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Some Code Can Be Used, Altho Java


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#1 margant

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Posted 26 November 2002 - 01:42 AM

Hi
i am new here but I am very fond of the XCOM:UFO titles as most of you guys are. I was reaserching a lot and found that some useful code is available at the EDS project website.

It is a tiling system in java that allows user to create maps. A lil buggy tho and without the source itself it can be no use, unless reverse engineering can be done to get the source and fix it up so we can proceed to , hm , maybe map creating for the game?

How about that?
Direct link to the thread w/code
http://edf-project.s...wtopic.php?t=27

thanks

#2 PeterDragon

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Posted 26 November 2002 - 02:35 AM

Ok, well I could sucessfuly decompiled it... and then compile it again. But, it is their code, and maybe we should ask first?
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#3 Guest_stewart_*

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Posted 26 November 2002 - 12:19 PM

Is this for creating datafiles or for drawing to the screen?

#4 gangsta

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Posted 26 November 2002 - 01:37 PM

I think this is probably going to end up being useless. More than likely since we are dealing with 3D and will design what we think is best we will end up making our own datatypes that are incompatible with the java map editor's datatypes. Just because a map editor is out there doesn't mean we can use it if the datatype it produces doesn't fit in with our coding style.
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#5 margant

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Posted 26 November 2002 - 01:39 PM

I am going to ask a dude who coded it. AS I believe the EDS project is a freeware with the 'opened' code, thus tecnically there should be nothing standing behind us using the program.

As i understand by developing and expanding this piece we can get up to creating the maps for the game. PLEASE - to anyone good in graphics - please see it and figure out how to design new sprites and stuff.


btw:
PeterDragon : what did u use to decompline the .class files to get source and is it obfuscated (unreadable code) or no ?

Once again.
Truly the fan of XCOM
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#6 gangsta

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Posted 26 November 2002 - 01:42 PM

Well you gotta talk to Apoc1985 there :) ... but is this map editor 3d? also we are probably going to random generate maps in a logical way instead of having static maps.
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#7 margant

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Posted 26 November 2002 - 02:03 PM

I bet using this code there is a way to random generate them as well so it wont be anything extra ordinary

now the task would be - get textures.


No it is not 3D but very close to it. Check for urslelf.
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#8 gangsta

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Posted 26 November 2002 - 04:14 PM

well almost 3d might not be good enough. From what I understand is that we are planning to do some plasma fractal generation to generate terrain like hills and so forth. The wilderness will be really random wheras cities and inside of buildings will be more uniform. a map editor perhaps could be useful in designing the random generator in the way of ideas when it comes to cities or the inside of UFO's.. now UFOs won't be random at all actually.. I dunno :) ask Red Knight what he thinks.
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#9 Guest_stewart_*

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Posted 26 November 2002 - 04:23 PM

If this is just a tool for us to generate the artwork, then I don't care if it's Java. If otherwise would it replace CS? If Peter can properly decompile it then it can be translated to C++, if need be.

#10 gangsta

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Posted 26 November 2002 - 04:31 PM

;) geez stewart ya gotta read the messages.. He's talking about map editor. "It is a tiling system in java that allows user to create maps." So nothing here about creating art. And we already know how much work it is decompiling stuff and here we talking about decompiling java which is diffrent from a normal exe. That decompiling stuff takes longer than actually writing the code yourself I think. So I don't see why :) people keep wanting to do it *G*
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#11 margant

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Posted 26 November 2002 - 04:43 PM

In any case. I have a very interesting question here -
do u guys think that there is a chance there could be a mutual cooperation between X-COm remake and EDS, cuz I am thinking that if both are open source projects there should be anything wrong w/it.

#12 gangsta

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Posted 26 November 2002 - 05:00 PM

Sure :) no problem there.. but werent they planning to do a realtime remake? Also, there is a chance the projects might be incompatible. We were talking to the UFO2000 people awhile back about merging. Turned out we were incompatible because we want to make a 3D remake and they wanted us to mainly work on the geoscope and they work on their 2D battlescape. I suggested that they rewrite the code for the 2D battlescape so it could be used by both a 2D and 3D interface but never got a response back from em. So I guess they're are not willing to go that far. Now we were compatible with Red Knight and joined forces there. It is easier to merge two projects than what it seems both sides have to be willing to give and take a little..
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#13 Guest_stewart_*

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Posted 26 November 2002 - 06:26 PM

;) geez stewart ya gotta read the messages.. He's talking about map editor. "It is a tiling system in java that allows user to create maps."  So nothing here about creating art.  And we already know how much work it is decompiling stuff and here we talking about decompiling java which is diffrent from a normal exe.  That decompiling stuff takes longer than actually writing the code yourself I think.  So I don't see why :) people keep wanting to do it *G*

Is it used for drawing the maps on the screen or for creating the artwork the maps use. It is not clear to me. Is this an intended module the game will use to render the landscape during play or is this a CAD tool for creating the map textures/tiles/whatever? No need to be like that.

#14 margant

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Posted 26 November 2002 - 06:34 PM

the prog is for maps. But u can also preprogram UFO's and buildings(and all objects that are not going to be random on the map) by using already created textures. Thus if this tool is compatible with the current game engine, why not use it?

I am gunna download and try to run the code as posted on the website, is there anything I should know? Who is contributing and where are artists/programmers and scenario writers?

And with all the actuality - where is the code? I am thinking about joining this project but w/o the code i dont know how much i can really contribute.


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#15 gangsta

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Posted 26 November 2002 - 07:12 PM

Is it used for drawing the maps on the screen or for creating the artwork the maps use.  It is not clear to me.  Is this an intended module the game will use to render the landscape during play or is this a CAD tool for creating the map textures/tiles/whatever?  No need to be like that.

:) sorry if I'm coming of the wrong way but how I read the thing it seems obvious that he talking about a map editor and not a texture editor. :) maybe I'm reading it wrong. But from what I get it is not a CAD tool but more of a UFO2000 like edtior where you put those kind of tiles on the screen. :) but maybe I'm assuming it too much. Either way if it is a map editor we don't know yet if we like the format it saves maps in. I suppose someone could test that.
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#16 gangsta

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Posted 26 November 2002 - 07:16 PM

the prog is for maps. But u can also preprogram UFO's and buildings(and all objects that are not going to be random on the map) by using already created textures. Thus if this tool is compatible with the current game engine, why not use it?

I am gunna download and try to run the code as posted on the website, is there anything I should know? Who is contributing and where are artists/programmers and scenario writers?

And with all the actuality - where is the code? I am thinking about joining this project but w/o the code i dont know how much i can really contribute.


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:) well perhaps for templates in the building since objects do move around in those buildings. UFO design maybe too.. but question is how flexible is it in design? I don't think we want to limit ourself to square tiles like the Base is designed in X-Com.. Like for base design we might get rid of that silly square thing and just allow a huge space to but long hallways and so forth in it. That triangular base you start off with really only sucks because of lack of space.
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#17 margant

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Posted 26 November 2002 - 07:20 PM

So how do i get the code of the project?
DO i have to wait for Red Knight or whats up?

And I will find out if i can successfully decompose to code of the prog and if yes I can save it any format required.

#18 gangsta

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Posted 26 November 2002 - 07:28 PM

So how do i get the code of the project?
DO i have to wait for Red Knight or whats up?

And I will find out if i can successfully decompose to code of the prog and if yes I can save it any format required.

Well :) Red Knight is with this projects right here. if you have to contact the other project.. they have a sourceforge page ya can look for info.
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#19 margant

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Posted 26 November 2002 - 07:35 PM

naa I meant this project. X-COm remake. I want to code if I can.

#20 gangsta

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Posted 26 November 2002 - 09:14 PM

:) Sure thing. You're a C/C++ programmer?
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#21 margant

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Posted 26 November 2002 - 09:56 PM

Yep
C++/C Java ASP VB altho not a big fan of hardcore assembly but can do it as well.

#22 gangsta

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Posted 26 November 2002 - 10:06 PM

Ah that's cool. :) get a sourceforge account and I add you as a member. BTW have you done any ISO C++ (1999 standard). It's a new standard but it will make a diffrence when it comes to organized code..
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#23 PeterDragon

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Posted 27 November 2002 - 01:00 AM

Ok, I didn't want to say before, but I did decompile it. And it is all correct in the compiling. It is medium difficulty in reading if you know java, but if anyone wants it, just ask me.
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#24 red knight

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Posted 27 November 2002 - 09:43 AM

well almost 3d might not be good enough.  From what I understand is that we are planning to do some plasma fractal generation to generate terrain like hills and so forth.  The wilderness will be really random wheras cities and inside of buildings will be more uniform.  a map editor perhaps could be useful in designing the random generator in the way of ideas when it comes to cities or the inside of UFO's.. now UFOs won't be random at all actually..  I dunno :) ask Red Knight what he thinks.

Fractal generation with Perlin Noise and that kind of stuff is perfect in wilderness (have done little in it, not more than some projects for a Fractal's Course and have little experience in Height Fields, but for what i had done it is a very powerful method to create and represent fractal and procedural maps) but in cities we had to use less random, more stable and controlable procedural technics. Had saw a paper in Siggraph 2002 (if not 2001) about using LSystems in cityscape generation and the pictures look really good. (Had implemented a Context Free generator for that, had to find the source thats all).

About throwing away the tiles stuff i strongly aggree with that, because it looks more realistic (and nice :) )...

About the objects, they can be created with a 3D Modelling Package and exported in a usable format. Theres a lot of good formats already defined out there with freeware loaders implementations, Lightwave for example. The other is create a format of our own and i have been doing an exporter for 3D Max because is the one i have access in my uni, by now it only export geometry in a very inneficient way, i had to work a little on that and UV Coordinates to be a little useful... The plus of your own implementations is that you are not tied to any format and can add whatever you want (provided you do it well :P ) like bones, keyframing animation, multichannel UV Coordinates, Particles Effects directly from the modelling software, etc...
Eventually we could first use an off the shelf solution and if we need create our own... (Just a thought)...

As i had been talking with Gangsta, because most of us want to do diferent games (mod stuff)... We should concentrate on defining a base arquitecture or framework that should be stable, powerful but flexible (not a little task)... The problem is that if we start from the start doing multiple code branches we will never get that arquitecture (that will help a lot in the long run) so we should concentrate on a very simple tasklist and add the most ideas that were running in the forum as a Wish List....

Simple tasklist: Not Battlescape nor geoscape oriented...

- Identify base objects and interfaces. (ex. Personnel, Soldiers, Engineers, etc... ex. Interface Storable (all objects that can be stored in stores), Interface Store (objects that can store Storable objects, like Aircrafts, General Stores, etc)... Interface Wearable (obviouly not all storable objects can be carried around by a soldier, so a specialization of the Storable object is needed), etc....
- Identify the relationship between objects and interfaces (Soldiers can carry Wearable objects, General Stores can handle any Storable object even wearable objects)...
- Identify attributes for this objects ....
- Implement all those simple objects...

Until here not Graphics Engine is needed...

- Find a way to implement a simple visual component library (buttons, radiobuttons, containers, etc) in the chosen graphic engine.
- Find a way to implement a simple User Interface Framework... (lot of work here)

After we have this 50% aprox implemented... I think that more of that in necessary but theres a lot of people eager to start in Geoscape and Battlescape stuff...

Simple tasklist: Battlescape oriented
- Find which objects and general interfaces are needed for SIMPLE Tasks...
- Implement a simple terrain generator (plain is ok for start, no objects either).
- Implement SIMPLE events like shoting with a Weapon, Movement (not IA, plain movement), time units spent, etc....
- No FXs.

Simple tasklist: Geoscape oriented

- Identify important events that can appear.
- Generate SIMPLE (controlable) events like UFO Sighting, Aircraft Chasing, UFO Avoidance (they will be implemented inteligently in the future).
- User Interface Management.
- Base management.
- Purchasing stuff, research (simple tree but extendible), manufacture.

Important thing:

Its important to add that most of the things enumerated before dont need a User Interface either (graphics stuff) but some others will, so my reflexion is:

Doesnt matters if the soldiers in battlescape are boxes (the bounding boxes), buttons or base component are no more than boxes with names... But you should plan from the start which is the final aproximate output, for example Soldiers will be boxes doesnt mean we do not plan to add mesh to it... another example to KEEP IT SIMPLE no multiplayer doesnt mean we will no plan for it...

Wish List:
- Multiplayer
- More advance events
- More weapons
- FXs (Particles Systems, etc)
- (Add your stuff here to know in advance)

Hope this will help a little (took almost 1 hour and a half to put all this together) :bash:

If you have a comment, suggestion, objection, etc. Just write as always :P

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#25 Guest_stewart_*

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Posted 27 November 2002 - 01:17 PM

Ok, I didn't want to say before, but I did decompile it. And it is all correct in the compiling.  It is medium difficulty in reading if you know java, but if anyone wants it, just ask me.

How much text is it?

#26 gangsta

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Posted 27 November 2002 - 01:59 PM

Well I agree with everything Red Knight said except multiplayer isn't on the wish list for me. I think once we start working on the battlescape we can start working on the multiplayer part. Single Player can be Multiplayer with one guy logged in. Before that we would need to design the login system in one of the layers. Also once the battlescape gets made it's important to note that this is a battlescape centered game. The Geoscope can be replaced with other interfaces like a planetscape or a 2D map. Fact we probably want to make a Generator Option screen for the battlescape when we are working on it..
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#27 PeterDragon

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Posted 30 November 2002 - 06:49 PM

How much text is it?

In total, they are ~ 75 KB. Umm, I have ~ 30-35 small .java class files (around 1/2 a page), and another ~ 7-10 larger .java class files (these are ~ 2-4 pages long each)
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#28 margant

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Posted 02 December 2002 - 10:41 AM

just a comment :

For the multiplayer I think it would be easiest to borrow most of the code from the UFO2000 project..

By the way - do we have story/document writers and if not - 'n-one wants to be one?

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