the fact that they are constructed deep underground and designed to withstand an extended bombardment. Somehow the sentence doesn't read right... Maybe if you kind of reverse the cause and effect like so:Despite the fact that X-Corps bases are constructed deep underground and designed to withstand extended bombardment, the threat of an Alien assault is a constant threat. X-Corps engineers have improved on existing missile defense technologies to bring about the advanced, more efficient Missile Defense Array based on the veteran ‘Rapier’ SAM system. The Missile Defense Array is relatively fast to construct, cheap to install and maintain and provide some security against an alien invasion.

Should our presence be active enough to draw attention from any scouting UFO, it would be likely that our bases would become prime targets for Alien investigations or retaliatory strikes.For the time being, the only time any kind of base defences are brought into play is when a Battleship class UFO attempts to land... Recon UFOs are ignored, so...Should X-Corps activity present an active threat to the Alien's success, it is likely that the Aliens will attempt a base assault in the event that their scouts manage to uncover the location of a X-Corps base.Transition needed from previous sentence to next sentence, but can't think of any. Feels too abrupt a topic change. While Missile Defense Array is the first facility to be employed in our active defense strategy, unfortunately, our limited knowledge of Alien UFO speed and armor capabilities do not allow us to effectively estimate the possibility of an succesful Alien attack on our bases. However, the construction of multiple Missile Defense Arrays might improve our ability to repel such assaults.

The Missile Defense Array, carefully designed for X-Corps, is based on extremely effective SAM systems currently used by major world military organizations. The facility is build on a square area with the length of 15 meters and it contains a control room connected to an accurate, though very short-range, microwave radar, two revolutionary rotary mountings, each containing 8 ready-to-launch 'Rapier' missiles, and storage for a generous supply of missiles delivered through an automatic loading system.

In case of an emerging impending assault, the roof can will quickly slide back to allow lifting of the rotary mountings what do you mean by "rotary mountings"?, which start to lock on the incoming targets. Inside the control room, protected by steel blast doors, our defensive operators can remotely assist by adjusting the missile trajectories when the tracking devices alone are unable to lock onto difficult targets due to excessive speeds or unusual emissions spectra. Microwave radar signals are continually analyzed by photomolecular supercomputers, enabling fast access to vital information about the target- its shape, size, and velocity- all with a precision of mere centimeters, giving our defenses a significant boost in accuracy.

While Missile Defense Array design may be improved later with more complex technology, this facility may be a good start toward an active defense against any assaulting enemy and provides increased morale by instilling a relative sense of security among the people inhabiting the base.

"...Flight 372 was shot down by unknown terrorist groups today. So far there has been no reports of any survivors. Missile fragments were found at the crash site, but so far we have been unable to contact any witnesses for clarification and confirmation..."
- Excerpt from news report
"Section Chiefs are to ensure that all defensive systems are set to standby before initiating any base invasion drills."
- Excerpt from memo regarding Incident 372

Well, here's my first try at Asty style multicolor saw marks...

(P/s: Did anyone notice that I implied that the witnesses disappeared with assistance from MiBs?)

Edited by tzuchan, 19 March 2005 - 03:36 PM.

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#94 dan2

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Posted 20 March 2005 - 11:54 PM

Thanks to Tzuchan who pointed out some places for improvement. So here's another version.

MISSILE DEFENSE ARRAY
X-Net://Pegasus.net/Base Facilities/Missile Defense Array

X-Corps bases are constructed deep underground and designed to withstand an extended bombardment, but despite this fact, their vulnerability to an Alien assault has always been a major concern. Should our presence be active enough to be discovered by any scouting UFO, it would be likely that our bases would become prime targets for Alien retaliatory strikes.

X-Corps engineers have improved on existing missile defense technologies to bring about the advanced Missile Defense Array based on the veteran ‘Rapier’ SAM system, currently used by major world military organizations. While Missile Defense Array is the first facility to be employed in our active defense strategy, unfortunately, our initial knowledge of Alien UFO speed and armor capabilities do not allow us to effectively estimate the possibility of an succesful Alien attack on our bases. Thus, increasing the number of defensive weapons through construction of multiple defense facilites can improve our ability to repel such assaults.

The Missile Defense Array is relatively fast to construct, cheap to install and maintain and provides some security against an alien invasion. The facility is build on a square area with the length of 15 meters and it contains a control room connected to an accurate, though very short-range, microwave radar, two rotatory missile racks, each containing 8 ready-to-launch 'Rapier' missiles, and storage for a generous supply of missiles delivered through an automatic loading system.

In case of an impending assault, the roof quickly slides back to allow lifting of the rotatory racks, which start to lock on the incoming targets. Inside the control room, protected by steel blast doors, our defensive operators can remotely assist by adjusting the missile trajectories when the tracking devices alone are unable to lock onto difficult targets due to excessive speeds or unusual emissions spectra. Microwave radar signals are continually analyzed by photomolecular supercomputers, enabling fast access to vital information about the target- its shape, size, and velocity- all with a precision of mere centimeters, giving our defenses a significant boost in accuracy.

While Missile Defense Array design may be improved later with more complex technology, this facility is a good start toward an active defense against any assaulting enemy and provides increased morale by instilling a relative sense of security among the people inhabiting the base.

"...Flight 372 was shot down by unknown terrorist groups today. So far there has been no reports of any survivors. Missile fragments were found at the crash site, but so far we have been unable to contact any witnesses for clarification and confirmation..."
- Excerpt from news report
"Section Chiefs are to ensure that all defensive systems are set to standby before initiating any base invasion drills."
- Excerpt from memo regarding Incident 372


Edited by dan2, 21 March 2005 - 02:36 PM.


#95 Exo2000

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Posted 21 March 2005 - 04:23 AM

So far so good. I'd also add a little fluff about frisbees or hubcaps myself, but that's just me.

As far as the original X-COM is concerned, yes, the defenses only fired once. With a Grav Shield, they fired twice.

And even after a failed base assault (if they landed) aliens can still come after you.. still, I think I need to start blasting down those ruddy med/large scouts that nose around my base.
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#96 Kikanaide

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Posted 21 March 2005 - 08:08 AM

If you wanted, you could explain the all-or-nothing part with something like "because of the projected speed of assault, one rotary turret will fire all eight missiles simultaneously. If the target survives and is still far enough away, the second turret will fire..."

Or something. Or you could just not mention it, which would probably be fine.

Looks nice, reads well, good work.
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#97 dan2

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Posted 21 March 2005 - 10:51 AM

And even after a failed base assault (if they landed) aliens can still come after you.. still, I think I need to start blasting down those ruddy med/large scouts that nose around my base.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Aaaaa... :huh?: ...if they land, the assault is succesful, not failed. If you have three P.W.T. Defences (power=3600) against an alien Dreadnaught (hull strength=3400), and they all succesfully hit, there's no battle, and that's a failed assault. You would need 17 Torpedo Defences for the same effect, and all must hit, which will never happen. That's why Torpedo Defences are pretty useless

@Kikanaide: How would you know from the begining the fact that the Aliens use their strogest ship to assault? Since I shot all their scouts, in my first game I didn't even know what the defences are good for.
About all rockets at once, I don't know, they can be fired fast, but it doesn't seem very safe to launch all of them at the same time. And why the second turet would not fire at all in the meantime?
I think the problem can be addressed once in the "Alien Retaliation" topic, when speeds can be fully determined, and the whole assault explained in succesive events.
BTW: is it "Defenses" or "Defences"? I looked in TFTD USOpedia and I got confused
Thanks for your kind words :)

Edited by dan2, 21 March 2005 - 10:52 AM.


#98 Exo2000

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Posted 22 March 2005 - 04:46 AM

It's either, but "Defenses" is more oftenly (that a word? doubt it!) used.

Most people use Defense over Defence, too.

:)

Also, take in mind if you have a Grav/Repulsor shield, your defense strength is doubled (so you need 1/2 the number of defenses to defend). I've had Battleships go down from 3 Laser Blasts, 4 and even 6, so damage is not always 100%, sometimes it's 50%, but never as low as, say, 1%.

Edited by Exo2000, 22 March 2005 - 04:47 AM.

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#99 mikker

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Posted 22 March 2005 - 04:48 AM

-- sorry.

Edited by mikker, 22 March 2005 - 04:55 AM.

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#100 Exo2000

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Posted 22 March 2005 - 04:51 AM

Defence kinda sounds like taking people's fences though. *shrug*

:Coffee:
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