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#1 Pringle

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Posted 11 December 2002 - 05:41 PM

Just a couple of random thoughts...

Kamikaze:
Your interceptor is out of ammo? Your weapons are crap? You don't have any weapons? KAMIKAZE! Destroys your interceptor but causes loads of damage, usually taking out the enemy ship...

Controlled Combat:
When you enter into air combat a mini-map opens up so you can control your fighters manually, haven't really thought of specifics, just an idea...

Modular Design:
Rather than simply having an interceptor which can be equiped with 2 guns, why not have an interceptor that has:
2 Weapon Slots
1 Engine Slot
1 Armour Slot
1 Shield Slot
1 Misc Slot
or something similar, that way instead of your interceptors becoming obsolete you can always upgrade the engines and add an extra fuel pod so they can still keep up with the enemy. Maybe normal interceptors can only handle certain engine types, the faster engines can only be fitted to Avengers.

Anyway, if anyone has ever played the game Stars! you will know exactly what I mean... ideally there would be a lot more craft types available for this idea to be best... should I bye an expensive new craft or should I upgrade my old stuff?

Maybe fitting new parts needs to be done in a workshop and needs some engineers free...

Bombs:
Fit your transport craft with bomb bays, bomb enemy bases to weaken their forces before you deploy your men...

Oh well, thats all I can think of for now, let me know what you think...
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#2 Devatar

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Posted 12 December 2002 - 12:29 AM

Yeah, the kamikaze idea is goooooOOOd. :D

And i agree with the modules, kinda like the way x-com: apocalypse was built. It gives more flexibility and realism to the game.

About the controlled air combat... I hope you're not thinking 3D coz I think that's gonna kill our programmers.
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#3 Pringle

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Posted 12 December 2002 - 06:30 AM

Hehe, nah, 3D would lose the feel of X-Com, thinking about it a bit more I'm not sure whether manual combat would be that good anyway; however it would allow you to send out multiple interceptors to try and take down large enemy craft.

The idea I was originally thinking of was a simplified version of the tactical interface; no terrain (maybe clouds that act like smoke screens), craft take up 4 squares like HWP, but if your using a troop carrier soldiers with flight suits could possibly get out to offer support. O:)
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#4 Spaceman42

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Posted 25 January 2003 - 02:04 PM

Heh. Top-down MEGA ARCADE STYLE!!!

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Posted 25 January 2003 - 02:56 PM

It would be nice if a version of XCOM Interceptor was "available". Then we could see how the first persony XCOM pilot thing feels. Remake V1 is planned to be almost like the orginal. So likely the first person pilot thing won't be in it. I would be nice though if it eventually did make it. ANd if so it would be nice if more of us had seen XCOM IV.

#6 ApOcaLyPSe_1985

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Posted 25 January 2003 - 03:09 PM

You should create Pilot stats if you want to kamikaze or bomb.
You think every pilot wants to sacrifice their lives if someone orders
them to? I don't think so.
So that's why you have to add stats like morale, bravery, concentration, reflexes, pride etc.
If you don't then:

1. A rich player just sets up a base next to a existing one, containing only hangars to create interceptors with and uses this as a kamikaze defense all the time in a multi-game (I would do it :P)
2. The same rich player (me :D) sets up millions of bases to both bomb and kamikaze. MWAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

So if you use stats, the pilot will think twice before doing a risky action like kamikaze or bomb.
It balances the gameplay, and boosts game realism.

#7 Maverick

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Posted 25 January 2003 - 04:22 PM

Kamikazee sounds cool, but I for one would never use it (just not my style...or I would use it with an avenger? just for comic value -- that's my style)

as for modular craft: I definately agree; but we need to decide how modular they are to be. I don't think engines should be modular. Other than that, I agree with this stuff.

X-com interceptor was shoddily (is that a word?) made imo. It was fun, but I beat it in 2 days (literally, i opened the box one day and beat it the following day). Regardless, it was a great storyline, and actually takes place BEFORE the apocalypse timeline. (it was a prequel i guess...) There was no real depth to it though, it almost reached the arcade feel of Enforcer (which I hated by the way). I'd much rather see air combat go like apocalypse where they just have a FFA between all the ships involved (of course apocalypse had multiple ships come at once...). It would be cool to see a fusion ball launcher though. (small mushroom cloud appears on the horizon... I'd use that weapon just to watch that happen)

#8 Cyker

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Posted 31 January 2003 - 05:27 AM

I don't think that we invented shield technology for aircraft yet. ;)

The same thing is with armour - it is not possible to equip aircraft with better armour than interceptors initially have as long as we use terrestrial materials, because as you may read in ufopaedia interceptors use latest technology on earth. But in case we want to add armour to aircraft (probably from new alien material), as an engineer I may only tell you that that the aircraft would need to be completely rebuild.

We may eventually add armour slot this option for tanks (they be constructed to be more damage resistant with a new revolutionary material such as alien alloys), but I think that option would be rather obsolete.

And about kamikaze - I think that pilots can eject several seconds before crash ;) and then craft can be guided remotely from a control tower.

#9 Fatal_Error

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Posted 31 January 2003 - 06:16 AM

And about kamikaze - I think that pilots can eject several seconds before crash ;) and then craft can be guided remotely from a control tower.

as far as i know kamikaze does not include ejecting the pilot. why? coz that way the pilot can guide the plane where it hurts most with the best accuracy :D
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#10 Whatever

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Posted 31 January 2003 - 12:52 PM

What about computercontrolled or distance controlled aircrafts???? (For kamikaze)
Cause who would want to use kamikaze pilots in the 21st century??????????

#11 Fatal_Error

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Posted 31 January 2003 - 01:01 PM

What about computercontrolled or distance controlled aircrafts???? (For kamikaze)
Cause who would want to use kamikaze pilots in the 21st century??????????

I WOULD!!! *raises two hands* MWUA HA HA HA HA...!!! :devillaugh:
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#12 CaptainCharisma

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Posted 31 January 2003 - 09:11 PM

Modular sounds cool. But the fun part about xcoc aircraft assults on UFO's were "radar" so it was more realisitic that you "the commander" be at base, give the order to engage or back off... but had no say in the actual piloting itself. BTW in X-Com 1 you can attack a UFO with multiple Aircraft. Just minimize the assult window when you engage, and allow the second interecptor to catch up to the target. At that point, you will see two attack radars, once for each interceptor. You can do this for up to four interceptors. O:)
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#13 Icarus

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Posted 01 February 2003 - 05:08 PM

What about computercontrolled or distance controlled aircrafts???? (For kamikaze)
Cause who would want to use kamikaze pilots in the 21st century??????????

I WOULD!!! *raises two hands* MWUA HA HA HA HA...!!! :devillaugh:

Me too.... :devilsmile: :devilsmile: :devilsmile:

#14 Pringle

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Posted 03 February 2003 - 07:52 AM

I don't think that we invented shield technology for aircraft yet. ;)

The same thing is with armour - it is not possible to equip aircraft with better armour than interceptors initially have as long as we use terrestrial materials, because as you may read in ufopaedia interceptors use latest technology on earth. But in case we want to add armour to aircraft (probably from new alien material), as an engineer I may only tell you that that the aircraft would need to be completely rebuild.

We may eventually add armour slot this option for tanks (they be constructed to be more damage resistant with a new revolutionary material such as alien alloys), but I think that option would be rather obsolete.

And about kamikaze - I think that pilots can eject several seconds before crash ;) and then craft can be guided remotely from a control tower.

Ok fair enough with the armour...

I was not implying that we had developed shield technology; but then again we haven't developed plasma technology, laser technology or blaster launchers but they can still be learnt in X-Com

I know shields don't exist yet but I'm sure that the aliens would have some sort of shielding around their ships; if we are able to adapt alien propulsion technology to our own ends I don't think it would be difficult to retro-fit a shield generator once its been researched...

On another note...

The kamikaze isn't necessarily an intentional attack so you wouldn't be remotely piloting planes; you would attack the craft as normal intending to destroy it, you cause maybe 50% damage but the craft is just to powerful you have suffered 80% damage and will be dead in a few more shots; you could disengage and return to base for repairs, but if you do the alien infiltration attempt will almost certainly succeed, does the pilot sacrifice himself in order to help save the world? His bravery decides, also his reflexes could determine if he is able to eject in time or not...
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#15 Whatever

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Posted 03 February 2003 - 09:14 AM

I don't know if i accept the loss of 600.000 to destroy an alien craft.


if i can save the craft i'd defintely bring it in for repairs.

#16 Pringle

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Posted 03 February 2003 - 01:50 PM

Craft Cost: 600,000
Country Value: 1,000,000+ per year funding?

I think I'd be willing to sacrifice a craft for the sake of my country; anyway, all I'm saying is I think the option should be there, if you'd prefer to risk losing the country and send your craft back for repairs by all means go ahead... :)
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#17 Breunor

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Posted 06 February 2003 - 06:04 PM

I think the idea of modular slots would be good for the multiplayer future of the game, but at the very least I'd like to see 2 things improve regarding interceptors(and maybe I'm missing something from the original game): You should be able to launch more than 1 interceptor from a base at the exact same time, so they reach the ufo together. If you minimize an interceptor screen to wait for another plane to arrive, the first one should pop back up when the second one appears, so you can time the attack better.

#18 chazor

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Posted 21 February 2003 - 11:19 AM

Ok, I'll be honest. I like the idea of a better shoot out between UFOs and X-COM cradft, but think how much memory that would take up! Still, I think a more detailed view of the attack should be done. Maybe show it from thew pilots viewpoint or have better graphics for the weapons, hmm?

#19 Pringle

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Posted 24 February 2003 - 06:12 AM

I don't think the way they show air combat is bad; since the Geoscape is meant to represent the control station of a commanding officer its not likely that he'd have a cockpit view (not really practical).

Perhaps have a small bit of video footage pop up at one side showing an interceptor bringing down the alien craft (you could have similar footage for when a skyranger lands, etc).
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#20 obijuan

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Posted 24 February 2003 - 07:28 AM

i also think the xcomapoc way would be far more realistic than a cockpit view

#21 I Come in Peace!

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Posted 19 May 2003 - 05:18 AM

I don't know about you but if I was pilot and a had to make a kamikaze I would DEFINATELY do it!We are tolking for the surviving of man kind!

#22 Breunor

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Posted 19 May 2003 - 07:47 AM

Unless the alien ship was seriously damaged, I don't think you'd ever get the chance to fly an interceptor into the alien ship. They'd get point blank shots at you, be able to maneuver, and the impact wouldn't be much, since you're not going much faster than the UFO. So bumping it with your plane probably wouldn't do much to the UFO at all. Definitely not worth doing unless you're about to lose anyway.

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Posted 19 May 2003 - 11:14 AM

wishlisty kind of thing.

Gun camera footage. appears in small window.
Live 3d render, Showing just the ufo against a sky background.
Gun/missile fire going in, plasma fire coming towards screen.
Ufo getting bigger smaller as you change aggression state of aircraft

(Imagine a nosecone version of the original radar view).

Smoke pours out as ufo is damaged.
Picture breaks up as plane gets damaged, goes blank if it goes down.(screenful of static).

How this works: Smoke and mirrors:Camera inside a sky/ground sphere, this sticks to the camera transform (so the sky/ground never gets closer).
change the texture on the sphere for day/night over land/water.

Then low poly version of the ufo, which the camera chases around a 3d worldspace. gunfire is the same sort of effect we'll need for the ingame stuff, same with smoke and explosions. so we should be able to reuse those effects and graphics.

This is just a brainfart, so best to run it past a coder first before I get too excited.

#24 Breunor

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Posted 19 May 2003 - 12:00 PM

It would definitely be better than the original radar screen. It would look really nice when you have more than one interceptor there, as the alien gun fire would flash towards one screen, but be off at an angle in respect to the other nosecam screens.

#25 GreatGold

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Posted 19 May 2003 - 02:24 PM

Hey -

You got me thinking... :devillaugh: . Remeber all the old World War II movies, or even actual documentaries of any era of air combat? Remeber how you were almost in tears after listening to the radio calls of the airmen going down in flames? The best example that comes to mind, and forgive my spelling, is the Tuskegee Airmen movie (with the Morpheus from the Matrix as the lead). When Pappy is going down in the end...woah...

So, I guess my point is, if we are going to have any radio calls...then this would be the place to put em. It could really draw you into the game, and increase the mood. Imagine assualting a battleship that you just saw, and HEARD, take out two of your best interceptor pilots... Could really increase the emotions. For some reason, a lot of people feel for airmen, so lets use that...

What ya think?
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#26 Kenshiro

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Posted 25 June 2003 - 11:24 PM

I hear you can get a 1942 clone open source. A few 16 bit sprites, a couple sound effect changes... Shazam! No, it's not the carrier Akagi - it's a Large UFO!

*waggles eyebrows and waves a cigar stub*

Seriously though, the radio calls might be cool, but you'd have to do a few of em to keep it from being repetitive. I mean, the first couple times you hear the panicky voice of Lieutenant Generic as he bites the dust, it could be tense, but after awhile it's just background noise.

#27 Breunor

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Posted 26 June 2003 - 06:31 AM

Unless it's an imitation of Arnold Schwarzenegger crying out in pain, you could listen to that for ages. After all, we have for years of his movies! ^_^

And as a big Arnold fan, I'm partial to that as well.

There is talk about having sound bites for the soldiers in the battlescape during critical points, like shooting an alien or dying, so if that happens this could be another item added to the list. If we get several people male and female to record similar things, you'd have plenty of variety.

#28 Nickisimo

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Posted 26 June 2003 - 06:40 AM

I think we need to get the guy who did the voice of Duke in Duke Nukem 3D...man that'd be sweet...every time you blast an alien, you'd hear something clever like, "your @ss, your face...i can't tell the difference". :explode:

#29 stoopher

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Posted 26 June 2003 - 10:59 AM

Hang on wasn't the last xcom game duke nuke'm with a robot?

cybervoisce: "I'm here to kick donkey and chew gum, damn I'm all outta gum."
"I'm gonna rip your head off and sh1t down your neck!"
"You're an inspiration for birth control"
"Damn you're Ugly!"

There are lots of option for the interception bit I think We need to find a real killer idea.

I think kamikaze is out though. The game should be hard and tight andlosses cannot be afforded. It is as much about the minimanagement as it is about the missions. In I reckon is morre about what goes on out of the missions.

And so I think the gamer should play a character. So if the character goes on the mission the gamer plays it. If not then not so. It would mean mission which could be simulated from a distance. With distance management.

#30 mikker

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Posted 26 June 2003 - 03:39 PM

it would be great if you could make the pilot say things when he wins, and make him yell mayday mayday! when he is downed (if its agenst a battleship, there would be total silence, if its shot...)

"Watch it! Theres a long way down!"
"That'll teach you not to not to mess with humanity!"
"Bang bang, your dead!"
"pitty...you almost got me down....not!"
"now, why didn't you take your time, and got some REAL weaponry???"


i belive that you already PLAY a cherrecter...you are the commander of X-com, and you never go to battle. The battlescape is....well....diffrent...

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#31 stoopher

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Posted 26 June 2003 - 05:43 PM

Nar,
In xcom1 you play a sort of god who directly control every poor sod troopers moves and can see anywhere on the whole globe and spin in like a base ball and accelerate time. Really if you weremanaging this sort of project you would have a location in a base and some missions you would be able to skip and some you would have to simply not be present. Some missions you could control from the drop ship, by seeing images from soldier headsets, andriod eyepiece live feeds and also and cameras you may have on the drop ship or suspended from gantries/ballons/antigrav devices.

You could walk and and fight amoungst the men or you could commandeer an android and play with the mouse and keyboard in the drop ship like you were playing counter strike at home - this lets you still tactially guide your men. , or you could walk out the craft and fight amoungst your men. This lets you assign a trooper to guide then men so if you down't want to you can leave then craft and go kisk donkey. The ideal mixture of brain testing or outright death&slaughter. Perfect for a relxing evening in

#32 warhamster

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Posted 26 June 2003 - 08:25 PM

As i said in a previous another thread, we should be careful about the stuff we put in to the game. The beauty of xcom was that we actually used our imagination. If all the high tech gadgets help us to achieve that then great. but let's caution ourselves not to get carried away.

Maybe Xcom pilots can gain XP too. just a thought.

#33 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 26 June 2003 - 08:43 PM

I always thought that u were the Supreme Commander of X-Com on the Geoscape, and squad leader on the Battlescape. I may be wrong tho.

#34 dipstick

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Posted 27 June 2003 - 01:45 PM

Well, I say, more interceptors should be allowed against one UFO (imagine a fleet of interceptors v one small scout :naughty: :naughty: :naughty: perhaps a little bit overkill) Also, why don't we abolish hangars, and adopt more of a Apoc style???
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#35 mikker

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Posted 28 June 2003 - 12:26 PM

why? i loved to have hangars, and i didn't think they filled too much. 2-3 hangers, was enougth......

No hangars in apoc????? hmm....I though that they had pretty many vehicles to start with...

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#36 dipstick

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Posted 28 June 2003 - 01:26 PM

You have never lived until you have played Apoc, built your first Retaliators and Annihiators. It is great when you see your ships rise and destroy; also, no expensive hangars, and less points of entry for a base. Also, if you surround your access lift with advanced security stations NOTHING gets through for your men to pick off!
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