5 replies to this topic

[Turbo Beholder]

Just re-played Enemy Unknown once, and when i researched alien antigrav thought struck - hey, it's low-inertial electromagnetic-to-force system ? Then it's nearly ideal target for magnetic impact. Just give it a good pulse, and it can happily jump out of UFO (crushing anything on its way). Or at very least it will instantly change direction of its pull... which will not be very pleasant for crew either.
So where's research of pulse MIRVs ? Yes, saucers are rather big, but with many warheads we have fair chance to hit something. And even for missed ones - magnetocumulative generator (perhaps cascaded) can be complemented with hard shrapnel, so it's not just waste of good RDX. BTW, such field causes enormous pressure on any conductors, so target's armor can be softened before AP fragments impact.
It hardly can do great harm to large UFOs (distance matters), but for small to medium it should be devastating.

Next was idle question: should Floater cyborg suddenly find itself in, say, 500 kilogauss field caused by 1m² inductor - whether it will be killed instantly with induced currents scorching its neural system, or with antigrav device jumping out of its body (considering field volume, there's no chance to miss), or it could survive long enough to die because of destroyed lifesupport ? And perhaps with good capacitors (pulse power source is needed anyway, for laser weapons, etc) this can be done clean and quiet way. No explosions, just some torn wire and jumping alien.

There also can be hand-held magnetic generators, but those hardly can be made wery efficient due to limited size and current.

As regards to MCG performance: as Maxwell Armada pointed out, radiation of EMP (which is microwave-amplifying version of MCG) can be stopped by thin layer of metal, UFO armor is more than enough as a screen. But unipolar magnetic pulse is used to magnetize massive metal objects: it have enough time to enter metal and go further, saturating material on its way (as opposed to microwaves limited to skin-layer). And 100 Tesla field only recently became obtainable in reusable way (just charge capacitor and do it again), while explosive flux compression allowed much greater fields long ago, all the more if cascaded. Say, not 1 megagauss, but 20, and not a large unique device, but simple scheme of sensible size, ready for mass-production ?..
Even if "Alien Alloys" armor have 2x more saturation induction to our magnetically soft alloys (quite unlikely), it will be just 2x height street curb facing tsunami.

[NRN_R_Sumo1]

The only use these weapons would have is against Androids, and Im sure by this time in the future they would have made the androids SAFE against magnets !
De-mag pads are very common, Im fairly sure they could strap on a guys head.

De-mag pads are the grey pads in stores if you didnt know
They simply make the magnetic strip in the packaging not magnetized, so that the magnetic alarm will not be activated.

Edit: You like explaining simple things in hard ways dont you? ..Well atleast you try to support your arguements unlike SOME people on here :O!

Edited by NRN_R_Sumo1, 30 April 2007 - 02:42 PM.

[Turbo Beholder]

The only use these weapons would have is against Androids

...or anything complex which contains electro-conductors. Even brass clockwork. Of course, electrotechnical devices are more vulnerable, whether electronics (as in those cyborgs) or power equipment. Microelectronics just burns under induced currents lesser than ones needed to spot-weld parts (which in turn requires lesser fields than magnetic impact extrusion of sheet metal... which is still far below magnetocumulative generators' capabilities).

and Im sure by this time in the future they would have made the androids SAFE against magnets !

Constant magnets have one relations to repeatable high-power magnetic pulse sources: such devices are used to make magnets. And haven't even this relation to single-use generators. Metal screens works good against high-frequency noises and magneto-soft screens are good vs. static magnets, but it's not so easy with really strong fields. Once saturation is reached, it's non-magnetic material against excess of field (it does not react any more).

De-mag pads are very common, Im fairly sure they could strap on a guys head.

Maybe, but i just don't see how mere degauss coil can protect any conductors around it from being either deformated by field pressure or heated by induced currents, even if coil itself will not suffer the fate of exploding wire.

Why repetitive 100 Tesla pulse magnet is an unique device, and even then ?is only rated for a 85 Tesla safe user operation? ? Because such field both induces great current, but also causes enormous pressure which most equipment cannot withstand without damage. Magnetic field pressure applies force to railgun's projectile, which allows acceleration greater than in traditional artillery, it also used in metal works (for pressing, impact-welding, and so on). But even those fields are not really high. Not anywhere near 100 Tesla (megagauss). While explosive magnetic generators (ready for mass-production, not some unique devices) are well capable to reach 20 - 30 MGs. Of course, such enormous values reached only in small area (work volume of "0.85 megagauss- safe" magnet is not room-sized either). But the same can create in greater volume lesser fields, but still stronger than in magnetic smithing devices (i.e. having considerable effect even on construction materials). Again, those EMGs are designed for specific tasks: for use in physical experiments. Note that existing EMG can have about 10% energy performance, but maximum overall energy converted and minimal size are not important optimization parameters, as it would be in warhead EMG.
Explosive-magnetic warhead should be compared to shaped charge: both needs to reach target, and do great local damage (and cause good critical damage), thus both are usable against targets too hard for shrapnel or small charges, while not big enough to make strong local impact insignificant.
IMO: while HEAT is better against small well-armored targets, EMG should be preferred against larger targets with moderate armor and lots of high-tech internals. If target is not a little volume cram-full of important equipment and crew (like tank), thin jet of HEAT probably will not pierce anyhing indispensable, and EMG is better against developed electrical power system (needs only to hit somewhere near cable) and able to weaken hull in a greater area. Small-to-medium UFOs from X-Com 1 matches conditions: has thin strong armor, and apparently most equipment and power network elements are placed right under skin - there's only one deck and few internal walls.

Edit: You like explaining simple things in hard ways dont you? ..Well atleast you try to support your arguements unlike SOME people on here :O!

I knew some hints are needed... Though didn't guessed that... to such a degree.

Edited by Turbo Beholder, 21 May 2007 - 04:37 PM.

[NRN_R_Sumo1]

Alright, I see your point on the exploding wire >.>..
But Still, the Alien weapons dont run on Batteries! XD!!!
I think that a magnetic Grapple would be more useful than a magno-gun of sorts..
Youcould hook the grapple into a wall, and shoot it off at an allied android, and hang him up like a painting! shooting at all that walks by.. ^.^

My mind is twisted, I hope you realize this.

[Exo2000]

Sure they do. They're just extremely advanced batteries.

[Turbo Beholder]

I see your point on the exploding wire >.>..

BTW, i found nice illustrations, just today: tesladownunder.com. Lots of stuff was vaporized, exploded, propelled, bend, etc. both with currents and with pure magnetic impacts, energy comparable with small arms. Fun of "the Easter Bunny meets 50 kA" sort.

But Still, the Alien weapons dont run on Batteries! XD!!!

They don't, but doubts about electromagnetic systems usage starts right from Elerium convertors.
Here's another good question: do Aliens use for power transfer and distribution the same electromagnetic methods or not ?
If not, it's more than doubtful that performance characteristics can be just the same, hence their solution should be better or worse for specific applications. If it worse somewhere (though it would be strange), they can borrow Human methods, and if it's better in any applications that matters, Human can (and should) borrow from Aliens ? though this should make any technology adaptation or borrowing much harder.
Here's no waiting for "Alien Navigation" or something like, because this affects not only craft drives. As soon as first weapon is analyzed, we have their approach to pulse power, and as soon as first saucer or floater cyborg or cyberdisc is analyzed we have their regular power solutions (starts from ?how saucer's hatch opens and closes?). And it's performance-determining part of almost every power-consuming device: there's lots of high-power systems in HWPs, crafts, laser weapons, etc. So if Alien version is noticeably better, we can upgrade nearly all our systems in the same broad group. E.g. even while we cannot levitate tank, we already can either make it run and turn faster, or make its power systems less bulky, thus saving space for better armor or better weapons...

I think that a magnetic Grapple would be more useful than a magno-gun of sorts..

It requires ferromagnetic target. While powerful pulses more or less kicks nearly anything. Anyway, it's mostly for saucers...