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#51 gangsta

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Posted 27 January 2003 - 11:04 PM

no I'm talking about all of us. :) Just about everyone here will let you know when they want you to change something. Really it is constructive :) and what should go on here in order to make a great product.
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#52 gangsta

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Posted 28 January 2003 - 01:33 AM

Btw Smowza are you an artist? :) You did a good job on the geoscope.
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#53 Fatal_Error

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Posted 28 January 2003 - 05:02 AM

:erm: yeah this topic is really constructive, but only one prob....half of the time on the second page of this topic i did not understand which geoscape look people are reffering to. therefo i suggest people add the lil bit of info that describes what geoscape they r reffering to or we add codes to different images :D and people use these...

ok maybe im just a smart donkey but i really waz confuzed :huh?:
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#54 Deimos

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Posted 28 January 2003 - 08:30 AM

Btw Smowza are you an artist? :)  You did a good job on the geoscope.

Not to put smowza down but it's dead easy to change colours on stuff.

Added note to Smowza: I hadn't seen your textures as well as was pointed out to me further down. Sorry. Shouldn't be posting here and working on the geo and my work artwork too. :blink: Get in touch and we'll share resources. :D

#55 Deimos

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Posted 28 January 2003 - 10:26 AM

As you know (or maybe you don't) Fatal Error and I have been collaborting on the new geoscape. Changes have been made and though this isn't the final release version, we thought you guys should see this.

The earth pic used is from Nasa's site and isn't the one that's going to be used (hence the cloud formations).

I was just looking to see what a zoomed earth would look like with the control panel and well see for yourselves.

#56 Fatal_Error

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Posted 28 January 2003 - 10:52 AM

ok this is the "wannabe final" geoscape :D

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#57 LordT

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Posted 28 January 2003 - 11:19 AM

ok this is the "wannabe final" geoscape :D

Yellow time control text? i dont know....
And how about having some numbers along the steps of the timebar, like 2x 4x 8x 16x or such?
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#58 gangsta

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Posted 28 January 2003 - 12:37 PM

Try the color scheme smowza used.
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#59 Fatal_Error

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Posted 28 January 2003 - 12:39 PM

And how about having some numbers along the steps of the timebar, like 2x 4x 8x 16x or such?

and that would help the gamer in what way? afterall when u use x, 2x, 4x, 8x then what would the x be ...5sec? well it just wount work imo

to gangsta: the red did NOT work! it was either too obnoxious or didnt have enuff contrast to be clearly visible :( ...but at least i tried right? :D
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#60 Smowza

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Posted 28 January 2003 - 12:39 PM

I couldnt resist making just one more...... :chicken:
hmmm lets call this Geoscape 'smowzascape'....... :chicken:

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#61 Fatal_Error

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Posted 28 January 2003 - 01:12 PM

ok just one mo thing to say: look the latest gui posted by me in full screen if u can (winxp users: 1. turn your res to 800*600 2.use xp internal image viewers slideshow button). this time even i (not that im a god or something but usually im most critical about my own creations) was stunned though as some mentioned time control doesnt have good colors yet ...the txt at least.

to smowza: you know u could contact me via icq eg and ill be happy to share my raw files with u => better result from u. right now u aint even using the latest design or maybe u dont like the latest?
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#62 Smowza

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Posted 28 January 2003 - 01:41 PM

dont get me wrong... i love the latest design you've shown.... i've tried my best to change the look of yours (not that they arnt good or anything :D ) with the latest designs it's difficult to edit them with the way the colours are etc.. so the raw files would be very nice indeed... i'll have to activate my icq account again LOL :chicken:

#63 Fatal_Error

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Posted 28 January 2003 - 05:32 PM

dont get me wrong... i love the latest design you've shown.... i've tried my best to change the look of yours (not that they arnt good or anything  :D  ) with the latest designs it's difficult to edit them with the way the colours are etc.. so the raw files would be very nice indeed...  i'll have to activate my icq account again LOL    :chicken:

:erm: ....it's not like im a pro or anything so dont worry i wont cry if people dont like what ive done :D afterall this is an opensource project and everybody should be allowed to say what they think...i think its called "freedom of speech" though it hardly ever is accomplished in real life :( ...imo at least

fun fact:
so far i have only worked as a programmer , but after this project maybe ill try designers career :eek:
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#64 Xcen

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Posted 28 January 2003 - 07:41 PM

I really like what have been done so far for the geoscape interface...

Fatal, Deimos, Smowza... you guys have good ideas and they get even better when blended together :)

Don't hesitate to try whatever you have in mind... this is kinda like a brainstorm.

Deimos... I just want to say that Smowza didn't only change the colors, he added some cool metalic textures...

My opinion is:

I like blue better than green
I like the metalic texture smowza did but prefer the gray color that was used in Fatal's design...

Deimos... what you started for the "night" part of the geoscape is a damn good idea, hope to see more of this (oh and the clouds on the close up just look amazing)

One last point, I would cut down the transparency on the menus cause it's interfering with the zoomed geoscape..


Good work!


Edit: d'oh! that was the nasa picture :) well, te clouds are really nice nonetheless... perhaps it could even be an element of gameplay... ?? We'll see.
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#65 Deimos

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Posted 28 January 2003 - 10:44 PM

Deimos... I just want to say that Smowza didn't only change the colors, he added some cool metalic textures...

My opinion is:

I like blue better than green

I like the metalic texture smowza did but prefer the gray color that was used in Fatal's design...

Deimos... what you started for the "night" part of the geoscape is a damn good idea, hope to see more of this (oh and the clouds on the close up just look amazing)

One last point, I would cut down the transparency on the menus cause it's interfering with the zoomed geoscape..


Good work!


Edit: d'oh! that was the nasa picture :) well, te clouds are really nice nonetheless... perhaps it could even be an element of gameplay... ?? We'll see.

Yeah I saw that today, sorry Smowza. Get in touch and I can give you access to the raw files too. :)

You haven't modded your caes with bloo LED's and a cathode have you by any chance :D

The blue is nicer to look at however as Gangsta pointed out it isn't something that would be good for longterm gameplay as the blue will kind of fade and be less easy to read from. Especially when the geo is zoomed up close like above. It has to contrast what is in the world.

The transparancy effect actually isn't. The control panel is actually solid. It's the 'tv' display that has every other line missing. I think just putting a black background just round the 'tv' bit will fix that right up.

The nasa pic isn't a gameplay thing (unless the programmers have a random cloud generator). I wanted to see what the control panel looked like zoomed in and the globe used in the other pics didn't look good zoomed in so I used another pic as a quick reference. Still it would be nice to have clouds in wouldn't it :)

#66 red knight

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Posted 28 January 2003 - 11:13 PM

The nasa pic isn't a gameplay thing (unless the programmers have a random cloud generator). I wanted to see what the control panel looked like zoomed in and the globe used in the other pics didn't look good zoomed in so I used another pic as a quick reference. Still it would be nice to have clouds in wouldn't it :)

Maybe, but as i told somewhere else if a graphics programmer comes by and have a Card with Pixel Shaders then be my guest... i cannot do it, i dont have a video card with Pixel Shaders (at least i dont know another way to do that kind of effect without resorting to animated textures and think it would look pretty bad in that way, which are computationally expensive... at least all the methods i heard, anyone correct me if im wrong), anyway im having a very hard time trying to create the same bump mapping effect without NVidia Register Combiners (it is quite difficult, its more or like a black art, i cannot find any good doc on the issue) to make it work in Radeon Class video cards...

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#67 abstract

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Posted 28 January 2003 - 11:30 PM

It's a nice interface but i'd have to say it's lacking some Sci-fi apeal. Here are a few samples of background pic's that a script i wrote pumps out, it will generate a unique one for any # you give it. different nebulae, color scheme, # of stars, you name it.

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#68 abstract

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Posted 28 January 2003 - 11:33 PM

here's another one

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#69 abstract

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Posted 28 January 2003 - 11:36 PM

and another

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#70 abstract

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Posted 28 January 2003 - 11:50 PM

forgive the crappy jpeg compression, it removes some of the smallest(1 pixel) stars

#71 gangsta

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Posted 29 January 2003 - 01:26 AM

that is all nice but we're in Sol so that would be unrealistic.. although a feature might worth having in the game for a version past 1.0 for other worlds. Anyway I like Fatals last look and would like to see it with Snowsa first post color scheem with the darkblue dispaly and cyan letters and buttons.
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#72 Fatal_Error

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Posted 29 January 2003 - 04:29 AM

that is all nice but we're in Sol so that would be unrealistic.. although a feature might worth having in the game for a version past 1.0 for other worlds.  Anyway I like Fatals last look and would like to see it with Snowsa first post color scheem with the darkblue dispaly and cyan letters and buttons.

to gangsta: before i do anything plz check both designs in full screen mode if u can and then tell me that i should change the colors :sorry:
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#73 abstract

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Posted 29 January 2003 - 11:23 AM

Please bare in mind that this is not a realistic game. It's science fiction : )

#74 Deimos

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Posted 29 January 2003 - 11:24 AM

I've been looking through some of my old client work and reference material and thinking about this shiny metalised texture on the control panel. Though it looks impressive now, it won't in a few week of gameplay.

I know I'm in a minority on this but IMO it doesn't work, simply because it draws attention to itself. Any UI worth its salt will be minimalistic and unobtrusive and won't get in the way of what the user is doing. I'm sorry to say that the flashy 'in your face' textures are going to grind away and be very tiring to look at after a few hours of gameplay.

It's like the flashy packaging some manufacturers put over their product to catch the buyers eye, which in the case of the Smowza's geoscape it certainly has. But this isn't an impulse buy product. It's something that the player of the game is going to spend a long time looking at and I don't think it's going to help the longevity of the game to have bright shiny things in the players face all the time, especially when the game is as relatively slow paced as Xcom is.

I feel that subtlety is the flavour of the game UI's everywhere. For some references check out any first person shooter. IE Unreal Tournament, Half life and Quake 2&3. The info is there to see but doesn't get in the way of the game. Same for RTS games like starcraft and warcraft. Closer to home the new geoscape from the UFO:AM is very nice http://www.ufo-after...aftermath22.jpg

I specifically like the transparancy of the pop up screens so you can still see what is going on behind the current info. A perfect example of the UI not getting in the way of the gameplay.

http://www.ufo-after...ategicpart1.jpg

A quick glance at another scene and the most obvious thing other than the globe is the rotation controls.

This is what I think we want to be aiming for, a simple unobtrusive UI that doesn't scream look at me.

One of the best lessons I was taught is the glance test. Once the project is nearing it's end close your eyes for 2-3 seconds and clear your mind of the images. Then open your eyes and the first thing that catches your attention has to be changed to fit in with the rest of the design. In this case we need to stick with a colour pallette that matches or compliments the globe, blues and greens. Shiny silver just glares too much after looking at it for any length of time.

I don't mean to upset anyone by what I've said so feel free to ignore me as it's just my take on the project. :D

PS in Fatal Error's geo look at the starfield in the background. There are constellations if you look for them. Just one of tiny details that I like to see in great games. Little touches, that don't need to be there but are. This is one of the things Fatal and myself had been working on.

#75 Xcen

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Posted 29 January 2003 - 11:25 AM

The nebulaes look really cool! I agree with Abstract with not paying attention to realistic details like this... let us not forget that the original game had weird impossible purple nebulaes in the geoscape background... as I said earlier, we can always pull something off story-wise... let's not restrict ourselves creatively (at least that' my opinion)

what I mean is that, nebulaes are gas formations right? Well maybe theses are caused by the alien forces for a reason or another... this could even go in ufopaedia and become a research element (new research: Weird nebulas in the geoscape lol) ok I'm probably getting carried away but, still, we can twist any bit of nonsense in reality with a good writter...

as for the cloud... maybe we could start with something less realistic, similar to what kind of technology they use for the weather channel or something...

this way it looks crappy but remains familiar so it's less annoying...

just and idea...
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#76 Deimos

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Posted 29 January 2003 - 11:28 AM

as for the cloud... maybe we could start with something less realistic, similar to what kind of technology they use for the weather channel or something...

I think the cloud is gonna be too difficult to program in without looking sh*te.

#77 Xcen

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Posted 29 January 2003 - 11:37 AM

I edited my post (again) :P

Oh and isn't aftermath the new name for freedom ridge?
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#78 Fatal_Error

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Posted 29 January 2003 - 11:52 AM

I edited my post (again) :P

Oh and isn't aftermath the new name for freedom ridge?

nope but unfortunately i dont remember the other games name though u may find it on the net ...believe me its out there :D
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#79 LordT

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Posted 29 January 2003 - 01:10 PM

I edited my post (again) :P

Oh and isn't aftermath the new name for freedom ridge?

Think its the dreamland chronicles
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#80 Maverick

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Posted 29 January 2003 - 01:47 PM

Is that game anything like this one?

Ok, well, I'm no expert on UI. I like the metal, but I'm open to whatever looks cool.

#81 Xcen

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Posted 29 January 2003 - 01:49 PM

Yeah the original title was Dreamland Chronicles: Freedom Ridge

:alienmad:
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#82 gangsta

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Posted 29 January 2003 - 01:49 PM

I'm sorry but part of what makes X-Com cool to me is what seems to be realism (even though I know I'm being fooled). Anyway with that Sci-Fi argument you might as well put a death star into the background. I don't think it flys because we know what Sol looks like and even in a Sci-Fi movie they wouldn't make Sol not look like Sol.
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#83 gangsta

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Posted 29 January 2003 - 01:52 PM

I've been looking through some of my old client work and reference material and thinking about this shiny metalised texture on the control panel. Though it looks impressive now, it won't in a few week of gameplay.

I know I'm in a minority on this but IMO it doesn't work, simply because it draws attention to itself. Any UI worth its salt will be minimalistic and unobtrusive and won't get in the way of what the user is doing.  I'm sorry to say that the flashy 'in your face' textures are going to grind away and be very tiring to look at after a few hours of gameplay.

It's like the flashy packaging some manufacturers put over their product to catch the buyers eye, which in the case of the Smowza's geoscape it certainly has. But this isn't an impulse buy product. It's something that the player of the game is going to spend a long time looking at and I don't think it's going to help the longevity of the game to have bright shiny things in the players face all the time, especially when the game is as relatively slow paced as Xcom is.

I feel that subtlety is the flavour of the game UI's everywhere. For some references check out any first person shooter. IE Unreal Tournament, Half life and Quake 2&3. The info is there to see but doesn't get in the way of the game. Same for RTS games like starcraft and warcraft. Closer to home the new geoscape from the UFO:AM is very nice http://www.ufo-after...aftermath22.jpg

I specifically like the transparancy of the pop up screens so you can still see what is going on behind the current info. A perfect example of the UI not getting in the way of the gameplay.

http://www.ufo-after...ategicpart1.jpg

A quick glance at another scene and the most obvious thing other than the globe is the rotation controls.

This is what I think we want to be aiming for, a simple unobtrusive UI that doesn't scream look at me.

One of the best lessons I was taught is the glance test. Once the project is nearing it's end close your eyes for 2-3 seconds and clear your mind of the images. Then open your eyes and the first thing that catches your attention has to be changed to fit in with the rest of the design. In this case we need to stick with a colour pallette that matches or compliments the globe, blues and greens. Shiny silver just glares too much after looking at it for any length of time.

I don't mean to upset anyone by what I've said so feel free to ignore me as it's just my take on the project. :D

PS in Fatal Error's geo look at the starfield in the background. There are constellations if you look for them. Just one of tiny details that I like to see in great games. Little touches, that don't need to be there but are. This is one of the things Fatal and myself had been working on.

honestly I don't find the aftermath geoscope impressive or well designed.
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#84 LordT

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Posted 29 January 2003 - 02:32 PM

I'm sorry but part of what makes X-Com cool to me is what seems to be realism (even though I know I'm being fooled). Anyway with that Sci-Fi argument you might as well put a death star into the background.  I don't think it flys because we know what Sol looks like and even in a Sci-Fi movie they wouldn't make Sol not look like Sol.

You know that "sol" means "sun" in swedish? :)
Didn't one of [person here]'s first background with the moon look like the death-star?
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#85 Xcen

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Posted 29 January 2003 - 02:50 PM

Gangsta... I just restarted Xcom to be sure but, as I said, there are purple nebulas and errr stuff in the geoscape background of the original xcom ;P
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#86 abstract

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Posted 29 January 2003 - 03:17 PM

it was just a brainstorming suggestion, i'm not going to be heartbroken if it doesnt get implemented, it's just more pleasing to the eye i think, it helps to better frame the earth and the interface as a whole looks less boring.

#87 Fatal_Error

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Posted 30 January 2003 - 01:31 PM

ok my last image post to this forum ...no worries im na going anywhere just moving the images outta here :D anyway ... you aksed for blue and 3D well here ya go!!!

oh and if anyone comes bitching that the colors are waaay too DARK then ill bash your head in with this brick *shows everybody a big red brick* :devilsmile:

lighter colors just draw too much attention to 'emselfes :sorry:

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#88 LordT

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Posted 30 January 2003 - 01:54 PM

I really think this is like taking two steps back... I would stick to your first drafts and make them better.
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#89 gangsta

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Posted 30 January 2003 - 02:23 PM

I have to agree with lordT although your buttons look cool and so does the scroll thing.
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#90 LordT

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Posted 30 January 2003 - 02:25 PM

So i'll explain what i mean...

The one at the top of the thread had its components "seperated" from each other while this one the other hand, removes the empty space between buttons and such and crams it up on a panel like the original xcom.
Although the 3d looks KINDA good i think the backgroundpanel like it looks in the latest should be removed.
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#91 red knight

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Posted 30 January 2003 - 02:49 PM

I really think this is like taking two steps back... I would stick to your first drafts and make them better.

I think this is the best one, because if solves the empty space problem and the geoscape looking through the UI problem (the one i think Deimos showed)... now we have a solid panel with a lot of non distracting details on the back (if you didnt notice it, take a serious look to it)...

Another problem it solves is the integration of the interface in the bases layout... mixing floating with solid UI wont look good. now its all solid.

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#92 LordT

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Posted 30 January 2003 - 03:05 PM

If the base is going to be in an isometric view why not use a floating UI there too?
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#93 gangsta

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Posted 30 January 2003 - 03:11 PM

I still like fatal previous one better. The empty space there was wasn't bad because it was just between the buttons. The thing with this one is each thing doesn't stand out and you can't find what you're looking for as fast IMO.
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#94 red knight

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Posted 30 January 2003 - 03:22 PM

If the base is going to be in an isometric view why not use a floating UI there too?

Ok, instead of going ahead in either of both directions, why dont you start doing the base layout as a proof of concept to be really sure.. remember that all is a big UI so every design change in one must be done in the other... Then we decide... What do you think?

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#95 LordT

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Posted 30 January 2003 - 03:25 PM

Want me to do the base layout??
Hey it was just a thought, dont go kill me for it...
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#96 gangsta

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Posted 30 January 2003 - 03:38 PM

he just wants a proof of concept ;)
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#97 red knight

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Posted 30 January 2003 - 03:42 PM

Want me to do the base layout??
Hey it was just a thought, dont go kill me for it...

NO, the artist department should check those because theres 2 different styles... so whats better than implement both and then decide... it was not for you... :devillaugh:

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#98 Smowza

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Posted 30 January 2003 - 05:39 PM

just to lets you guys know.. i wont be contributing for a few days due to a family issue. I'll get back on track soon no doubt.... catch ya later

#99 Deimos

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Posted 31 January 2003 - 04:03 AM

I really think this is like taking two steps back... I would stick to your first drafts and make them better.

I think this is the best one, because if solves the empty space problem and the geoscape looking through the UI problem (the one i think Deimos showed)... now we have a solid panel with a lot of non distracting details on the back (if you didnt notice it, take a serious look to it)...

Another problem it solves is the integration of the interface in the bases layout... mixing floating with solid UI wont look good. now its all solid.

Greeting
Red Knight

I agree with you in principle. I do like this one a lot but I prefer the other becasue of its clean look.

The empty space look on my zoom in pic was becasue I'd altered the texturing on the buttons which had caused them to be semi transparent at the edges which looked fine when the earth was zoomed out but casued the semi-see through effect in close.

With Fatal's texture you don't get the empty space feeling.

On the intergration issue. Is it not possible just to have the UI panel on top of an alpha channel then there can be a floating UI in all the screens?

#100 LordT

LordT

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Posted 31 January 2003 - 07:51 AM

[quote name='red knight' date='Jan 30 2003, 09:42 PM'][quote name='LordT' date='Jan 30 2003, 05:25 PM']Want me to do the base layout??
Hey it was just a thought, dont go kill me for it...[/quote]
NO, the artist department should check those because theres 2 different styles... so whats better than implement both and then decide... it was not for you... :devillaugh:

Greetings
Red Knight[/quote]
Ok, felt like you were talking to me though...[quote] why dont you start doing the base layout as a proof [/qoute]
You can seem threatening at times though... (nothing personal) :P
Take your time and submit a name to the Names Database.

Resistance is futile! (if < 1 ohm)