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#1 Tiruas

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Posted 20 June 2009 - 07:36 PM

Instead of my usual babble i thought i'd just be concise this time... here goes...


Is MC difficulty related to Morale of target as well as MC stat, or just MC stat?

I.e. a marine that normally never fails MC, but is occassionally effect by panic attacks,

while under a 0 morale, might he be susceptible to MC as well?
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#2 Zombie

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Posted 20 June 2009 - 08:36 PM

Morale plays no role whatsoever in MC defense. MC Strength/Skill are the two major factors along with distance from target which determine success of an attack.

MC Panic attacks have a greater chance of success than MC Control, so that's why it seems like some soldiers are more susceptible. The reason why aliens use panic attacks first (normally) is to reduce morale to a very low number. Then they may try to MC control your unit. If this attack fails, well, your unit will panic the next turn anyway thus removing a unit from battle. The aliens are slick, sly and tough, so never underestimate them. LOL

- Zombie

Edited by Zombie, 20 June 2009 - 08:37 PM.
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Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
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#3 Tiruas

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Posted 20 June 2009 - 09:26 PM

LOL thanks

slick sly & tough eh? ROFL

not anymore :P

got my Mag Ion Armor, Endless Cannon/Disruptor & Therm Shock ammo

i'm not finished with MC trainng, but when it comes it'll just be overkill

there is virtually no challenge left for my super soldiers

i think next round i'll try a no reload SH

although given my bug/crash troubles, that may not be a legitimate option :(
continually contemplating my eternal eternity

#4 BlankSlate

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 08:31 AM

Morale plays no role whatsoever in MC defense. MC Strength/Skill are the two major factors along with distance from target which determine success of an attack.

- Zombie


Huh, I didn't know that. I don't think it plays enough of a role though IMO, part of what makes psionic/MC so unbalanced is that you hide in the corner of the map and mind control with near impunity.

Any idea how much MC strength is need to resist mind control at superhuman difficulty? So far I sack any soldiers I find with less than 50 but that's just a pure guess.

#5 Zombie

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 09:55 AM

Huh, I didn't know that. I don't think it plays enough of a role though IMO, part of what makes psionic/MC so unbalanced is that you hide in the corner of the map and mind control with near impunity.

True, distance plays only a minor component for the chances of success, but when your psionic stats are low and the distance is high it makes a big difference. ;)

Any idea how much MC strength is need to resist mind control at superhuman difficulty? So far I sack any soldiers I find with less than 50 but that's just a pure guess.

Have you looked at the Psionic Formulas section at the X-COM wiki? As far as I can calculate, you'll need a combined defensive Psi variable equal to about 93 for an Ethereal Commander standing right next to you. How you get to 93 depends primarily on Psi Strength and 1/5 Psi Skill. If your soldier has 100 Psi Skill his strength would only need to be 73 to negate Mind Control.

In practice, 80 Psi Strength or more should suffice. But with the scale of economics on your side, you can buy a boatload of soldiers and screen them and get nothing but Psi Strengths of 90 or more. Heck if you are patient enough (and have enough cash/Psi Labs), it is possible to get an all-100 squad too. :)

- Zombie
The Mr. Grognard of X-COM

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!


#6 BlankSlate

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 12:56 PM

An interesting read. If I got my calculations correct, in TFTD you need a combined defensive Psi of 85 to be immune to a Tasoth's mind control. For rookies fresh out of the MC lab with the minimum 16-24 skill and taking acount of the distance factor, I thing a strength of 70+ should be safe enough for standard missions. The Aquatoid Commander requires a higher strength of 101 however.

EDIT: Agh! The Tasoths attacked my large MC academy with 80 rookies awaiting their results. It was a slaughter. There wasn't enough weapons to go around so the defenders had to pick up them up from their fallen comrades Stalingrad style. By the second turn moral was completely broken and those not under mind control were running around like headless chickens. It'll be another three months before I start getting new screened troops. I think I'll have to lower my standards: A Strength of 55 should protect my soldiers from Aquatoid Technicians and Gilman Commanders.

Edited by BlankSlate, 22 January 2010 - 01:28 PM.


#7 Zombie

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 09:45 PM

Apologies, I thought this was in the EU forums. :blush1:

An interesting read. If I got my calculations correct, in TFTD you need a combined defensive Psi of 85 to be immune to a Tasoth's mind control. For rookies fresh out of the MC lab with the minimum 16-24 skill and taking acount of the distance factor, I thing a strength of 70+ should be safe enough for standard missions. The Aquatoid Commander requires a higher strength of 101 however.

Yup, that's what I come up with too. All this assumes that the TFTD team didn't change the Psi/MC equation... if they did, then these numbers are only a rough approximation. For the case of newly screened rookies, their Psi/MC skill only adds 3-4 points extra to their defensive strength so it's safe to ignore that for the calculation. However, if you have a soldier/aquanaut with a PStr of 60 and keep training him in psi on missions, it's possible to increase psi skill to 200 or more which would essentially function the same as a soldier with 100 for str and 16-24 for skill. Just takes more time to train, and in TFTD that isn't easy. :D

- Zombie

Edited by Zombie, 22 January 2010 - 09:47 PM.

The Mr. Grognard of X-COM

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!


#8 BlankSlate

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Posted 23 January 2010 - 03:39 AM

I checked in game at my local colony. The strength 75-85 guys got panic attacked a lot but never mind controlled