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Thoughts about XCOM2: TFTD


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#1 kzsoci

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 12:28 PM

Hi,

after defeating the alien mastermind on Mars (and winning UFO: Enemy Unknown) I decided to play XCOM2, too. I know it's much harder. But I think I will be able to get to T'Leth. :) I've read through the Unofficial Strategy Guide, this forum and watched several videos on youtube. :)

If you don't mind, I would like to write some thoughts that come to my mind during playing this game. I'd be very pleased if you also commented here and we discussed some issues. Maybe you could help me (like you did at the first part), maybe I could tell some things that others find useful. :)

I've also been knowing this game for like fourteen years (I recall reading an article about the game when it came out; there were like a hundred tips; it might be useful but I don't find that magazine anymore :( - so actually, I've been knowing it for ever :) ). I played it for a short time then, I got some saved games of other people as well, but I never got to T'leth. I liked the music and the creepy atmosphere though. :)

Now, I've begun a game in beginner mode. I think I will have opportunity to play harder if I win this. My first base is at Japan. I already did the normal procedure at the beginning (sacking weaklings, building important structures, researching Gauss technology etc etc.).

My first mission was at a landed small USO. During this I invented a tactic which I can use until my people get better stats and better weapons: two "scouts" with jet harpoon are searching for aliens and a "sniper" with gas cannon and fair firing accuracy is behind them to snipe if the scouts manage to find somebody. Okay, it isn't a very new and original invention, I admit, but I didn't use this in UFO since most of my people had a quite identical role there (they were only diversified to "psi-warriors" and "others" at the very end). But these puny weapons and the labyrinth-like scene cause this to be done.

I already have someone special: he has quite good stats and is very lucky. He finished the second mission by killing the two remaining aquatoids in one turn by reaction fire! I liked that. :)

Now, I am in a terror mission in NY against gillmen and deep ones. I desperately want to catch a deep one alive, because I read that they are very important and they will appear only for a short period of time...

It's quite interesting that it's like end of january and I only saw a very small USO, two small USOs and this terror mission. It seems that alien activity is high in northern pacific but I cannot do anything about it...

Edited by kzsoci, 13 March 2011 - 03:07 PM.


#2 yarrow

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 02:54 PM

( continuing from ufo ;) )

dart guns are the most extreme :D weapons of both ufo and terror!!!
same as EVERY stick has two ends :)

extremely .... useless .... if you want to kill ... even aquatoid
extremely ... USEFUL!!! .... if you want to train accuracy/reaction

I sell them in the beginning ( cause of storage space limitation )
and buy 2-3 of them per squad ( every other aquanaut carry ammo magazine to reload )
when Mag. Ion Armor comes online

yarrow

#3 NKF

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 12:37 AM

Dah - didn't see this. Put my reply in the other one. Nevermind - it's just my usual pro-pistol spiel anyway. ;)

Yes the weapon sets here are a bit more interesting, and you generally have to make use of a combination of equipment. You can't always arm everyone with one type of weapon, even the Sonic weapons require you mix in some pistols and rifles as the cannons are so exhausting to use (though simply amazing in the hands of really accurate aquanauts).

One tip: Sonic Pulser. Put all your research into that weapon as early as you can and you will not regret it.

Good luck on the game. I've also been (re) playing this game recently by way of participating in the multiplayer after-action report game that's currently on Strategycore. It's hard, but lots of fun.

- NKF

Edited by NKF, 14 March 2011 - 12:38 AM.

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#4 kzsoci

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 07:06 AM

I finished the terror mission. I thought that I captured a deep one alive, because when he was shot with jet harpoon by reaction fire, he didn't scream while collapsing... By the way, I like the death scream of the deep ones the most. :) So I hope I will able to get another one, because it will suck if not.

It was quite boring to find the last alien... He was hiding in a small cabin, I realized where he is only when he paniced, and the map showed the surroundings... And this will get worse, I presume. It will be very dull to find the last paniced tasoth in the hundred rooms of a cruiser ship...

I really should research sonic pulser, because the original grenade is nothing - a gillman stood behind an open door, a grenade fell on the other side, and the door protected him...

Edited by kzsoci, 14 March 2011 - 07:11 AM.


#5 Andy

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 08:09 AM

you might wanna read about the research bugs in the game, just so it doesn't prevent you from finishing the game. NOTE: Spoilers.

#6 NKF

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Posted 15 March 2011 - 01:50 AM

In the game we're playing, Superhuman Gillmen are quite resistant to the basic Magna-Blast grenades. From my own experience, I was finding that one Magna-Blast just wasn't enough to take down the Gillmen most of the time. You had to follow it up with a shot or throw two magna-blasts at it simultaneously.

The Magna-Pack Explosives are harder to use but much better. The pulsers rock.

One tip: In base defense missions, your base walls are much weaker than they were in UFO. A sonic pulser thrown in the middle of a base corridor will blow away all cover on either side. Not saying you shouldn't use them, just to be careful.

On a similar note, on land missions, keep strong explosives away from the Triton. You can blow it to pieces if you're not careful. It will still fly home and not sustain any damage in the Geoscape, but you will lose your safe-haven in the battle. This only happens on land, not when under water.

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#7 yarrow

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Posted 15 March 2011 - 02:46 AM

as 'Andy' pointed about bugs, the one attached to deep one
can prevent you from completing the game

perhaps you should consider to replay your terror mission again
one live deep one ( and its corpse ) is CRUCIAL to completing the game

you need only one, if reasearching things in correct order
so to be safe capture another one


as for death sounds
in general they are better than in ufo, in my opinion of course ;)
<technically> :)
they are better separated by frequency, from other sounds/music of the game
</technically>

:D ignorant version is :D
you always hear when alien dies


my favourite top 3 are:
1.) lobster man
2.) tasoth
3.) tentaculat

and since you will find them all in alien colonies ^_^ ... yooo ... I love alien colonies :D

yarrow

#8 kzsoci

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 11:41 AM

Hi!

I haven't been playing for a month or so, but now I'm doing it again. I love it. :)

I've managed to capture a living deep one (two, actually, but one of them was only an accident :D ). Hooray. :)

Why do I write a comment now? I've been assaulting a medium aquatoid submarine. It was a quite nice shooting practice for our divers, I shot cca. 7-8 aquatoids around the ship, it was fun. Meanwhile, they were trying to panic (or mind control?) my best soldier, but he is brave, so his moral never got less. :)

We went into the submarine, and what happened? I saw this kind of arrangement for the first time, I thought this big hall was nice. First, I saw a monster on the first floor, I shot him, ok. End of turn. Another aquatoid sneaked into the small room below the stairs, I placed two-two soldiers in front of both doors. And what did happen? That stupid ***hole did a kamikaze-attack blowing up the whole hall with his disrupter pulse launcher. :cussing:

Sometimes the sectoid commanders did similar suicide-attacks at bases in UFO, but this sucks. :P

Edited by kzsoci, 29 April 2011 - 12:45 PM.


#9 kzsoci

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 03:15 AM

Yeah.

I've done my first lobster man mission. :) I was looking forward to it very much, and I liked it. :D

These lobsters are my favorite aliens in this game, their picture in usopaedia is very cool, and I've seen in videos on youtube, they are quite tough.

Well, maybe because I'm playing in beginner level, or I had luck, but it was very easy. It was an escort. The first lobster was not far from the door of the triton: I stunned him with two hits from a sonic cannon. I began to deploy the troops, then in the first alien turn another one came by, he was shot with sonic cannon (reaction fire), and he got stunned from a single shot as well. The third one was constantly going into its ship and leaving it, I started to get a bit closer with six men every turn, but I always left time to reaction fire. I had luck, he fired twice, but none of us got hit, but we hit him twice or three times (sonic cannon reaction fire), and then he roared and collapsed. :)

#10 kzsoci

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 06:16 AM

Howdy!

Since the last comment I haven't made a large progression in the game, although I did win a lot of Lobsterman Missions. I do love those creatures, I think they're very cool - and they offer a very good practice to my snipers, since they usually don't die from one shot. And when you're fighting against another types of aliens, it is very delightful that they mostly die from one shot.

However, Biodrones are extremely uncool. I hate them ("Yeah? How much?" "... A lot!" from Life of Brian ;) ), because they are fast, they are accurate and mostly because they go boom when they die.

Yesterday (and the day before yesterday), I had my very first cargo ship terror session. It was exhausting. My brain was squished when I finished it at last. It wasn't too hard, but I hated the ambushing Biodrones in small rooms. However, I was kind of disappointed when I found out that the engine room and the big room with the barrels were completely empty. The containers suck - there are some of them which cannot be accessed, one lobsterman was hiding in one, I had luck, because due a bug, I was able to shoot him from the top.

Few days after the ship, we went on a holiday to an island resort... It was really funny, how small the map is compared to a ship. The bunkers with hiding aliens did some trouble, though.

And today. Today is the day of my very first Artefact Site. I didn't want to start it, but I was curious what it is like (I've seen it on youtube, but I wanted to see with "my own" eyes). The first part was fun. :) I killed two Tasoths and two Tentaculats (neither of which I've encountered before) without allowing them to try to attack, and then found out, that the pyramid with the elevators are cca. 3 squares away from the Triton. :) I rushed everybody into it, and began the second part only after 3-4 turns. :) I'm happy, as far as I know there are only lobsters and tentaculats in the second part, so I don't have to worry about MC, right?

Fantastic game with a fantastic atmosphere. :)

Edited by kzsoci, 31 August 2011 - 06:18 AM.


#11 yarrow

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 07:41 AM

you are wrong about alien crew ( and MC in consequence )

mix of lobsters and tentaculats
you can expect in second level of ... alien colonies

for artifact sites ( L2 ) expect following mixture of aliens
tentaculats + tasoths + aquatoids + hallucinoids

yes ... tasoth squad leaders too :D

yarrow

Edited by yarrow, 31 August 2011 - 07:48 AM.


#12 kzsoci

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 07:57 AM

Damn.

Well. We'll see.

Actually, I haven't finished researching the MC Lab. So this will be the live experiment who is and who isn't resistant against mind control. <_<

#13 kzsoci

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 08:40 AM

You call me a cheater, but I'm gonna replay this.

I began, nothing terrible happened in the first couple of turns, I deployed the folks around. I saw some tasoths, I shot them as well. They tried to panic two of my men with succes. Be it, unless they don't control them, it won't harm. And those two people weren't a big loss.

Let's see. I killed a jellyfish, too. I found the way to the synonium device, hooray. Only an aquatoid was watching it, and eventually he disappeared in a couple of turns.

Troubles began then. I found another big room, where an aquatoid was hiding. He was holding a distruptor-pulse-blaster-launcher and he was keen to use it (actually, I'm beginning to doubt that he had that weapon - a termal shok launcher with stunning bombs seems more likely). He shot my best sniper who dropped stunned. I was considering reloading already then, but I wanted to play a bit longer - so I decided to try a bold plan. The cunning plan was that I sent the second best shooter up to level 4 to destroy the synonium device. Suprisingly - it worked! On level 3 I saw only one tentaculat who didn't seem to come after me and that's it. Realizing that I may have a grand victory, I began to re-deploy my people to the exit area. Uh oh - there's a man lying unconscious whom I wouldn't want to lose. Damn it. I sent the nearest soldier to pick him up. You may already know what happened: the coward little aquatoid shot him unconscious as well. Well, we need both of them badly, so I sent the third one, he dropped the sonic cannon and took both of the bodies - and the punch line: the aliens took control over one of the panicing guys who didn't drop his weapon and shot him. Tada. After that, I sent every available men to the exit area and finished the mission with an EXCELLENT! rating, but I didn't save the geoscape - I'm gonna replay this much better once again.

The interesting thing is that it doesn't seem so impossible anymore to win this mission with a general success (that is, losing some unworthy people) like it seemed in UFO: EU when I opened the other topic. It's not difficult at all, I should be a little less clumsy and that's it.

Edited by kzsoci, 31 August 2011 - 12:49 PM.


#14 kzsoci

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 11:06 AM

I replayed it, and it went well, I got more than 900 points (750 for the device, the rest for killing 9 aliens). Okay.

But I'm concerned. I fear that I was so cautious not to that that I accidentally crashed into the research tree bug. :@

I researched in this order: ion beam accelerator -> ... -> deep one corpse -> aqua plastics -> plastic armour -> living deep one -> ion armour

And stuck. The magnetic navigation should reveal itself, right? But it didn't. The ufopaedia.org shows a similar graph on which ion beam accelerator is between plastic aqua armour and live deep one - but it also says that the order before the live deep one is not important, just the fact that every prequisite for the ion armour should be researched before the live deep one.

I hope I'm not stuck... <_< I have a saved game before researching the living deep one, if that helps to correct it.

Anyway, I've found a colony in the Caribbean. Hooray.

UPDATE: Wait a minute! Isn't this magnetic navigation a part of a submarine? Which I should automatically be able to research if I captured one? Can that be that I practically blew ALL submarines so apart that their magnetic navigation broke totally (at the interception or by using grenades in the battle)?? But I do remember assaulting submarines that were only landed. At least one.

UPDATE: no way, I can see 36 pieces of "magnetic navigation" at my primary base on stock. Damn. So, new campaign?

Edited by kzsoci, 31 August 2011 - 11:29 AM.


#15 NKF

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 01:45 PM

You might be able to continue. My first thought is that you probably haven't applied the v2.0 patch. Try capturing a Lobsterman Navigator and research that and see if that unlocks the magnetic navigation for research.

- NKF
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#16 kzsoci

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 02:33 PM

Thanks, I'll try that. Hopefully, it will help, but I see that the Lobster Navigator unlocks the hyperwave decoder (or what, transmission resolver). Maybe.

Otherwise it sucks...

#17 NKF

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 11:58 PM

The Transmission Resolver is unlocked by getting Magnetic Navigation. The v2.0 update eliminates the need for the lobsterman navigator in this sequence.

If you plan to salvage your current game, don't apply the v2.0 patch right now. It's just that if you do update it, it's recommended that you start over from a new campaign as there could be some problems that get carried over with the v1.0 save.

On the other hand, you might actually enjoy starting over, as I find there's always more to learn. For example recently I've started noticing that the aliens can go into a light state of panic that is not mentioned to the player - you can this in action when you hear shots being fired in the distance but not any of your units (and there are no civilians), of if you find unarmed aliens or weapons just lying on the ground for no apparent reason. I know the aliens can suffer panic attacks, but I never knew it happened behind the scenes as well. Turned out to be my best friend on a dreadnought assault, with most of the opposition inside the sub ending up unarmed towards the end.

- NKF

Edited by NKF, 01 September 2011 - 12:05 AM.

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#18 kzsoci

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 12:07 AM

But is this urspr√ľngliche version 1.0 completely unfinishable? Or what did I do wrong? Should I have researched the ion beam accelerator exactly between plastic armour and deep one terrorist?

#19 NKF

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 12:26 AM

The unpatched copy can be completed as long as you haven't encountered any of the bugs that you cannot recover from. Try and capture the navigator first and see if that helps.

- NKF

Edited by NKF, 01 September 2011 - 01:47 AM.

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#20 kzsoci

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 01:05 PM

I've been trying to capture this navigator.

I assaulted a fleet supply ship that was swimming around their first base. I equipped four people with small launcher and some of this thermal shok bomb. I stunned 8 aliens - and none of them was a navigator. I don't have the MC reader yet (I think it was much easier to unlock the mind probe in UFO than here, wasn't it?).

I'm considering a new campaign. <_<

#21 yarrow

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 01:29 PM

yes, it was easier to research Mind Probe in XCom1
than to research MC Reader in terror from the deep

you captured only 8? ... hmm

A.) supply cruisers should have much more aliens
about double that number ( depending on difficulty settings )
see alien deployment section of http://ufopaedia.org..._Supply_Cruiser

B.) perhaps you captured them outside of USO?
navigators tend to be inside fleet supply cruisers
most likely near, or inside of command room

yarrow

#22 kzsoci

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 01:59 PM

I killed another 8. Some were shot by reaction fire, first. Then: I had only 4 small launchers with 12 bombs, some of the shots weren't so precise. Then: I think navigators carry more advanced weapons such as sonic cannon, thermal shok launcher (that's its name!) or distruptor pulse launchers; so I automatically shot who was carrying only a sonic rifle.

And finally: I was thinking the same thing about capturing them inside the submarine, that's why I spared some bombs for the interior battle. I wasn't counting the aliens, but just before entering the sub I shot one lobster man, and the mission was over. All 16 aliens were outside the sub!

#23 NKF

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 10:48 PM

Perhaps starting a new game, with the v2 patch applied, would be less stressful?

In UFO you only had to have a mind probe to be able to research it. In TFTD you have to have the MC.-Lab, even though the MC Reader doesn't need any MC Skill to use. You are able to get it early if you go down the path of capturing a Deep One as soon as you can. It's just not as straightforward. Still an incredibly useful device for combat.

There is one trick you can do to find out what rank the race are. Stun the alien, then pick up its body and you'll see its name. If you don't find any navigators, just drop a high explosive on them and move on.

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#24 yarrow

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 06:03 AM

hmmm, perhaps you should read this:
http://ufopaedia.org...hp?title=TRTBAG

yarrow

#25 kzsoci

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 08:46 AM

Hey. Thanks for the advice, yarrow! I've read the beginning of this, but I ceased to read at the Tasoth Commander Bug, since it seemed irrelevant to me from there.

But it says later:

Unpatched

A Lobsterman Navigator is needed to research Magnetic Navigation


So, now I know that I should be able to research Magnetic Navigation, I will be motivated to try hard to capture one of them. You see, it was a little bit demotivating that I didn't even know if it was worth to find one.

---

@NKF: yeah, I've known that thing, I just thought that through the law of large numbers one of the stunned alien should be a navigator, and I did not check. However, ufopaedia.org says there is 0-1 navigator on a supply ship in beginner mode - it can be that none of them was a navigator...

Edited by kzsoci, 09 September 2011 - 08:48 AM.


#26 kzsoci

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 12:02 PM

YEAH!

I replayed a supply cruiser assault. This time it was a little bit easier, I met only 14 aliens. 5 were shot, 9 were stunned. And finally, in the commander room there was the last alien who was already panicing, running around without a weapon, he tried to toss a grenade, though. But he failed, he wasn't able to blow us nor himself. Aaaand... he was the navigator! :)

I saved after the end, and tried to research him without doing anything - and he unlocked the MAGNETIC NAVIGATION!!! :) ROFL

Yeah! Thanks to both of you. :)

So I can carry on with this campaign, which means I have to assault the colony in the Caribbean... I think I'll have some supply ships instead until I have my MC Lab built (it's under construction). ;) Actually, it will be lot easier just to shoot the lobsters, this catch-him-alive-game was a great training.

Edited by kzsoci, 09 September 2011 - 12:04 PM.


#27 kzsoci

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Posted 11 September 2011 - 11:52 AM

Movin' on...

I did something quite well since at the end of the month I already had two colonies (one of them from the middle of the month, the other one started at the end), but I got an EXCELLENT rating and 2000 points or such, so it didn't bother me. The bad thing is that my MC Lab will be ready on the 3rd of the next month which means I will be able to use offensive MC only after almost two months, right? That really sucks...

On the 1st of the month, artefact site number two revealed itself. I assaulted it immediately. I've finished only the first stage which was quite easy. Yeah, it was. Although, the yellow elevator zone was at the other corner of the map, but all the armed aliens were next to the Triton. I shot a tasoth each turn for 4-5 turns, and then I was able to "make landfall". :) Afterwards, I met three Aquatoids who were basically carrying melee weapons, and tried to toss grenades without killing anybody - they also were easy shots. One of my best men had only 2 ammos in his sonic cannon after the first some turns - and he killed an alien with every shot. :) Fortunately, I didn't forget to pick up some clips which the dead aliens had left behind.

And after this not-hard-but-funny part came the dull part. I met three tentaculats (one of them was on the highest level), a hallucinoid and some other paniced aliens. I presume the tentaculats are tougher on harder levels and indoors, because they just suck out of doors... This is already beginning to be too easy, and I haven't used any MC yet... Lobster men don't die as easy as anybody else, but they can't use psionics.

Well, I think I will have my thrill in the second stage. :)

Edited by kzsoci, 11 September 2011 - 11:55 AM.


#28 kzsoci

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Posted 11 September 2011 - 01:08 PM

LOL

I knew I shouldn't have written about the puniness of the tencaculats. :D

They wasted my four best men in the first three rounds of the second stage. :D The game plan was that I would make a sneak attack with a minimum of people who also seemed durable against psi-attacks.

Some tasoths and a hallucinoid were shot easily. And then... The nightmare which I've read a lot about, began. :) I don't describe it, you already know. They are fast, accurate and they are hiding everywhere. :D That's it.

Some tips? I have sonic cannons and sonic pulsers, that's it. Ion armours. Et cetera.

Edited by kzsoci, 11 September 2011 - 01:09 PM.


#29 NKF

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 01:50 AM

For some general advice about tentaculats: Always watch your back and any direction that you haven't fully explored. Move slow and make sure you have plenty of time units to get off reaction shots. If you have any, particle disturbance grenades are good trip alarms.

Sonic weapons are good in general against Tentaculats, but it's worth knowing that they have a lot of armour in the front, but not that much on the sides and back. Tentaculats are especially weak to explosives, taking 50% more damage from HE weapons. Their under armour is also very weak. Sonic pulsers are probably your best means of defeating them if you've got the space. Otherwise Gas Cannon/HE are also very good.

As for advice vs. tentaculats in the Artefact site:

I can't advise much about those that are in the halls except to watch your backs and move slowly so that you can use reaction fire to slow them down. The black chamber with the synonium device is where the largest number of them are gathered. Many of them will be hiding in the almost hidden ledges in the upper levels of the black chamber, and one may even be in the main lift. Those in the ledges above are especially dangerous as they can drop down behind your team if they aren't dealt with.

My recommendation is that you try to split your aquanauts and siege the area by attacking it from two or three sides at once. Don't go all the way in, just stay near the entrance and move one aquanaut in sufficiently far to spot any aliens in the ledge above the opposite entrance. Return to the safety of the tunnel and try to snipe at the enemies on the other side of the room. Do this from the other end as well. Once the area seems safe to enter, move in and try to scan for enemies in the remaining upper level ledges.

When you attack the main lift itself, quickly charge aquanauts into the lift and stand in all lift sections. This way you plug the lifts so that you won't get any surprises attacks from a tentaculat hiding below or above the lift.

But practice makes perfect.

You just reminded me of a very good bug that the v2 patch fixes with multi-part missions like this. Equipment recovery. In v1.0, everything left behind on level 1 is lost, even stuff on the floor in your Triton. In v2.0, stuff in the Triton is saved, and if you beat all the aliens on the first map, you get to keep all their equipment too. Even if you abandoned the second half, all the equipment in the first map is recovered. This is nice, as if you beat both maps, you will get a massive amount of recovered equipment.

- NKF

Edited by NKF, 12 September 2011 - 01:53 AM.

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#30 kzsoci

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 06:23 AM

Thanks! I've read this comment in the morning and now I tried out some of the advices. The most useful advice was that I should enter that hall from different directions so I can spot all the tentaculats at once. And a larger number of soldiers makes a higher probability of reaction fire, so I deployed more aquanats around the chamber.

Before going to the Tentaculat Lobby, I hunted as many Tasoths as I could - because one of my key men seems to be a little bit vulnerable to mind control, though. :( First I let him drop all his weapons and grenades, and I only picked up those after it seemed to be "all clear". Meanwhile, I let two people camp to catch some Aquatoids. Yeah, and one tentaculat was in the labyrinth near to the entry zone, in the first attempt he caused some trouble...

So, after all this we gathered around the hall with three men at one entrance and two at the other. I spotted the first tentaculat, shot it, but it didn't die. :S The same happened to another tentaculat in the other corher. So - two soldiers without enough TUs, three others should have to shoot the attacking tentaculats in the alien turn. Three reaction fires were shot, one hit - dead tentaculat drops. The other two tentaculats came very near to my group of three people - horror. But AI wasn't so smart so they either spent all their TUs coming near or were just too dumb; but at the beginning of the next turn both of them were one square away from our group full of TUs. :) They died. I hoped very much that I would be able to shoot the fourth tentaculat at the fourth corner just above us with reaction fire - but it turned out that there was only an Aquatoid. :) So, with luck I was able to handle this situation. I think I should use DPL next time, it would be much more efficient, I just haven't researched its ammunition yet.

The tentaculat in the elevator was really nice, he came out, so we could eliminate him as well. From here the mission was easy, but I had to bear one loss: Maria Centeno had to shoot an unarmed, panicing Aquatoid from 4-5 squares away. She blew her chance, so next turn the Aquatoid blew themselves up with a pulser. I don't care, she wasn't among the best.

Artefact site number two solved. ^_^ Should I attack one of the colonies in this month or that should be enough (with intercepting other submarines)?

Edited by kzsoci, 12 September 2011 - 06:25 AM.


#31 yarrow

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 10:58 AM

colonies are much like artefact sites
if you can handle them, than you can handle colonies too

colonies generate 5 points of alien activity per day ( 150 per month )
so basically they 'cost' you one escort ship mission ( more or less )

I would just destroy the colony that is farther away from your 'triton'
and the other I would use for milking it again and again
for equipment, corpses, live speciments, training bags ^_^


in the first part expect Disruptor Launchers in the open terrain and a lot of MC attacks
additionally expect tentaculat ambush in the central part of the map ( the lift area )

second part is filled with lobsters + tentaculats
if you plan to just destroy synomium device
than grab some lobsterman commanders ( if you need them )
and PLEASE :) go to the engine room too ( for 100 zrbite )
it's ONLY 2 levels up over command center


oh ... I almost forgot :)
tactics that I use the most against tentaculats is ... the tank bait
Displacer/Sonic is VERY resistant to tentaculat attacks


yarrow
ps.
I wanted to upload 2 screen shots, but I received following error
'Upload failed. You are not permitted to upload this type of file'
whom have I ask for permission? ... NKF :D :D

Edited by yarrow, 12 September 2011 - 11:28 AM.


#32 kzsoci

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 11:53 AM

I've destroyed artefact site number 3. First stage is still very easy. And I began to use DPL, it was quite funny. I didn't use blaster launcher in UFO too much, I relied on Heavy Plasma, but I think I will use this more often, because it's very likeable. :)

Stage two was the easiest this time - the two entrance elevators were directly next to the Tentaculat Hall. I fired two DPL torpedoes to two corners - I didn't hear the splashing death of tentaculats, so I don't know if there were any aliens up there. I entered the hall - and didn't see any tentaculats anywhere. I decided to destroy the synonium device asap without minding other aliens on the map; and I began to re-deploy the troopers. While coming back from the destroyed device, the soldier spotted a tentaculat on the second highest level on a little balcony - fortunately, he was able to shoot him. And that's it, we went back to the entry zone and the mission was over. I don't know where the tentaculats and other aliens were (I met only one Tasoth and maybe an Aquatoid, but I'm not sure about the latter one), maybe on a picnic or in the fun fair. Quite a surprise when they came home. :D

This shows the ultimate variability of this game! Artifact site 2 - Artifact site 3 -> 31 dead aliens : 17 dead aliens... There are no two same missions. This is very cool. :)

---

Aww, I don't want to go to the colony. :) That cross-shaped building makes me somehow claustrophobiac. :D Why should I capture that 100 zrbite? I have around 900 units at home... Of course, I don't have anything yet which would use zrbite as fuel; and I don't really manufacture ammo (however, I had to make some cannon power clips - in UFO it did never happen that I collected insufficient heavy plasma clips :| ). I see that it's a lot easier to find Zrbite than Elerium in UFO. It will be hard enough to capture the Lobster Commander which I will try on colony nr. 2...

I don't have any HWP. I'm researching magnetic ion armour, so I will have them soon as well. In UFO I hadn't used HWPs either until I met the Ethereals and I very strongly needed something which cannot be mind controlled...

Edited by kzsoci, 12 September 2011 - 11:58 AM.


#33 NKF

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 01:40 PM

Like UFO, they're not compulsory, but I think you will find that a G. Cannon Coelacanth is a fantastic scout early in the game, and later on the Sonic Displacer will be both a great scout but also a fantastic fighter in its own right too (and can fly on land).

Yarrow, inline file attachment restrictions are a bit more stricter in the main forums. I think it's only the savegame/missions subforum where files can be attached. External attachments like images from places like photobucket or links to external storage sites should be fine.

- NKF

Edited by NKF, 12 September 2011 - 01:41 PM.

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#34 kzsoci

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 06:54 AM

I have successfully "negotiated" the first part of the Alien Colony 1. Second attempt (yeah, I replayed the battle but without reloading in the battlescape).

In the first attempt everything seemed normal until the 4th turn. I began to deploy the troops and we shot down some hallucinoids but I haven't spotted any armed aliens. They then began this mind control procedure which was kind of terrifying... Two people are their Lieblings, favorites, who tend to panic and lose self-control very easily. One of them shot a key-person... And then came a distruptor pulse torpedo out of nowhere killing four people (two keymen and two DPL-specialists). Okay, let's try it again...

I was wondering if I should keep the two psi-weaklings at home, but I decided to bring them along, so they could be the bait (they would attack the next least weak person)! I put down all of their weapons and grenades in the first turn and brought them next to the triton so the aliens can spot them. They were protected by three DPL artillery people who were also carrying a sonic cannon. :) The strategy was that I scouted with the four best men mid-air (I have four magnetic iron armours, others under production), and when they spotted something threatening, I fired a DPL-torpedo there (or the scout shot him/herself if it was safe). And it isn't much fair for the aliens: after killing 3-4 tasoths, all the others began to panic dropping their DPL (I haven't seen any other weapon in the battlefield - which also is helpful since they won't shoot with them indoors unless they're crazy or kamikaze), so one of the severe threats is solved that way. And they weren't MC-ing my people as tough as before, after a couple of turns of panic the baits were just standing there completely available.

I was a little bit mad at my snipers - at the very end there were two panicing and useless tasoths on the second floor of the building where some tentaculates and hallucionids resided; it took at least 6 shots to kill them... Waste of ammo and there weren't any cannon power clips around... I grabbed some distruptor ammo, spotted the last hiding hallucinoid and it was over.

UPDATE:

The first level of artefact sites and colonies are much easier than terror missions, especially ship routes. Terrain is just like a simple desert (that was my favorite in UFO as well :) ), no small rooms, no labyrinth, no nothing. No biodrones as well! :)

Edited by kzsoci, 23 January 2012 - 03:48 PM.


#35 kzsoci

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 09:28 AM

8 turns. This is how long stage two lasted.

Killed three or four lobster men and one or two tentaculats. The whole floor was empty besides that. One level deeper we began to search the map. We found the place where the synonium device could be shot from above. I saw this trick in Yaeri2's videos - I don't think it would be cheating. I fired a distruptor pulse torpedo and blew the whole thing. We went home afterwards.

I wasn't going to capture lobster man commanders, because I have two other alien colonies on the geoscape so I will have the opportunity to do so.

Manta is being researched. I finished the month with 3400 points. It turned out that my dream team has an average value of 60 in MC Skill (UPDATE: Oops, I meant MC Strength)... All 14 magnetic ion armours are ready.

I think I'm very near to the end... :) However, I saved before going to a ship route attack which I really hate...

Edited by kzsoci, 14 September 2011 - 10:00 AM.


#36 kzsoci

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 10:43 AM

I try to insert a screen shot. I've just met the first Triscene ever after 15 years.

Posted Image

Beautiful. :) Now I have to spot a Calcinite, because I haven't seen that one either.

#37 kzsoci

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 09:55 AM

What have I done today?

Not much.

Psi-training.

I don't mean that virtual training that 10 people are in the MC-Lab for a month and then their MC Skill increases some points, no. I mean that I assault escorts and cruisers and use their personnel as very realistic puppets for MC. I spot an alien and then the 6 best MC-soldiers try to jam their implant or mind control them. In the beginning, I succeeded only once or maybe twice per mission. Now there is always somebody who's able to control the alien every turn. Not always the same, there are still a lot of vain attempts, but we are progressing. The stats are getting better - starting from around 20 some people already have around 40 (I mean MC Skill).

I know. It will take some of the fun away. But it's clearly not cheating since this is in the rules of the game. However, there isn't any alien race which would be so terrifying strong like the Ethereals in UFO - Lobster Men are tough, but they can't MC. Tasoths can MC, but they are very coward.

I have a Manta. It's not the best craft in XCOM, but it's the best looking by far. I want one for real. :D

Edited by kzsoci, 14 September 2011 - 09:59 AM.


#38 NKF

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 12:04 AM

Don't worry about the failed attempts. With MC training, a failed MC attack is counted as a success. An actual successful MC attack is worth 3 failed attacks. You only need 10 ~ 11 successes each mission per aquanaut to get all the possible stat boosts they can get from it.

As for the new subs, you may want to try out the Hammerhead. It's quite a good ship despite the lower firepower and not being able to carry tanks. It's really a dwarf-Leviathan. :D

- NKF

Edited by NKF, 15 September 2011 - 12:05 AM.

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#39 kzsoci

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 01:38 AM

Yeah, I've read that on ufopaedia.org, that's why I didn't mind. Now the psi-experts (who happen to be the best soldiers anyway) have an MC Skill of ~60 with MC Strengths of ~60...70. I found a person at the other base who has 93 points in MC Strength - he will be my number one DPL-specialist at T'Leth. :)

I went to Artefact Site 4. Stage one was too easy: the aliens weren't able to attack any aquanats at all. In the first turn I had three aliens in control who were scouting around the Triton. They did the dirty job: a tentaculat went next a recently mind controlled Tasoth, but they both were blown up by another alien with a grenade. :D I disembarked my troops only in the 5th or 6th turn, and there were like two panicing tasoths left and two stuck tentaculats in a pyramid. Yeah, and a harmless hallucinoid.

Second part was more interesting: I got a very evil map where the Tentaculat Hall was in the corner and had only one entrance! :o Tentaculats cannot be mind controlled so easy, so they still mean a danger. I invented this tactic: I took control over a Tasoth and showed him in the Hall, he ran outside afterwards. He was the bait. :) Outside snipers were waiting who shot the greedy Tentaculat who came out to catch the "enemy" unit. I was able to shoot two tentaculats this way. :) At the second time the poor Tasoth died as well, but it is a great advantage of the aliens that they cannot be pregnant with Tentaculat babies, they just die.

This and extensive use of Distruptor Pulse Launcher made stage two quite easy as well. :)

UPDATE:

Is Hammerhead better than Lightning? I mean, I've never used Lightning in UFO, because it wasn't neccessary: Firestorms and Skyrangers could solve anything until Avenger.

Edited by kzsoci, 23 January 2012 - 03:47 PM.


#40 NKF

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 03:07 AM

Have a look at the UFO and TFTD craft comparison tables:

http://www.ufopaedia...php?title=Craft
http://www.ufopaedia....php?title=Subs

Stat-wise, the Hammerhead is much better than the Lightning, but hasn't got the Lightning's unique layout.

If you compare the Hammerhead against the other new subs in TFTD, it's not the fastest, but it is still a well balanced multi-purpose ship (and it's cheap!).

Many players do take the practical approach and skip it and the Manta and go straight for the Leviathan. I feel at least one is worth a try just for a change of pace. ;)

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#41 kzsoci

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 10:24 AM

Well, I think I'm not going to need a Hammerhead, because I've just captured two lobsterman commanders at a colony. :)

I can say: part one was fun but a little bit boring, because it took very long to find the last alien. They didn't really resist.

Part two was VERY boring, since the colony was completely empty, I met only one lobster man on the starting level, saw three soldiers and squad leaders on the previous floor and found the closet where the synonium device resided. Fortunately, I was able to spot the navigator from above, so I could force the two commanders to come out (not that way ;) ) and get shot by the thermic shok bomb. They fell, we picked them up and went home (after blowing the device itself). It took ten turns or such. One person was left MIA because he was shot by another stun bomb, but I didn't really care to pick him up, he was a rookie. I didn't even see a tentaculat.

So. It will be over soon. There are two other colonies, but I won't attack them - I wait until my wounded best man (who has been in hospital for like 2 months) recovers, and we go for T'leth. Until the scientists develop the Leviathan and the stories about T'leth, we attack the oncoming submarines, and if it takes more than a month, then I will have another terror mission or artefact site on the 1st.

I begin to fear that the final mission is going to be very dull... First part of Cydonia was quite fun, cyberdiscs and high ranked sectoids caused a little bit thrill, but part two was very boring. There was that empty base with one or two ethereals outside the little cinema and some useless terror units like Celatids and Silacoids...

But after all, if I succeed, I will be quite proud. :)

#42 kzsoci

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 01:18 PM

Two screenshots.

Posted Image
Molecular Control training.

Posted Image
Yuri, my very best aquanat. I think he was on ALL of the missions, never missed any.

#43 yarrow

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Posted 19 September 2011 - 11:16 AM

for training ( MC ) you need actually only one alien
and panic him with all of your soldiers at once
so you need only 6 turns to MC train all your soldiers

personally I do need 2 aliens, this way I can do 2 ( succsesful ) mind controls per turn with one soldier
so I only need 2 turns per soldier, its fast and easy
( even faster if you set up your soldiers in the way that MC guy is selected in the beginning of your turn )
this way 2 turns per soldier are needed, but turns are faster

for training firing accuracy I suggest to bring alone 2 dart guns and ammo for each soldier
and shoot any tasoth, lobster which are easy to find in any colony ^_^
you need only one since they are both immune
empty clip ( 3 turns per sodlier ) and you got all you need
to get best possible stat increase ( random 3-6 )


I would say that your soldier has rather averag MC statistics
MC skill is good, but is quite hampered by MC strength
you can see it for yourself in ... yes ... alien colonies :)
your soldier will have troubles to mind control tentaculats, form any larger distance
while 80+ ( especially 90+ ) with the same skill, should have no problem here
unless tentaculat is on the far side of the map

so, I would suggest someone else for this DPL than this soldier that has 93 MC strength :D


as for your monthly rating of 3400
its only 3 alien colony ( milking ) missions
about 1100 per mission, and doing only first stage of it ( superhuman of course )
if I have alien colony nearby ... I end months with about 10K-15K
to me alien colonies are game breaker, cause you can pretty much ignore all other missions
and I may do only some supply cruiser raids, if you want sub components ( Ion Beam Accelerators, and such )

oh, yes
why grab zrbite? => 30 / tank, 16 / Mag. Ion Armor, 30 / sonic oscillator ( and list goes on )

seriously ... cause it is so VERY, VERY easy ... once you find command center in alien colonies
just go up the lift, and shot the terrain, pick the 2 crystals ... what can be more easier? ^_^
( even when I have 3000+ zrbite ... I still grab it, cause it still is so easy :D )

this also can be applied in reverse, to save you search time ( and a lot of it )
if you found engine room on L2, you don't need to search the lower levels anymore
just use the elevators to go one level down, and turn arround your soldier
sometimes engine room is even generated next to exit grids!!!

ha, unless YOU really WANT to search for every alien of course :D

yarrow

Edited by yarrow, 20 September 2011 - 05:48 AM.


#44 kzsoci

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Posted 19 September 2011 - 02:21 PM

I just called it "training" because I thought it looked funny that all 6 tasoths were standing next to the Triton.

You can't make MC Strength get better, so you take what you get. I considered it quite good, because in UFO almost all of my best soldiers had very poor psi-strength... I haven't been able to mind control tentaculats, and I don't really look forward to (of course, it would be useful). I didn't mean that he was my best MC warrior but the best universal aquanat.

The 93-MC-Strength aquanat is technically a rookie, he has an MC-Skill of 19 which he got in the first month in MC Lab. I have five elite-veteran soldiers who can control three ordinary aliens each in a turn. Firing a DPL doesn't need good firing accuracy (I happen to think that it counts somehow, though).

Sorry for the low points, I thought they were good since it was an EXCELLENT rating. This is basically my first campaign in XCOM: TFTD (because in the 90s I didn't have a clue to play it right)...

Edited by kzsoci, 19 September 2011 - 02:26 PM.


#45 yarrow

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 05:55 AM

no problemo :)

I guess you encountered most common of XCom murphy's laws
your best starting soldiers will be ( 'are' in your case ^_^ ) MC weak
http://ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Murphy%27s_Laws_(X-COM)

statistically only 1,6 of 8 ( 20% ) of your starting soldiers will be in range of 80+ ( MC Strength )
see http://ufopaedia.org...=Starting_Stats


about this 93 rookie with low MC skill now, he is a candidate for your best trooper
about 20 training missions later, he will become master of the dark side of the force :D
AND will be able to mind control almost every tentaculat you encounter ( with 90+ skill )


also note that psi/MC skill is the EASIEST thing to train in XCom!!
if 11+ panics are done in mission, than you get 3-6 skill increase ( max possible )
just ask yourself, how hard is to do 11+ panic attacks per soldier?

yes, you can't 'train' MC Strength ... but ... you can do something else
which will increase number of good MC soldiers, it will cost you 'only' ^_^ more money
namely you can ( and should ) do more soldier screening

the trick is in more 'massive' approach to MC Lab 'scanning' for 80+ MC Strength
let's say about 40 soldiers ( 4 MC labs ) in training per month ( new rookies each month just to scan )
this should give you ~8 ( sometimes more ) soldiers in 80+ range with MC Strength

in this way after 3 months, you should be able to have a lot of 80+ MC rookies
and enough of them to fill even leviathan to full capacity!!
then train them ~20 times ... and ... all aliens you encounter are YOURS :D


please consider reading the rest of training details, which ( as always :) ) can be found on:
http://ufopaedia.org...rience_Training

yarrow
PS.
yes, my rating of soldiers is solely based on their psi/MC strength ^_^

Edited by yarrow, 24 September 2011 - 03:08 AM.


#46 NKF

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 02:56 AM

As long as your points are above 0 every month and no one's withdrawn their fundings, you're doing well. Getting 10k or more points a month is just a nice luxury that comes along when you go on a real sweep of big missions (such as a boat terror mission and maybe a couple of artefact/colony missions as well as lots of big enemy subs) in a single month.

It's also easier to hit those points on superhuman difficulty due to the higher frequency of missions that get generated in the later months.

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#47 kzsoci

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 03:03 PM

Good evening! :)

I think I'm now falling for XCOM again. :) But it should be the last period, because I'm at the very end. I've been playing for a couple of days now, doing some preparing missions for the last one - and thrusting the MC Skill of two people with MC Strengths 93 and 97 (one of them was already mentioned above) in order to mind control tentaculats as well.

It's the 1st of January 2041. We're going to T'leth today. The team consists of 14 people. Everybody has a loaded sonic cannon with one replacement clip. Six people are carrying MC Distruptor in the other hand, all of them trained to control any alien. Six other people carrying a DPL with 3 ammos each. We bring some medikits and pulsers as well.

I haven't used any tanks or displacers during the game, but now I would take two sonic displacers with me. Unfortunately, I haven't research sonic pistol or sonic pistol clip or something like that, so I'm not able to research this hovertank too. :S Anyway, it should work without HWP.

Last month brought me ~6000 points. :) I attacked every submarine, and they showed themselves almost every day. However, I had some problems with the ammunition of the mantas: the ammo of the PWT cannon is manufactured very slowly, sometimes I wasn't aware of the fact that the Manta had taken off without ammo, so an old Barracuda from another base had to help her... :)

#48 yarrow

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 07:32 AM

ammo problem ... that is why I arm my subs ONLY with Sonic Oscillators :D
some udeful info can be found there:
http://www.ufopaedia...onic_Oscillator
http://www.ufopaedia...e=Sub_Armaments


you ignored sonic pistol ? =p
I guess plasma pistol suggested it to you ^_^

in terror instead, it is most powerful one handed weapon !!
very useful for a scouts or weak aquanauts

sonic pistol in one hand and thermal tazer in second hand
is a powerful combination when storming alien subs
one more link to ufopaedia:
http://www.ufopaedia...le=Sonic_Pistol


in the last stage ( 3-rd ) of thlet'h, there are aliens nearby starting grid
and they have Thermal Shock Cannons, which will stun your aquanauts right away
but, if you move your tanks first, no harm will be done to you

I suggest that you definitely finish your research
and take 2 displacers with you, since tanks are immune to stun weaponry

just for your heart sake :D :D :D

yarrow
ps.
take more ammo, especially for disrupters :)

Edited by yarrow, 10 November 2011 - 07:34 AM.


#49 kzsoci

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 08:02 AM

I can't finish the research anymore, because I sold all my sonic pistols and/or ammos at one point I don't remember (I think in order to make some space in the warehouses), and the aliens no longer bring those weapons along (the puniest weapon they have is the sonic rifle). :S I know it's a big mistake (and it's clearly not a bug), but I cannot redo it.

That's why I can't use Sonic Oscillators, too... Yeah, dumb. I bring some Gauss tanks or what, it couldn't hover anyway.

Like I used the heavy plasma in UFO almost always, now I've been only using sonic cannon since it's available. I know it's slow and heavy, but I got used to it, and it's a perfect sniper rifle and heavy weapon in one. So I didn't care to research those 'useless' weapons. :( :)

I would take more ammo, but there's this 80-item-limit. And I think I should bring some more cannon power clips, because there are a plenty of distruptor ammo to grab from the dead aliens (and my primary weapon is the cannon anyway). I think I don't bring any pulsers, if I have to detonate something, DPL will do it.

UPDATE:

I see now that I can manufacture this Coelacanth (what a word! what a fish!)/Gauss or Displacer/PWT. Which one do you recommend?

Edited by kzsoci, 10 November 2011 - 10:11 AM.


#50 kzsoci

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 12:17 PM

LOL

LOL

Ridiculous.

I didn't wait for your advice and started the T'leth mission with two Displacers/PWT.

In turn 1 the first aquanat was already spotting the first aquatoid. We took control over him and shot to death in the next turn.

Afterwards, I sent the two displacers to scout the surroundings of the elevators. Nothing ever happened for like 6 turns. Then we heard a door opening. And the AI turns lasted suspiciously short. I scouted with the displacers until one of them found the exit area. Nobody there. Nobody anywhere. So decided to move the troops to the exit area. Everybody ran there within a couple of turns (I didn't spare TUs for reaction fire). Not far from the exit area the displacer spotted an alien moving away from us in the big computer hall or what. Finally some action! :) I sent one of the displacers after him, but I didn't find him anymore... So everbody gathered in the exit area, I waited some turns until the energy levels restored, and that's it.

Results so far:

T'leth Level one
Casualties: 0
Alien casualties: 1
Spent ammo :D : 2 cannon power bullet(?) - the first attempt to kill the aquatoid was a miss.

Can you imagine that? Where were the pals of these two aquatoids? Did they go to the cinema or shopping? Well, good for me. :)