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#1 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 18 July 2003 - 09:39 AM

I was thinking that if your guys (and aliens too) can become so powerful mentally that they can actually control another sentient organism's mind that they could do a little more with their mind.

For example: Pyrokenisis- roughly the same as a hc incindiary round but a bit more powerful, and uses psi energy (if implemented) Another one would be telekenisis which would let your guy pick up and move objects such as aliens, hitting them against walls. Another one would be "psi-sight" or "psi-sense" or something like that which would make all organic aliens on the screen glow bright even through walls. How about a blast of mental energy that would stun a psi-gifted target for a couple of turns? There is so much you can do with psi that the only limit is your mind...

Oh by the way, all of these powers should be useable by the aliens too! :LOL:
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#2 dipstick

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Posted 18 July 2003 - 09:40 AM

Hmmm, maybe just humans - after a lot of research!??
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#3 Rwn

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Posted 18 July 2003 - 09:46 AM

Why not just a very simple power which allows you to know how many living creatures (not including the stunned ones) are remaining in the area? And, at a higher level, which lets you know the nature of these "minds" (sectoids, civilians, X-COM soldiers...) ?

#4 j'ordos

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Posted 18 July 2003 - 10:18 AM

If you let those powers only be available to the humans, that's just screaming "unbalanced!" IMHO
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#5 miceless

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 10:14 AM

How about a power to mentally kill the entire alien species? Problem solved. :D
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#6 GreatGold

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 01:56 PM

Till a trigger in MY brain thinks FAG,

I'm assuming thats some british english lexicon thing.. right?

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#7 dipstick

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 02:05 PM

its slang, I believe. anyway, having just us with advanced psi powers would be great - don't you think the etherals do enough damage as it is???!! Otherwise, a squad of them eg a battleship could easily wipe the floor with us! Imagine if these advanced psi powers take a huge amount of power to use and maintain - cue the advanced psychic conductor!! :D
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#8 j'ordos

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 02:09 PM

But doesn't an experienced squad with only one psi-guy in Xcom1 wipe the floor with an entire battleship of Ethereals already?
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#9 GreatGold

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 02:13 PM

I'd say it depends on what level you play. Beginner to Veteran, yes. Genious to Superhuman, no. That said though, I don't think we should really change psi that much, its not the focus of the game. The focus is tactical squad based combat. Not that I wouldnt mind seeing a modf in that direction, could be very interesting...

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#10 dipstick

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 02:14 PM

I cannot answer that - I have never really played it - but IMHO at the end of a game you should be superior to ALL the aliens - then you are ready for a final battle. That is just what I think!
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#11 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 02:17 PM

Till a trigger in MY brain thinks FAG,

I'm assuming thats some british english lexicon thing.. right?

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LOL, I thought fag meant ciggerette everywhere, wow learn something everyday. I spose that could have looked bad 4 ppl who didn't know that :o

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 02:20 PM

Oh yeah, my opinion, whoops I keep draggin things off topic don't I?

I say more options 4 Psi, but make it a lot harder 2 pull of coz IMO Psi was stupidly unbalanced. I think a few others agree with me (...right?? :sorry: )

Edited by Jim69, 19 July 2003 - 06:11 PM.


#13 j'ordos

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 02:26 PM

If it comforts you, I agree with you :D
Now you explained the fag to me I think it's safe to post this... ^_^
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#14 dipstick

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 02:26 PM

EXACTLY what I was thinking!

umm, this is to Jim69 btw!

Edited by dipstick, 19 July 2003 - 02:27 PM.

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#15 GreatGold

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 02:33 PM

Yeah, dont cry, I'm in agreement too. You could really whoop donkey with Psi by the end of a game usually. The thing is, on the higher levels, you dont usually get a chance to even get Psi till your reguarly mixin it up with Ethereals. So that definately balances it, cause your're taking some heavy loss's for a minimum of two months, usually more - before even breaking even. Then a few months after that, things are back to normal, and your're whooping more donkey :P .

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#16 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 03:15 PM

Well, I think that the more potent psi powers should be very taxing on the unit in question (psi energy if implemented, energy and morale otherwise) It should be difficult for even etherials to control an unwilling human's mind. And for humans to control a etherial should be extremely difficult.


Anyway, here's some more psi power ideas: Psi Shield- would form a protective bubble around an agent, has a radius of 3 squares and can asorb 2-3 heavy plasma blasts before dissipating, but would leave the unit who made it stunned for 2 turns. Psi blade- By focusing it's mental energy, psionically gifted units may form a blade of mental energy that does 60? damage to non psi units like mutons and normal humans but does 200 (tons) of damage to psi units like etherials and sectoid leaders (due to psychic backlash.) If this is combined with some sort of stealth psi-assasin it could give the aliens an edge against your psykers.

Oh yeah, the psi blade would pierce armor.

Edited by Cpl. Facehugger, 19 July 2003 - 06:01 PM.

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#17 dipstick

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 03:42 PM

Great stuff - keep it coming!
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#18 ApOcaLyPSe_1985

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 05:16 PM

ok, was to lazy to read the rest of the posts, but here's mine:

psionic confusion <= you know, seeing things :) maybe shoot teammates
psionic illness <= soldier think's he's sick, and one of his skills fail
psionic persuasion <= soldier is on your side for a period of time and fights with his own AI, unlike mindcontrol where the user has to concentrate on the target all time, thus rendering him vulnerable
psionic bombardment <= damage users psionic energy pool
psionic tremble <= lowers accuracy
psionic exploration <= mind control a hostile unit and reveal his field of vision
psionic nighteye <= use psionics to enhance your vision in nighttimes
psionic target <= you will get a accuracy boost only on THAT unit
psionic lure <= psionicly alter someones mind to attract them to you, like luring him out of that hard to hit spot
psionic paralysation <= yep, paralysis
psionic amplifier <= one soldier will act as a amplifier within a certain radius
psionic defense <= temp. boost your psi defense
psionic strength <= temp. boost strenght
psionic boost for all skills <= you get the idea

Edited by ApOcaLyPSe_1985, 19 July 2003 - 05:21 PM.


#19 Kexpakki

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 05:56 PM

Psionic Blindness: Temporalely takes away his sight
Psionic Reflection: You can reflect enemy grenades so they bounce away from you(or you could just add that into Telikenisie(sp?) where you could just throw the grenade back at them :D )
Psionic Invisibility: You can make yourself invisible to 1 or many enemy units. Basicly like the "Somone Elses Problom" in the Hitchikers guid where you basicly just get them to ignore what they see

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 06:15 PM

Psi blade- By focusing it's mental energy, psionically gifted units may form a blade of mental energy that does 60? damage to non psi units like mutons and normal humans but does 200 (tons) of damage to psi units like etherials and sectoid leaders (due to psychic backlash.) If this is combined with some sort of stealth psi-assasin it could give the aliens an edge against your psykers.

Oh yeah, the psi blade would pierce armor.

Damn, the influence from Blizzards games is sure gonna impress them :D

#21 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 06:26 PM

Blizzard Game? Which one? Warcraft, Starcraft, Diablo?,

Wait a second, it was starcraft wasn't it! Damn protoss stealing my ideas :D
I havn't played starcraft for a while, so I didn't think of it right away

Anyways, heres some more powers: Psi Terror- causes an intense xeno (or human) phobia that causes the victim to freeze from terror, curl up into a little ball, and probably wet themselves. The effect would last for 2-4 turns.
Psi Despair (working title)- Causes the target to feel suicidal. Results in the unit in question (needs weapon, will fizzle otherwise) taking his gun and blowing his own brains out. Only rookies and alien soldiers would be vlunerable to this attack, human officers and alien officers would be nearly immune, unless a uber psi skill 200 unit attempts this attack.
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#22 GreatGold

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 06:39 PM

Blizzard Game? Which one? Warcraft, Starcraft, Diablo?,

Wait a second, it was starcraft wasn't it! Damn protoss stealing my ideas 
I havn't played starcraft for a while, so I didn't think of it right away

Oh man, dont utter their name here. After what they did to FreeCraft (perhaps rightously, perhaps not). Wouldn't want to jinx us is all...

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#23 warhamster

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 06:54 PM

Psionic Blindness: Temporalely takes away his sight

I think that's called love.

As for other psi powers, why not just refine what already exsists? I mean instead of just panic unit, put bersersk unit - unit goes berserk. confuse unit - unit sits doing nothing. panic unit - unit drops weapon and runs. and how about something more simple like, psi purge - releases ally from alien mind control.

While we have some very interesting ideas on psi, it's like dancing on your proverbial landmine since it can very much unbalance the game.

#24 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 07:31 PM

Yes, thats why we need to make it so only powerful (near endgame psykers and etherial leaders) could use the highest tier psi abilities. Also, resistance would be based on more than just psi defense. I think that higher ranked, happy (high morale) and units near a commanding officer would be more resistant to almost any kind of psi. Oh and psi resistance would be for all of the psi powers.

And Finally, one last psi power before I go to bed: Psi combustion-would essientially cause a unit to spontaneously combust, instantly killing unarmored units with weak psi resistance. Once again, only powerful psionic entities would be able to use this ability.

Good Night all, if you can think of any new powers, or any ways to balance these powers, please post them!
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#25 Cpt. Boxershorts

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 09:57 PM

ANother limit on it could be requiring further research. For instance, to make the higher psi abilities availble, you have to capture an ethereal commander, and then build an advanced psi training center or something.

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#26 dipstick

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Posted 20 July 2003 - 02:17 AM

GREAT stuff!
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#27 j'ordos

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Posted 20 July 2003 - 03:13 AM

Hmm... let's see...
Kinetic Redirection: move items from a distance, like the weapon an opponent is wielding, or an extra ammo clip on the ground, or a medikit,... to any direction you want (perhaps even open door).
Psi Storm, seeing as we're going Starcraft :D , unleash an electric storm over an area of the battlescape damaging everything being there, including your own men.
Burnout (idem :D ), damages a psi-unit: one HP for every point of Psi energy
Confusion: makes target wander a random direction, shooting everyone in sight (including own men).
Levitation: obvious
Feather: if falling down a building will cause injuries, makes one fall down slowly, preventing harm
Slow: increases target's TU cost for every action, and/or reduces reactions
Haste: opposite
Maybe on top of the advanced lab, you need a very high psi strenght before even being able to try one of the more powerful ones, not to mention psi-energy costs.

This just might be getting out of hand here, why use anything else but Psi? :wink:
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#28 Jesus Escariut

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Posted 20 July 2003 - 04:19 AM

this sounds like a crazy battle of the brains... how bout we make the aliens sit down and play scrabble? or how bout a spelling B :D ... but seriously, i think it would be neat, though i think the aliens should have more powers then humans, i mean the odds are already stacked in out favor if you think about it, since when could aliens save and reload their game? :wink:

*IDEA!*

LOL lets let the aliens have the ability to save and reload

3am playing xcom
base under attack
*ufo destroyed*
*game flashes*
base under attack
*ufo destroyed*
*game flashes*
base under attack
*ufo hit*
*ufo lands*

8 hours later you lose the game ^_^

#29 j'ordos

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Posted 20 July 2003 - 04:21 AM

Make saving dependant on difficulty: superhuman: no saving in tactical mission, while as beginner: unlimited saving in tactical mission ^_^
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#30 Rwn

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Posted 20 July 2003 - 06:37 AM

I disagree with this: if some people enjoy to reload after one soldier is hit, why couldn't they have fun in superhuman mode? But I know from roguelike experience that if nothing is done about that, very few people will actually have the willpower to play "hardcore" during the whole game, without even reloading once (see I can't remember which poll about this).

So, why can't there be a feature like this: when you start a new game, an option menu a la Civilisation 2 is displayed (including, for example, the langage selection, or the way ammos are handled after a mission) with a checkbox "hardcore", checked by default (except in beginner mode) to show that it's the "normal" way to play the game, and which would disable any save, except when quitting (which would save automatically). The savegame being deleted when you reload your game, you can't reload a previous game when something goes wrong, but if you have to quit in the middle of a mission, you can do it safely.

There's one major drawback with this method: if the game crashes, your whole game is lost. In order to avoid this, there must be a security: for example, a temp. save is created regularly every month or on the first turn of a tactical mission, but you can't load it, except if the game wasn't closed properly. This can be achieved by deleting/overwriting the temp. save when quitting the game: if you launch the game after this, you'll get your new savegame, but if your computer crashed, the temp. save won't have been deleted, thus if you'll load this temp. save.

Of course there are ways to cheat the game: you can regularly copy your save directory, or even turn your computer down in the middle of a mission to reload the temp. save. But this would be so annoying that I expect few people doing this...

And finally, why would people want to use this feature? Well, mainly to brag, I assume, but if some "secret" pictures/stories/easter eggs (but *nothing* related to the gameplay, like new weapons or new missions) could be added at the end of a successful game, it would be a plus...

Well, this was just a point of view from a roguelike-addict, but I think it fits very well to this kind of game.

#31 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 20 July 2003 - 06:58 AM

Well, u would go thru all this trouble of temp saves and the like, then a soldier dies they will just Crtl+Alt+Del out. Even if u put a msg box saying "Please use exit button" then ppl use crtl+alt+del with the dialog comes up. The comp then thinks that it has crashed and exits the program. I used 2 do it all the time in ChampMan 3. Not worth the extra coding when u can still get around it ne way.

#32 ApOcaLyPSe_1985

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Posted 20 July 2003 - 07:10 AM

ok, this is kinda getting out of hand imo. don't get to "x-men" with the psi powers.
they are powerful enough and meant to affect other beings with low psionic defense, not to move objects etc.
remember, you use your mind power to alter other minds or yours. natural enhancements, but dont get supernatural.

#33 Rwn

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Posted 20 July 2003 - 07:11 AM

Hmm... I think some programs understand the Ctrl-Alt-Del shut-off like a normal way of quitting the game. Don't know if it's possible in Xenocide, but...

Anyways, of course there will always be some obscure ways of tricking the program (hey, it's an open source project, you can disable it and recompile the whole program after if you want), but the point are 1) it's much more annoying to crash the program every time you want to reload, especially if the savegame was at the beginning of the mission 2) psychologically, you know that you're cheating, worse, you're not only cheating the game, you're cheating yourself.

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Posted 20 July 2003 - 07:15 AM

What I'm saying is that if ppl are gonna cheat, then they are gonna cheat no matter what :) Crtl+Alt+Del takes no longer than quitting the game normally, so the point is that there is no reason to set up these barriers 2 stop reloading as it will turn more ppl off than anything.

And as 4 programs recognising the exit trick mentioned above, they do but it is really easy to bypass. Might as well just not add it, if ppl want 2 cheat they will, its their decision.

#35 j'ordos

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Posted 20 July 2003 - 08:16 AM

Yeah, and xcom had it's own way by not letting you load the game during battlescape, might as well stick to that one.

but if some "secret" pictures/stories/easter eggs (but *nothing* related to the gameplay, like new weapons or new missions) could be added at the end of a successful game, it would be a plus...


cool idea, ever played tyrian? It had loads of extras,codes,... And you always received one when finishing the game (it was an arcade shooter, one per finished game is NOT recommended for xcom :hammer: )
of course you easily got them of the internet, but it was fun...
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#36 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 20 July 2003 - 08:20 AM

Yeah, that'd be cool! Like RE, when completed maybe a new game type is unlocked, dunno what tho. Or a new weapon would be unlocked 4 all new games started, like instantly in ur stores.

#37 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 20 July 2003 - 06:30 PM

Easter Eggs like that would be very cool.

Heres one more psi power, from the depths of my wierd subconcious: Psi Transmutation- would allow a unit to change one clip into another clip of the same family. Ex: pistol to rifle, plasma rifle to heavy plasma, autocannon he to heavy cannon he. This would be for the really long battles where you start to run out of clips for your heavy plasmas.
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#38 Fred the Goat

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Posted 21 July 2003 - 11:41 AM

Awesome psi skills. I definitely think pyrokinesis and cryokinesis should be included, as well as an Akira-like self-explosion (harming everyone around the psi-user, but not the psi-user him/herself). Get good at it, and you've got a walking bomb. Only one soldier needed per mission. :yell: AKIIIRAAAA!!!

Realistically, though, this is all psi-mod stuff.

psi purge - releases ally from alien mind control


Okay, this is the one thing that might be appropriate in v1, maybe v1.1. It always pissed me off that my high-level psi couldn't steal my own soldier back from the aliens' high-level psi. This would be a welcome balancing factor for aliens and humans, IMO. That way you can't just go around mc-ing mutons unless you catch them away from ethereals.

#39 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 23 July 2003 - 05:26 PM

But, in the original game, did you ever see a muton work with an etherial outside of cydonia?

And yeah, I was just throwing out these ideas because psi imo is too bland. It needs some more variety.
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Posted 23 July 2003 - 05:32 PM

psi purge - releases ally from alien mind control


Okay, this is the one thing that might be appropriate in v1, maybe v1.1. It always pissed me off that my high-level psi couldn't steal my own soldier back from the aliens' high-level psi. This would be a welcome balancing factor for aliens and humans, IMO. That way you can't just go around mc-ing mutons unless you catch them away from ethereals.

Or, even better, if a unit has a psi capable ally with him then there is a percentage chance, based on that units psi strength, of blocking any attack on that unit as long as it remains within a certain distance of him. That make sense? I'm not so sure it did, I'm kinda tired :LOL:

#41 Fred the Goat

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Posted 28 July 2003 - 12:47 PM

Makes sense, sounds reasonable, less fat, tastes just like chicken.

Er...that way you don't have schizophrenics running around either, the unit just goes to the psi-user with the highest power.

#42 kelfka

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 09:08 PM

I got an idea on how telekinesis could be uesd.
Lets say an alien is hiding behind a car. You cant see it but you know its there.

A small Psi could take a small rock and make some noise that could make them fire in that direction. And after the alien used up its TU's one of your guys can take it out.
A medium Psi could take a trash can and ram it on the alien. That would not kill, it but would do some damage and mostly do a K.O. And one of your guys can take it out.
A powerfull Psi could just take the car and squash it with it. :naughty:

Thanks


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#43 Trevelyan

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Posted 10 November 2003 - 09:35 PM

Uhh... as an official save whore... it would actually help me to not be able to save during tactical missions... the temptation is gone... just be sure to make an auto save after i equip my guys... it would be annoying as heck to lose a mission... reload, equip... lose, reload equip.

Also, you should also have something within the tactical menu to RESTART the mission... i hate how in Xcom 1 you gotta go through the Geoscape to get to your combat start file.
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#44 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 10 November 2003 - 09:38 PM

That is off topic, but to answer your request, there is a plan for an "ironman" mode where you can only save on the geoscape (and on the first turn of a battlescape)

Back on topic:
Psi Crush- Uses Psi to crush an enemy's internal organs (similar to darth vader/LordT's force choke) Results in incapication (stun) and -50hp.
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#45 warhamster

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Posted 15 November 2003 - 06:07 PM

I kinda think that psi powers should remain telepathic. It shouldn't really do anything telekinetic. It kinda makes things screwy. Ya get what I mean?

How about this for a late psi ability, disguise. Makes target look like a different unit. EXAMPLE, your guy looks like a snakeman.

#46 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 15 November 2003 - 06:14 PM

Hmm, that is nice. Good idea.
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#47 dipstick

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Posted 16 November 2003 - 02:48 AM

Who issssss that?? I do not recognisssssse him. Isssss he a late transssssfer from Cydonia??

:D
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#48 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 16 November 2003 - 08:21 AM

Reply: Yup, billy bob brain sent me to re-enforcer y'all. I a goina kik sum human assses
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#49 CptJackSparrow

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Posted 16 November 2003 - 09:45 AM

Nice idea!
But he wouldn't be able to shoot, would he?
Sounds a bit unfair if he would. But if he could
not shoot while disguised (because he must
concentrate on the disguise) it seems to be
good for scouting out the area. But still risky,
because an alien with higher psi stats could
blow his cover (like officers in Commandos). :o

#50 warhamster

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Posted 17 November 2003 - 04:01 PM

I suppose it would be unfair if you could keep the disguise while shooting. It should also be that you can't throw anything. The only thing you can do is walk. Especially since throwing (even a grenade) is not considered an attack.