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Battlescape Soldier Selection


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#1 j'ordos

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Posted 09 July 2003 - 02:03 PM

Has there already been given thought to the soldier selection in the battlescape? 'Cause in the first Xcom (and the second) you had to click on a soldier to get that one selected, but if you misclicked your currently selected soldier would walk to that point, what in some cases would be the last you wanted :cussing:
Perhaps an 'unselect' key could be used, or the system like in Apoc?
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#2 miceless

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Posted 09 July 2003 - 02:15 PM

Has there already been given thought to the soldier selection in the battlescape? 'Cause in the first Xcom (and the second) you had to click on a soldier to get that one selected, but if you misclicked your currently selected soldier would walk to that point, what in some cases would be the last you wanted :cussing:
Perhaps an 'unselect' key could be used, or the system like in Apoc?

Yeah, how many times have I moved a soldier to a stupid place due to a) lag B) not paying attention c) mouse trouble and d) having the cat run across the keyboard.

There should be some way to solve this. An unselect button would work, or using RMB to select soldiers.

Out of interest, what is the Apoc system? Since Apoc doest work on my PC, I dont know.

EDIT: Interesting, my "b )" turned into a smiley.
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#3 j'ordos

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Posted 09 July 2003 - 02:45 PM

In Apoc your soldiers are grouped in 'squads' (1 through... 6 I believe), with a max of 6 (or was it eight :wacko: ) soldiers per squad. You could select your soldiers by clicking on the image of a squad in the taskbar(every soldier in that squad selected) or on the image of one soldier (only that soldier selected)

Well, right-click is also used to open doors, or is that not any more? But I guess that wouldn't really matter, only when soldier A is standing in front of a door you DON't want to open and try to select soldier B but miss... :hammer:
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#4 miceless

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Posted 09 July 2003 - 03:00 PM

In Apoc your soldiers are grouped in 'squads' (1 through... 6 I believe), with a max of 6 (or was it eight :wacko: ) soldiers per squad. You could select your soldiers by clicking on the image of a squad in the taskbar(every soldier in that squad selected) or on the image of one soldier (only that soldier selected)

Interesting.... Shame the silly game wont work for me! :hate:

Well, right-click is also used to open doors, or is that not any more? But I guess that wouldn't really matter, only when soldier A is standing in front of a door you DON't want to open and try to select soldier B but miss...


That would certainly be less of a problem, but the RMB idea was just an example.

:hammer:


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#5 j'ordos

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Posted 09 July 2003 - 03:07 PM

QUOTE (j'ordos @ Jul 9 2003, 11:51 PM)




What is it with you and the hammer emote?

FINALLY, someone noticed :LOL:
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#6 j'ordos

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Posted 09 July 2003 - 05:56 PM

Another possibility I just thought of:
-to select a soldier you leftclick once,
-to move him/her you have to double leftclick where you want him, single click wouldn't do anything unless you clicked on another soldier, then that one would be selected,
-opening doors is still rightclick
-shooting is still leftclick
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#7 c4t

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Posted 09 July 2003 - 07:51 PM

i had noticed that you use it a lot too, in my opinion there well placed though :)
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#8 miceless

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Posted 09 July 2003 - 11:38 PM

What is it with you and the hammer emote?

FINALLY, someone noticed :LOL:

Ive been noticing for ages, but never got round to asking you.
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#9 mamutas

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Posted 10 July 2003 - 09:24 PM

Another possibility I just thought of:
-to select a soldier you leftclick once,
-to move him/her you have to double leftclick where you want him, single click wouldn't do anything unless you clicked on another soldier, then that one would be selected,
-opening doors is still rightclick
-shooting is still leftclick

Or we can change cursor depending on what it points:
if it points to a walkable area - it is a normal shape or shape of feet
if it points to a selectable unit - it is some sort of selection marker
if it points to an alien - it is a target.
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#10 miceless

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Posted 11 July 2003 - 12:05 AM

Or we can change cursor depending on what it points:
if it points to a walkable area - it is a normal shape or shape of feet
if it points to a selectable unit - it is some sort of selection marker
if it points to an alien - it is a target.

Im not sure that would help much. I think its a matter of mis-clicking, not not knowing where to click.
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#11 j'ordos

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Posted 11 July 2003 - 03:35 AM

True, most of the time it's just a matter of trying to be too fast, or my mousecursor decides right at that moment it's time to take a stroll :(
It's not a matter of not being clear enough, but actually clicking near instead of on target :wacko:
(nice when you were actually targeting an alien and suddenly you're standing right next to it without TU's left <_< )

Edited by j'ordos, 11 July 2003 - 03:37 AM.

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#12 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 11 July 2003 - 06:35 AM

This is a revision of a suggestion I made a while ago.
Would this make things easier?

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#13 j'ordos

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Posted 11 July 2003 - 07:13 AM

Just took a glance at your proposal, and that could solve the problem indeed. It's just,... I think this interface will slow down the game too much. You want to move one space ahead: click->move->walk->click one space ahead. Hmm, not far enough, one more space: click->move->walk->click one space ahead. Damn, still not enough: click->move->walk->click one space ahead... Dang! Still no line of sight! A screw it, I'll move 10 spaces at once :angry: ! I think it would be too tedious, especially if those icons take a while to appear :unsure:

On the other hand, I'd love that "simultaneous turn-based" combat system la LSN, especially in multiplayer :D
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"The mind is like an umbrella, it functions best when open" - Walter Gropius
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#14 mikker

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Posted 11 July 2003 - 08:13 AM

yes, that version would work in multiplayer, so the games will run more smoothly.

But it really seams to take far to much time. In Warcraft3, i belive you move with a right click, and select with a left click. Should'nt we do so also? it would ease things.

Edited by mikker, 11 July 2003 - 08:15 AM.

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#15 Nickisimo

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Posted 11 July 2003 - 08:20 AM

A fallout tactics version type real-time would be neat, only for multi though. :rock:

#16 Breunor

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Posted 11 July 2003 - 09:08 AM

I agree that something like warcraft could work well. Left click only selects units, and left clicking on nothing deselects. Right click will move you to a empty location, right click on an object and the default action is carried out. Open a door (without moving!), fire at a target, etc. But if you have two items in your hands, say a pistol and a grenade, right-clicking needs to know which to do, fire or throw.

#17 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 11 July 2003 - 09:29 AM

There's no need to deselect a troop in this type of game, the LMB would surfice to open doors. As long as the move and select soldier btn is diff it would be fine, as these are the most used ones.

#18 j'ordos

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Posted 11 July 2003 - 10:41 AM

You'd also need a button to turn your dudes around, is RMB in TFTD, the same as for opening doors.
So let's see what other actions need to be done:

1)selecting/unselecting, (unselecting may not be necessary, but I'll include it here)

2)looking around

3)opening doors

4)walking (running/crawling/stealth...?)

5)firing (possibly dual?; also mind control/reading, motion tracking, throwing...)

6)kneeling?

7)up/down elevator

6) & 7) can be done with a button on screen, as can 3) but I'd prefer a MB for that.

So I'd say: selecting LMB, walking double LMB, opening doors/turning RMB,
firing LMB on target, then popup comes up: if holding 1 weapon: shot choice (aimed, auto,...); if holding an item: options for it (i.e. grenade: prime, throw); if holding 2 weapons: select which one (possibly both) and then select shot type; if holding a weapon and an item: select either to use item or to shoot with weapon, then further options.

Hmm, I hope this is understandable?
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#19 mikker

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Posted 11 July 2003 - 11:22 AM

Fire commands should be like in X-com...

so like this

1)selecting/unselecting,
select: left click
unselect: left click on nothing

2)looking around
i don't know....

3)opening doors
right-click on the doors.

4)walking (running/crawling/stealth...?)
right-click

5)firing (possibly dual?; also mind control/reading, motion tracking, throwing...)
first selection like in X-com, then right-click.

6)kneeling?
checkbox, you can check run, walk, kneel (walk when moving), crawl

7)up/down elevator (right-click on a diffrent elevation of the elevator, like in X-com. )

Edited by mikker, 11 July 2003 - 11:22 AM.

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#20 mamutas

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Posted 11 July 2003 - 11:29 AM

There is a thread somewhere, where Deimos proposed UI for battlescape. This UI is a very good one for the first try. It has several buttons (especially for weapons), which we are going to use for weapon selection and firing. Look at the thread first.
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#21 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 11 July 2003 - 06:38 PM

Fire commands should be like in X-com...

so like this

I agree mostly with what u have said, I have a few opinions tho

1)selecting/unselecting,
select: left click
unselect: left click on nothing

My vote is 4 nothing, but it doesn't matter really I spose. Just takes up an unnecessary mouse btn.

2)looking around
i don't know....

I really think there should be a mouse btn 4 this, it is one of the main things I do. I also think it should have a priority btn, meaning it should be only one mouse btn not a double click. Right click would be fine I guess

4)walking (running/crawling/stealth...?)
right-click

I think it should be RMB, but with a double click, so 1 click turns u that way, and the second moves u.

5)firing (possibly dual?; also mind control/reading, motion tracking, throwing...)
first selection like in X-com, then right-click.

Sounds good

6)kneeling?
checkbox, you can check run, walk, kneel (walk when moving), crawl

Ditto

7)up/down elevator (right-click on a diffrent elevation of the elevator, like in X-com. )

Got no prob with that also

#22 Fred the Goat

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Posted 18 July 2003 - 01:37 PM

Hmm...I think the interface should be kept similar to the original, if only for nostaligia's sake. Anyway, what about the Jagged Alliance setup? Left click just plots a path, something like drewid drew, with a time unit label and maybe some cute little feet, and then another left click on the same end point executes the movement. I think crawl, etc should just be toggle buttons like the original, but I suppose I ought to check out Deimos' UI thread before I make any more suggestions.

#23 Rwn

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Posted 18 July 2003 - 01:45 PM

Yeah, I loved JA's displacement system, it was much more convenient than UFO's. As you have to double left-click, the probability of selecting somebody else is reduced (you usually look at the path and th TU requirement before clicking a second time), and if you see you've done a mistake, clicking with any button stops the unit.

#24 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 18 July 2003 - 03:23 PM

In the end as long as mistakes don't happen like wasting TU's in UFO, u will get used to the btn's as long as they arent too outlandish. Took me a while 2 get used 2 X-Box pad, but now I have I'm glad I got it, it's perfect :) Just comes with practice 4 the ol digits.