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Could We Beat Aftermath ?


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#1 Crix Dorius

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Posted 15 August 2003 - 07:44 AM

What do you think ?

UFO: Afthermath
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#2 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 15 August 2003 - 08:56 AM

Without a doubt. It will be a good game, no doubt, but IMO the features seem 2 lose the X-Com feel. I never liked the real-time idea, I think it only worked in Apoc coz the corridors were so long and winding that it takes AGES in turn-based. Plus the fact that u can't destroy models and I like it even less.

We may not be able 2 match their graphics, but we can match and surpass their gameplay which is what is important IMO.

#3 Aosar

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Posted 15 August 2003 - 09:44 AM

Hmm, maybe, but we will have more "realistic" graphics I presume. 'Cause we scale all our models to humans so the "giant" problem you can see in Aftermath won't be in xenocide.

And as for gameplay; h3ll yes, we'll beat 'em. They don't got indoors and outdoors on the same map at all! AFAIK that is...
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#4 A_dxman

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Posted 24 August 2003 - 10:29 PM

we will, WILL kick AM's donkey! no because of the look of the game but because Xenocide will feal X-com. hard core X-com fans will lap up the game because it feals X-com. if the game looks like a cross betwene X-com and unreall 2 then great, if not it's all good becaues we are trying to make the game creapy!!!
It will be good because we all want it to be good and we dont have a dead line to work to.

Think it will be good and it will be so!

PS creapy sound could make or break the game. (like in the old horror movies)
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Posted 25 August 2003 - 04:42 AM

Yeah, I agree with u about the sounds, I made that point a while back. Tho I think their landscapes will look better, we will have more variety I think.

#6 Breunor

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Posted 25 August 2003 - 06:53 AM

I think you'll be surprised when you see our battlescapes with bump mapping a environmental lighting effects. So far everything we're seeing is taken out of context, but looking at their main screens on that link I see our models and UI being right on par with that game.

And in the public's mind ours will always be better because it's free! :D

#7 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 25 August 2003 - 07:01 AM

Really? I've seen some promising graphics from that, here's a pic: Do u think we can match this? I really hope so coz I'd love 2 see it :)

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#8 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 25 August 2003 - 08:52 AM

I am going to buy that to placate my need for a real xcom until xenocide is released.

It looks great but im not sure about wether it will be able to surpass xenocide. I mean, they are realeasing their game soon, so basically what you see is what you get, but xenocide has 2 years to be made, so we can incorporate any really nifty features that are introduced in that time. Besides, xenocide will have more versions and options after version 1 because as I understand it, we will release more v1+ options once version 1 is out the door.

Besides Bruenor is correct, Xenocide will always be better because it is free!
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#9 Breunor

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Posted 25 August 2003 - 09:04 AM

While it looks great, all I really see there is lots of nice texturing. Without seeing how the gameplay works, I couldn't tell you much else. I'm sure it will be a really nice game, but I think we'll be on par with that. I agree with the time frame, you always have an advantage tech wise coming out later on. And because it's open source, upgrades/fixes/mods will be available faster as well.

#10 mamutas

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Posted 25 August 2003 - 12:41 PM

I just stumbled upon a forum discussion in www.warbucket.com where people were discussing X-Com original game. And you know what? No one has said: the game sucks cause graphic suck. But all said: the game is great cause it is interesting to play.

And this is what I feel myself. I still play it, cause I like the game, even if it looks horrible comparing with WC3 for example.

It will be hard for Xenocide to beat the original game. Because it was first. But, Xenocide can beat any game made after original one in any aspect: graphics, sounds, gameplay, etc.

Now, stop talking about it and go do something for the project! :)
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#11 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 25 August 2003 - 01:11 PM

Fair point, all we can do is try 2 improve upon the gameplay in the original while sticking 2 the overall things that worked in UFO. And I will go do something useful now :)

#12 XcomVic

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Posted 01 September 2003 - 11:01 PM

mamutas.. is that an Ultralisk from SC by any chance? I just noticed that.... SC rules!
...just a thought...

#13 mamutas

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Posted 02 September 2003 - 12:52 PM

yep, an ultralisk.
SC rules! :rock:
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#14 mikker

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Posted 02 September 2003 - 12:56 PM

there is 2 things baad in aftermatch:

1)the weapons don't match the age: many of those agents have hi-fi tech helmets, why run arround with those weapons? A SPAS and a shotgun?
2)The aliens are.....ugly.....

Edited by mikker, 02 September 2003 - 12:57 PM.

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#15 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 02 September 2003 - 01:10 PM

1. They have an adaption of the LandWarrior system IIRC.
2. Aliens ain't supposed 2 win no Miss Universe contest

#16 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 02 September 2003 - 01:32 PM

well, Jim is right.

The basic premise of the game is that earth has been invaded I believe. In this game, there was no xcom, so earth was conquered. The resistance (your guys) have to fight with whatever weapons they can get their hands on. Even an early 1900s era elephant gun would kill an alien, even though it is primitive.
Oh yeah, that is a p90 and a shotgun.

Aliens are supposed to be ugly! That gives the players one more reason to kill them.
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#17 ApOcaLyPSe_1985

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Posted 13 September 2003 - 05:45 PM

I must disagree with the fact that aliens are ugly in Aftermath.
I bet you haven't seen the best yet, there's a lot of them creeps in it and they look really good ^_^

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Posted 13 September 2003 - 05:49 PM

I looked at them. Personally the biggest problem I have with the game is that the character models look skinny and the textures look like they have been designed about a 10th of the size they need to be to look good ( which I think is exactly what they have done to cater for lower spec. computers ). That is what I think is meant by ugly.

#19 fux0r666

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Posted 13 September 2003 - 08:44 PM

The 3d models for the portraits at the bottom of the 'battlescape' screen are terrible. If we are going to do any such thing I think we ought to either have hand painted portrates modelled after the skin paintings (a la Baldur's gate) or hires models with a lot of time and effort put into them. Very rarely do 3d models ever convey any kind of emotion. Even in The Thing (excellent console game), with very expressive portrate animations, the faces came through dull and blase. The saving grace of them is that they were well acted and their interaction scripts were done well which allowed you to immerse into their personalities. I doubt we will have a similar feature.

Some of the most expressive game characters I have ever seen were the ones in the first Aliens vs. Predator (which was far superior to the second in mood and style by a hundred times). The screaming and acting and scripting was awesome. I loved how the marines would flip out and scream while spraying wildly in random directions.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#20 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 13 September 2003 - 08:57 PM

Yup, 3D is hard 2 do with model pictures, there are even clipping problems in Warcraft 3 and that is a game with a BIG budget. I don't think any portrait is necessary, just takes up space.

And The Thing is a quality game I couldn't stop playing it till the end and it lasted me a while :)

I still think Aftermath is going to be good, but the graphics are too geared towards lower spec machines IMO. No inbetween, just lower spec. I understand the need for it but there could have at least been a model detail option type thing ( who knows, they might be ).

#21 fux0r666

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Posted 13 September 2003 - 09:31 PM

In the movie of it it looks really cheesy too. The marines with their facial... equipment look very '80's b-movie scifi. The aliens look like they would be really interesting if you didn't see them for long or in good lighting (another 80's b movie sci fi technique), but in a video game where you get all the good looks you could possibly want I think their novelty will wear thin.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#22 stewart

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 06:40 AM

What do you think ?

UFO: Afthermath

Does it really matter? They'll make their game, we'll enjoy it. We'll make our game, they'll enjoy it. It's a fine game. Perhaps both games can inspire each other to be even better.
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I'm starting to like the heavy cannon more and more.

#23 ApOcaLyPSe_1985

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 09:21 AM

Remember, the core of a game isn't the graphics engine. It's the gameplay that counts ^_^
That's why ppl still play the XCOM series.

Edited by ApOcaLyPSe_1985, 16 September 2003 - 09:22 AM.


#24 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 10:27 AM

Remember, the core of a game isn't the graphics engine. It's the gameplay that counts ^_^
That's why ppl still play the XCOM series.

I disagree. Gameplay counts, but so does presentation. UFO may not have had pretty graphics but it had a certain Je ne sais qua about it. I'm still going to enjoy it, let it inspire me for ideas used here but that is a major flaw already in the game. Since you will be staring at those models for a long time they should look good, at least style wise, to set the atmosphere. Gameplay is important but equally so does the presentation. Maybe that's not the way it should work but it's the way it does.

Edit: The maps look great however :)

Edited by Jim69, 16 September 2003 - 10:28 AM.


#25 ApOcaLyPSe_1985

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 10:50 AM

Partially your right. The eye still wants something, but the mind must keep enjoying it to play the game on and on. So it's a bit of both that's necessary.

To me it doesn't really matter. I still play games that look crap but play so good.
I'm talking about retro gaming -_-
Ppl who retrogame know that the graphics are outdated, but still play it. And here only gameplay counts.
Also, I recently told a friend of mine who likes superior eye candy to play Kings Quest. I was amazed that he plays this, looking at the fact that he always told me he dislikes old crap.

#26 fux0r666

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 01:25 PM

My concern was not the engine but the artistry and presentation methods.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#27 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 01:41 PM

I agree with fux in some respects, I really don't like some of the models. Like the giant dog thing and the giant blob that has latched onto some hapless dude. Those just seem a little bit odd to me.
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#28 ApOcaLyPSe_1985

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Posted 17 September 2003 - 01:07 PM

There's a reason why there in, and I know we're going to accept it.
I bet once your going to play his baby, you'll be happy it's in ^_^

#29 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 17 September 2003 - 01:10 PM

You are probably correct. Damn, I don't want to wait!
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#30 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 17 September 2003 - 01:43 PM

Expect nothing and anything better is a welcome addition, MGS2 was spoiled for me because of my expectations so I will try not to get too excited. Sometimes I can't help it tho :)

#31 ApOcaLyPSe_1985

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Posted 17 September 2003 - 04:14 PM

aprox. 10 days until the UK release.
it'll take some time for the EUR release, damnit. i need it, i waited so long for a new xcom :crying:

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Posted 17 September 2003 - 04:30 PM

LOL, it will be shipped to my house the day after it comes out. Since it usually gets into shops the day after it comes out I will be one of the first to play it :happybanana:

#33 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 17 September 2003 - 05:18 PM

Grr, I live in the states. Why cant the us ever get the good games first?!?!?
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#34 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 17 September 2003 - 06:19 PM

Because you get everything else first, like movies etc. About time we got something first for once.

#35 Fred the Goat

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Posted 08 October 2003 - 05:15 PM

If you have any doubt that presentation can kick graphics in the nuts, download this game.

http://www.totallysc...et/zsxabout.htm

Then play the new lord of the rings game, masterfully modeled straight from the movie. The former will make you pee your pants, the latter will make you pee on your computer (don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of the books).

I definitely agree with the Baldur's Gate style portraits for this one. If we were a bunch of highly paid professionals like the aftermath guys, we would be doing as much 3D modeling as possible, and I don't fault them for going that route, but as we're a bunch of unpaid slobs, we should definitely focus on our strengths, and I think concept art will be a big one. We should throw around the stuff like candy.

Anyway, yeah, aftermath looks alright. I don't know if I'll buy it, but I'll definitely...obtain it...somehow.

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#36 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 08 October 2003 - 05:20 PM

Were it not for a screw up with the american publisher, I would be happily frying alien right now! :sigh:

If I have a single error brought on by a bad cd, Mr. Sparkles if going to go to town on trisynergy.

If you don't know, My. Sparkles is my special flamethrower!
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#37 j'ordos

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Posted 08 October 2003 - 05:45 PM

Wasn't 'Mister Sparkle' a Japanese washing product with Homer (Simpson's) face on the box? :naughty:
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#38 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 08 October 2003 - 07:13 PM

Yes, but it is also my special flamethrower! :psychosanta:
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#39 Deimos

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 06:44 AM

I definitely agree with the Baldur's Gate style portraits for this one.  If we were a bunch of highly paid professionals like the aftermath guys, we would be doing as much 3D modeling as possible, and I don't fault them for going that route, but as we're a bunch of unpaid slobs, we should definitely focus on our strengths, and I think concept art will be a big one.  We should throw around the stuff like candy.

Anyway, yeah, aftermath looks alright.  I don't know if I'll buy it, but I'll definitely...obtain it...somehow.

-Fred the Goat

Hey, speak for yourself. I may not be getting paid for this but I'm no slob :)

We could have modelled 3d portraits but they look crap in most games. About the only games protraits look good in are Starcraft and Bladurs gate. Even the mighty WC3 doesnt look as good as SC's portraits.

And anyway we are doing as much 3d modelling as possible, it just the process of game design to have the concept stuff first. Even aftermath went through that stage ;)

Don't be a cheapskate, its not the most expensive game... go buy it.

#40 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 09:11 AM

Just buy it from somewhere where you can take it back within a week, play it and if you don't like it take it back. Don't be so tight :D

#41 Maverick

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 11:39 AM

Can we beat aftermath?!?! What kind of communist propaganda post is this? Of COURSE we can beat aftermath! If only for the fact that their game is out and we are still in Alpha testing. We have so much time left to work and tweak that their game will be old news by the time we're wrapping things up. So until I see screenshots of Aftermath 2 (which will have to be in 4-d) there is no reason to get all worked up about the game. It is similar in concept, but because of the staggered timeframe, only a handful of people will remember aftermath when our game is released. Don't sweat the small stuff guys. -_-

-Mav

(by the way, i don't think they could get 4-d screenshots)

#42 Aosar

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 01:02 PM

by the way, i don't think they could get 4-d screenshots


IIRC Humans can't even imagine what 4-D would be like, or more accurately picture or perseve it...

And I highly dowd that this project will take that long, but then again, I hope this project will never be fully "complete," but only going trough the version numbers towards higher and higher gaming pleasure into a true gaming nirvana! or something like that...

Edited by Aosar, 09 October 2003 - 01:04 PM.

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#43 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 01:20 PM

Nerdvana! :)

Seriously though, we will most likely beat aftermath for several reasons:

1. Aftermath costs money, where xeno is free.
2. AM is out, xeno is coming out in a year or two (more time to tweak, as has been said)
3. AM from what I hear, has a rather difficult interface, we won't.
4. The AM team needs a focus group (like any good game company) to see what the fans want. We don't, that is the beauty of fan games.
5. AM can have patches that add certain new features, but these are still small changes. Xeno will implement major changes after version 1, up until version omega.
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#44 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 01:49 PM

2. AM is out, xeno is coming out in a year or two (more time to tweak, as has been said)

:blink: Err, year or two yeah :erm:

#45 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 02:19 PM

It shouldn't take too long to do it right? Provided we start cracking now...

:whip: :whip: :whip:
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#46 Maverick

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 02:23 PM

From what I've read, their "unique" gamplay style mixing turn based and real time combat sounds a whole lot like the real-time option in apocalypse, but i can't play the game so i don't really know for sure.

In all honesty though, their game won't even be considered competition for our game when we release a full version. The biggest reason is the time frame difference and the fact that despite their best efforts, their game is not capable of appealing to large audiences for long term because they don't have multiplayer. It's all in good fun to play through a game and enjoy it for single player, but multiplayer is what really adds replay value. (how may people played starcraft single player campaigns over and over again? what about half life in single player time and time again? now how about starcraft, being like 5 years old and STILL have 200,000+ people on B.net last sunday? does counter-strike ring a bell to anyone?) Without multiplayer they'll be long forgotten when we release a full version, some comparison will be made, but that's it.

You may say that we don't have multiplayer either, but the benefit we have is open-source code and dedicated programmers. So if we, or any other group would like to make a multiplayer version(s) its not as impossible as adding it to a game like AM.

And thats just the tip of the iceberg between our game and AM. I'll play AM if i can get a box that can handle it, but there is just gonna be too big of a gap between them and us for our games to be competition.

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#47 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 02:30 PM

You are, of course, quite right.

Personally I will enjoy both! Xeno when it is released, and UFO when damn US publisher gets off their azzes and publishes the game!
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#48 Aosar

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Posted 10 October 2003 - 08:27 AM

Well, first I take back what I said about "giantism" earlier. The game's models don't seem to suffer from that, atleast not from the high angle I usually view them.
Second the interphase is tricky, but you get used to it. Third, well, there isn't a third really...
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#49 Fred the Goat

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Posted 10 October 2003 - 08:55 PM

It shouldn't take too long to do it right? Provided we start cracking now...

Er...yeah, I'm uh...I'm pretty sure we can have it out by...um...thursday. Yeah, thursday should do it. :unsure:

I still say concept art portraits! If we have one good face artist, we should put them to work. I guess that's a big "if" though, faces are hard. But really, I think cool concept art will be much appreciated with the kind of mad stylish people who will be downloading our game. :boy: :sprite:

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#50 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 12 October 2003 - 08:02 AM

Well, much of the assets are done. We only need the code. we have a good part of the ctd entries done, and some of the artwork.
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