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Infiltration. How Best To Stop It?


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#1 testarossa

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Posted 13 October 2005 - 07:07 PM

I'm sure that most know that a definate infiltration occurs when 2 battleships, 3 larges, and one small...(I think that is the count ^_^) happens to appear at the same time and land at the country in question. At the end of the month that this happens (and I'm fairly sure that it can only happen once in a month) the country, of course, has fallen under alien influence.

I am always able to beat the game before the aliens are able to infiltrate most countries. But my question to you all is, do any of you actually try to stop this event? If the ships land and you engage ALL of them, the country is still infiltrated! My guess is that you have to shoot down all of them, and I try to avoid engaging Battleships, but has anyone else done this? actually shooting down all of the ships in question? or if someone thinks differently about my theory I'd like to hear that too.

#2 NKF

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Posted 13 October 2005 - 10:22 PM

We've had discussions about this on this forum and the StrategyCore X-Com forum (previously known as the X-Com Tactical Command forum). Apparently, infiltration is still a bit of a mystery.

See, we've had multiple scenarios discussed, and all of them have resulted in different outcomes.

Scenario 1: UFOs are shot down before they even land.
Outcomes: No infiltration, or country is infiltrated.

Scenario 2: UFOs are shot down and those that land are dealt with via ground combat (or all of them via ground combat if you have enough troop transports).
Outcomes: No infltration, or country is infiltrated.

Scenario 3: No infiltrators detected at all for entire month - or no infiltrators spotted anywhere near the target country - and we're talking about having a scanning base with a Hyperwave Decoder smack in the middle of the target country
Outcome: Country is infiltrated (just to name an Example, the US)

It's a bit baffling, really. But until even more extensive investigations are done, the only thing you can do is to do your best and take out as many infiltrators, either in the air, or on the ground, as possible. I'd just shoot down the small fry and worry about with the battleships. The small wrecked ships can wait till later.

Don't worry about losing the game when lots of countries pull out. From extensive (and often excessive - which is a good thing) testing done by our resident data gatherer, Zombie, Russia can not defect.

So as long as you don't lose the game by running yourself into debt, you'll technically be able to play the game until you get fed up. Given that you manage to get a good score every month and keep your account in balance.

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#3 testarossa

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Posted 14 October 2005 - 12:33 AM

Haha I never knew that about Russia! i guess its too cold for aliens to infiltrate. :laughsmiley: .

I've beaten the game many times I'm not really worried about finishing it, but I just wanted to know if people had actually shot down all the ships, even the battleships, and then ground assualted and still resulted in an infiltration? Because I know that if you leave it alone it always (in my experience) results in an infiltration. There is not a case on the large scale infiltration landings where the country will not be affected is there? Dealing with the landed ships though does nothing in my case, I thought perhaps downing every last ship would do the trick, because when a ship is down it obviously can't carry out its mission. I thought of it like a terror ship, shoot it before it reaches it's goal and it's harmless.

Perhaps even flying over the territory in question triggers it? Because I'm not positive, and maybe you an answer this as well, but does a UFO merely flying over a zone trigger higher levels of activity in an area or is it only landed craft. Perhaps shooting the all the crafts down outside the territory would stop the infiltration as well. Though that would be extremely difficult!

#4 Zombie

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Posted 14 October 2005 - 12:55 AM

Haha I never knew that about Russia! i guess its too cold for aliens to infiltrate.† :laughsmiley: .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My suspicion is Russia can't be infiltrated because it spans, what, 6 different zones? No other country can boast this fact. ;)

I've beaten the game many times I'm not really worried about finishing it, but I just wanted to know if people had actually shot down all the ships, even the battleships, and then ground assualted and still resulted in an infiltration? Because I know that if you leave it alone it always (in my experience) results in an infiltration. There is not a case on the large scale infiltration landings where the country will not be affected is there? Dealing with the landed ships though does nothing in my case, I thought perhaps downing every last ship would do the trick, because when a ship is down it obviously can't carry out its mission. I thought of it like a terror ship, shoot it before it reaches it's goal and it's harmless.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you leave an infiltration fleet alone, there is a small chance nothing will happen. That's right, nothing. I've seen it before. However, your best chance of stopping an infiltration fleet is simply prevention: heavily patrol the suspect country/zone and shoot down all the small UFO infiltration scouts. Barring that, shooting down and visiting each craft in the fleet stands a much better chance of success than just leaving them alone.

Perhaps even flying over the territory in question triggers it? Because I'm not positive, and maybe you an answer this as well, but does a UFO merely flying over a zone trigger higher levels of activity in an area or is it only landed craft. Perhaps shooting the all the crafts down outside the territory would† stop the infiltration as well. Though that would be extremely difficult!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

UFO's flying over an area/country will trigger an increase in alien activity there. UFO's landing there will push the activity score up even more. :)

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#5 Mzuz

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Posted 14 October 2005 - 01:31 PM

Russia actually spans 11 time zones.
http://www.worldtime...ime-russia2.htm


anyway. As said shooting them all down does help. However, in a game I had about 4 months ago I ran into a problem. There was an invansion fleet that would hit the U.S. Now..I tried everything possible from shooting them all down, waiting till they landed and invanded, and also shooting some of them down and only assualting the battleship. Regardless of which way I tried the country was always infiltrated, and I had a score of about +1,500 at the end of the month. I would try to shoot them all down if you have a chance, but in my personal experience it doesn't seem to matter too much.

Edited by Mzuz, 14 October 2005 - 01:32 PM.


#6 testarossa

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Posted 15 October 2005 - 03:09 PM

Russia actually spans 11 time zones.
http://www.worldtime...ime-russia2.htm

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



:huh?: its seems logical that the larger the country the easier it would be to infiltrate as there is a lot more area possible for the aliens to land/ fly over ect generating a much higher activity rate. I'm sure it was an unintentional glich though, was it fixed in the CE version though? I've honestly never let the game run that long before.

#7 Blehm 98

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Posted 15 October 2005 - 03:25 PM

as alien activity is classified by either region or country, it is possible that since russia spans two regions, although one region might have a lot of activity, the other may not, and that could really mess it up
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#8 Zombie

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Posted 15 October 2005 - 06:16 PM

Russia actually spans 11 time zones.
http://www.worldtime...ime-russia2.htm

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I realize that, Mzuz. I wasn't referring to "time zones", but regions the game breaks the globe into. Here is a post I made a while back about this:

Most likely, Russia can't be infiltrated because it spans such a gigantic area (I believe stewart mentioned this). In fact, that country is so big, it has 6 different "zones" where you can place a base:

  • Europe

  • Siberia

  • Central Asia

  • South East Asia

  • Pacific

  • Arctic
This might be the cause of why aliens can't sign a pact with Russia: the aliens can only target a "zone" to infiltrate, not a country. It is the most logical theory out there right now and seems to explain things a bit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The main glitch most people witness while "testing" out whether shooting down/visiting the vessels in an infiltration fleet stops the country from defecting is that you didn't actually shoot down or visit all of the vessels. Simply put, there is an initial reconnaissance scout that shows up long before the rest of the fleet does. My feeling is that this scout is responsible for signing a pact with the country. The fleet that shows up after this is a result of the country allowing limitless access of its land for anything the aliens want. Since the aliens now have a green light, they send a bunch of UFO's in to build a base and conduct their activity unopposed. So by ignoring this scout, you may be inadvertently changing the outcome.

Another variable which may play a part is the difficulty level you are playing at. Play on beginner and there is probably a good chance that early attempts will be thwarted. Increase the difficulty to superhuman and it may be close to impossible to keep a country from signing a pact. :)

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of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!


#9 testarossa

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Posted 15 October 2005 - 11:19 PM

The main glitch most people witness while "testing" out whether shooting down/visiting the vessels in an infiltration fleet stops the country from defecting is that you didn't actually shoot down or visit all of the vessels. Simply put, there is an initial reconnaissance scout that shows up long before the rest of the fleet does. My feeling is that this scout is responsible for signing a pact with the country. The fleet that shows up after this is a result of the country allowing limitless access of its land for anything the aliens want. Since the aliens now have a green light, they send a bunch of UFO's in to build a base and conduct their activity unopposed. So by ignoring this scout, you may be inadvertently changing the outcome.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Yes...but the same exact sequence happens when the aliens are trying locate an X-com base, first reconnaissance ships come, usually very small first and then next a small, until the battleships start coming. I've shot down every single ship that comes into a territory bearing the hyperwave of "alien infiltration" in a month preceeding the convoy of battleships and larges, and there is no infiltration. And I'm fairly positive that I am able to get all the preceeding craft as it is always the same sequence. I also do ground assaults on alien infiltration ships just to be positive. Yet always when the large convoy arrives the country falls. I think the scouts are doing just that, scouting out a good territory so they can send in the workhorse battleships to infiltrate the country. In the end though I think perhaps once a country is marked for infiltration you can just kiss it goodbye :wave:

#10 Zombie

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Posted 16 October 2005 - 01:08 PM

I think the scouts are doing just that, scouting out a good territory so they can send in the workhorse battleships to infiltrate the country. In the end though I think perhaps once a country is marked for infiltration you can just kiss it goodbye :wave:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You hit the nail on the head with that statement, testarossa! :)

The reason why I think the scout is responsible is because I had a saved game where I sent 2 Avengers with unlimited fuel to permanently hover over South America. I saw a Small Scout show up, and then leave. Right before the "main" fleet was to arrive, my Avengers picked up the location of an alien base. Directy after this the main fleet showed up in full force. I think that once that base is built, it's impossible to turn the tide in your favor. Case in point: not every infiltration mission has a base built. And those "seemed" to have a better chance of successfully stopping the country from turning. :)

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#11 Mzuz

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Posted 16 October 2005 - 05:24 PM

Hm....well doomed they are then. Heck, in the last 3 months I've lost 3 countries. Even though I've shot down everything that flies. The funny thing is, with the exception of the U.S. since they were giving 2+ million, I actually gained more money then I lost from countries pulling out at the end of the month.

It's good to know that russia won't fall, I could easily sustain myself on just what I raid from ships and bases. That way I can keep this game rolling. I wanna hit 2010...dunno if I'll have th patiance though >.<

Edited by Mzuz, 16 October 2005 - 05:25 PM.


#12 dipstick

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Posted 17 October 2005 - 05:52 AM

Zombie> have you tried killing the base that appears? Maybe that has an effect??

And I take it that if you take out the scout which appears before the fleet, it stops the pact?

Or am I just going off on a tangent?
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#13 testarossa

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Posted 17 October 2005 - 12:59 PM

And I take it that if you take out the scout which appears before the fleet, it stops the pact?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



It does no good to take out the scout ship. Even if you do take it down and ground assualt it before it even reaches the country, the later larger convoy still shows up. It's like the scout is only a formality, like the aliens are trying to be polite and show you exactly which country the plan to infiltrate so you can be helpless about it. :(

#14 Zombie

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Posted 17 October 2005 - 03:39 PM

Sometimes when you take out the initial scout, the aliens just send another scout in it's place. They may send a few different scout sizes (usually a combination of the Small, Medium and Large scouts, though on occasion I have seen a battleship buzz around too). After you take the first scout out, another comes in its place, and another, and another... I recall quite clearly being able to thwart a full-fledged infiltration by knocking down those scouts. :)

If an infiltration mission follows the same guidelines as a retaliation mission then:
  • The aliens give up for a while and postpone the planned infiltration mission if you shoot down too many scouts.
  • Try to infiltrate a different country instead.
  • Go ahead and send the full infiltration fleet anyway.
I realize that "infiltration" and "retaliation" are not the same thing, but the game has been known to cannibalize certain coding to make things easier. If this is the case, then difficulty level surely plays a role in this discussion. For the most part, I am basing these theories on running the game on Beginner for many years. I noticed that when you suddenly switch to superhuman, the probability of stopping certain alien missions is rather low. ;)

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#15 Crafty

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 12:28 AM

I'm not sure how much the difficulty matters. In my first try at Novice, I watched Australia get infiltrated and turn on me, with TWO alien bases established at the same time -- Ethereal bases. It sucked.

Edited by Crafty, 13 January 2006 - 12:37 AM.


#16 Adun_Toridas

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 09:09 PM

But what when we shoot ALL ALIEN SHIPS AND THE COUNTRY IS STILL INFILTRATED!!! Trust me, thatīs terrible.

Edited by Adun_Toridas, 13 January 2006 - 09:09 PM.


#17 blue123

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 10:42 AM

I know how you feel. I was almost at the endgame and then I lost all funders. Is it really true Russia can't be infiltrated? If it is, I'm going to focus around there.

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 11:03 AM

since it can't be infiltrated, it'd be best if you focused your efforts elsewhere, maybe.
it's a possibility that the game actually cheats, or that there is a default infiltration chance that it's there whether you shoot all ships or not. if it cheats, it's to keep you on your toes. can you gain countries back?

#19 Zombie

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 02:53 PM

Well, I have tested this out a few times already and in each case Russia could not be infiltrated by the aliens. Still, this needs more testing to prove completely. If Russia truly can't be invaded, then it stands to reason that it doesn't need to be protected against the worst type of alien threat: an infiltration mission. You would therefore be better off setting up bases in other areas to prolong cash flow from those countries.

The cheating aspect I doubt, however. One theory of mine is that the alienís chance for infiltration success depends at least partially on difficulty level of the game. On easier levels it just seems like you can thwart such attempts, while at higher levels it is almost impossible to stop.

Finally, countries can switch back to X-COM after being infiltrated, but only in the original DOS version of the game. It is not true for the Playstation or the CE versions. :)

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#20 SaintD

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 05:43 PM

Finally, countries can switch back to X-COM after being infiltrated, but only in the original DOS version of the game. It is not true for the Playstation or the CE versions. :)

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Oh! I thought it was impossible in any version. I have the DOS version. How does one go about winning them back? France has signed a pack in my current game.

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#21 stewart

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 06:46 PM

Zombie has tested this extensively and unfortunately, as far as I know, has not found an answer as yet.

I on the other hand have gotten countries back many times. Keep your scores high, maybe. Zombie stumbled upon my trick for that while trying to dig this up. . . . believe it or not; leave alien bases laying around, and of course have enough airplanes to deal with it.
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#22 NKF

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 12:11 AM

For the record, when I was playing the Dos version, with the 1.4 update, I never saw any countries return either. Being a much less experienced player than I am now, I had constantly had a fair number of countries gone due to infiltration (mostly half of Europe), but continued to do fairly well in the area.

But those are my more recent memories. Even later memories appear to tell me another story and that they did return when I was first introduced to UFO by way of floppy disks. But these same memories are the ones that made me believe that multiple grav shields worked. I've disproved that, so it's hard to trust them. :)

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#23 JoeJoe

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 02:07 AM

Ive tried to think outside the box on this issue. After playing a game for about year (game time) I suddenly lost the US. I had a backup saved from the prior month so i loaded it up and made sure i downed everything that I saw in the sky. Yet, I still lost the US.


These are the theories that I came up with:

First, Infiltration missions may not have an effect for a period of time:
AKA, the mission happens and you THINK that youve thwarted their attempt because you still receive funding from the country at the end of the month, however in reality they succeeded at placing their alien infiltrator (who by all accounts is suppose to resemble a human) and it has taken them a few months to finally turn the country.


Second, other political driven reasons for turning:
I know this one sounds nuts, but what if certain countries are effected not by just the aliens, but by the other countries that have infiltrated. (EG, the US will turn when a few of its allies have). A good test for this would be to look at games where say, european countries have been infiltrated, and then a country unexplainably turns (even with the score in your favor).


Third, Complete Randomness:
I really hate to think that infiltration just has some random factor that is uncontrolable, but it may be true.


Fourth, Score doesn't ensure no infiltration:
Even with the score highly in your favor, you can still loose a country. This leads me to believe that my second theory is true.

Fifth, Gameplay adjustment:
Perhaps if your doing TOO well, the game tries to even the score a bit by taking away a strong funding nation.

sixth, YOU HAVENT DETECTED EVERYTHING
I know we like to think that the detection systems see everything, but according to the UFO pedia, they only have " 5% chance of detecting an average sized object every 10 minutes." I am not sure that this is even in effect, but its possible that we dont see everything.

#24 Dover

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 10:19 AM

/*sixth, YOU HAVENT DETECTED EVERYTHING
I know we like to think that the detection systems see everything, but according to the UFO pedia, they only have " 5% chance of detecting an average sized object every 10 minutes." I am not sure that this is even in effect, but its possible that we dont see everything*/

According to Kuo-Sheng Kasey Chang's strategy guide (Which has been proven wrong on some accounts already), a HWD detects 100% of everything that comes it's path.

I'm not sure this is true, because sometimes I've detected UFOs that are waaaay too close to my bases, but maybe they "spawned" there? I dunno...

#25 Pherdnut

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 02:48 PM

I think they spawned there. I'm pretty sure the decoders give 100% tracking from my experience. Reports of alien infiltration in places where people had a decoder could have resulted from an undetected alien base that was sitting there beforehand. Also, I don't think crashlanded ships count against you if you ignore them. I'm a very aggressive player and never lose countries to infiltration but ignore crashed UFOs all the time. Radars are pretty lousy and you should try to get the Decoders ASAP rather than building multiple ones. They really help you prioritize and letting researchers land is a good way to get extra elerium early on. Also, until you get a large radar at your first base, always have one interceptor in the air patrolling. They seem to have a wider range than the small radar and I sometimes detect and bag the first Terror Ship in the game this way. A Terror Ship always shows up towards the end of the month and you can shoot it down with those long range missiles if you're lucky and have enough fuel for both interceptors to reach it.

#26 Zombie

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 02:57 PM

#1: There isn't a "delayed reaction" for infiltration missions to be successful. If the aliens did manage to slip past, the infiltration attempt against that country will show up at the end of month summary. I have never seen a country turn without some kind of alien intervention in that area.

#2: How and when countries turn seems to be completely random. Political factors or affiliation can hardly play a role when sometimes the US falls first, and other times almost last.

#4: Score does not play a role in infiltration. If this were true, a score of +25,000 would at least give you a chance to save a country. After reloading about 250 times I never saw this. If a country is slated to be infiltrated, there seems to be very little a base commander can do to stop it cold.

#5: I couldn't really say if this is true, as not enough testing was done into this scenario. However, when I had my score in the +25,000 range, the aliens didn't seem to be more prone to attack the USA than say Spain.

#6: Now this I can believe somewhat. Normal radar systems are not perfect in their detection capabilities. This is fact when looking at either the in-game info (which is probably flawed), or the game files themselves.

According to Kuo-Sheng Kasey Chang's strategy guide (Which has been proven wrong on some accounts already), a HWD detects 100% of everything that comes it's path.

I'm not sure this is true, because sometimes I've detected UFOs that are waaaay too close to my bases, but maybe they "spawned" there? I dunno...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No matter how far the probabilities are off for the standard radar detection systems, the 100% detection rate for the Hyperwave shouldn't really be in dispute. The 100% rate should be correct. As for alien ships suddenly appearing on your Hyperwave radar, I proposed a theory for this a while back which seems to hold up: Hemispherical Detection.

When looking from above, it is only natural to assume that the detection capability of your radar systems extends in a circle surrounding the base. This may be true when looking down at flat map. The flaw here is that the detection radius is a 2-dimensional representation of a 3 dimensional system. In other words, we seem to focus on the x,y plane (left and right), but neglect to realize that there is a third coordinate involved: the z-axis (height). Instead of thinking of detection range as a circle around your base, I proposed we should think of the range as a hemispherical "shell" surrounding it. (Imagine a ball cut in half with your base in the center).

Say your radar has a range of 2500 nautical miles. If a UFO was following the nap of the earth, your radar would pick it up 2500 nautical miles out. However, detection capability not only extends 2500 nautical miles out, but it also extends up. If a UFO is flying higher in the air, it would appear from the map that it suddenly spawned within the detection limit somehow.

Imagine a UFO hovering directly above your base 2501 nautical miles up. Your detection systems would be oblivious to the presence of the UFO. Now imagine it starts to lose altitude. When it breaks the 2500 nautical mile shell, the UFO suddenly appears to come out of nowhere. Technically, the UFO is still 2500 nautical miles away, its just that most of the distance is factored into height instead of linear distance out.

Bah, why don't I just make a diagram? It's easier this way. LOL

Hemispherical_Detection.jpg

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They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!


#27 stewart

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 03:02 PM

I think it can happen if the UFO land in a neutral city as well. I lost India once and the only landing was in Tehran. In Zombiesque style I replayed that month and observered the activity graphs closely, that was the only landing.
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#28 JoeJoe

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 03:24 PM

#1: There isn't a "delayed reaction" for infiltration missions to be successful. If the aliens did manage to slip past, the infiltration attempt against that country will show up at the end of month summary. I have never seen a country turn without some kind of alien intervention in that area.


Perhaps it was because i could not detect the activity, but i have had countries turn w/out the normal infiltration mission.

#5: I couldn't really say if this is true, as not enough testing was done into this scenario. However, when I had my score in the +25,000 range, the aliens didn't seem to be more prone to attack the USA than say Spain.


I didnt mean this in a sense that they begin to attack a country more, just that they choose to infiltrate that country as their next target. Much like we choose which UFOs to down and which to ignor, the aliens may choose which countries would provide the greatest benefit to infiltrate.


This is a question about Radar:
The more you have in a base, does that increase the range at which you can detect? increase the probability of detection? or increase the rate of detection? or all of the above?

#29 Pherdnut

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 04:59 PM

As I understand it, having additional radars increases chance of detection, but not range. Hyperwave Decoder gives 100% detection. IMO, it's not worth setting up more radars because of the expense. I usually make hyperwave a priority in the second month and all my new bases start with hyperwave.

I'm quite certain that shooting down UFOs and not picking up the mess has a negligible if any effect on infiltration. I've had domination games where I had Antarctica Base cranking out massive amounts of laser cannons for money, Interceptors with Plasma Cannons for most ships, and Avengers for taking out Battleships all over the world and near total coverage of the entire planet's surface with hyperwave decoders. I let all research ships land so I could keep the Elerium flowing and shot down all the other ships that I spotted. Didn't lose a single country in four years before I got bored and I didn't bother picking up most of the crashlanded UFOs including ones with infiltration missions.

If the aliens were capable of slipping past hyperwave or just nebulously infiltrating somehow, they clearly have to land and/or set up bases somewhere and research missions that are allowed to land don't appear to contribute. So, it could be possible that they only have to land in a neighboring or not even remotely close region to effect another, but if you're shooting them all down, they don't seem to be able to get a foothold and mission type does appear to be relevant, at least where the research missions are concerned. This experience is also the reason I believe hyperwave decoders are definitely 100% effective at detection. When an alien pops up within hyperwave range, they are always at a very high altitude and usually moving very fast to somewhere halfway across the world.

Edit: One thing I noticed on the PlayStation version (haven't played the PC version in years but I did have one of those domination games on the PC) is that in Superhuman Difficulty, when those large infiltration fleets show up (typically a Battleship, a couple supply ships, a terror ship, and sometimes smaller stuff), alien bases show up before they even land. Not sure about the second hardest difficulty, but I'm sure this doesn't happen in the medium difficulty. So, maybe in Superhuman, ships don't even have to land in order to accomplish their missions. I think I had the beginningof a domination game going in superhuman difficulty once though and as long as I cleared the bases out, everything seemed fine.

Edited by Pherdnut, 07 February 2006 - 05:07 PM.


#30 Zombie

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 05:08 PM

This is a question about Radar:
The more you have in a base, does that increase the range at which you can detect? increase the probability of detection? or increase the rate of detection? or all of the above?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

According to what the game says (and the Official Strategy Guide by David Ellis), more standard radars = higher probability of detecting a UFO. However this is in direct conflict with what NKF pulled out of the game files. Turns out that multiple radars of the same type don't add anything in terms of detection. In addition, the only way to get higher rates of detection is to use one Small Radar and one Large Radar. Technically, the Hyperwave Decoder should also increase the chances of detection by adding it to the standard radar duo, but since it's probability is already 100%... :)

NKF does a really good job of explaining this in the Wikipedia for X-COM. =b

- Zombie
The Mr. Grognard of X-COM

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!


#31 Redbull

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Posted 03 March 2006 - 12:13 PM

About Radar detection range...

is it not a combined ground-satellite system? Think a read something about that in the ufopedia.

ok, here is my picture...

Posted Image

Best wishes
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Edited by Redbull, 03 March 2006 - 12:29 PM.


#32 stewart

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Posted 03 March 2006 - 12:29 PM

pad "spaces" with "alt 250"


See this post for an example


edit: "never mind" :Blush:
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I'm starting to like the heavy cannon more and more.

#33 Pherdnut

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Posted 04 March 2006 - 03:34 PM

Is it just me or are the alien base missions scouting missions and the large infiltration fleets the ones that actually set up bases? I always find a base if I let the infiltration fleets land in medium and on superhuman it seems like a base appears the second they show up. Always the infiltration fleets, not the alien base ships.

#34 Zombie

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Posted 04 March 2006 - 06:11 PM

You are entirely correct there, Pherdnut. The small alien ships are primarily used for scouting missions and are not intended to be used as the key contact with a potential government.

Battleships are not responsible for creating the base of operations either. As I found, the base is constructed long before the primary infiltration fleet shows up. Construction must go undetected (maybe itís covertly done by the countries themselves?) sometime between the scout and the main fleet. ;)

- Zombie
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Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!


#35 Dover

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Posted 05 March 2006 - 07:56 PM

That doesn't really make since, what's the point of the battleships then?!

Perhaps the game creates the main fleet at the same time it creates the base. A kind of "You let the scout through, the base is unavoidable, but we're sending you 4 battleships 2 supply ships and a terror ship anyway, to fool anybody who doesn't play close enough attention to the fact that the base is already there".

Or maybe Ye Programmers Of Olde just screwed up...

#36 Kratos

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Posted 05 March 2006 - 08:01 PM

What is the point of battleships? What do you mean? They raid you and in some cases find you. They even will attack your crafts.

#37 Zombie

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Posted 05 March 2006 - 08:41 PM

That doesn't really make since, what's the point of the battleships then?!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The point of the battleships is to make things difficult. The aliens are trying to overwhelm your forces by flooding the area with large UFOs intent upon destroying your troops on a ground insertion. Another point is that many alien ships rack up points for their side (or negative points on yours). A big point swing in the aliens favor usually creates chaotic funding from other countries. :)

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Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!


#38 Dover

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Posted 06 March 2006 - 10:43 AM

Um, I meant in alien base construction. It's rather obvious what the point of battleships is otherwise...<wince>