Art- Issue #26 -standardissue Battledress Uniform

[fidel_]

The general consensus on textures has been that a single texture is preferrable. Contact Red Knight on this matter, I'm sure he can look up the pros and cons of single texture vs. multiple ones. I would personally use more than one texture too of course, much less hassle.

 

About the model, I've got a suggestion. Since this a female soldier I would like a bit more feminine qualities in it. I don't mean an amazon in a tight leather suit, but something that makes females recognizeable in the battlescape. (and since they have helmets we can't have long blonde hair to identify them )

 

One idea would be to give the hip the famous coke-bottle curve.

 

A slightly curving back would give a nice touch too.

 

Just my two . You've done a great job with it.

[Shinzon]

i certanly hope this isnt going in the usualy "makes the boobs larger" topic... those are REALLY annoying... but i agree with you... we dont need a sumo wrestler who can take a muton single handed in melee combat

[Vaaish]

i certanly hope this isnt going in the usualy "makes the boobs larger" topic... those are REALLY annoying... but i agree with you... we dont need a sumo wrestler who can take a muton single handed in melee combat

The steriotypical scanty clad super woman soldierisn't going to be in Xenocide... except maybe in the aliens' Human containment

 

Do a searh for images of modern soldiers.. once they stick on all the body armor and wear the baggy cammos the difference really isn't that noticable... the biggest things are in the hips and face as well as the height.

 

edit: mispelling

Edited January 21, 2005 by Vaaish

[fux0r666]

i certanly hope this isnt going in the usualy "makes the boobs larger" topic... those are REALLY annoying... but i agree with you... we dont need a sumo wrestler who can take a muton single handed in melee combat

 

I think this might be a slight over-reaction. There is certainly room to feminise this model, though, in my opinion.

[j'ordos]

i certanly hope this isnt going in the usualy "makes the boobs larger" topic... those are REALLY annoying... but i agree with you... we dont need a sumo wrestler who can take a muton single handed in melee combat

 

I think this might be a slight over-reaction. There is certainly room to feminise this model, though, in my opinion.

IIRC we've had a discussion like that before, luckily the right choice was made (i.e. NOT the big boob one )

If possible, I'd just like to see it next to the male model before I comment on the required degree of 'feminisation', makes it easier to compare them.

[rincewind]

The general consensus on textures has been that a single texture is preferrable. Contact Red Knight on this matter, I'm sure he can look up the pros and cons of single texture vs. multiple ones. I would personally use more than one texture too of course, much less hassle.

You should definitly go with a single texture. Otherwise, all the texture changes really kill performance for the game, especially since we might have a quite a lot soldiers in view (unlike maybe an fps, where you mostly fighting just two/three monsters).

 

Rincewind

[Guest Azrael]

IIRC we've had a discussion like that before, luckily the right choice was made (i.e. NOT the big boob one )

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Shoot!

I agree on fidel's changes, I was going to say that both models looked pretty much the same, just a little feminisation (sp?) to make them differentiable.

[Shinzon]

Update:

 

Made a quick mockup of the male soldier...

 

Female Changes:

 

Made butt bigger (trust me it doesnt look that big but if i make it any bigger... )

 

-hips wider

-shoulders thiner

-waist thinner

-small changes to the chin

 

***

 

male soldier

 

-hips thinner

-small butt

-shoulders wider

-small tweaks to the eyes and chin

[[Blehm 98]]

yes, very good, i can actually tell teh difference between teh male and the female, using pointers other than height. Keep up the good work Shinzon!

[fux0r666]

You're going to need to shorten up the arms. The human arm span is exactly his or her height from head to toe.

[Shinzon]

I checked and the arms seem to be pretty much alright...

 

i quickly rigged the arms and moved them down, they seem to be not too long...

 

Here is a render

 

(excuse my crappy rigging didn't really take time on this)

Edited January 23, 2005 by Shinzon

[Vaaish]

Those arms are to long in that pic, IIRC the tip of the fingers should come to about hte middle of the thigh.

[fux0r666]

Those arms are way too long. The armspan should be exactly the model's height. Use a polygon to measure.

[Shinzon]

Alright... Those arms were just a bit too long... made them shorter using refrence...

 

Should be alright now...

 

This model currently was designed for x-net because of the eyes and some other details including a mouth...

 

If i delete the ectual eyeballs and loose the insides of the mouth i think that will give us alot more poly...

 

Should i start optimizing the model for battlescape and forget the high poly one or... work on both at the same time?

[Vaaish]

for this model work on the high poly and optimize RK wants to test the LOD stuff so this will be a good one to use. in all actuality the base non smoothed version shold be around the right number of polys for battlescape.

[Shinzon]

Update

*********

-welded the two halfs together

-welded and attached the pokets

-optimized and tweaked the face endlesly

-optimized and tweaked the belt

 

*********

 

The pokets took a very long time to attach... almost as long as it took me to weld the two halfs together...

 

Is LOD when you take a high poly mesh "unrawp" it and then use it as a special bump map on a low poly version of the object?

 

Im uploading this version as well since it already crashed once when i was welding the face and i had to start welding them all over...

 

Changed it back to 1 texture...

 

*********

 

Current poly count:

 

non-smoothed: 3 749 Polygons (2 293 Not including the eyes)

1 Iteration: 10 114 Polygons (8658 Not including the eyes)

 

Strangley enough they look just about the same when im using the smoothing groops...

 

*********

 

If everything is ok i will start unrawping the model...

 

The male version will be about the same except mabe few tweaks and small changes in the texture...

F_Armor_Update.zip

[red knight]

Is LOD when you take a high poly mesh "unrawp" it and then use it as a special bump map on a low poly version of the object?

Yes

 

Greetings

Red Knight

[Vaaish]

can we get a fulllength fron shot?

 

Last issue, the helmet seems a little awkward might want to take a quick ool at the US or SWAT kevlars and tweak the sides of it a little.

[Shinzon]

Update:

 

-Tweaked and optimized the head

-Added a helment strap

 

****************************

 

I still need to make proper smoothing groops, but other then that i think all of the issues have been adressed...

 

The lower body looks a little bit bulky in my opinion though... anyone else?

[Penta]

Doesn't seem too bad, though I would need to see modern infantry helmets to compare against.

 

A thought: Might X-Com consider a full-face helmet?

[Moriarty]

full-face protection might be nice... would also eliminate the cloned-soldier problem

 

on another note, I think it would be nice to include an eyepiece, something like a little translucent screen covering one eye, used as a HUD, and perhaps as a weapon-view. some weapon ctd texts are mentioning it (or at least considering it).

 

another thing I would definitely give my soldiers (if I were commander of XCorps) is a little camera attached to the helmet. something to record what the soldier has been doing and to make a decent de-briefing possible. just for realism, perhaps a module can be attached to the helmet that looks like a little box with a tube sticking out and an attached eyepiece...

[Vaaish]

At Shinzon: lookig pretty good, I don't have a problem with the bottom half being a little bulky since the BDU pants are supposed to be a little baggy.

 

My final concern is in the helmet, I'm not sure what happened but it appears that the thing got a little rounded and lost some of it's shape. Take a look at the screenshots I posted or in the dev thread for the basic combat armor (tshirt armor) to see what I'm talking about.

 

At: Penta and Moriarty: This is the first level soldier you send out. as you research more armor types the helmets become more enclosed until you hit the Power armor and then it's a fully sealed suit. I would see the next level armor being the first level to be able to jack into the weapon cams.

[Moriarty]

well, if that would be the way, you would have to increase the soldier's accuracy when he is wearing a more advanced armor, wouldn't you?

so perhaps the HUD and stuff is integrated into the new armor types, but to have it exclusively there - I don't know. especially since by the time you develop new armor types you are probably already using alien weapons to some degree, and they don't have weapon cams. (or do they?)

 

I agree that the development of the armor types should be reflected in the level of sealing - the first two types of armor should not be suited for hostile-atmosphere missions. but the HUD and camera thing is something available at this time, so it would definitely be there 10 or 20 years from now...

[Vaaish]

well, if that would be the way, you would have to increase the soldier's accuracy when he is wearing a more advanced armor, wouldn't you?

so perhaps the HUD and stuff is integrated into the new armor types, but to have it exclusively there - I don't know. especially since by the time you develop new armor types you are probably already using alien weapons to some degree, and they don't have weapon cams. (or do they?)

 

I agree that the development of the armor types should be reflected in the level of sealing - the first two types of armor should not be suited for hostile-atmosphere missions. but the HUD and camera thing is something available at this time, so it would definitely be there 10 or 20 years from now... 

 

siting with a camera vs. iron sites wouldn't necessarily improve accuracy. It's all dependent on the user.

[Penta]

At: Penta and Moriarty: This is the first level soldier you send out. as you research more armor types the helmets become more enclosed until you hit the Power armor and then it's a fully sealed suit. I would see the next level armor being the first level to be able to jack into the weapon cams.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I know. What I meant is that there are increasingly plans (see the Objective Force Warrior concept) for the soldier to wear a full-head helmet, looking sort of like a motorcycle helmet.

 

From our point of view, I can't see that as a bad idea. For one thing, it looks cooler.

[Vaaish]

True, however for stylistic purposes it will be best to leave the concept as it is since it emphasizes the transition from a force that is ill equipped to deal with the alien threat to battle armored effective soldiers.

[Moriarty]

true. absolutely. but still, some texts about weapons using weapon-cams then have to be re-written, unless an eyepiece comes with the weapon now that's something for the art/programming people: is it possible to put some kind of HUD device onto the model along with certain weapons? depends on how the graphic engine deals with weapons, I guess. maybe it is possible.

[fux0r666]

The face seems to have some odd anatomical anomalies.. I would suggest appropriating some front and side views of a person and using it as a reference in your viewports.

[Vaaish]

Then for the lowlevel technologies tier maybe the references to gun cams should be pulled or listed as experimental. The hud and face protection begins on the Personal Armor, not the basic combat armor.

[Shinzon]

Update:

 

-Added Smoothing groups

-Fixed alot of small errors and touched the model up a little

-Tweaked the face mostly the cheeks and the eyes, no longer crosseyed as well

-Tweaked the helment

 

********************

 

I was basing my helment of this cool looking swat pic... but I guess swat and military helments arent the same...

 

http://www.bulletproofme.com/Photos%20-%202002/Kevlar%20Helmet,%20Military%20-%20Front.jpg This is a military helment

 

http://www.rbrtactical.com/images/MK%20II%20Left%20Side%20Swat%20Tac%20CLean.jpg this is the cool looking SWAT helment...

 

And can you please be more specific on anatomic anomalies... i checked with a couple of refrences and it was fine... unless I overlooked something... probably did...

 

The face render is a front view render not perspective so its flat and shows the shape of a little better....

[Vaaish]

looks better each time

 

I think th problem with the helmet is that it is too thick from that front view, lacks the protrusion on the side that is visible in the swat helmet, and that the back of it drops too low on the necy... would make it hard for the soldier to look up

[fux0r666]

I'd go with the less prolific helmet anyways. X-Corps is more of an HRU rather than a conventional warfare outfit. Their equipment would most likely be optimized for CQB.

 

For those who don't know:

 

HRU = Hostage Rescue Unit (it's kind of a euphemism for a counter-terrorist death squad).

 

CQB = Close Quarter Battle (which is a name that is applicable to most urban warfare scenarios).

[Shinzon]

Update:

 

-Tweaked the helment so it lookd a little bit more like the swat one

 

*******

 

So I tweaked the helment a bit tell me if it looks good now...

[Vaaish]

looks good to me, Fux any crits?

 

I think we are good to head into texturing.

[fux0r666]

I'm still at issue with some facial anatomy stuff, particularly the bridge of the nose- and of course I mean this in the politest of ways.

 

Here are a couple of faces I was doing for a couple of comic characters a while back.. it is certainly not my finest work (notice the asymmetry). Looking at the jpg, they're probably not the best pictures to illustrate my point, but I'll try to elabourate.

 

edit: pic removed

 

The bridge of the nose is a structure on everyone to one extent or another. There is always a bump extends from under the brow and goes to the tip of the nose that extends forwards of the cheeks and central face and eye orbits. It is like the skull is pinched between the eyes. Ideally, from the side it is like a line drawn from the tip of the nose to just under the brow, and from the top it is essentially a bell shaped curve. From the front it is a projection from the brow to the tip of the nose and it is about the same thickness all the way down.

 

That styrofoam head in the helmet pic has good definition in its nose shape (it seems to be lit from both sides). Just glancing at it, it almost seems that it was purposefully shot for my purposes hehe.

 

Now, bear in mind that I'm caucasian and I learned to draw caucasians, primarily. Vancouver is a city with a cornucopia of ethnicities here and I think that although the proportions of the bridge of the nose may be different between different races and again between the sexes that it is (I will hazard to say) always present.

 

The eyes look a little strange to me too, but I think it might be because there isn't anything between them, so I'm not going to go off on a tyrade about them. Once you build the bridge of the nose up a little I'll do some research and comment if I think that anything needs addressing. Thanks for being so open to critiques.

Edited March 15, 2006 by fux0r666

[Shinzon]

Ah thanks, now i see it, good explenation

 

I tweaked the nose trying to build a bridge but the since it originated from a low poly its been plauged by low poly demons

 

Anyway i always knew there was something messed up with the nose but you just nailed it right on the head...

 

and about the eyes please also tell, they were freaking me out from day 1... mabe its just a bit crosseyed or mabe its something else...

 

And besides how can i get better if i never know whats wrong?

[red knight]

Consider adding a little more polygons to eye brows and to the cheeks they give a lot to the character. Maybe that is why the face looks a little weird.

 

On the other hand, remember that we are not going to see it with that much zoom (except in the XNet) so I would try to start texturing this one to the battlescape to see if it really needs the extra detail.

 

Greetings

Red Knight

Edited March 12, 2005 by red knight

[fux0r666]

It is true that you may not see the model in great detail, but when someone is viewing a figure, they notice the eyes, face and hands first (I believe one could attributed this to biological programming to recognize faces, expression and body language). So, if one has polies to burn, they would be well spent in those areas, barring low poly animation anomalies at the joints.

 

I'll do some research on eye anatomy and read some tuts on illustrating eyes and we'll get to the bottom of what is wrong with them. For the time being, I think the corners are too low on the eyes, and the lids do not follow the curvature of the eye enough. Also, bear in mind that the eye sits inwards from the ridge of the upper edge of the orbit* but sticks out a bit from the ridge of the lower edge of it (if viewed in cross section from the side).

 

*the orbit of the eye is the 'eye hole' in the skull.

 

Another thing to bear in mind is that when people's eyes are open, the lid covers a portion of the top of the iris, but not usually the lower half. Reference my crappy drawing above to see what I mean. It may be that your eye irises are too large or somethting.

 

To me, as it is, it suggests an asian-like visage.. from this I speculate that the 'cheekbones' are very high, the 'skull' is quite smooth and lacks the sort of ridges you would find on other races, and that the shape of the eyelids suggest that they are thick. Depending on the kind of face you are going for, these may be things you would consider and play with (ie. enhancing the asianness by making the nose broader and tweaking the eye shape and what-have-you).

Edited March 12, 2005 by fux0r666

[Shinzon]

Update:

 

Tweaked The eyes (added more polys)

******

 

I belive they looked wierd since they only had 4 verticies in total creating a diomond... I added more verticies making them more oval shaped. I also looked at some refrences and i now belive it looks a little bit better...

[Shinzon]

Ok if this was the last issue, ill touch up the face and start texturing it...

 

And i belive that everyone is now either satisfied with how it look or is too fed up at looking at me post and at the grey mass that is soon to become X-corps shirt armor

[Vaaish]

Looks good to me... people won't be staring at the face too much so even if it's not perfect lets get her textured.

[Xer0]

Maybe this is just me, but the eyes seem a little bit (for lack of a better description)... upside down. I think the top of the eyes should be an arc of a much lesser degree, similar to how the bottom of the eyes currently are.

[Guest Azrael]

I agree with Vaaish, the face looks good enough, it's not like the face will be the center of attention when on the battlescape, plus, when it's textured it will look much better

[Shinzon]

After failing to unrawp this countless of times, I return here for help...

 

Can anyone please either give me some tips/tutorial/help or unrawp it please... I can texture it once its done though...

 

All my attemts ended up in either my pc crashing or with the unrawp so messed up it could no longer be considered a decent model...

 

I once againg ask for help, please....

Shirt_Female_Complete.zip

[fux0r666]

If you are using 3dsmax...

 

Use the polygon tool to select a portion of the model (an arm (without the hand) or something).

 

Detatch it as an element.

 

Apply the UVW map modifier.

 

Select the cylindrical gizmo.

 

Rotate the cylinder until it is oriented in the best possible way (ie. the cylinder of the arm and the cylinder of the uvw mapper are both facing the same way) and the seam is facing somewhere it won't be seen (ie. in the armpit). edit: The seam is represented by a different coloured edge on one of the polygons of the cylindrical gizmo.

 

Make sure the gizmo surrounds the whole element (maybe use the fit button).

 

now, apply the unwrap uvw modifier and hit edit

 

zoom out until you see the whole arm map.

 

Select all of its vertices and bring it down to the size you want it (it should be a decent size but your WHOLE map has to be inside the blue square).

 

Once it's sized, close the uvw edittor, go to your modifier stack, right click on the unwrap uvw modifier and choose 'collapse all.'

 

Now do this to every other body part. You'll have to get a little clever when doing the hands. maybe you can do the top half, then the bottom half.

 

Another hint: You can select vertexes outward of one you have already selected by pressing the '+' button.. so, barring any breaks in the uvw, you should be able to select the whole arm, say, by selecting on vertex and hitting '+' ad nauseum.

 

You'll also probably have to do some geometric rearranging in the uvw edittor to make sure nothing's overlapping and everything makes sense. If you have a vertex selected on the edge of a break in the geometry, the shared vertices it connects to will be showed in blue with a white centre, and shared edges will also be blue.

 

If anyone sees anthing I've neglected in this procedure, please pipe up!

Edited April 12, 2005 by fux0r666

[fux0r666]

Is my procedure working?

[Shinzon]

I played around with until my max crashed... yes thanks it works for the most part thought there are some minor problems that i will be able to solve...

 

sorry for a bit of inactivity, Midterms have arrived and my marks werent so good... the rest is self explanatory...

 

I will try to get some credible update soon...

And thanks fuxor

[Shinzon]

Thankyou Fuxor... it worked... i have a nice clean unrawp now... but i also have a model thats fragmented into sevral pieces... What do I do now? collect the moddle back together by welding it... or somehow applying that unrawp to a clean non broken up model?

 

Im attaching the actual unrawp i got...

[fux0r666]

Try to add teh unwrap to a non broken model..

 

If that doesn't work (I think it should), just fit the pieces together if your moved them and weld the joints together. That will definitely work!

[Shinzon]

Sorry for no updates, my 3dsmax has recently crashed... that is i cant start it up, but don't worry i still have all of the models I already backed them up...

 

So until i can fix it, im stalled for a bit...