The Technology Tree

[fux0r666]

Since powerful lasers are huge it would work the other way around if refinement is what you're going for.

[Guest Jim69]

It's another case of gameplay over comman sence, needs 2 be that way or the pistol's will never be researched.

[fux0r666]

They're never used, so how is this a bad thing? Heh.

[A_dxman]

you start with heavt LASERS because when you build something for the first time you havent learnt all the tricks to building that sort of thing yes.

you start with heavy because you havent refinde the technology enough to make it palm sized yet. like the first nukes, they were huge! now they can be built small enough to fit in to you school bag!!!

trains are a good examply. the first steem locomotives wre huge. as technology got better thay got smaller. then when ppl addes something new to make trains worke better thay bot big again and once the technology was perfected they started to shrink again.

building the first real laser took up a whole lab a good 20m * 20m now lasers are small enough. that doctors can opperate on people with them.

the first robots were robotic arms tyhat were as tall as a man, now robotic pets the size of small dogs or cats are becomming more common.

The first thing (LASER in this case) would be huge!!! then as the battries and gas chambers got smaller the LASERS would shring untill you could get them in to you holster and have a LASER side-arm.

[Ancalagon]

First of all, with the whole nuke thing you have to remember that the first nukes were 13 kilotons and 20 kilotons, modern nuclear warheads are much more powerful, such as the heavy laser compared to the laser pistol. The problem is that while less refined technologies are bulkier, they are also less powerful, meaning that a more accurate chain would be something like:

 

Laser Cannon -> Heavy laser-> laser rifle -> laser pistol -> Laser Cannon mk2

->heavy laser mk2 -> laser rifle mk2 -> laser cannon mk3 -> heavy laser mk3 -> laser cannon mk4

 

While this is certainly not a realistic chart of development, remember that technological improvement includes both refinements in size and in power (modern computers are a lot more powerful than UNIVAC, they are not just smaller). It would be illogical to assume that x-com scientists would make their most powerful weapon first, and then their weaker weapons. It is more logical to assume that they would make every design as small and light as possible before drawing up final blueprints. They would therefore start out with a bulky, weak design, and would refine it to a small, weak design (i.e. a pistol) and send it out. They would then realize that with advancements in laser technology it was possible to make a more powerful laser, and the would start out with a large chasis, and wittle it down to a rifle, and so on. They would eventually reach the laser cannon, which is more powerful than anything they had developed before, yet somehow small enough to fit on an interceptor.

Edited October 25, 2003 by Ancalagon

[A_dxman]

HI all

i have some new ideas for the tech tree i was working on.

below is the tree thus far. theres ALOT of new stuff, so to get through it all i sugest we look at recalculating the time to actualy complet the reserch.

have fun picking this to pieces.

Key

Symbol Meaning

=> Leads to

+ As well as

* Technology

’ Item

^ Base Facility

ML Multi-LASER

” Craft

 

Compact Batteries* => Medical kit technology* + Motion Scanner* + LASER Weapons*

Medical kit technology* => Medical Kit’

Motion Scanner* => Motion Scanner’

LASER Weapons* => LASER Pistol’ + LASER Rifle’ + Heavy LASER’ + LASER Cannon’ + LASER Defence^ + LASER Initiated Fusion Grenade (LIFG)’ + LASER Tank’

LASER Initiated Fusion Grenade (LIFG)’ => Fusion Power*

Alien Alloy’ => Personal Armour’ + Advanced Fusion Research* + Alien Metallurgy*

Advanced Fusion Research* => Fusion Missile’ + Fusion Defence^ +

Fusion Power + Advanced Fusion Research* => Fusion Reactors*

Fusion Reactors* => Fusion Reactor Facility^

Alien Metallurgy* => Molecular Manipulation* + Nano-mechanics*

Molecular Manipulation* => High Energy Chemistry*

High Energy Chemistry* => Hybrid Alloys’

High Energy Chemistry* + Fusion Reactors* => Fusion Cells*

Fusion Cells* => Multi-LASER Technology*

Multi-LASER Technology* => ML Pistol’ + ML Rifle’ + Heavy ML’ + ML Cannon’ + ML Defence’ + Auto-ML’ + ML Tank’

Alien Navigation’ => Advanced Sensors* + Optronic Computers* + Dimensional Thrusters*

Advanced Sensors* => High Resolution Radar^

Advanced Sensors* + Motion Scanner* => Local Scanner’

Optronic Computers* => Infomatrix^

Dimensional Thrusters* => Hybrid Craft Theory*

Hybrid Craft Theory* + Advanced Sensors* + Optronic Computers* => Hybrid Nav Computer’

Hybrid Craft Theory*+ High Energy Chemistry* => Fusion Propulsion*

Fusion Propulsion* => High Fusion Drive*

High Fusion Drive* => X-2”

Alien Power Source* => Inertial Compensators* + Elerium 115 Containment and Control* + Superconductors*

Elerium 115 Containment and Control* => Gravity Wave/Particle Creation* + Radiation Containment*

Inertial Compensators* => Inertial Amplification*

Inertial Compensators* + Gravity Wave/Particle Creation* => Gravic Control*

Gravic Control* => Gravic Induction*

Gravic Induction* + Hybrid Craft Theory* => X3”

Fusion Propulsion* + Gravic Induction* => Gravic Mobility*

Gravic Mobility* => High Mobile Chassis*

High Mobile Chassis* => Gravic Tank Technology*

Gravic Tank Technology* + Multi-LASER Technology* => Gravic ML Tank’

Gravic Tank Technology* + LASER Weapons* => Gravic LASER Tank’

Gravic Tank Technology* + Advanced Fusion Research* => Gravic Fusion Tank’

Superconductors* => Superconducting Magnets*

Superconducting Magnets* => Rail Gun’

Superconducting Magnets* + Fusion Cells* => Super-Repulsion Theory*

Elerium 115’ => High Potential Power Generation* + Quantum Chemistry*

Elerium 115 Containment and Control* + High Potential Power Generation* => Alien Energy Generation*

Quantum Chemistry* => Super-Heavy Elements*

Super-Heavy Elements* => The Importance of Elerium*

Optronic Computers* + Superconducting Magnets* + Alien Energy Generation* + The Importance of Elerium* => Elerium 115 Cell’

Elerium 115 Cell’ => Hybrid Weaponry*

Mind Probe’ => Telepathy*

Telepathy* => Telepathic Frequencies*

Telepathic Frequencies* => Psionic Theory*

Any Plasma Weapon’ => Plasma Weaponry*

Plasma Weaponry* => Plasma Pistol’ + Plasma Pistol Clip’ + Plasma Rifle’ + Plasma Rifle Clip’ + Heavy Plasma’ + Heavy Plasma Clip’

Plasma Pistol’ + Plasma Rifle’ + Heavy Plasma’ => Advanced Plasma Weaponry*

Advanced Plasma Weaponry* + Hybrid Weaponry* + Radiation Containment* => Plasma Cannon’

Plasma Cannon’ => Plasma Defence^

Plasma Cannon’ + Gravic Tank Technology* => Plasma Tank’

Alien Launcher Technology* => Small Launcher’

Small Launcher’ => Stun Bomb’

Alien Grenade Technology’ => Elerium 115 Grenade’

Elerium 115 Grenade’ => Launcher Adaptation*

Small Launcher’ => Launcher Adaptation*

Launcher Adaptation* => Elerium 115 Bomb’ + Fusion Bomb’

[Cpl. Facehugger]

It seems a bit complex.

One of the nice things about xcom 1 for me was the simplicity of the research tree.

[A_dxman]

Trust me. when reading all of that of the flow chart, its all a lot easyer to understand.

That and i like the complex tree - it make for mor intreating game play i think.

That and not all of the branches will interconect to alow ppl to ge the good guns and not finish reserching stuff half way through the game

[Ancalagon]

What he says is right. write up the x-com tree in text form and see how simple that is.

 

Could you turn it into flow chart for us?

 

Edit: I'm in favor of a complex tree. It adds replay value since you don't automatically know what's next and you don't nescessaily research all techs first playthrough(which is funner and more realistic IMO). But adding new weapons may not be a good idea, it could cause confusion.

Edited October 29, 2003 by Ancalagon

[Cpt. Boxershorts]

I'd suggest explaining some of the new item/tech too...what would be the difference between a motion scanner and local scanner (for example)?

 

My only other complaint is that you need to complete two research topics before you can actually build anything. Maybe make Compact Batteries (which I would name Power Cells...more technical sounding) allow you to manufacture the batteries...which are then required to manufacture other portable x-corps tech (like medikit needs 1, laser pistol needs 2, etc.).

 

 

-The Captain

 

edit: Jeez, nobody's posted yet, so avoiding double post.

 

 

Up late w/ cranky 6 week old, so put togethr a flowchart more-or-less as A_dxman outlined previously. I did make a few changes, most notably severing the laser/fusion connection (which would have alled fusion missiles (aka fusion ball) without any alien tech. LIFG was replaced w/ blaster bomb. Some minor tweaking here and there to remove excessive research topics (no topic should be more than 1-2 nodes away from a topic where you get something).

 

large grey background are areas that could be cut without any trouble. Very few Alien interrogations are here, and a few things are missing (hyperwave decoder, and more importantly, Avenger!).

 

edit: Finished off flowchart...now has (proposed) complete research tree. Everything is included here. Expect concept notes soon. A big apology to A_dxman for hijacking his proposal (although no one else has commented yet, so I don't feel too bad).

 

If no one could figure it out, I really like this tech tree A_dxman came up with. However, it may be beyond the scope of v1.

 

image here

visio file (should any one feel inspired) is here

 

 

-The captain

Edited October 31, 2003 by Cpt. Boxershorts

[demich]

As far as i remeber the most useless reserches were those linked to alien rooms.

We should change this

So According to reserch chart they can be used to:

 

Alien Surgery* => Nano medicine* => Nano-medikit' + Adv.Medical Facility^ (soldiers heal faster)

 

Alien Reproduction* + Alien Food*=> Alien Genome* => Bio warfare (like bio-pistols from Apoc.).

 

Alien Entertainment* => Adv Psi Lab^ + Adv Training Centre^

[Cpt. Boxershorts]

I think the only problme with this tech tree is that it adds alot of new functionality and equipment....for v1, I don't think we'll be changing it that much.

 

I think the big question is (before too much more work is put into this), is the tech tree somewhere we have some flexibilty in getting away from the original game?

 

I know that new facilities and weapons will not be implemented in v1..however, is the tech tree going to be identical to the orginal (thus rendering this thread moot, and probably moving it to the Lab would be best), or will be able to play with it a bit?

 

Could we get a final descision from on high?

 

-The Captain

 

Edit: Oops..re-read the entire thread, and this proposal is mostly for v1+. Still, my question stands....if we could use this most of the extra branches trimmed in v1, it would be easier to expand it v1+ (since it's all preplanned)

Edited November 1, 2003 by Cpt. Boxershorts

[red knight]

If you can find a non intrusive way of pre-planning the tech tree, I would like to hear about that...

 

Greetings

Red Knight

[Cpl. Facehugger]

Hmm, perhaps we could come up with little "technology projects" that will lead to better equipment in version 1+?

 

Ex:

 

in V1 we could have "Laser Conductors", when researched they would provide a little X-net entry, nothing more.

 

In V2+ "Laser Conductors" would lead to gattling lasers, and then gatlas tanks.

[mikker]

about the whole "big before small" thing, why don't we just (as i previusly mentioned in another thread) create alpha weaponry? First you create alpha pistols, then the laser pistol. You would have to use, fire, and kill an alien in battle in order to be able to manufacfacture the final versions. And you would need to do this to both pistol, riffle and heavy to get the HWP and defence.

[Cpl. Facehugger]

What, like prototyping?

[Cpt. Boxershorts]

If you can find a non intrusive way of pre-planning the tech tree, I would like to hear about that...

 

Greetings

Red Knight

What do you mean, "non intrusive"? Starting with the original tree, and building onto it? Or just using the concepts and general flow of the original?

 

Or do you mean adding things that don't change gameplay that much (or at all)?

 

-THe Captain

[A_dxman]

It’s nice to see that some people out there actually like my ideas!! (Cpt. Boxershorts)

I’ve been an x-com fan for a long time and I’ve been told I have a bit of a run away imagination. It’s really good to see that other x-com fans think that my ideas will work in xenocide, with the appropriate meditation.

I’ve also got a whole bunch of ideas for new aliens and even more technologies, although some seem to be against bigger and more complex tech-trees.

BTW Cpt. Boxershorts, what program did you use to make the flow chart and where do I download it, I had to do my by hand and it wont fit on my scanner!!

 

The reason I put in a LASER fusion connection is that there is some major research going in to LASER initiated fusion reactions in the UK and Japan at the moment, using lasers to start fusion reactions is seen as a way around needing to superheat the entire reaction chamber to 100000K, they think if they can superheat a small area then create a small fusion reaction, then that reaction would, under its own energy, create enough energy to superheat the rest of the reaction chamber, thus perpetuating the generation of energy and saving it in the process of turning on the reactor.

 

Oh, and, where as a motion scanner has a range of 8 and only picks up mobile targets as blips, the local scanner would see 9 or 10 and distinguish between human and non-humans, x-com and non x-com, as well as picking up static targets at half of its maximum range.

 

I’m gona keep a closer eye on this thread; I think some major developments for the world of x-com will come from here.

 

oh and the demo for UFO: aftermath is not realy x-com but once you get over that missing X-COM label on the side of things you realy start to enjoy the game!!

 

Rock on brothers and sisters of the X-com era.

Edited November 3, 2003 by A_dxman

[Cpt. Boxershorts]

Just in time to keep me from double posting...

 

 

I used MS Visio to build the flowchart...I admit, I don't think I would have had the patience to work that out by hand. It's a huge program...your best bet is to get it from work, if possible. I think MS might have a reader for it, though.

 

Well, here's a few versions, now. I know that for v1, we're trying to minimize any major gameplay changes, so I've made three versions. All of these are based on A_dxman's concept (credit where credit is due). The only major conceptual change that runs through all the ideas (and is easily changed, as it is a gameplay issue) is that most alien technologies are totally incompatiple with Earth technology. So, rather than ripping a UFO Power Source out of the medium scout, and plugging it into your new Firestorm, extensive reworking would be required to convert it to a Hybrid item. Then your new Hybrid Power Source can be installed in your Firestorm. In gameplay terms, this means that you need an Alien [Power Source/Navigation/Whatever] to build a Hybrid version.

 

However, Like I said, it can be thrown out quite easily if nobody likes it.

 

For all of the flowchats below, the viso file is available here.

 

 

The first research tree, seen here is basically just a rewrite of the original tech tree. Only original X-Com technologies are on it. The only major difference is that Alien Containment must be researched before being built (and that can be changed easily enough), and that a number of new research nodes have been added.

 

The second, available here is the same as the first, only with components. Components would be items that are requeried to build other items. For example, The first Node on the research tree is Power Cells. This would allow you to build power cells, which would be required for most early human technology (sort of the way Alien Alloys is required for most alien tech). This would involve a fairly significant gameplay change, as even basic equipment becomes more complicated to manufacture.

 

The third is here is the culmination of changes. THis one is closest to A_dxman's orginal concept, with a significant number of new technologies and game concept changes. This will almost certainly not be for v1.

 

However, the main idea behind these different version is that if we are going to change the research tree for v1, it would be best to plan it out to future version. That way adding nodes and items can be done with another major rewrite.

 

 

-The Captain

 

edit: Bad links

Edited November 3, 2003 by Cpt. Boxershorts

[A_dxman]

I think that this tech tree is great!! Thanks Cpt. Boxershorts

I have a few suggestion, cause I’m just full of strange ideas. <annoying aint I>

1. I think that, for the benefit of all, all not x-com technologies should be highlighted to show just how different the ‘end’ tech tree will be form the original.

2. I added some of the new technologies in order to allow people to have advanced human craft. I like the idea that human technicians would use things that they learnt from studying alien technology to produce hybrid craft somewhere between the lightning and the standard interceptor. This is why I put in high fusion drives in to the technology tree. My original tree included X2 and X3 to that end.

3. I linked the human LASER technology with fusion technology in order to give people something to combat those new super aliens that have been suggested, that and I like tanks, but I never have enough E-115 to keep the normal X-com fusion tanks in ammo.

4. I think that the BB should be based on some other technology, leaving fusion to humans.

5. I think that psi technology could go a lot further, more human psi weapons or possible anti-psi armour.

6. Inertial amplification should require Elerium power cells and should allow some sort of weapon, very big, very powerful and extremely heavy cannon or lead to a technology that will lead to a big gun.

7. The super repulsing theory was originally in visioned as a means to personal shield for x-com personnel, however I think that there should be some very rare alien prerequisite technology. To create personal shields. BUT I think it great the you linked it to the grav-shield.

8. After E-115 the technology order (I think) should be. !! Inertial technology should stem from one of these technologies.

E-115 + UFO power source => Alien power generation

Alien power generation => high potential power generation

High potential power generation => quantum chemistry

Quantum chemistry => Elerium power cells

Elerium power cells = > hybrid weaponry

 

That’s all I have at the moment. but i'm working on it.

[red knight]

If you can find a non intrusive way of pre-planning the tech tree, I would like to hear about that...

 

Greetings

Red Knight

What do you mean, "non intrusive"? Starting with the original tree, and building onto it? Or just using the concepts and general flow of the original?

 

Or do you mean adding things that don't change gameplay that much (or at all)?

 

-THe Captain

Non intrusive means that we can make a sort of similar (almost no change from the original technology - not progression path -) and on the other hand be ready to do addendums without changing the V1 tech tree...

 

Greetings

Red Knight

[Cpt. Boxershorts]

So....you mean more or less what I posted?

 

-The Captain

[red knight]

Well more or less, it is kinda difficult to follow, so I hope I wont be in charge of coding that in the XML format we are going to use for describing it..

 

Greetings

Red Knight

[Cpt. Boxershorts]

I know it's tough to follow, especially in the later versions. Any ideas on how to make it more readable? I tried to do that with the visio file, so that it would be easier to see the changes, but I guess it wasn't enough. I could only think of two other things:

1. Writing up the orginal x-com tree in the same layout, so people have a frame of reference. I'm not sure how much this would help, though.
    
   
2. (and this would be alot of work) Mock up a web page or something so that you trace through it a branch at a time by clicking on the nodes. Everything but the direct parent and child nodes are hidden.
   

-The Captain

[mikker]

What, like prototyping?

yes, precise.

 

and dxman, remember to give the alien something. We wouldnt want them to be outnumbered, would we?

Edited November 26, 2003 by mikker

[A_dxman]

what, give the aliens a tech that we can use? i have thought about that and i thought , nahh why worry, why not just give em some more diffrent aliens like a floating thingy with close combat skills and the ability to PSI panic ppl. I'm woking on some new aliens but most of that and just about everything else wont be implemented untill post V1

Thanks for the sugestion.

[Cpt. Boxershorts]

Can someone point me at the xml layout for the tech tree?

 

-The captian

[mikker]

what, give the aliens a tech that we can use? i have thought about that and i thought , nahh why worry, why not just give em some more diffrent aliens like a floating thingy with close combat skills and the ability to PSI panic ppl. I'm woking on some new aliens but most of that and just about everything else wont be implemented untill post V1

Thanks for the sugestion.

hmmmm, it would be cool with a flying psi alien with only meelee attack. it would have better psi then etherials then?

 

and i don't talk about aliens, but if we give the human too much gears, it would be far too easy to complete the game. like in x-com, after you got the power/flying suit and heavy plasma, then you have basicly won the game.

[Cpt. Boxershorts]

OKay, here it is...the long awaited official xml tech layout. I've included two samples: The first is an entry in the initial tech tree template, and the second is an entry from a player's saved game. For a more detailed explaination of the fields, there is a version of the tech tree from the original X-Com : Enemy Unknown written up in this format here. Please note, this is NOT the tech tree for Xenocide.

 

Template

<!--Heavy Plasma -->
<topic name="Heavy Plasma">

 <research>
 	<researchtime>100</researchtime>
 </research>
 
 <prerequisite>
 	<item name="Heavy Plasma" />
 </prerequisite>

 <researchbonus />

 <grants>
 	<xnet name="Heavy Plasma" />
 	<item name="Heavy Plasma" />
 </grants>

 <obsoletes>
 	<topic name="Heavy Plasma" />
 </obsoletes>
</topic>

 

Save Game

<!--Heavy Plasma -->
<topic name="Heavy Plasma">

 <research>
 	<complete>False</complete>
 	<researchtime>100</researchtime>
 	<hoursresearched>0</hoursresearched>
 </research>
 
 <prerequisite>
 	<item name="Heavy Plasma" />
 </prerequisite>

 <researchbonus />

 <grants>
 	<xnet name="Heavy Plasma" />
 	<item name="Heavy Plasma" />
 </grants>

 <obsoletes>
 	<topic name="Heavy Plasma" />
 </obsoletes>
</topic>

 

 

-The Captain

Edited January 14, 2004 by Cpt. Boxershorts

[MagicAndy]

impressive Edited January 26, 2004 by MagicAndy

[Magstar]

hmmmm, it would be cool with a flying psi alien with only meelee attack. it would have better psi then etherials then?

 

and i don't talk about aliens, but if we give the human too much gears, it would be far too easy to complete the game. like in x-com, after you got the power/flying suit and heavy plasma, then you have basicly won the game.

That was only because the AI in X-Com never came up with a tactical solution to combat flying suit heavy plasma fighters. The difficulty level would remain constant no matter what equipment we gave the humans if the alien AI improved at the same rate.