Weapon Costs

[Twilight Owl]

please write your opinions about weapon costs here

 

currently the game is using weapon costs from this table: http://megapol.front.ru/ufo2000/weapon/v02/weapon_hp.htm

("cost*" is precise and "cost" is approximate)

 

author of the table and formulas is Megapol (can't give the link to the formulas because they're in Russian )

[Twilight Owl]

hm... i'll try to make translation of formulas...

 

---

 

Cost is calculated as probable average damage of one shot.

 

Fire-arms cost

 

Genaral formula:

 

Cost = [http://www.filespace.org/Twilight.Owl/E.gif { Damage(i) x Accuracy(i) / TUS(i)} ] / 3,

 

where:

 

i - number of mode (0 - auto fire, 1 - snap shot, 2 - aimed shot);

 

3 - total number of modes;

 

Damage(i) - weapon damage in appropriate mode which is defined by ammo in use, unit of measure - HP;

 

Accuracy(i) - weapon accuracy in appropriate mode, unit of measure - %;

 

TUS(i) - time expenditure in appropriate mode, unit of measure - %.

 

Damage in auto mode is calculated as triple standart damage (3 shots).

 

 

If weapon uses different types of ammo, average damage is calculated:

 

Damage av. = { http://www.filespace.org/Twilight.Owl/E.gif Damage(j) } / 3,

 

where:

 

j - number of ammo type (0, 1, 2);

 

3 - total number of ammo types;

 

Damage(j) - weapon damage which is defined by ammo in use, unit of measure - HP;

 

 

If one of ammo types is incendiary, damage for this ammo type is multiplied by "k" factor (for lack of precise information about fire damage k = 3):

 

Damage av. = { Damage(0) + Damage(1) + [Damage(2(incdendiary)) * k] } / 3.

 

 

 

Ammo cost

 

General formula:

 

Cost = WeaponCost,

 

where:

 

WeaponCost - cost of weapon which uses this ammo.

 

---

 

to be continued (close combat and throwable weapons)

Edited July 27, 2004 by Twilight Owl

[Twilight Owl]

one more costs table, from Darth Vander & Zeke: http://vandermast.ru.ru/table1.txt

[Twilight Owl]

Throwable weapons

 

General formula:

 

Cost = Damage * [ Accuracy / TUS],

 

where:

 

Damage - weapon damage, unit of measure - HP;

 

Accuracy - weapon throwing accuracy (equal to throwing accuracy of a soldier, so it's taken as minimal value of 50%), unit of measure - %;

 

TUS - total time expenditure for throwing, consists of time expenditure for priming (25% in game) and time explenditure for throwing (25% in game), unit of measure - %.

 

 

Close combat weapons

 

General formula:

 

Cost = Damage * [ Accuracy / TUS ],

 

where:

 

Damage - weapon damage, unit of measure - HP;

 

Accuracy - weapon accuracy, unit of measure - %;

 

TUS - time expenditure for using the weapon, unit of measure - %.

 

 

Average ratio of accuracy to expenditures for two modes: throwing and close combat is taken for the knife.

[Darth Vander]

Here you can look at the new variant of the weapon price costs table

 

http://vandermast.ru.ru/table1.txt

[Serge]

Probably not everyone understands what we are discussing in this thread

 

I will try to explain. We are working on the next version of ufo2000 (see changelog for detailed information about what was done since last version). Public beta releases are available here for everyone to test. In addition to other cool features (support for various mission scenarios for example), equipment cost and other properties can now be changed for better balance (by editing file init-scripts/standard-items.lua in ufo2000 directory). We would like hear your opinion about what costs do you think would be better to use in default ufo2000 configuration.

[HaJo]

Ammo cost

General formula: Cost = WeaponCost

 

I think this makes no sense.

 

The price of ammo should depend on the number of shoots and the potential damage.

As a refinement, some discounts for "old" human tech (bullets...),

and higher prices for alien tech could be applied (e.g. 75% / 150%).

 

Maybe an elerium-limit per side ?

[HaJo]

Cost of Units + Armor

 

There was no talk about armor yet, and it looks like armor is really cheap

in the current version:

• Sectoid : 4+3+3+2+2 = 14 Armor, costs 329
  
• Male/female : 12+8+8+5+2 = 35 Armor, costs 337
  
• Muton : 20+20+20+20+10 = 90 Armor, costs 345
  
• Man in X-Com-Armor: 50+40+40+30+30 = 190 Armor, costs 375
  
• Man in Powerarmor : 100+80+80+70+60 = 390 Armor, costs 425
  
• Man in Flying Armor : 110+90+90+80+70 = 440 Armor, costs 435
  

 

The difference between XCom-Armor and Powerarmor is just 50 points,

that is less than 2 grenades, and better armor is much more useful.

 

It looks like only the value of the frontarmor counts for the cost.

I propose to use the sum of all armor-parts for the cost.

And when flying is going to work, that should cost extra, too.

 

-HaJo

[Exo2000]

You call that "really cheap"? Who are you kidding? A person alone is about 3x the cost of a Laser Rifle, one with Flying Armour even moreso.

 

And how do you get from a mere 110 to 435, using nothing but x, -, +, / and the number 110?

 

And what's with people putting their names on the bottom of their posts... it's displayed beside the start of the post. Ah, whatever floats your boat(s).

[centurion]

And how do you get from a mere 110 to 435, using nothing but x, -, +, / and the number 110?

Human soldier base value 325 & armor with front value 110: 325 + 110 = 435.

[Twilight Owl]

A soldier without armor ("male"/"female") and all abilites set to 50 (25 for strength) costs 337. 12 is basic bullet-proof vest front armor, so, as Centurion has said, basic value for soldier is 325.

Then additional cost is calculated with following formula:

int p = (((md.TimeUnits * 2) + md.Stamina) / 2) +
md.Health +
(md.Reactions * 2) +
((md.Firing + md.Throwing) / 2) +
(md.Strength * 2) +
g_skins[get_skin_index(md.SkinType, md.fFemale)].armour_values[0];

where "g_skins[get_skin_index(md.SkinType, md.fFemale)].armour_values[0]" is front armor value.

Edited August 19, 2004 by Twilight Owl

[Twilight Owl]

ok, now armor cost is calculated as

cost = 2 * (front value + left value + right value + rear value + bottom value)

[Exo2000]

I'm so stupid sometimes, I swear. Heheh.

 

I prefer Vander's table. It's easier on the eyes... I can actually understand most of it! That and it's more easily read in terms of the values.

[Emperor Clobbersaurus]

Since the dev team has already decided upon using (the majority of) Vader's point values (though I approve more of a uniform series of equations for point cost determination in order to minimize arbitration and encourage standardization), I propose that the cost for the Stun Rod be dramatically decreased, to a fraction of it's current cost (20-50). Let's face it. Though powerful, it's a non-lethal melee weapon, and until the current cost of 100 is considerably reduced, I don't see it being used, ever, even for Capture objective missions (why use melee stun weapons when you can utilize one of ranged area effect when the price isn't justified, pointwise?).

 

Additionally, either increase the cost of the proximity grenade, or decrease the cost of the conventional grenade. It's rather unbalanced for the proximity weapon to be priced at a mere 10 (14% more) points higher than it's fragmentation counterpart, when it benefits from proximity detection and 20, (40%) more damage.

Edited January 2, 2005 by Emperor Clobbersaurus