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#101 Anglachel

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Posted 08 May 2003 - 09:27 PM

I vote for increase damage. The movement of such volitale material is highly dangerous. Having it could present the possibility of a ship blowing up on one hit. But it was just an idea.

We need to get more advanced weapons concept sketches going, especially the alien tech stuff.

The stun bomb would be similar I guess, with a pin/trigger machanism attached somehow.

I reckon it works like an EMP weapon only it attacks the central nervous system like a taser. So there would be a bright flash and big sparks.

:idea:
Before people are abducted they remember a bright flash then they are on a space ship. This is flash comes from the Alien Proximity Neuralizer. The device on top detects neural activity. As someone gets closer to it, the neural activity it detects gets stronger untill it is triggered. The device opens up and sends out a field of energized particles that over stimulate the nervous system and temporaly paralyzes its victim. :huh?: Or what ever. It was this or study psychology, tough decision huh? :LOL:

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#102 Anglachel

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Posted 08 May 2003 - 09:50 PM

How about this for possible plasma style weapons?

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#103 mamutas

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Posted 08 May 2003 - 09:57 PM

Looks interesting.
You are really good with weapon modelin, do you know that?
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#104 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 09 May 2003 - 01:34 AM

nice

How would it look with the back of the spikes blended into the body, and the big pipes at the back blended into the back surface. kinda like this one.
(This isn't mine BTW)

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#105 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 09 May 2003 - 02:02 AM

here's a quick scribble.

Just a suggestion, feel free to tell me to bog off if ya want.

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#106 Breunor

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Posted 09 May 2003 - 08:06 AM

Beautiful designs! The spikes are used to focus the plasma flow or something like that? Very nice! It might look cool to have the tubes be translucent, glowing green like Drewid's pic. Having it shug against the main body sounds like a good option.

So Anglachel, should I add you back to the that list??? :rock:

#107 Anglachel

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Posted 09 May 2003 - 08:06 AM

Looks good to me. Mine was just a general idea. That looks more like a final product.

#108 Anglachel

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Posted 09 May 2003 - 08:07 AM

Beautiful designs! The spikes are used to focus the plasma flow or something like that? Very nice! It might look cool to have the tubes be translucent, glowing green like Drewid's pic. Having it shug against the main body sounds like a good option.

So Anglachel, should I add you back to the that list??? :rock:

might as well.

#109 Breunor

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Posted 09 May 2003 - 08:08 AM

The round bulbs at the end could be the plasma clips, makes them stand out from standard ammo clips.

#110 Anglachel

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Posted 09 May 2003 - 08:14 AM

That was half of my idea. One was going to be the clip. If you make the clips in the original, you have to use Elerium, so something has to activate the elerium to make it into the plasma. The other container would generate high energy ions and flood the chamber in the barrel creating the plasma.
Yes I watch a lot of Sci-fi movies and shows.

#111 Breunor

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Posted 09 May 2003 - 08:17 AM

I added you back in, included the pic you posted as the screenshot too. You idea sounds good for the functioning of the weapon. So maybe each tube glows a different color, one for elerium and the other for the ions, and then the plasma beam in game would be another color as well.

#112 Anglachel

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Posted 09 May 2003 - 08:19 AM

I will work on a rendering when I find some time, to get a better idea of what it would look like.

#113 mikker

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Posted 09 May 2003 - 10:40 AM

Anglachel, that alien thinggy is great!

finnaly...Here is a new screenie.

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#114 red knight

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Posted 09 May 2003 - 01:20 PM

here's a quick scribble.

Just a suggestion, feel free to tell me to bog off if ya want.

This one looks pretty nice, maybe with smaller ? horns??? (dont know the word in english for that)...

And can you post different view renders, to see it as a whole?

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#115 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 09 May 2003 - 01:32 PM

here's a quick scribble.

Just a suggestion, feel free to tell me to bog off if ya want.

This one looks pretty nice, maybe with smaller ? horns??? (dont know the word in english for that)...

And can you post different view renders, to see it as a whole?

Greetings
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I could if I rendered it, It's Anglachel's I just fiddled with it as an idea of a direction to maybe go in.

#116 Deimos

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Posted 09 May 2003 - 02:53 PM

nice

How would it look with the back of the spikes blended into the body, and the big pipes at the back blended into the back surface. kinda like this one.
(This isn't mine BTW)

Wahey its the xbox plasma pistol :D

How about if the plasma rifle had four spikes then the plasma bolt would be stabilised on all axis. It'd double up well as a bayonet as well.

Very cool stuff guys.

#117 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 09 May 2003 - 03:18 PM

If it was x-box it would be twice the size of any other pistol and be full of existing technology. :D

#118 Anglachel

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Posted 09 May 2003 - 04:15 PM

Wahey its the xbox plasma pistol :D

How about if the plasma rifle had four spikes then the plasma bolt would be stabilised on all axis. It'd double up well as a bayonet as well.

Very cool stuff guys.

Not familiar with the xbox plasma pistol.

I was thinking of four prong things on the equivilant of the Heavy Plasma unless that weapon is going to be excluded or replaced with something else. The bigger the weapon the meaner it must look. :devillaugh:

#119 Deimos

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Posted 09 May 2003 - 05:09 PM

If it was x-box it would be twice the size of any other pistol and be full of existing technology. :D

Oh you're killing me :devillaugh:

it'd still be faster and more powerful though :D

Anglachel I was referring to the fact that Drewids design looked like the design of the xbox skin for windows media player :)

#120 Breunor

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Posted 09 May 2003 - 09:25 PM

it'd still be faster and more powerful though :D

But when you went to reload it, only the most expensive ammo would work, and the ammo's only good for so long... :cussing:

Also, I'm looking for comments/feedback on this. It requires java to work. Ignore the java applet link, required until it's registered... Some links have info/pics, others don't. Xenopedia concept in progress.

#121 Anglachel

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Posted 09 May 2003 - 10:22 PM

The only thing I don't like is it seems to cluttered. Maybe if the other topics fade when you select one? Other than that I like.

#122 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 10 May 2003 - 12:40 AM

Looks nice. I had a look at that site, there are some very funky effects.

I agree. Perhaps you should only show the current path from the root.

So once you select 'x-net -> weapons', all of the other 'x-net' links fade out so you are left with:
'x-net -> weapons -> weapons children'.

Edit: Obviously we'd tie in the visuals , I was just thinking how nice it would lookwith the blue/grey and green buttons/lights of the geo interface.

Edited by drewid, 10 May 2003 - 12:43 AM.


#123 Breunor

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Posted 10 May 2003 - 09:29 AM

Yeah, adding appropriate graphics is easy enough and would tie in the look and feel nicely. The java applet isn't mine, so the cluttered look is a fixed feature right now. I found an opensource version of java, and it could be redone so that other menus disappear I expect. I thought it would look cool to have each item start large, and get smaller as you go into the menus. So XNet starts large, you click it and it shrinks, the other menus come up large. You click weapons, the others disappear, weapons shrinks, XNet shrinks even more, etc. The text color could also get darker, starts white and goes to yellow, orange, red, etc, as it gets smaller. Would give a fading effect I think.

My concern is how it ties into the rest of the code. There may be some UI for running a java app out there without a browser, and I'd be willing to learn enough java to create the system if it was agreed that we would use it (I currently know zero java, so somebody who does, go for it!). If we get an official yes from programmers that it could be used, I can continue. The current design is quick and easy to add items into it. Takes maybe 1 minute to add a graphic and text. If I used javascript instead of frames, I could do it all with just 1 or 2 html files (and all the pics of course). The current version uses 2 html files per item, so that would be big when done.

#124 mamutas

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Posted 10 May 2003 - 10:04 PM

In order to use Java on the system, you must have a JVM installed.
That could be a standalone JVM on your disk or a plugin for the internet browser (and this is what renders your Java applet).

I do not think that we are going to install JVM on the system. But I am not sure whether we are going to use browser in the game. I say we do not do this just for this applet. If there are some other uses, then we might consider the usage of the applet as well.

Anyway, I wouldn't mix Java with any other programming languages unles there is another way around.

BTW, you can probably get an applet viewer from http://java.sun.com (I have done that a long time ago, so I am not sure now).
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#125 Breunor

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Posted 10 May 2003 - 10:53 PM

Enhydra.org has an opensource java server/applet that could be used to create that applet, but I think it could be done with html as well. Lots of style sheets, probably some javascripting for the motion. I added in an animated model under plasma weapons, the alien blaster. You should be able to view it with a quick time plugin. It loops the video and sizes it to the frame it's in. File size is 400kb for that, so slow connections be forewarned...

There's been lots of talk about XML for this project. The Enhydra program can create the applet from XML source, pulling info from a database... Sounds exactly like what the X-Net is to me. We just add/remove data from the database, and the applet runs what it's given. Requires somebody to be able to use Enhydra of course... I downloaded it, but the documentation is a bit lacking for me to even install it. And then there's the fact I have no clue regarding java. So it would be an ongoing work in progress while I learn that. I'm working on a simpler web page using pure html instead of the applet, it will lose the animated effect but hopefully will still look nice. I should have something in a few days.

The final question for all this is: am I spinning my wheels if it's a given that a web page in any format will not be used? How does XML tie into things here? I like playing with this stuff, but I don't want to waste my time if there's little to no chance of it being considered or used.

#126 mikker

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Posted 11 May 2003 - 07:32 AM

I've choped the end of it......does it look better???

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#127 Cubik

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Posted 11 May 2003 - 08:17 AM

Very nice, now just put some sort of fire mechanism on it (i.e trigger), and call it a day.

#128 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 11 May 2003 - 10:38 AM

yep - that looks chunkier and more solid for being shorter.

Nice one..

#129 Deimos

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Posted 11 May 2003 - 10:52 AM

I've choped the end of it......does it look better???

I like it, it looks familiar yet original. I think it'd make a good heavy laser.

Cubik, the firing mechanism could well be on the top handhold. Heavy calibre weaponry doesn't always have a traditional pistol grip, trigger mechanism. I'm thinking along the lines of the design of the MG in aliens and the Law disposable rocket and so on.

#130 mamutas

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Posted 11 May 2003 - 10:59 AM

The final question for all this is: am I spinning my wheels if it's a given that a web page in any format will not be used? How does XML tie into things here? I like playing with this stuff, but I don't want to waste my time if there's little to no chance of it being considered or used.

I am still catching up with stuff, but as far as I see there were no talks about tying in any web page support directly in the game. As a coder I can state that this will be quite a challenge to do as well.

Regarding XML, then it will be used as data holder, where we would have its structure well defined. The game will read it and render it, but I am sure we would need to write the renderer ourselves.

That is must my thoughts, as I am still not quite sure about big code architecture picture. Consult with senior team on that, please.
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#131 Cubik

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Posted 11 May 2003 - 10:59 AM

Hence the I.e.

#132 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 11 May 2003 - 11:32 AM

The final question for all this is: am I spinning my wheels if it's a given that a web page in any format will not be used? How does XML tie into things here? I like playing with this stuff, but I don't want to waste my time if there's little to no chance of it being considered or used.

I am still catching up with stuff, but as far as I see there were no talks about tying in any web page support directly in the game. As a coder I can state that this will be quite a challenge to do as well.

Regarding XML, then it will be used as data holder, where we would have its structure well defined. The game will read it and render it, but I am sure we would need to write the renderer ourselves.

That is must my thoughts, as I am still not quite sure about big code architecture picture. Consult with senior team on that, please.

XML or something similar works for me because I'd prefer to make panels and dialogue boxes out of smaller chunks rather than whole panels as a single graphic which is immensly inefficient.

Partly this is because small textures can be used across a whole range of panels. ie Panel_Top_Right_Corner could be the same on every panel.
and partly because some small textures may be stretched, a 32 x 32 Panel_Bottom_Bar graphic could be stretched to an arbitrary width.

This makes for a very efficient screen layout, less wasted space on the video card, more space for pretty textures on geoscape, base bits and battlescape.

Really we are looking for an easy way of laying out panels made out of grid chunks, preferably in some sort of free editor, whit an output that we can read into our UI renderer.

Any ideas anyone?

#133 Breunor

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Posted 11 May 2003 - 12:02 PM

Sorry about posting off topic info here, I'll ask further questions in another forum regarding the XML stuff.

That heavy laser looks very good Mikker. I'll update the asset list screenshot with it.

For anybody who's wondering what's being done, I've compiled an asset list of art items being worked on so far. I doubt this is an accurate list, but some people have PM'd me with what they're working on, and I've pulled screenshots from where I could. I'll try to sticky post this list in the appropriate spots as well. The list can be found here.

If you're working on something that someone else is also working on, let me know. I'll put both of you down. If you have updated screenshots for work-in-progress, please let me know. If I'm missing things, let me know about that as well. If you've already posted a screenshot somewhere for a listed item, please let me know where to find it, like 'page 3 of the model concepts thread'.

Thanks!

#134 tzuchan

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Posted 12 May 2003 - 01:40 AM

Mikker -
Just my opinion here:
That heavy laser looks cool, but the positioning of the handle(Handles?) looks clunky...
How is it supposed to be held? will there be a strap or something? I think you need another handle towards the rear...
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#135 mikker

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Posted 12 May 2003 - 06:48 AM

in reply to tzuchan:

yeah, i know. i just didn't want to do changes to it, before i know if i were gonna work with it.

but now i know you like it :D i'll start on that now.

polys are 562.

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#136 Breunor

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Posted 12 May 2003 - 07:17 AM

Actually, the handles look fine IMO. The heavy weapons like mikker's and autocannon, et cetera could use a waldo harness to support the weapon, then the soldier just holds it from the top. Gives the impression that it's a heavy weapon to carry around, too heavy to just hold in your hands.

#137 mikker

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Posted 12 May 2003 - 07:21 AM

waldo harness????
another handle...i can say i really like it.

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#138 Breunor

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Posted 12 May 2003 - 07:45 AM

Waldo harness: about halfway down page 2 of your thread 'more work needed'. It's like a support belt/harness that goes around your waist, support arms come off it and attach to the weapon from the side. You hold it at waist level, helps with recoil and weight. It was used in Alien 2, Vasquez used it with the autocannon weapon she had.

Here's a view of her weapon from the user's perspective. The waldo part is sticking out to the left, and would snap into the belt harness.

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#139 Breunor

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Posted 12 May 2003 - 07:47 AM

Based off that pick, why not try some handles like those, sort of lke bicycle handles? It might save on polys too, I don't know. Only one's needed for the trigger, the other is just for control of the weapon.

#140 mikker

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Posted 12 May 2003 - 08:28 AM

ok. i'll try the harness...

hmmm..bicycle handles...do you mean the hand breaks?

Edited by mikker, 12 May 2003 - 08:33 AM.

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#141 Breunor

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Posted 12 May 2003 - 09:47 AM

Similar to the pick above, look like motorcycle handles I guess.

#142 Anglachel

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Posted 14 May 2003 - 11:45 AM

here's a quick scribble.

Just a suggestion, feel free to tell me to bog off if ya want.

This one looks pretty nice, maybe with smaller ? horns??? (dont know the word in english for that)...

And can you post different view renders, to see it as a whole?

Greetings
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Here is an idea I think will help with an all around view of the object.
This will be an example.

I will post a picture of a final project like this and post a link where you can see a turntable animation on the web. It is just a bunch of jpgs flashed in order.
Mars
If the link doesn't work, type it in. Also let me know if there is a problem with the page, I keep getting an error, but it doesn't stop the animation.

Dial up beware, may take 2-3 minutes (or more I didn't watch the clock). If this idea is no good let me know so I don't waste time. I will ONLY do this for what I would consider a final product.

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#143 red knight

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Posted 14 May 2003 - 03:01 PM

Dont worry too much, a front render, a left render and a perspective one is enough....

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#144 Anglachel

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Posted 14 May 2003 - 08:19 PM

K, if that is all you need. I should have something for the final look of the plasma rifle around friday or monday.

#145 mikker

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Posted 15 May 2003 - 10:12 AM

*ehem*is this some sort of a weldo harness?

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Because if it is just alot of belts, it would be easy...

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#146 Breunor

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Posted 15 May 2003 - 11:25 AM

This page has several picks of Vasquez's gun from Aliens. The seperate unit, which some have referred to as a Waldo unit, is just a support arm that attached to the weapon and your armor/support belt. It's just a shock absorber and universal joint in one. You can use a similar design, or create something else that looks like it would do the same thing (Or not make one at all, it's just an idea). It's not that the weapon is so heavy it needs it, but that the recoil is so nasty. Perhaps some pics of a steady cam harness would also work for inspiration?

#147 Deimos

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Posted 15 May 2003 - 12:33 PM

If the pages Bruenor linked aren't any help, a Waldo unit is basically a military version of a steadycam mount use in film making.

#148 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 15 May 2003 - 02:26 PM

Mikkers image is a "real" waldo unit, at least a waldo control unit. The term comes from a short story about a disabled guy (Waldo and magic inc. by Robert Heinlein)

"Afflicted with myasthenia gravis from earliest childhood, Waldo lacks the muscular strength to walk or lift things with his arms. By living in the weightlessness of space he is able to move freely. His primary invention is a system of remote-controlled mechanical hands which the world has nicknamed "waldoes."

The term is also used for the remote hands used in nuclear power stations I believe.

Just so ya know.

#149 mikker

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Posted 16 May 2003 - 08:31 AM

Hmmm...I will see what i can do....but it looks complicating...



I still don't get the idea of it.....its a shock absorber? It has to be fastened to the belt? I don't like making stuff to attach on invincible persons.

It is a heavy laser. It does not have Auto. We could also just say, that laser beams does not create recoil (energy is not a solid object, just some sort of heat source).

Edited by mikker, 16 May 2003 - 08:40 AM.

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#150 Breunor

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Posted 16 May 2003 - 08:54 AM

I agree about the recoil, the waldo concept was more for the auto cannon and heavy cannon models. You wouldn't need to make anything fancy for the person, just a generic belt, that can be adjusted later to fit the soldier models. Again, this is just a suggestion, so if you don't like, no problem. If you do want to make it, then just make what would look like two hydraulic pistons connected together, with one connected to the weapon somewhere along the side, the other would connect to the belt loop or armor hard point later on. A generic version of what Vasquez used would be the simplest design, but again it's not really necessary, especially for a laser weapon, like you said.