Check This Out

[GreatGold]

Hey All -

 

I was just messing around on the X-Men2 movie site and they had an interesting little setup in one of their Flash browsers. So, I can't make a direct link, but here are the instructions to view it.

 

1.) Go-to http://www.x-men2.com/

2.) Select whatever language is yours...

3.) Wait for it to load...

4.) Close the annoying add for a Desktop picture.

5.) On the right of the screen, midway down, is a little disk-like thing that morphs into an eagle and then back, place mouse over it.

6.) Two options scroll out, click on the "Database" on left.

7.) Look at how cool it is, and how neat it would be if some version of Xenocide eventually implemented something like it for the tech tree...

 

Frankly, I love it. Obviously, we couldnt just rip it, but we could definately use it for insperation. I just want to know if you guys think its "cool"...and then we can debate whether or not something like this is possible, when, or even wanted. It might not be practical due to its slightly akward controls... but if we ever decided to go with something similar this could easily be fixed. I just thought it was bloody cool .

 

What do you all think,

Gold

[[[Micah]]]

It is cool. The person who designed it was very creative.

[Cubik]

This is something that is cool for a short while....then quickly becomes anoying. But it can be modified, decrease the time it takes for data to appear, remove the free movement by the mouse, just be able to zoom in and out.... The quicklink is a nice touch, should be placed as a little bar to the left off the screen, when you hover your mouse over it, it should expend into a window with a long list structured data list.

[Guest drewid]

The presentation is really slick. but I'm not convinced.

Surely the whole idea of a database is to get to data quickly and easily.

 

Getting the mouse over a tiny moving button which you can't read kinda defeats the point IMO.

 

Having a 3d database ifs quite feasable, but I think the 3d needs to be organised better, and have a reason for being there, rather than being just an effect.

 

Quite possible to do, just need some thought.

[GreatGold]

Perfect -

 

This is what I was hoping would happen from the X-Men example...discourse! So, what does everyone think of -some- form of 3D database? I definately agree, as I suggested in the intro post, that the X-Men idea is slick but inefficient. If we could make it quicker, with a more keen organizational sytem, I think it would be a nice little touch to perhaps v2 or such.

 

I also like the idea of the web browser though, so what would be really great is if we could combine the two. I definately think its possible though. What do you think? Personally, I love the general idea of a 3D scannable free-mopvement database. Very futuristic, and if implemented in a pragmatic way, could be very efficient.

 

Gold

[Deimos]

Its definitely an intersting design but it does get tiring to use very quickly. Within two clicks I found it quicker and easier to use the quick nav menu below.

 

I think if we did go for a 3d style database it would have to have useability as its primary design function. There is quite a bit of research going on in 3d desktops that use the power of the current crop of graphics cards. I read somewhere that even MS were getting in on the act.

 

There was one that caught my eye which used everyday 'familiar' objects to interact with in a virtual 3d space. The example I saw was for windows and was set in a modern office with filing cabinets and desks and everything else you'd find in an office. I don't know how effective it is but it looks interesting nonetheless.

[Guest drewid]

Apple have a thing called "PILES" they are fiddling with.

 

You see a directory as a stack of paper, when you hold the mouse over it it expands out to individual documents.

 

http://homepage.mac.com/rdas7/piles.html

 

Limited use I think but interesting.

[Xracer]

you know this database idea is good, how about

use some sort of "drag" move foward feature i use it in AutoCAD they called realtiem zoom

you just hold the mouse buttom and if you move up you get closer to the object if you move the mouse down you get farther away from it,

therefore you can rotate as though in a virtual room, of course there has to be soem logic as to where or how the data is going to be stored. I guess is some sort of cameraangle trick that could be used.

Did i make myself understandable???

anyway it looks like a good concept, maybe somethign can be worked out from it

[Breunor]

Well, I've posted this in several spots, I'm going to be labeled a spammer soon. Just shows how spread out these ideas get I suppose... This requires java to run, designed for 800 by 600 resolution and a maximized browser window. The links for heavy laser, heavy plasma, HWPs, and the XC1 and XC11 planes have info.

 

Xenopedia

 

The java applet link is there because the applet is not registered. Consider the concept rather than content of course. Pics can be replaced with animated views. Research/exit buttons are just there. Comments/suggestions?

[Cubik]

Sweeeeeet. This could very well work as the main X-Net interface, combined with a list with quicklinks. Only.... when you choose a main subject for the X-Net button, wouldn't it be better if the other subjects closed? And when you clicked the X-Net button, the current subject closes and you are back to the X-Net main hub, WITH all the main subject still open.

 

Right now if you click on the X-Net main to access the subjects, pick a subject, and then clicks the X-Net button, the whole thing closes!

 

So, change what subjects that remains open, and the x-Net thing, and this could really be a valid option for the X-Net interface.

[mikker]

Its a good idea breunor, but it gets a bit messy with all the text there.

 

I like Cubiks idea.

 

X-net: small

---------------------

weaponry: small

all other catergorys: gone

---------------------

laser weapons: normal

plasma and standart weaponry: gone

---------------------

Heavy laser: normal, thick

Laser Riffle, laser pistol: small

 

click on the small "laser weapons" text, and the hvlaser description text dissapears, and it change to normal thickness. "Laser Riffle", and "laser pistol" grow to normal.

Edited May 10, 2003 by mikker

[Breunor]

This was designed using the CerebellumImage java app, so an opensource version of java (which I did find) would have to be used to rewrite it. I expect the changes to the menu could be made by a java person easy enough. The text and picture sections are just html frames loading other pages, I used onload and onunload events for the sounds and showing/removing stuff. A lot more graphics could be used, but if you don't run it locally or have a fast connection that would be bad.

 

I agree with all the menu items clogging things up. I tried to use different colored text entries to help that, but there's not much that can be adjusted. I could use background colors behind the final entries, like pistol/rifle, and leave the main categories with transparent background like it currently is.

 

When you click on an open item like weapons/armament, which is already open, it closes that item. That includes XNet, the main menu item. But you can just click on another menu and the first will close. So if you open aircraft items, then click weapons, the aircraft menu closes.

 

What I think would look really nice is to have items shrink and blur when not used. Meaning, wneh you click XNet to open the main groups, XNet shrinks to the background. When you click on weapons and its menu opens, the other menus close and the weapons menu shrinks and blurs, and the XNet option shrinks and blurs even more. Makes it look like they're getting farther away. Dont know if the blur would work, but that could be replaced with color changes, menu items get darker as they "move away".

 

I'd love to use this system and would be willing to learn the java skills to do it, but I'm concerned how it would tie into the rest of the game, both code-wise and looks-wise. Looks shouldn't be an issue, I can use existing UIgrphics easy enough. But coding is the big issue. We'll see what kind of feedback we get regarding this (I'm sure it will be brought up) and go from there.

[GreatGold]

Bravo!!

 

Absolutely love the concept! It could use some refining, but its right on. I like the ideas about thinning out links not in use, as well as a quicknav type button.

 

So I'm assuming that in the left side windows, after youve selected an item, the 3D model there will be zoomable and rotationable?

 

Also, I had a thought. In this example, once a link is selected, it branches out on a vertical plane. I think it might be neater, and less cluttered, if the zoom was actually in a horizontal plane. So instead of links popping up, they pop in (think like rushing in, such as the effect we've all seen in the windowns star screensaver). Then you have the new set of links in front of you, and all the clutter of the ones youre no longer looking at are behind you. To go back, there would just be a back button.

 

If this wasnt clear, let me know and ill try again . Love the concept, much more eye-candy than the orginal, but still effecient and fun!

 

Gold

[Deimos]

If we could unclutter it I think that would make an excellent menu for xnet.

 

It could be programmed up to make use of the graphics card's hardware (could it RK?) and then it wouldn't need java or a html core.

 

If it could we could use the hardware to fade menu objects that aren't being currently viewed. Maybe even putting the menu system in one corner of the screen and having the rest of the screen space for the information?

 

When a player clicks on x-net on the Geoscape it could switch to a (dummy) log on page that runs up info like the xmen2 site logon does and then places the player into the main page with the blue fireball (say in the top left corner) with a graphic background to represent the X-net. Sort of a similar thing to the matrix or the web out of Johnny Mnenomic. Something to get the feel across that xnet is enormous and spans the world.

 

Then when the player wants to look at something he interacts with the x-net by using the blue fireball. For example he wants to look at the specs of the skyranger, he'd navigate through the fireball and the view would shift, zooming in a similar way to the xmen interface till the skranger page zoomed into full screen.

 

How does that sound?

[red knight]

Well i have replyied about the Technical stuff in other thread, but i would like to add that, that kind of visualization tool is thinked to be used with millions of entries using clustering methods... I don't think it is the right metaphore for the limited use it has in Xenocide... In Scientific Visualization and in the Graphic User Interfaces Courses i had taken they ALWAYS tell you that you need the right methafor and technique for your domain... For limited information that is not the way to go... if you really insist on that i can program it without problems but i must give you the warning...

 

Greetings

Red Knight

[Breunor]

Well, if it requires more work for you RK, there's little reason to do it that way. But it seems like most of the responses have been positive, especially if the clutter is reduced by collapsing menus. I bet the creative writers could churn out lots of articles to fill in the space for such a system. There could be links to info not vital to the game, but more for storyline stuff. But if the menu sticks to a simple version (check my reply in the other thread), it would hopefully be easy enough to use.

[GreatGold]

Hehe -

 

Believe me, we can fill up more space with quality fluff than you could program for . So were just waiting, and BRING IT ON!! :happybanana:

 

Gold

[Breunor]

If we use this system (and remove the 'not in use' menu items to clean up the look), then when you click on an item like laser rifle, a final branching menu comes up with links to 'tecnhical specs', 'development history', and 'related information'. Tech specs would show the stats for the weapon like the original game does, development history could show when the item was researched and which base completed it (creatively described, of course), and related info could be more storyline info or other stuff people want to add.

 

This would allow extra info to be included in X-Net while still keeping clutter down. There could even be another high-level option (next to the main X-Net link) for other info as well-storyline, international news, etc.

 

I can modify the existing menu and repost it with some of these ideas, but it would not collapse the unused menu options like a final version would. Unless there's a Java programmer lurking around out there... hint? hint? So it would still look a little cluttered, but I can adjust the text size and colors to help clarify things, also make it larger for clarity as well.

[mikker]

Sounds good Breunor.

[Breunor]

I'll leave the menu sample as is for now, making changes to it won't make any difference right now. If anybody wants the code to play with examples, you can download it here.