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#1 Jesus Escariut

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Posted 10 August 2003 - 02:59 PM

ok i searched to see if this has been brought up and all i got was off topic discussion about devtar...

so here was what i was thinking, how come there is no wild life? i know in some of the xcom missions you saw the occasional snake on the ground but it did nothing, im thinkin how bout we put some critters in at random based on location, not every mission will have one, but some will... like in jagged alliance, you guys could get bit by a snake when they were swimming, that always made things more interesting, and its practical, yea when your wearing armor a snake wont do much, but lets say your in africa and a rhino charges you... that will mess you up... and who says mr snake wont bite that sectoid... imagine that your hunting that last bug when he gets bit by a snake ;)

and when we add the TFTD element to the game you can have sharks... and coral snakes.. and eels... and tuna!...okay maybe not the tuna.. but still thinks like sharks and what not make sense, just every once in a while they are their... and who says they have to always be lookin to attack you, they might just be there swimmin, i know i would like to see some cows and sheep and what not in the regular farm levels, maybe a mutilated one laying out in the field with the abducter near by or what not.. im sure you guys will expand on this one......

:D

#2 Aosar

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Posted 10 August 2003 - 03:07 PM

Not too bad and idea, would require new models tho... And AI, plus other stuff, but then again would add to the reality and atmosphere of the game.
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#3 Jesus Escariut

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Posted 10 August 2003 - 03:20 PM

actually i think u only would need one new AI, since the passive creatures could use a civilian AI, just walk around... maybe take away the open doors, then the aggressive creatures can use a chrysalid ai, since they are HTH, maybe make it where they only attack if you are near, since i dont think a snake would hunt down a solider... but then agian maybe a shark or bear would?...

#4 Ancalagon

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 01:55 AM

But if you had just shot down a UFO and landed near right after then all the wildlife would have been scared away.

#5 samblake

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 02:38 AM

But if you had just shot down a UFO and landed near right after then all the wildlife would have been scared away.

I think this is a very good point. I also think that adding wild life that could hurt or kill you would be bad for gamplay reasons. Even if it doesn't happen very often it's gonna annoy the heck out of me. Imagine you have one man left, your about to complete the mission and a squirrel comes and bites your toe. Your dead. :cussing: Not good.

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#6 Puasonen

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 03:20 AM

I LOVE the idea! Of course for example rhino isn't something you allways see when you go outside in africa, especially in citys and villages where the missions are. But sharks underwater and a horde of wolfs on forrest missions would be cool SOMETIMES. Not every damn time. Think about a sectoid attacked by wolfs! I know breunor would like to see it ^_^

Edited by Nyyperoid, 11 August 2003 - 03:20 AM.

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#7 j'ordos

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 03:32 AM

Yeah but what will he do if a wolf pack attacks his operatives? He then has the choice of saving his wolfbrothers OR saving his elite squad... I can see him being torn between the two options already :crying: ( :devillaugh: )

Although wolves attacking humans are rare, I know :boohoo:

Personally, I don't think many animals will attack a horde of humans nor aliens, :idea: although the smell of those aliens could drive them into a frenzy...
as long as it doesn't happen too much

Edited by j'ordos, 11 August 2003 - 03:35 AM.

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#8 miceless

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 06:13 AM

Yeah, the odd animal might be quite fun. An inquisitive squirrel or two would go down well.

With regard to agressive animals im not so sure. It might get quite annoying as said above.
"If it moves - kill it. If it doesn't move - kill it anyway, it might move later."

#9 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 06:53 AM

Simple! You shoot the dangerous animals!

Anyway, I really like the idea of random animals, Even dangerous ones. I think that it would add an intresting feature to the game. But will it be possible to mc them? You could mc reapers, celatids, sillicoids, ect. Also Passive animals would add atmosphere too.
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#10 Jesus Escariut

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 10:40 AM

But if you had just shot down a UFO and landed near right after then all the wildlife would have been scared away.


cows horses llamas (gotta have some llamas) sheep and pigs, are in pens barns and fenced in areas... they are going no where , "where you going? NO WHERE!" so they are now x-corps target practice, kill a pig and a cow you got your squad a bacon cheese burger.

as far as aggressvive animals they wont be on hunter mode, they would be in corner mode if you walk near or on a snake its gonna bite you, if you chase the wolf around the map its gonna bite you, when deer get spooked they run a bit and then they try to bed down, u could throw in little caves for bears nothing bigger then maybe 4 meters, or a pack of wolves not that hard to do make a hill and cut out the center of it.

in the original when i was on desert missions with hills i used to have 2 guys "dig" a bunker and then i would put my squad in it, and have one guy run back and forth to the skyranger (yea i had a imagination that got out of control) but a bear cave can work off same idea almost

#11 Breunor

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 12:11 PM

Yes, I'd love to see wolves devour a sectoid! Using MC of course, you'd be just like Perrin Aybara from the Wheel of Time series. :D

The down side is the additional overhead it adds to the game. The polys, the textures, the AI, all take extra juice. I think it would be a nice option as an expansion/module for the game though. But I'd have to agree that after a ufo lands/crashes and a transport lands, plus all the weapon fire, no animal would come within a mile of the site. Even sharks would likely be driven off by the EMF energy in the area.

I had asked about a horse or mutilated cow model for the farm crash sites, a nice exploding animation would be fun. It would be a rare thing to not blow up the cows just for fun... :devillaugh:

#12 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 12:33 PM

I had asked about a horse or mutilated cow model for the farm crash sites, a nice exploding animation would be fun. It would be a rare thing to not blow up the cows just for fun...  :devillaugh:

Hehehe

"Commander Tommy, there's a Cow over there."
"So? Kill it if it's in the way"
"Err, I think McDonalds want 1 to do tests on sir, they said they'd feed our soliders for free if we get 1 alive, sir."
"What? Why?"
"Well, they've gotten hold of some Alien Surgery equipment and they think it could advance their food texturising techniques by 10 fold."
"Really? What equipment are they using? Did we authorise this?"
"Well, we sold the Anal Probe to them for $100,000 last week"

Hehe, sorry 4 the drag off topic, I'd like 2 c some critters as long as they are quite rare, if they were rare I wouldn't mind them being aggressive.

Edited by Jim69, 11 August 2003 - 12:34 PM.


#13 Fred the Goat

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 12:55 PM

I think it's a great idea, as long as animals are rare, and animal attacks are rarer. Animals should run away quickly, especially from a firefight. On the other hand, they should be pathetically easy to MC. Those squirrels would be awfully good scouts, especially if their size makes them hard to hit :D would aliens know an MCed animal if they saw one?

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#14 Jesus Escariut

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 01:06 PM

my idea for animals was they would be very rare, like 98% of the time animals would flee area, but how do you think aliens capture critters, maybe sumthing about ufos draw the animals... how bout the only time you encounter a lot of them is at abducter landings? farmer bob and his sheep get caught in the act out in the tool shed? ... but for the randomness lets say you might see an animal every 100 crashes ... so you could beat the game and have only seen one animal (a cow) you replay it and you see a horse... you replay agian and you see a snake that attacks you... this is somehting that the old time xcom fans will be like "holy cow! is that a cow!" :wink: or they are in the desert and see the snake just like in the old except this time the snake moves!... its gonna surprise the old guys and thats what i think counts

#15 mikker

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 01:30 PM

what about the cow in the harvesters? ^.^

EDIT: would you be able to give a cow a weapon and mind-control? Like the ones in the bonus level in diable 2?

And here comes the heck bovine with a stun rod!

"muh muh"

Edited by mikker, 11 August 2003 - 01:31 PM.

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#16 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 01:37 PM

Anal probe, so good the cow's want it back :LOL:

There should definatly be some mutilated cows in the Alien Examination room, or is it just my bonafide blood lust coming back 2 me again :sly:

#17 Jesus Escariut

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 01:45 PM

IRCC the old game would have a cow on a ship all cut open.. can we have the same thing.. but some dying moos and twitching... like its stomach is laying in a jar, but its still alive... that would add some atmosphere... maybe even a cut open human... with groans and blood... its all about the atmosphere :devillaugh:

#18 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 01:51 PM

IRCC the old game would have a cow on a ship all cut open.. can we have the same thing.. but some dying moos and twitching... like its stomach is laying in a jar, but its still alive... that would add some atmosphere... maybe even a cut open human... with groans and blood... its all about the atmosphere  :devillaugh:

Oh yeah, I remember it now, that was cool.

So, a human cut open on an operating table is fine, a cow's death moo's is fine, anal probes are fine, blowing up cows is fine, but a little enforced amputation? WAY too violent :LOL:

Edit: I think I have been watching South Park far too much, Anal Probes are creeping dangerously comman into the covo by me :o

Edited by Jim69, 11 August 2003 - 01:52 PM.


#19 j'ordos

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 03:33 PM

maybe even a cut open human... with groans and blood... its all about the atmosphere 

'Kill me...'

I don't think there will be the kind of probes with 10 metres wide satellite dishes on them in this game :D
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#20 Ancalagon

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 04:44 PM

back to the aggresive animals. What if you get bitten by a snake which has deadly neuro-toxins? doesn't that leave you with like 3 seconds to live? also make sure there are only bodies in landed abductors, or ones that have crashed after previously landing. I mean, if the aliens crashed would they still decide to research alien corpses? Although it would take their minds of their situation... :idea:

#21 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 05:20 PM

I think it is longer than 3 seconds, more like a couple of hours tho there aint many poisonous snakes in England :P

#22 Jesus Escariut

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 06:13 PM

i believe the deadliest snake is the coral snake, and it takes 3 hours for death... though your paralyzied after 5 mins... so where is this super 3 second killer snake... a snake like that could rule the world... any way we are talking about rattle snakes and copper heads in most missions, and a bite from one of them isnt gonna kill you, if it does it takes days, not hours... ive been bitten by a copperhead when i was little i dont remember much of it since i had a fever of 106 but, im pretty sure i didnt die... and if i did this must be heaven cause were else would u have a xcom remake!?! O:)

#23 Ancalagon

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 06:17 PM

I don't know if this is true but according to my Brother The Australian Brown Snake injects a Nuero-toxin which unlike conventional poisons disables your nerves killing you the moment it reaches your brain or heart, which is only a mater of seconds.

EDIT: Never mind, but it still is pretty nasty
hrer is an excerpt from toxicology.com

Clinical effects

Perhaps because of their small fangs and relatively small amount of venom available, many brown snake bites are minor, not requiring antivenom therapy. Of course, this is not known initially, so all bites should be treated as potentially lethal. In the days prior to antivenom therapy less than 10% of brown snake bites were fatal. However, this low rate of lethality is more than compensated by the frequency of bites and when a brown snake does inject plenty of venom, it is both very toxic and rapid acting.

A typical brown snake bite is either painless or almost painless. The tiny fangs often leave only faint puncture or scratch marks, without local redness, bruising or swelling. Indeed, the bite can be hard to see without a magnifying glass. Do not be fooled; even such an apparently trivial looking bite can result in lethal envenoming, particularly in young children.

If a significant amount of venom has been injected, then the patient may develop local draining lymph node tenderness/swelling, a persistent ooze from the bite site, headache, nausea/vomiting, abdominal pain, severe coagulopathy and sometimes, kidney damage. Paralysis is also possible but is only rarely seen, even with otherwise severe envenoming. Myolysis does not occur. In young children and occasionally in adults, early collapse ± grand mal convulsions may occur. In cases where there has been massive envenoming such as with multiple bites, the early collapse may be associated with cardiac arrhythmias and even cardiac arrest, probably secondary to short-lived coronary vessel occlusion by thrombi generated by venom procoagulants.

However, it is coagulopathy which is the hallmark of brown snake envenoming. There is consumption of circulating fibrinogen, with production of breakdown products. The defibrination may be total within 30 mins of the bite. Fortunately, platelets are often not affected, at least initially. In these patients with complete defibrination, the INR will be >12 (actually infinity), the fibrinogen unmeasurably low and degradation products massively elevated. The patient is at risk of major haemorrhage and fatal intracerebral haemorrhages do occur. Anything causing hypertension is to be avoided. Antivenom is the best way to reverse this devastating coagulopathy but large amounts may be required. FFP is usually not needed and is contraindicated until all circulating venom has been neutralised with adequate antivenom, except if there is severe, life threatening haemorrhage.

For brown snake bites, the majority of patients will not need antivenom. However, if there is any evidence of either coagulopathy or kidney damage, antivenom is required. If systemic symptoms and coagulopathy are only mild (say INR >1.5 but <2.0), then an initial dose of 2 vials of CSL Brown Snake Antivenom may be sufficient. If, however, there is major coagulopathy, commence with 4 vials of antivenom and expect to give 2 to 6 more vials over the next few hours, titrated against coagulation results. Wait 3 hours before definitive retesting of coagulation to determine if more antivenom is required.

Kidney damage is the other major clinical problem of brown snake bite. It is mostly seen in adults, especially if they have had alcohol prior to the bite. Causation is uncertain, probably multifactorial, but may include direct nephrotoxic action of the venom, though this is, as yet, unproved. Early generous iv hydration in all cases of brown snake bite may reduce the chance of major kidney damage.

Edited by Ancalagon, 11 August 2003 - 06:32 PM.


#24 Jesus Escariut

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 06:36 PM

okay that sparked my intrest, so i did some research, it seems that the venom of the eastern brown snake (pseudonaja textilis, basically its part of the cobra family) is slow to produce effect, but once symptoms emerge they proceed with terrifying rapidity with death being sudden and unexpected part of the problem is that the early signs of the bite pathology closely resemble that of the occurrence of psychological shock and thus may be misdiagnosed.

Both developed cardiorespiratory failure within one hour of the bite, followed by coagulopathy and pulmonary oedema. One patient developed fulminant multiorgan failure.


still it took over an hour to die, not 3 seconds

#25 Ancalagon

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 06:45 PM

So I guess my brother was just spewing a bunch of Crap out his mouth
Oh well, but still, one of your soldiers might not know he had been bitten then BAM!!!
:explode:

Edited by Ancalagon, 11 August 2003 - 06:49 PM.


#26 Jesus Escariut

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 06:49 PM

and thats all part of my plan, if you dont treat your guys with med kit asap, you could lose them... just like a fatal wound, and since this is a very random occurance it wont be annoying

#27 Ancalagon

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 06:50 PM

EDIT: The problem is if it takes an hour for the bite to kill and a battle isonly a few minutes... your guys would be dropping dead on the way home!!!!
Maybe the aliens could genetically engineer brown snakes.

Edited by Ancalagon, 11 August 2003 - 07:01 PM.


#28 Jesus Escariut

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 06:57 PM

how do we know snake men are not brown snakes? then agian why do the snake men have no hand to hand.. they should have sumthin like a spray like a pit viper...

#29 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 12 August 2003 - 09:05 AM

I think that the snakemen should have hoods like cobras, it would make snakemen look more like well, snakes imo. I think that it would also inspire some fear in agents and players who have a fear of snakes.
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#30 Jesus Escariut

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Posted 12 August 2003 - 11:38 AM

and they should make a bunch of hissing noises, maybe some snakemen have rattles, i know when your out hiking a rattle snake's rattle gives you the chills... actually all aliens should make a bunch of noise... except sectoids cause all they would do is toot...

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#31 DG_Slider

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Posted 28 August 2004 - 11:14 PM

Instead of adding random animals why not just add a new troop called K-9 Handler. You would have to limit the number but he comes with a dog that will help locate aliens. Maybe have him move toward the nearest alien in the dog's range. You could give it 3-4 basic commands such as :

Seek - moves towards nearest alien in range.
Stay - doesn't move
Come - Dog returns to the handler
Attack - Dog will run and perform a physical attack on alien (of course, this will probably result in the dog's death next turn but it may have it's place in the game)

#32 Judge_Deadd

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Posted 29 August 2004 - 06:13 AM

EDIT: would you be able to give a cow a weapon and mind-control? Like the ones in the bonus level in diable 2?


Actually, there isn't such level in D2.

speaking about critters...
What if aliens mutate some Earth animals to make them dangerous beasts?
Imagine mutant bee swarms... Instant death :devillaugh:
or coma :zzzzz:
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#33 Snakeman

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Posted 29 August 2004 - 02:32 PM

I like this idea too.

If for no other reason, regardless of how dangerous the animal is, or how skittish they are, it puts more objects in there for each sides' soldiers to waste reaction fire on...

"Hey! What was that?!?"

BLAM BLAM BLAM

"Oh, was just a deer sir. Well, venizan (sp?) anyway."

"Great job doofus, now what'll you use on that Sectoid? Harsh language?"

*Commander punts rookiee in the chops*

"Now get out there and draw some fire will ya!"

I just think whether or not there are limits on the storage on your ship, you still risk wasted shots on things not even dangerous too you, simply because a few guys might be trigger happy and easily spooked :)

Makes for more fun when you go to click that turn button after so many spooks :)

As for mind control, I'd think that if your side can use it, so too should the aliens. And let's face it, it opens up some interesting failure scenarios too.

i.e. You failed to MC that rhino but the aliens do it successfully on their turn. Oops, so much for getting it to charge the bad guys, now it might charge you next turn :devillaugh:

I think it shouldn't be dooable on lesser creatures with not much brain in the first place, like snakes and such. Although, I wouldn't mind tweaking that in an editor just to see how many times I could get that snake to bite some bad guys :)

Might also give those PSI rookiees some needed practice anyway heh

Edited by Snakeman, 29 August 2004 - 02:35 PM.


#34 Paladin

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Posted 30 August 2004 - 07:15 AM

EDIT: would you be able to give a cow a weapon and mind-control? Like the ones in the bonus level in diable 2?


Actually, there isn't such level in D2.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OF COURSE THERE IS :stupid:
:LOL: You just need to know where to look :D
[offtopic_spoiler]
(actually, you need to finish the game, then use wirt's leg (found in Tristram) in the horadric cube with a TOME of town portal while inside the rogue encampment at the difficulty level you just finished the game, and Voilą!! A portal to the Moomoo farm, where TONS of mad cows will hunt you down with poleaxes... It's REAL tough teh first time you go there, and you can only go back if a friend brings you in... :D)
[/offtopic_spoiler]

Edited by Paladin, 30 August 2004 - 07:15 AM.

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#35 Judge_Deadd

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Posted 31 August 2004 - 06:28 AM

You've been there, Paladin?
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#36 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 31 August 2004 - 06:32 AM

You've been there, Paladin?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


It's real. I've been there. And I must admit that all the moooing is funny to listen to. "Moo, moo, moo. Moo I say..."
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#37 centurion

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Posted 31 August 2004 - 08:29 AM

"Moo, moo, moo. Moo I say..."

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#38 Paladin

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Posted 31 August 2004 - 08:42 AM

You've been there, Paladin?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Of course!! -_-

More than once! :naughty:
(either with friends or different characters :D)
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then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

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