28 replies to this topic

[Adun_Toridas]

Think it would be a good idea to have some policemen in Terro Sites to help X-COM Units... Those would be independent units armed with only pistols and rifles... but would go over there and try to kill some aliens. Again your opinions.

[mikker]

i think it's a good idea. Although they should have riffles that are 50% the strengh of your pistols. They shouldn't be able to kill anything.

[Blehm 98]

i don't think so

a good shotgun or sniper rifle could probably do some major damage

and don't forget, they probably have assault rifles, which can do more damage than a normal rifle

[Adun_Toridas]

so, he might be helpful.

[Cpl. Facehugger]

i don't think so

a good shotgun or sniper rifle could probably do some major damage

and don't forget, they probably have assault rifles, which can do more damage than a normal rifle

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They have police versions of military weapons, in rare cases. They certainly don't have access to the top of the line equipment that the X-Corps would.

In addition, police snipers are usually only called in during a hostage situation or similar crisis, they aren't adapted to fight the highly mobile room-room fighting that X-Corps troops have to engage in on a regular basis.

[sir_schwick]

Or some sheriff on the rural maps. Maybe farmers with pitchforks.

[dipstick]

I thought there were many many threads based on this, but still.

I agree on this, I think, esp on beginner, there should be military or civilian backup. I think they should have basic civ stats, maybe Tshirts for police, and should actively aid in defense of civs and your troops. I mean, an UFO is just going to land, and NOONE goes to look at it??!


Edit: damned typo...

Also, I think backup should be a consideration in the geoscape, like aftermath.

If two ships are downed, one in europe, one in africa, a message may come up with ' UFO 23 is being assaulted by French police'

Later..

'UFO 23 is repelling french police, the military is being called in'

Later

'The French military attacking UFO 23 are urgently calling for backup. Assistance is required immediately....'

Edited by dipstick, 18 January 2005 - 03:03 PM.

[mikker]

a better form of millitary backup on beginner is a great idea. I agree on mad farmers with winchesters or something along those lines.

[Snakeman]

@dipstick.

I like the nations' police/military status messages. I was thinking too along these lines that, maybe their actions could delay the crash site from disappearing long enough for you to do something about it. Not long mind you, but could last longer than the normal duration for a crash site not visited by you.

Your right too that there are other threads about this, and one of the arguments for extra help I've commented on as well. My general thoughts on whether they can eventually use better weapons or not should probably relate correlatively to how much excess stuff you sell to the black market (particularly weapons).

They don't have to get these things fast necessarily, but could show a progressive aquisition element over time by how many sites with civ/military/police are supposed to be present (you could further accentuate this by what year it currently was at that point in the alien war before you'd start to see some in their inventories).

I've also always thought that also tieing in their hostility or friendliness towards X-COM should be linked with the funding level (or lack thereof) of the country the mission is taking place in. This way there could be a flip side to selling weapons on the market, but along with that, the usual cons of not dealing with aliens in a funding country who was on the verge of pulling it. So I like the potential backup prospects, but more importantly what I like is that this could turn on you if you let things slide from performance standpoint in that nation's view of you.

Now throw in some average stat'd cop/military units who could help or hinder you, and that might make terror sites a little more lively.

I also have a thread going in the labs about rookie washouts for anyone interested in that. In that one I was positing where our sacked rookies could turn up. Like the way this thread is discussing, one place I thought they might could be as an occasional extra unit to control, just for the duration of some missions to lend a hand (as opposed to a neutalish AI controlling them like the police), and also basing their attitude towards you based on the funding level of the country he's in.

The one point about sacked rookies I wanted to make more interesting though, was being able to train them prior to sacking them, so that they retain those stats when they make their friendly and/or enemy cameos through the course of the game, so that, in another sense, regardless of difficulty, you could make your self a game that's more challenging just by training then firing off rookies who would later show up and cause you grief on occasion.

[ATeX]

What about cooperation with government instances instead of just the police (military, FBI, CIA, state police, etc)? When playing at beginners level you get a lot of help and at superhuman the biggest military forces have already been taken down by the aliens. Something like that. It definitely adds a lot of realism. What do you think?

cheers,
ATeX


edit: added some more

Edited by ATeX, 19 January 2005 - 04:40 AM.

[mikker]

i agree. On most, a few policemen with pistols would be hanging arround on superhuman.

Also, maybe you can find broken military equiptment scattered arround the field?

[Snakeman]

@mikker

Like your last comment about found stuff on the battlefield. I suppose that should depend on what kind of map spawns for the city setting i.e. what sort of buildings should be present for you to find for instance, a cash of standard pistols, rifles, ammo, and perhaps high explosives if we're talking a map where the military shows themselves if not the police.

Another thought that's been mentioned before too which I kinda like as well, since it gives another reason to have other units present, civs, cops, military and/or even the occasional rookie washout...and that's missions like counter intel where you might need to protect a government's leader (maybe these could be the sort of 'defend the home of the president' type maps where its his house, or a bunker type setting), or to take out the infiltrated turncoat leader and his forces to plant your own leader (to correct for a country that had signed a pact already to regain its funding).

Again though, whether they'd be helpful to you or not it would use the funding level as the happy/pissed off 'o meter, so that if its the later type of mission for instance, your fighting earth forces plus any aliens that show up. Then of course go by whatever year its been in the war (more towards the end when the general public "gets a clue") and you've sold a lot of weapons, you start to see them use them.

In the first game too, I noticed a progression somewhat with regard to terror sites. Before a country would fall, I've noticed that if the country has more than one city, you'll see them attempt to land at most if not all of them. I think a fun progression here, more for the sake of helping the player by giving him a visual clue too that things are sliding down hill, is that when a country is on the verge of signing a pact, when you hit that site, your fighting both the aliens and the police/military.

Anyway, even if there weren't a mission to protect or supplant a leader, I really like the value of the one above. I'm big on visual ques that things are going a certain way. Its much easier than tracking and trying to understand activity graphs.

[Adun_Toridas]

I´ve got something. What about military carrying laser weapons and personal coracee (Alien alloys)? I mean, because the real purpose of XCOM is to defeat the alien and research new tecnology.

So the guys in the goverments might ask XCOM ones to lend them some of their toys... and also some tanks.

[sir_schwick]

Maybe at some point you could sell your designs to the highest bidder for royalties. THese royalties would bring in huge cash and give you a discount when buying them from the manufacturer. Imagine being able to order 'Laser Pistols/Rifles/Heavies/Repeaters/Swords', 'Laser Tanks', 'Personal Armour', etc. Then your engineers could work on the important stuff.

[mj_12commando]

Yeah. I suggest a few levels of NPC power and equipment.

From weakest to strongest...
Armed Civilian: Won't have much more than maybe a shotgun or a pistol. No armor, and little physical toughness (We're talking 0/0/0/0 armor here!) Will be nearly as dangerous to his side as to the enemy.

Gangster: Slightly better equipped, but also generally will be hostile to X-Com. However, killing them will not penalize you in the slightest. Also hostile to the aliens, too, so...

Police: Decently well trained, and with a basic armor vest, but still nowhere near enough to start taking out aliens. Might have a semi-auto rifle, a SMG, or a shotgun, and a pistol.

Military: A standard military soldier. Flak vest, assault rifles, and grenades. Don't panic much, fairly accurate, but not on the X-Com level.

SWAT: These would be similar to military, except with a bit more armor.

Rangers/SEALS/Special Forces: These would have stats comparable to X-Com soldiers. These dudes would be able to fight aliens like X-Com, save for their suck equipment.

They might also have things like vehicles you couldn't bring. For example, if Military were there, they might have a MBT, which you wouldn't be able to lift in, because it'd be too massive. They'd have things you woudn't normally get, like MBTs, APCs, and goodies like that. X-Com is a fast special forces team, with very good light infantry. The Military has the BIG GUNS.

Also, if you have a country that's really friendly, you might be able to get military reinforcements on a crash zone, including said MBTs. They'd be earth tech only, sure, but they're so much larger than X-Com HWPs...

And, that also gives me ideas.

Perhaps if you landed in a country that didn't like you too much, you'd be forced to contend against hostile military also fighting the aliens as well as you?

Of course, at the start they wouldn't be overpowering, and near the end they'd be pitiful, when all of your soldiers can take hits that would gut tanks and deal them back twice over... but, it'd be interesting, if you're planning on taking that small UFO easily with your new power armor and heavy plasmas, and then...

"HALT! This craft is the property of the Republic of Exampleistan! You should leave now!"

Your options would then be...

1. Leave.

2. Do the world a favor and exterminate people stupid enough to attempt to fight a force with tech orders of magnitude better than you.

Then, you might get demands for reparations if you choose 2.

If you refuse to pay them, you may get human raids on your bases.

Sure, they'd be mere nuisances in the late game, when bullets and grenades would do nothing to your soldiers, but in the early game, they'd be a credible threat.

Especially if your base was in their territory. Then you'd have tanks knocking on your door.

[GARAK]

I know everyone is tired of me and wants me to go away.... but I can't.
I think I said this before. I love the idea of civilians and limited military involvement in the game. The pop up messages about the status of that is also a great idea and builds immersion. I just don't think xcorp should fight humans. The aliens are supposed to be a secret, even withing the "controlled" countries. The police probably wouldn't know about their government's involvement with the aliens. If they did then everyone on the planet would know about the alient threat. Think about how many cops there are. Over 20,000 in New York City alone.

I don't like the idea of the governments acquiring alien tech either. Hear me out. If they have enough alien stuff where cops or their military have it, then they must be making it themselves, in which case, xcorp wouldn't be able to sell anything because everyone would already have it after a few months. I would rather keep it the same as the original. I can't survive on nation funding alone. Ideas like this sound good, but they open a pandora's box of realism. Well this or that would be more realistic. After awhile you would have to recreat the entire earth and everyone on it, because after all, that would be the most realistic.

[T-1]

I know everyone is tired of me and wants me to go away.... but I can't.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not at all, you're quite welcome here.

I just don't think xcorp should fight humans. The aliens are supposed to be a secret, even within the "controlled" countries. The police probably wouldn't know about their government's involvement with the aliens. If they did then everyone on the planet would know about the alien threat. Think about how many cops there are. Over 20,000 in New York City alone.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1. Most of the ideas in the laboratories probably will never get implemented, they're just fun to talk/argue about.
2. If they do, there'll be a little checkbox in the options menu to turn all this fancy stuff off and just play some good old UFO.
3. Even if you don't turn it off you don't HAVE to fight humans if you don't make enemies.
4. Police don't know, they just got kind of caught at the crash site/terror site.

I don't like the idea of the governments acquiring alien tech either. Hear me out. If they have enough alien stuff where cops or their military have it, then they must be making it themselves, in which case, xcorp wouldn't be able to sell anything because everyone would already have it after a few months.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Alien tech requires xenium. Who can acquire xenium? X-Corps. Also, You could control whether to give tech to people or not. It's your decision.

I can't survive on nation funding alone.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You don't need to. You can continue to get better tech to sell, there will always be people that don't have it. You can always sell xenium. You can always rob banks. You can always take countries over and use their entire tax income to fund x-corps and let the country decay. The point is freedom. You don't HAVE to do it, but you CAN.

Ideas like this sound good, but they open a pandora's box of realism. Well this or that would be more realistic. After awhile you would have to recreate the entire earth and everyone on it, because after all, that would be the most realistic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why would you have to recreate the entire earth?

[GARAK]

The "recreating the earth" thing was more of an exageration, I got carried away. I'm being a little selfish. Let me explain, if the xenocide team, of which I am not a part of sadly, is working hard to make a great game. I'm sure they can do a good job, as they have done so far. The current rate of progress suggests a long development time. The implementation of even 10% of the suggestions would probably take many years. I do understand however, that there is V1 and V1+ versions planned. I just get nervous. Its like any other game you might follow on the net, and you cringe when you see something you don't like. Anyone who has ever played Thief 3 and realized they removed rope arrows would feel the same way.
I'll try harder to respect the free sharing of ideas, the very point of these forums.
Oh, and tanks attacking an xcorp base would be interesting mj 12 commando.

[kelfka]

I don’t think that the aliens invading earth is a very big secret.
1) Selling advanced weapons
2) selling dead aliens bodies for study in universities
3) terror sites survivors will tell there story
4) there are UFO sitings every where
5) and once a month a whole major city block goes to heck, and the survivors all say they saw aliens fighting a group of humans that landed on a ship in the street.

I don’t think the police would be a good idea.
Well a first they could help a little, but soon they would be a mere distraction or even an annoyance.

Sergeant : - Private!! Why haven't you FIRED!?!? I told you to fire when the gray got into the house!
Private: - But sir, they are police men on the outside wall of the house trying to kill the alien.
Sergeant: - Give me that Gravity Distortion Launcher!

[GARAK]

There are plenty of sightings today of both the mibs and aliens. Ships of all different shapes and sizes. People getting abducted. Even nasa footage of what looks like a ufo getting shot at by a particle beam. (look it up). Its been going on for years. INDIADAILY.com has an article every other day about humans adapting alien technology.
I've seen several air force and navy pilots give testimony. I've seen doctors and town sheriffs. Rich and poor people. People in other countries.

YET I DON'T BELIEVE ANY OF IT!!!! And neither do most people on the planet. I don't think a few street battles would change much. All you have are eyewitness accounts and some plasma burn marks. Maybe some blown up buildings. Xcorp doesn't leave anything except the rifle casings and civilian bodies. No hard evidence. If the governments were trying at all to cover it up they could easily do it.

[kelfka]

There are plenty of sightings today of both the mibs and aliens. Ships of all different shapes and sizes. People getting abducted. Even nasa footage of what looks like a ufo getting shot at by a particle beam. (look it up). Its been going on for years. INDIADAILY.com has an article every other day about humans adapting alien technology.
I've seen several air force and navy pilots give testimony. I've seen doctors and town sheriffs. Rich and poor people. People in other countries.

YET I DON'T BELIEVE ANY OF IT!!!! And neither do most people on the planet. I don't think a few street battles would change much. All you have are eyewitness accounts and some plasma burn marks. Maybe some blown up buildings. Xcorp doesn't leave anything except the rifle casings and civilian bodies. No hard evidence. If the governments were trying at all to cover it up they could easily do it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't either, but it think that if there was a real invasion going on there would be hard evidences coming out.

Edited by kelfka, 25 May 2005 - 06:24 PM.

[T-1]

The thing is, the aliens do most of their jobs stealthily, which makes covering it up a lot easier. The terror sites seem more like "this is what we COULD do on a much larger scale" sort of statement. As I said, most of the stuff discussed in the laboratories will never get implemented, except MAYBE for things that are relatively easy to do, and most people agree on. And if they implement 10% of the stuff we talk about here, I'd be very very very impressed. In fact, I'd be extremely happy with the game.

[doubleSkulls]

Why am I getting the image of the police arresting King Arthur in Monty Python's Holy Grail or, "Ah, Mr Grey, your Spaceship appears to be parked on a double yellow line. Here's a ticket"

[GDD]

too many ideas in one thread.

I do think it would be good to have a cop or too maybe just a squad car on a terror site.

as for military action that sounds good too. (plus be good if you had to handle a bunch of troops which have been got at by ethrills)

[Snakeman]

Not to mention, even more potential Zombie fodder for any Chryzzies present. See, that's another good reason to mix up alien crews/assignments a bit more. With some enemies, that real sense of danger is missing. I vote more Chryzzies sprinkled liberally throughout every mission type on harder settings!

Armed cops or military on some of these maps, oh pshaw! Just balance things with a half dozen or more Chryzzies! Its unlikely too many of their weapons how ever concentrated would take more than a couple out before its Zombie City

[Teh Z]

Or some sheriff on the rural maps. Maybe farmers with pitchforks.

comming from a rural area, i can tell you now, if something crash lands or decides to start rampageing in a rural area you know what is going to happen?

EVERYBODY is going to come out with every gun they've got and then those freaking aliens will be less concerned with the super cool commando guys, and realise the horde of people with shotguns, rifles, pistols, pipe bombs, left over fireworks, and the several hundred thousand rouns of ammunition. Think of the time the University of Texas was besieged by a sniper, you know what happened? everybody went home, got their guns and shot back.

[Patrick1994]

Still,
if there should be military when you land in a terror site lets say: Californa, Compton
Military vs Gangsters vs X-Com vs Aliens it would be and all out war BUT! you should be able to reason with gangsters such as Giving them money or a laser pistol or somehing and gaining control of them
although Military would be AI Controlled and they would give you cover fire , move with squad not under control.
And in terror missions Military should have a Small Camp in the park or so consisting of 5 soldiers with Assualt Rifles and Grenades and Heavy Explosives.
And you land inside the camp so your not ambushed when you hop outa ship like having a blaster bomb fly into space ship and kill all of people (WHICH I HAVE HAPPEN!!!! AND LOST BIG MONEY AND A AVENGER!!)
and the aliens should attack camp instead of you.
POLICE on the other hand should have small police cars witch they use to herd people into and drive away thus reducing points and giving points.
POLICE would also help by giving ammo for human weapons such as a Pistol clip or grenade.
this would help alittle at start of game but has you progress police and Military bases should come up on map and citys should have an icon showing it is protected.
Farmland: Farmers and Local Sheirfs.
Farmers with Shotguns and remember this isnt 1940 its 1999 - 2006 give them a nice 9mm or a good m21 sniper rifle
they should only help and protect their house. the end


IT TOOK ME 5 MINUTES TO WRITE THIS POST!!

[GARAK]

I don't think gangsters would necessarily fight the aliens. Most of them are like scared children and they can't shoot a barn from the inside.

It took 16 seconds to write this post! heehe

[kashyyk]

i agree.

it took 5 secs to write this post