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XCOMUFO & Xenocide

Pistol and laser pistol: Are they reversed?


keybounce

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So today, I realized that the pistol and laser pistol look like they have the stats reversed for snap and aimed shot. The pistol is faster and more accurate than the laser pistol for these.

 

I know people feel that the normal pistol is overpowered for a starting weapon, and almost on par with the riffle. I know that the laser pistol is normally so wimpy that I never bother with it.

 

Now I think I see why.

 

If the stats for the pistol and LP are reversed, then the LP becomes worthwhile as a backup belt weapon, and the normal pistol is no longer such a killer weapon at the start of the game. And, it makes sense now to add an "auto" mode for the pistol -- representing rapid squeezing of the trigger without re-aiming accurately each time.

 

Comments?

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You've just tickled my fancy bone. Hopefully I'll be able to change your opinion on the laser pistol, as it's one of the weapons I often promote. I like the other two pistols too, but the laser pistol is the best all-rounder.

 

Technically the standard pistol isn't a strong starting weapon, as it is the weapon with the lowest damage in the game. The rifle on the other hand is weak, but considering it has an auto mode, can deal more damage than the pistol in a turn. The pistol mainly exists to be a better snap/reaction fire alternative to the rifle's auto/aimed advantage.

 

The laser pistol's 2% slower snap is a bit odd, but it is still faster than every other weapon in the game and it can match the pistol's ability to fire 5 snaps fired each turn from a standstill or through reaction fire. The basic pistol does have the edge in both reaction and normal attacks thanks to the 2% TU reduction, as it keeps your initiative just that little bit higher after each shot taken.

 

The lower accuracy is an issue with the laser pistol. In fact it is the least accurate weapon in the game. It does have three redeeming features that mitigate the low accuracy. High damage, infinite ammo and most importantly: speed. It is the single fastest auto shot weapon in the game, with the ability to pull off 4 bursts (12 shots) from a standstill. It's a bit of a sub-machine gun.

 

The damage per shot for a laser pistol, compared to a plasma pistol, is not high. However it can fire more times per turn and is strong enough to defeat every enemy on Superhuman with the exception of the Sectopod. I believe you can defeat a beginner level Sectopod by attacking it from the sides or the back.

 

So if we compare pistol and laser pistol, the laser pistol has a lot more positives points going for it than the basic pistol. The basic pistol primary feature is therefore just its better snap shot.

 

Now, getting back to your original question :D, if we swapped the firing stats, it would mean the basic rifle will become redundant, and the laser pistol would become the ultimate snap and reaction fire weapon, though it will no longer be as useful in close quarter combat having lost the auto mode.

 

- NKF

 

P. S: For the record, I'm not implying the laser pistol is the perfect weapon. It's just a much better weapon than the stats suggest it to be.

Edited by NKF
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Technically the standard pistol isn't a strong starting weapon, as it is the weapon with the lowest damage in the game. The rifle on the other hand is weak, but considering it has an auto mode, can deal more damage than the pistol in a turn. The pistol mainly exists to be a better snap/reaction fire alternative to the rifle's auto/aimed advantage.

Against the sectoids and floaters that you find in the beginning, pistols do plenty of damage.

 

I haven't played superhuman yet. But they don't seem to have any armor to speak of.

 

The laser pistol's 2% slower snap is a bit odd, but it is still faster than every other weapon in the game and it can match the pistol's ability to fire 5 snaps fired each turn from a standstill or through reaction fire. The basic pistol does have the edge in both reaction and normal attacks thanks to the 2% TU reduction, as it keeps your initiative just that little bit higher after each shot taken.

 

The lower accuracy is an issue with the laser pistol. In fact it is the least accurate weapon in the game. It does have three redeeming features that mitigate the low accuracy. High damage, infinite ammo and most importantly: speed. It is the single fastest auto shot weapon in the game, with the ability to pull off 4 bursts (12 shots) from a standstill. It's a bit of a sub-machine gun.

 

But here is the issue -- the laser pistol is supposed to be faster and more accurate than the normal pistol.

 

Now, getting back to your original question :D, if we swapped the firing stats, it would mean the basic rifle will become redundant, and the laser pistol would become the ultimate snap and reaction fire weapon, though it will no longer be as useful in close quarter combat having lost the auto mode.

 

I meant, swap the snap and aimed. Keep the LP's auto.

 

Does it make the riffle obsolete? Fine. Why not? It's time consuming and expensive to make.

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XCOM is already very well balanced

so making ANY changes may ruin other 'concepts' of the game

 

I my opinion swapping stats between both pistols

will pretty much just reverse their uses

personally ... I would just stay with ... laser rifle ^_^ instead

 

but, If I have to choose only between standard pistol or laser pistol

laser pistol wins ( bei mir :) ) almost always

 

the only exception is ... when I want firing accuracy/reaction training

 

here you want to hit alien multiple times, not to kill it

so pistol lower damage wins over laser pistol,

additionally reaction shots are always snap shots

so 2% difference between both pistols doesn't matter so much here

 

and pistol ammo clip serves nicely as ... experience counter :)

cause 11 is needed for max possible stat gain

 

yarrow

Edited by yarrow
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Against the sectoids and floaters that you find in the beginning, pistols do plenty of damage.

I haven't played superhuman yet. But they don't seem to have any armor to speak of.

 

As the first few aliens you meet, they are unfortunately the easy-to-kill species, and like your beginner soldiers rely almost entirely on luck to survive! ;) Their terror units however are a different story.

 

Keep in mind alien armour levels on beginner difficulty are half their normal values. They don't have a lot to begin with but on any level but beginner that little bit more armour does help against the basic pistol/rifle. Aliens also have more health on higher levels.

 

 

Hmm, it might be worth your time to start a new game and spend the first two or three months with just pistols and laser pistols as your main firearms to get a feel for how they handle. Might be a good opportunity to test out superhuman as well. Just be sure to have laser pistols before attending to terror sites - they're massacres otherwise.

 

But here is the issue -- the laser pistol is supposed to be faster and more accurate than the normal pistol.

 

That's certainly what it implies in the Ufopaedia, but I think the game designers made a game balance choice to drop their accuracy slightly to balance their stronger qualities. In a way, it gives the player the choice to keep using the older weapons in favour of their better accuracy until the plasma weapons are researched, or go with the higher firepower of the laser weapons. (Even with the Heavy Laser vs. Heavy Cannon, it's about firepower vs. accuracy)

 

I guess you could say that laser pistols (and laser rifles) have a better 'to-hit-once' probability than the basic weapons because of their high rate of fire.

 

I meant, swap the snap and aimed. Keep the LP's auto.

 

Does it make the riffle obsolete? Fine. Why not? It's time consuming and expensive to make.

 

My comment was on the assumption you included the auto mode as well. If included, you can easily ignore the rifle's auto and aimed mode in favour of the pistol's higher rate of fire. The rifle would still have bigger clips and do 0 - 8 extra damage per bullet.

 

If we only swap the single-shot modes, then the pistol would no longer be unique but would still be a decent snap weapon. In fact, it would still be better than TFTD's dart gun, so I guess it wouldn't be that bad! :D Aimed mode would be its weakest trait.

 

The laser pistol on the other hand would be greatly enhanced. Even the aimed mode would be much more useful than it was on the pistol thanks to the higher damage. Perhaps this is too much of a good thing?

 

 

additionally reaction shots are always snap shots

so 2% difference between both pistols doesn't matter so much here

 

It's a small difference but that 2% does build up after every shot. From 0%, 2%, 4%, 6% and 8% on the fifth shot, meaning your ability to react on the fifth shot will be 8% better with the pistol than with the laser pistol. All it really means is that you may sometimes get one extra shot in earlier between attacks.

 

- NKF

Edited by NKF
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Actually, I'm wondering about "making the riffle obsolete".

 

The riffle's reason for being, as far as I've been using it, is the aimed shot bonus.

 

When you need "one shot, it's dead", to avoid reaction fire, that is the choice of choice for me. (At least, for beginning aliens. Not so on the nastier ones.)

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I must admit I play Superhuman more often than beginner, so I'm looking at it from that perspective. It's mainly the low damage combined with the extremely expensive cost of the rifle's aimed mode that I find to be a bad combination.

 

- NKF

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True, that's something only the programmers would truly know. As for us, we can only justify how we personally feel about them based off our own experiences.

 

I suppose it depends on how you interpret accuracy. From a sharpshooter's point of view, where every bullet counts, or whether just being able to hit the target is sufficient, regardless of how many attempts were made. Either way you will be deemed to have hit the target with the weapon as long as a bullet manages to connect. Or how much accuracy 1% of your TUs is worth perhaps?

 

Either way, from a personal viewpoint, I think the two pistols are just right as they are. TFTD's Dart Gun on the other hand... no I don't think I'll agonise over it. :D

 

- NKF

Edited by NKF
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I agree with NKF

XCom is about missed shots, NOT sniper hits :D :D :D

 

as for dart guns, well ... I prefer them ... yes ... I prefer !!!

for ... training firing accuracy/reaction

they are the BEST weapon in this role

( and I will 'antagonize over it' :D )

 

too bad that ( in terror ) they fixed alien inventory exploit :(

so reaction training is a bit harder, than in ufo ( XCom 1 )

 

if someone will restore this exploit in terror ( XCom 2 )

please let me know !!

 

say .... xcomutil uption to ... restore alien inventory exploit

this would be ... yummy ^_^

 

ha, perhaps I should start new topic about this :D

 

yarrow

Edited by yarrow
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I suppose it depends on how you interpret accuracy. From a sharpshooter's point of view, where every bullet counts, or whether just being able to hit the target is sufficient, regardless of how many attempts were made. Either way you will be deemed to have hit the target with the weapon as long as a bullet manages to connect.

 

Accuracy: Your ability to hit the specified target, without hitting friendlies in the way.

 

Dozen shots with a laser pistol: Hit everyone, friends included.

 

Single aimed shot with a laser guided riffle: Just the alien, not your friends.

 

Or do you toss grenades into close combat? (There is the "kaboom only" scenario, after all :-)

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Pistols and grenades go well together. Rocket launchers and high explosives are great for corner combat inside the UFO. Auto cannons with HE Shells fired from a few tiles away? Yep. But of course, only when power suits are around. Doing it in no armour or personal armour is silly. :D

 

There's all sorts of things to consider when picking what firing mode to use, ways to maximise their effectiveness as well as precautions to take. Regardless of how good or bad the attack, accidents can happen if we're careless.

 

And Yarrow, it's not really all about missed shots. There's just different ways to get the same result. They're not all wrong and at the same time not all 100% right either. You could stake all your time units on a single well aimed shot that could miss, or in lots of shots that give you lots of chances to hit despite most of the shots having a much wider firing arc. Or just give up deciding and toss a grenade instead, and risk it falling a few feet away and no way to escape from it. :D Choices, consequences. I do enjoy this game.

 

- NKF

 

P. S: Sorry, after having had a bath and some time to think, I must admit I'm mixing together probabilities and accuracy here. They work together, certainly, but aren't necessarily the same.

Edited by NKF
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if you auto-shot from behind

than do-not be surpised that you hit friendlies

you should rather expected that :D

 

 

simple accuracy is not sufficient in XCom

you choose to shot ( or not to shot ) by few things, not just the 'accuracy'

 

- tactical position ( front line or from behind )

- distance to target + line of fire + alien line of sight

- soldier and weapon accuracy + bonuses - penalites

- time units left + shot mode ( auto, snipe, aimed )

- and other considerations

( like sacrificing rookies just to get the navigator )

 

 

NKF, you are right

it's not about the misses, it's about the overall fun ^_^

 

look at the bright side

aliens misses too, haha :D

 

yarrow

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look at the bright side

aliens misses too, haha :D

 

yarrow

Except ...

 

Last battle I had a tank to protect my soldiers.

It moved, found an enemy (good), drew reaction fire (good), which missed (better), and hit my soldier (ouch).

 

Oh: I just realized:

 

When I talked about beginning aliens, I meant sectoids and floaters, not beginner v. super human.

Edited by keybounce
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I thought I'd actually try a pistol with the laser pistol firing modes.

 

The first test was a disaster as I was re-familiarising myself with the game (haven't played properly in a couple of months), but later missions were actually quite fine. I played very carelessly and just used a spray-and-pray approach, with some snaps thrown in. I normally mix in grenades, but I left them out this time.

 

It actually went quite well, with fairly normal losses. Superhuman sectoids were being dropped anywhere between 1 - 3 hits. Accuracy was terrible, which is normal at the start of the game, but even when it was as low as 10% accuracy, shots were somehow landing.

 

From the auto aspect, it went through ammo fast, which I guess is in better favour of the rifle. The drop in power also meant it was not as impressive as the laser pistol.

 

If you just talk about snaps and reaction fire, it seemed to fare almost like it normally did, just lower accuracy.

 

If I get some time I might do this over again with the laser pistol using the pistol firing modes.

 

- NKF

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