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Flaws In Origional Story


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#1 Kamikazee

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Posted 07 March 2004 - 08:56 AM

After writing a couple of alternative stories for V1+ and looking at different projects i have noticed many flaws with the xcom story. especially the first 2-3. (x-com 4 avoided any major storyline so...)

firstly, if the aliens are so wonderfully powerful and smart why do they gradually attack. why not attack all at once and get it over with? there are solutions to this that people have suggested though.

secondly, we depend heavily on electronics. Military electronics can and probably are magnetically shielded. but as for everything else such as microwaves and PCs, well they aren't. couldn't the aliens use an EMp or are they too dumb for that?

Aliens have nukes (blaster bomb), why not use them? it would save time and effort.

going back to the second one, they could use computer viruses.

If they are so powerful why do they show any intrest in us at all?

I am sure these things could be explained but in the origional they weren't. I just find it strange that they'd rather be shot by hippies with rifles than just nuke us from the comfort of their alien sofas.

#2 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 07 March 2004 - 09:19 AM

The idea is that the aliens don't want to destroy humanity, they want to enslave us. That is why they don't nuke us from orbit.

The aliens may not have the forces needed to completely invade earth in one strike. Thus, the gradual plan is the only one that may work for them.

The aliens may enjoy killing civilians.

The aliens may not have discovered EMP, or they may not have the ability to use such a weapon. Or they may perfer other weapons.
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#3 mikker

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Posted 07 March 2004 - 09:21 AM

besides, the game wouldn't have been fun if they killed us at the start of the game :P

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#4 centurion

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Posted 07 March 2004 - 10:25 AM

How do you know, Mikker? Ever played Planescape: Torment? :devilburn:

Closer to the topic: Earth may not be the only target for the aliens. They just put a kind of a recon unit here, with limited Elerium resources, so they try not to use it all up in one go via streamlining the production of silver footballs. And I wouldn't be sure that these pesky hippy humans mean such a big deal to them until you manage to cripple their bases, so it would be logical to assume that they first try to do the whole thing "peacefully", via the governments, and only gradually realize that that's not working, so they have to commit valuable Elerium to chasing X-Com.

To Apocalypse, it may be even simpler (following thought harvested from the net). Did you ever wonder why is it that in the alien buildings there's nothing, hmm, decorative, like pot plants, lampposts or :master: Golden Toilets :master: ? Imagine that you have to live in such an environment all your life; seems like pretty bleak existence for me. So, they put together their best, and came up with a dimension gate generator that brought them into a new world, full of colourful and otherwise stimulus-rich objects. Well, the only problem is, that we welcomed them by trying to destroy their crafts that got through, so they grew mad: "We just tried to make friends with you, and you shoot us in response? Perish, pitiful humans!" And that's how the story begins ... :naughty:
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#5 Guest_Azrael_*

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Posted 07 March 2004 - 10:16 PM

At the beginning of the game, X-Com's not more than a bunch of weak soldiers armed with light weapons, very vulnerable to the aliens' attack. The aliens may have seen that Earth was being consumed by internal wars (like nowadays or... whenever in time) and that it was no match for them. Being technologically far more advanced than us, they arrogance kept them from throwing at us everything they got, they might have seen Earth as an easy conquest, when they realise of their mistake, X-Com's already a powerful Extraterrestrial Combat Unit, armed with their very same weapons and very efficient at what they've been doing for months, so by the time the aliens realise this, it's too late :happybanana: . I think that's the main reason why the aliens don't throw everything at Earth at the beginning of the game... and that it wouldn't be too fun to play if they killed all of us at the beginning of the game!, as Mikker pointed out.

#6 Kamikazee

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Posted 08 March 2004 - 10:01 AM

But the wonderful thing about X-com is the sense that your out gunned out smarted out everything which makes it so addictive and powerfully chilling. But when you realise these story flaws it kinda ruins the feel. :(
I dont see how the world could stand back and carry on with their lives while aliens reak havoc. Wouldn't it make sense that every one would take up arms against the aliens rather than 12 hippies in a decomissioned russian troop carrier.

I would think that the aliens having spacecraft and all would have encountered EMP before. When you consider all the magnetic fields in space and the fact there are probably millions of magnetic anomolies.
Also they would know about computer viruses seeming as they have supercomputers.

#7 Albino Crow

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Posted 08 March 2004 - 10:38 AM

Well, they're technologically more developed than we are, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are strategically, or even militaristically. For all we know, wherever they come from they could have been exposed to different elements (elerium) that just enabled them to develop such exotic technology. It doesn't have to be purely resulted from higher intelligence. They just do things differently, and being as different as they are, it gives them an upperhand against what we have.

They could be considered mere 'cosmic criminals'.

#8 Kamikazee

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Posted 08 March 2004 - 10:52 AM

This is a conspiracy! You obviously don't agree with me.

I agree that it would make sense that the aliens are not necacerraliy (sp?) god like but the first geam emakes them out to be. And it wouldn't be such a powerful game if they didn't, but why do they not use computer/biological viruses?

Maybe they are like the borg or something (ps i hate star trek), they gather Info and technology as well as biological specimins in order to achieve some strange twisted goal.

Or maybe (in the mutons case) they are a war like group that like to wage war with other species etc. So they fight on an equal plain to make it more fun.

#9 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 08 March 2004 - 01:50 PM

The aliens don't necessarily think like a human. It may not even come into their heads to use biological weapons.
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#10 centurion

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Posted 08 March 2004 - 02:01 PM

The aliens don't necessarily think like a human. It may not even come into their heads to use biological weapons.

So what the Brain says is true! They came as a humane (heh) species, to fight, if necessary, according to the laws of chivalry and maybe football! :whatwhat:
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#11 Kamikazee

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Posted 08 March 2004 - 03:37 PM

So your trying to tell me that aliens having mastered space travel have never encountered a cold?

Maybe they hunting us for sport? OMG theyve been plagued by reality TV too. You cant help but feel sorry for them.

#12 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 08 March 2004 - 04:09 PM

The aliens may have encountered a cold, but they may have never thought to use something like that as a weapon.
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#13 Kamikazee

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Posted 08 March 2004 - 04:19 PM

Well if suddam could think of it im sure several million blood thirsty aliens would think of it.

Just give up, you know im right.

#14 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 08 March 2004 - 04:29 PM

Shaddam is a human. Granted a deranged human, but he is still a human. We have no idea what an alien would think.

Anyway...
There is an idea floating around the CTD that the Achidnas err 'Spawn' are really an alien bioweapon.

Besides, they don't want to eradicate humanity. They want to enslave us.
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#15 Guest_Azrael_*

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Posted 08 March 2004 - 05:40 PM

Perhaps the aliens are resistant to biological viruses, so, never having encountered them, they have no idea. Or in the case they know about biological viruses (more likely), if they’re resistant, they may have no idea that they can be used as weapons, having had no opportunity to use them in the past. And about emp, imagine the aliens’ computers and technology is also somehow protected against emp, whether on purpose or because of the composition and construction of them, they also wouldn’t even think of them as weapons, rather than a scienctific fact.

#16 Robo Dojo 58

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Posted 08 March 2004 - 06:48 PM

Perhaps the aliens are resistant to biological viruses, so, never having encountered them, they have no idea.

Viruses just kill people. The spawn kills people, and reproduces at the same time. Much better, don't you think? :)

And about emp, imagine the aliens’ computers and technology is also somehow protected against emp, whether on purpose or because of the composition and construction of them, they also wouldn’t even think of them as weapons, rather than a scienctific fact

The aliens rely very heavily on PSI to do their work. Their PSI-computers are immune to EMP, because it doesn't work the same way.

Also, the aliens have been blasting X-Corps bases and entire cities with anti-PSI weapons. But, we don't have PSI computers, and are too dumb to be hurt by it, so you never see it in the game. At the worst, you might have a headache, and those PSI-headaches and hangovers are no match for the power of coffee! ^_^
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My first order of business: Homeless people make cheap rookies, and are great at opening UFO doors. Heck, they're so cheap, I'm going to replace all personel with them!
Secondly: This organisation takes too much money to run. Weapon shipments will come from Siberia from now on. Costly maintenance is to be cut on all facilities. That includes venting.
Thirdly: We have a new colonel. His name is Facehugger, he loves aliens, and I want you all to treat him with respect.
Lastly: I'll be in my condo on an undisclosed island, if you need me. Good day.

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#17 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 08 March 2004 - 06:50 PM

Or direct caffine injections... :devillaugh:
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#18 centurion

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Posted 09 March 2004 - 07:13 AM

With the only exception of terror missions, the aliens' action fit well into a pattern of not wanting to do the dirty job themselves: they just sneak around in UFOs that have great chances of going unnoticed even by XCom's lot of radars, doing their covert ops for the sole purpose of subverting the governments to serve them ("here, have 37 colourful beads, and we'll take that island over there in return...") so that they can get what they want (humans, cattle, you name it) without having to run the operation themselves. In this case it would be imperative to stay as unnoticed as possible, to leave the population ignorant and happy under their old rulers; hence bioweapons are out (no way of controlling their spread at least to a neighbourhood of deployment) and so is EMP (repetitive blackouts in probably densely populated area surely give rise to thinking). Just think about it, would you rather have to subjugate a tribe chieftain into giving you stuff till the end of time or have to kill the whole tribe yourself to collect their posessions once?

Terror missions provide great pression on the player though, and the most they fit into is some misunderstanding scenario, where the aliens think if they go to the most densely populated areas and shoot everyone, they may hit someone important, and this would contradict with their infiltration strategy.
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#19 Kamikazee

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Posted 09 March 2004 - 10:51 AM

Okay, centurion is the only one that has been able to sway my view. Altough i would like to mention that there are viruses that can (and also chemicals) paralyse a body for long periods of times (or permenantly), the aliens could have held the world to randsom eg. give us a cow or u dont get a cure.

But i understand how you see it. They want to control us while making us think we are controlling ourselves. The odd terror missions are to subdue the resistant governments who think they are strong enough to resist.

#20 Jonaleth Irenicus

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Posted 14 March 2004 - 05:50 PM

The aliens have "planted" us millions of years ago, now they are harvesting. I think this was explained in an UFOpedia entry.

They don't want to burn everything down, they don't want to destroy the world, they don't want to destroy our life style for that matter.

The only thing they want is for us to live as we normally do and "harvest" as many humans/animals as they want.

In their eyes X-Com is a little threat, even when armed with their own technology, because of the sheer numbers of aliens (explained in another UFOpeadia entry). Though most players do not play/feel that way, that ship that's going off to Mars is really the only hope. The aliens are getting what they want no matter how much resistance X-Com comes up with: tehre are just too many of them.

Sure, when you're playing the game, especially towards the end of it, it feels like you are crushing the aliens at every turn. But think of it this way: for every terror site you deal with, two/three happen that you can't see or don't know of.

Why is X-Com understaffed/underfunded: Because not everybody believes in X-Com. Let's face it, if aliens were out in the open, "kinda invading" us, or "harvesting" us, half of the world would say "DEATH TO ALIENS" while the other half would say "We should try to make peace with them and learn from their advanced technology and their form of culture and their history and blah blah blah".

I am in fact shocked (yes, really shocked) that X-Com gets funds from so many countries to begin with.

And the reason you get so few men at the beginning of the game: because there not that many UFO sightings at the beginning of the game. The "think of two/three terror sites you miss" thing happens toward the end of the game.
Passenger ship terror site, first turn, I open the door of my Triton, there is a Tasoth up on the next floor (his back is facing the screen so I don't know what weapon he has).

One of my guys fire at him, hit, he reaction fires with Thermal Shock Launcher. The whole crew stunned. Mission over.

#21 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 14 March 2004 - 06:01 PM

Wouldn't the governments tell you if there was a terror site?
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#22 Jonaleth Irenicus

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Posted 15 March 2004 - 02:05 PM

Not necessarily, no.

The thing is, I can think of A LOT of governments that would spontaneously pay for X-Com and at the same time give a certain number of their people to the aliens in return for technology. This is not like the thing that happens when a government totally withdraws from the X-Com project and says "We are supporting the aliens and don't care about the rest of the world", they just play on both ends (don't know if this is the right expression in English, but I think you get what I mean -this is what most government in the world try to do anyway, they try to play towards ALL ends in order not to get f*cked up at the end of the conflict).

It's like what my government did in the Iraq war, we said we would support USA all the way through the war but we slowed down the "democratic" process so much that we ended up helping them very little at all. This way we also ended up jacking up to the Iraq people (although they still don't like us at all).
Passenger ship terror site, first turn, I open the door of my Triton, there is a Tasoth up on the next floor (his back is facing the screen so I don't know what weapon he has).

One of my guys fire at him, hit, he reaction fires with Thermal Shock Launcher. The whole crew stunned. Mission over.

#23 Kamikazee

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Posted 16 March 2004 - 02:33 PM

hey Jon, watc the political stuff, mods are planning to crack down on it. I dont now how harshly but just to be safe. although nobody really cares, i dont, but all the same.

as for wot you are saying, why then if the aliens wish to reamain hidden from us do they not uses stealth tactics, (eg stealth ships, camoflauge on craft etc.)?

Ans in contradiction of the 'they might not know about that' arguement, wouldn't they have spies or somthing. Maybe not specifically to steal tech but to ensure pacts with governments?

#24 I AM ROBOT

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Posted 16 February 2005 - 02:45 PM

I agree with the face hugger, they wanted human booty to add to their "vast unkown empire"
Whats wrong with tring to enslave someone?. And what if they dont have sofas?
Maybe they hang from the roof. im just rambling now. oops.

After writing a couple of alternative stories for V1+ and looking at different projects i have noticed many flaws with the xcom story. especially the first 2-3. (x-com 4 avoided any major storyline so...)

firstly, if the aliens are so wonderfully powerful and smart why do they gradually attack. why not attack all at once and get it over with? there are solutions to this that people have suggested though.

secondly, we depend heavily on electronics. Military electronics can and probably are magnetically shielded. but as for everything else such as microwaves and PCs, well they aren't. couldn't the aliens use an EMp or are they too dumb for that?

Aliens have nukes (blaster bomb), why not use them? it would save time and effort.

going back to the second one, they could use computer viruses.

If they are so powerful why do they show any intrest in us at all?

I am sure these things could be explained but in the origional they weren't. I just find it strange that they'd rather be shot by hippies with rifles than just nuke us from the comfort of their alien sofas.

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#25 Ravenheart

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Posted 08 April 2005 - 12:43 PM

going back to the second one, they could use computer viruses.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Greetings.
To make computer virii they would have to known our systems. If i'm not wrong - which is, indeed, very probable - they don't have computers as we understand them, but 'only' those PSI-computers. So, ¿how would they make virii for our systems? To know our computers, they would need to learn to read in some earth's language and study them, perhaps learn a whole new branch of science (we are not sure if they understand electronics, right?). So it will mean aeons of researching just for crashing our windowns. Why make such an effort, if they crash anyway? :P
In your post you show some truly good points, but I think the one about sending computer virii is not a big one. BTW, this makes me think of 'independence day' movie. :laugh:

Edited by Ravenheart, 08 April 2005 - 12:44 PM.


#26 GARAK

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Posted 08 April 2005 - 02:27 PM

The do use viruses eventually. The destroy the atmosphere and kill most people. It says that when you lose.

#27 sir_schwick

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Posted 10 April 2005 - 05:35 PM

That ending never made sense to me. WHy go to the effort of silent infiltration just to nuke the planet?

#28 I AM ROBOT

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Posted 10 April 2005 - 07:58 PM

Style maybe?

Just make a big scene, typical stuff going on here! :beer:

#29 mikker

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 07:08 AM

Aliens does not think like us. Just as we wouldn't ever have thought about making alien building materials (which is supperior to whatever we once had), they wouldn't have though of using biological stuff.

Think of it: How did humanity get to know of it? By studying bacteria. With nukes, that comes with Einstein and Bohr making theories on how atoms work (and with E=MC^2, alby though that 'OMG this might make big boom' and sent it to the american president to get it away from Hitler). The aliens have, in most of their lifetime, been in war. They might never have wanted to go in depth in what things are made of. This rules out both nukes and bacteria. They might have had crystals containing xenium, and they used it. Later they found out other ways, which we don't know, to make them.

In the war thing, it must be remembered that most of their fighting is in space. Which rules out biological weaponry.

And, thankfully, aliens may not have nukes or emps in the first place.

Edited by mikker, 11 April 2005 - 07:10 AM.

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#30 sir_schwick

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Posted 12 April 2005 - 01:03 PM

That still does not answer why the aliens bother with the silent infiltration. If they had planned on using Xenium-based explosives to destroy Earth, why waste the man-power? Obviously they have some method of destroying resistant worlds, so why not use that first? Either they want Earth for a base, or make sure no one usese it as a base.

#31 sir_schwick

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 09:34 AM

Although they fought in space, the original UFOPedia mentioned the cell warfare that occured. A major initiative of the Sectoids and several other species was developing better genetic lines. This integrated the cow and human DNA that was collected during abductions. So obviously they would know about genetics and probably biological warfare.

As for computers, why disable computers when they could simply use them to monitor human activity? Maybe I have been playing Deus Ex too much recently, but would it really be that hard to imagine they used 'back door' viruses to extract military and other information from every computer on the planet. A few satellites could send the signal back to Mars in no time.

EMP weapons would be useful in a final campaign or for attacking military installations, but not panicking humans. Why destroy human electronic infrastructure when it can be your greatest monitoring tool?