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So I Was Thinking About The Motion Detector


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#1 stewart

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Posted 07 July 2003 - 12:11 PM

I thought it should have long range but much less accurate detection. Short range is exactly what we are familiar with. With long range just one of 8 arrows lights-up to show the approximate direction to the nearest moving object. To use it your entire squad would best not move first.

Then I started thinking that it could detect civilians then which is fine but I thought.

You know the stun rod should work on soldiers and civilians too.

and furthermore.

If aliens are gonna pick-up weapons, chryssalids should be able to infect stunned people.

I know that a few ideas there.

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#2 Breunor

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Posted 07 July 2003 - 02:18 PM

I like the idea of less accuracy but better range. Perhaps it still gives the exact spot at short range (under3 or 5m?) but at medium range it picks 1 of 9 squares (the actual square or one surrounding it) and at long range it can be up to 2 meters/squares off. A meter or two might not sound like much, but when you've got buildings and rooms to deal with it makes a big difference. That way you still pick up multiple signals, but only get a general idea of where.

If a stunned civ is infected do they wake up from the shock? I think they would. That's a nice change, can make for a nasty tactical issue.

#3 j'ordos

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Posted 07 July 2003 - 02:25 PM

I can picture it already: "there's a stunned civilian over there sir!" *commander j'ordos looks bored* "so what private, you know the drill! Nuke him/her!" :naughty:

Edited by j'ordos, 07 July 2003 - 04:02 PM.

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#4 hippyjon

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Posted 07 July 2003 - 03:54 PM

both ideas make sence to me, itll make the motion detector acctually useful, itd have be inaccurate enough at long range so you could just scan the area then put a blaster rocket or a bomb whereever theres movement.
...or something

#5 j'ordos

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Posted 07 July 2003 - 04:01 PM

Without checking if it's a civilian?? :o
Your cruelty truly makes me :puke:
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Edited by j'ordos, 07 July 2003 - 04:03 PM.

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#6 stewart

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Posted 07 July 2003 - 04:34 PM

The long range does have a penalty as jordos says you don't know what it is plus if it just detects the CLOSEST you don't see anything else. If a civy is next to you and moves, oh well no long range this turn.

I'd have the range be clear across the map. It's basically for getting that LAST alien.
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#7 j'ordos

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Posted 07 July 2003 - 04:39 PM

The long range does have a penalty as jordos says you don't know what it is plus if it just detects the CLOSEST you don't see anything else.  If a civy is next to you and moves, oh well no long range this turn.

That's a good idea!! It can scan right across the map, but if something moves very close to the scanner it's going to disrupt the signals coming from a distance, so you're back at square one. Would make you wanna blasterbomb those civvies just to get 'em quiet :LOL:
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#8 stewart

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Posted 07 July 2003 - 04:53 PM

that's why I said we should be able to stun-rod them. And of course given that Chryssalids should be able to infect stunned people.
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#9 j'ordos

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Posted 07 July 2003 - 04:59 PM

that's why I said we should be able to stun-rod them.

Wait, wasn't that possible in Xcom1? IIRC you could stun them, but they turned hostile once (if) they woke up?
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#10 hippyjon

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Posted 07 July 2003 - 05:07 PM

Wait, wasn't that possible in Xcom1? IIRC you could stun them, but they turned hostile once (if) they woke up?

what did they do, shout abuse? :idea: hmmm, maybe they should
...or something

#11 j'ordos

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Posted 07 July 2003 - 05:09 PM

They just showed up as a hostile unit on the map, and if your soldier saw one of these ex-stunned civvies the red "enemy seen" button would flash.

Oh yeah: mission wouldn't end until you killed them/stunned them again

Edited by j'ordos, 07 July 2003 - 05:10 PM.

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#12 stewart

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Posted 07 July 2003 - 05:39 PM

You could only stun with small launcher or blast damage. It may be that civilians always see you as an enemy but they are not armed so how can you tell. Maybe once released from MC they turn red?
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#13 j'ordos

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Posted 07 July 2003 - 06:08 PM

You could only stun with small launcher or blast damage. It may be that civilians always see you as an enemy but they are not armed so how can you tell. Maybe once released from MC they turn red?

That could have been it!! I know those civvies could turn hostile, but I didn't exactly remember how, and I thought it could be stunning. But now I remember, it was by MC'ing them, after you released them from MC they would turn hostile, they'd show up as enemy on the minimap.
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#14 nebulous menace

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Posted 11 July 2003 - 06:52 AM

I use the motion detector ALL THE TIME. I put two of them on every flight and it makes going in the front door of the ship a LOT less stressful. Of course my MD guys occasionally get mind-controlled. .. nothing's perfect.

#15 Nickisimo

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Posted 11 July 2003 - 08:17 AM

The motion detector would have been really great if the range was just a little bigger than 8x8. It can be useful for guys standing outside UFO doors, or alien base doors, but then they have to either waste a turn or use a pistol/MD combo...blech. It would have been nice to have something like an alien MD that had greater range or something. :crying:

#16 miceless

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Posted 13 July 2003 - 01:28 AM

Yeah, you could also have a psi based detector that detects aliens based on brain activity. That could work well as a map-wide detector, and then you can keep the human one as the basic one.
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#17 j'ordos

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Posted 13 July 2003 - 03:55 AM

I must say I like that idea: there is a basic, human tech motion detector that, well, works :) . And then later there is the more advanced alien motion detector. I see two options for that one: 1) improved, so detects the same as human detector, but better, or 2) psi-based, detects stationary units as well, but only those which emit brain waves (so no cyberdisks, sectopods, tanks,...)
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#18 miceless

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Posted 13 July 2003 - 04:19 AM

I like the psi based idea, as it makes it more alienish. If it worked all over the map, but wasnt highly accurate, it could work quite well. It could just show directions, or rough locations.

Course, this would be v1.0+
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#19 Cpt. Boxershorts

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Posted 13 July 2003 - 10:09 AM

Another idea, if they go with the modular tanks idea for v1+ (you know, where you have one tank chassis, and a couple of different turrets to equip it with at the base).

After you research the MD, be able to build a sensor array turret. With a tank engine powering it, it's a good excuse for the extra range. The tank is then an unarmed, very fast scout that can see through walls.

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#20 j'ordos

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Posted 13 July 2003 - 12:03 PM

It would have to have a good range and good accuracy, in order to justify an otherwise unusable tank...
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#21 warhamster

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Posted 13 July 2003 - 06:56 PM

Cool idea. But the psi detector might just be way to powerful. even if you can't precisely tell where the aliens are, just lob over a grenade or even send a blaster bomb in the general direction. I don't know how you can balance that. maybe you can only use it when someone actually uses their psi abilities. this'll make Psi detectors useful in sniffing out those leaders who can MC you even when they can't see you.

#22 j'ordos

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 05:47 AM

I would like to see the aliens have some kind of detector though, or maybe the psionic ones can 'sense' your soldiers in a way, anything that allows for them to ambush your squad once in a while.
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#23 Breunor

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 06:33 AM

The only downside with making the alien MD an item to use is that you're going to find it and then be able to use it as well. I agree that the aliens need a good way of knowing where you are. IIRC they could MC you without line of sight. If that's the case, why not let them all have some kind of mind sense that lets them know where you are? The AI always has a disadvantage unless it cheats, so I think it should be a given that the aliens have years of training in psi sensitivity and get motion detector benefits without the device itself.

I think Stewart's version sounds good for the human tech, the closest movement regardless of range is picked up as a cardinal direction on the scanner.

#24 Nickisimo

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 06:50 AM

Brue, reading my mind. The aliens can definitely MC or panic your guys without being able to see them which implies that they have that sort of technology(or brain power) to begin with. An alien detector would be neat, but in the end it would be too overpowering. Either it would have to be really inaccurate or the aliens would have to get something too to keep things balanced. :happybanana:

#25 miceless

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 07:08 AM

Brue, reading my mind. The aliens can definitely MC or panic your guys without being able to see them ...

This has been explained before hasnt it. The aliens can go into sight range, then go out again and remember where you were. The amount of time they remember you for depends on the difficulty level.

Any alien detector would have to be carefully tested. It would have a tendency to make no difference, or make them invincible. Same goes with a human one i suppose.
"If it moves - kill it. If it doesn't move - kill it anyway, it might move later."

#26 Breunor

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 09:51 AM

True, it's really a game mechanics glich IMO. 1 alien without MC walks up and sees you, then leaves sight. Then a different alien who hasn't seen you can use MC, same as you can do. So they're still using some sort of telepathy to get that info, which IMO is a bug. Anyone using MC should be the one who has line of sight to the target, not a third party. But if we assume that these aliens have various telepathic abilities anyway, then they could sense the general direction of humans, like the less accurate/farther range MD mentioned above. Code wise, you could weight the alien movement either towards or away from the closest soldier location, based on the mission type.

#27 Simaldeff

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 04:22 PM

Well I always wandered why a motion detector and not infrared scan ?

Infrared r those thing u can capture for heat-emiting object ... the fun will be that u will be able to see civilian and hotblooded aliens, but not drons, robot (lie sectopods and cyberdisc or ur own tanks at least not the evoluted ones) and u will barely see stuff like Muton and Snakemans (reptiles are usually colblooded unless they are at the sun light or near other heat-sources)

and why not the possibility to equip weapons with those scanner : so u can shoot from behind a wall (imagine killing a muton from behind the wall of a UFO with a PLASMA gun ... he wont realize until he's dead)

PLUS one thing why when u shoot a wall the entire thing goes down ? I prefer making hole in it and if I want to shoot it down I kick/explode/cut it with a laser (dont u thk laser should be a continue lightray ?)

ok that's all

I like the idea of evolved psy movscan ... it's logical (if u can find an UFO with and PsyRadar whay not a single f***ing secto)

ok bye

#28 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 06:09 PM

1. Well I always wandered why a motion detector and not infrared scan ?

2. and why not the possibility to equip weapons with those scanner : so u can shoot from behind a wall (imagine killing a muton from behind the wall of a UFO with a PLASMA gun ... he wont realize until he's dead)

3. PLUS one thing why when u shoot a wall the entire thing goes down ? I prefer making hole in it and if I want to shoot it down I kick/explode/cut it with a laser (dont u thk laser should be a continue lightray ?)

1. Why bother, when a motion scanner can detect everything. NVG's are being left out coz they would unbalance the game, but the motion scanner doesn't unbalance ne thing, so there's no probs. If the technology exists and it doesn't effect balance then it might as well be in there. Then again, it would make the game a little harder...

2. Well, coz u gotta look down at the display. u can still hold a weapon in the other hand, it just takes a couple of TU's to look down.

3. Well, it's not as easy as that. I don't know much about modelling but I did a level in Half Life. When u cut an arch way out of a wall it took a lot of poly's to get the rounded effect. To get multiple bullet holes in a lot of buildings would eat away at memory badly.

#29 miceless

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 11:49 PM

3. PLUS one thing why when u shoot a wall the entire thing goes down ? I prefer making hole in it and if I want to shoot it down I kick/explode/cut it with a laser (dont u thk laser should be a continue lightray ?)

To get multiple bullet holes in a lot of buildings would eat away at memory badly.

Yeah, and organising line of sight through small holes like that would be a real pain!
"If it moves - kill it. If it doesn't move - kill it anyway, it might move later."

#30 dipstick

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Posted 15 July 2003 - 01:28 PM

I will keep this lot in mind while designing the MD X-Net article!
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#31 Fred the Goat

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Posted 18 July 2003 - 02:06 PM

What about the crystal ball (I forget what it was actually called)? How about both brain-scan and psi-detection settings? And to make it balanced, psi-detection could tell you approximate location and affiliation (civilian/soldier/alien) but, like was stated earlier for motion detectors, would only give you the closest living thing. It couldn't detect robots, as stated before, and after all, if there's a kid standing next to you, it'd be a little harder to filter out her brain waves, right? It'd also mean that your guys would have to split up a lot to use the psi scanner to get the last alien. If that's too much, it could automatically filter out other soldiers' psi.

#32 Moriarty

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 11:07 AM

I just noticed, while playing xcom: The motion scanner is about the most useless item in the game. Perhaps it would be nice to change it a bit for xenocide?

Here's my idea: rather than being a hand-held object that needs time to be operated, make it something like a forearm-mounted-display-thing. In-game effect would be: instead of having to "use" it, you would just see the motion scanner display permanently while controlling an operative equipped with it. perhaps in a corner of the screen, which shouldn't be a problem, because it's not 320*200 anymore. :D

And while you're at it, perhaps it would be nice to have something like IFF (identify friend and foe) implemented, so you don't always have to compare the display to the overview, trying to find out which of those darn blips is actually not on your team :rolleyes:

#33 Whitewashed

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 11:12 AM

The not needing to be operated sounds good but you should still have to carry it, otherwise there would be no disadvantage at all of using it.

#34 Black Dash

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 11:14 AM

Good idea.... by the HBD!

#35 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 11:19 AM

Remember in apoc how the motion tracker was always on, but only if your were carrying it in one hand? We could have something like that.
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#36 Black Dash

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 11:30 AM

If we use the slot sistem.... HUD Powerup on the armor.... hum. OR.... we culd do what CPL said. It would work well on both. ^_^ But the disavantage on the armor is that u have to fabricate a lot of them for the soldiers to use.

#37 Formerly MQ

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 01:33 PM

that would be a cool disadvantage though - if it took time and resources to implement it on each piece of armor...and if it takes up a slot, it is potentially preventing you from using some other cool piece of tech, like thermal/night goggles or advanced sights or something like that, you know? it would be cool to have to make that decision and choose what you like better!

#38 Magstar

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Posted 22 February 2004 - 10:36 PM

What about creating a breed of alien (or, maybe powerful ethereals can do this with their psychic powers) that's invisible to the naked eye? Then you'd need motion detectors, a potent auto-fire, and a little luck, to bring it down.

Or: What about a deployable motion detector that'd give off a signal if any alien moved within its radius? Drop one down when you breach an alien ship and you'd know if any of the sneaky buggers were coming in from outside to catch you in a pincer.

#39 Robo Dojo 58

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Posted 23 February 2004 - 07:33 AM

Or: What about a deployable motion detector that'd give off a signal if any alien moved within its radius?

Proximity mines do that, and more. ^_^ It'd be nice if you could choose the range of detection for their detonation.
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#40 GrooveChamp

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Posted 24 February 2004 - 03:26 PM

Remember in apoc how the motion tracker was always on, but only if your were carrying it in one hand? We could have something like that.

I'm not so well informed about the future plans in battlescape skimishes :) but will it be simultaneous turnbased/realtime like in apoc? :D Then the motion scanner would make sense (in a way :D)


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#41 FrozenIceman

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Posted 25 February 2004 - 10:29 PM

If you are more of a recon before attack type of stratigic person you could use the motion tracker before entering buildings or alien spacecraft, and especially the alien bases. If the humans have a motion tracker then the aliens should have an equivelent. It is more of a stratagy element instead of Rambo. Especially early on "if" you know how to use it correctly.