Judeau Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 i've managed to get a little system in for calculating relative height of the impact to the charachteraffected by crouching as well should i implement that on the current source?and is it an useful feature? i could implement feet doing less damage, and so oni've also come up with a different armor formulaand light stunning damage from normal damage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nachtwolf Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 (edited) i've managed to get a little system in for calculating relative height of the impact to the charachteraffected by crouching as well should i implement that on the current source?and is it an useful feature? i could implement feet doing less damage, and so oni've also come up with a different armor formulaand light stunning damage from normal damage I like the idea of location damage. Did you finetune the aiming too (vertical)? cause firing at a soldier which is on a step or object is sometimes hard to do since you have to aim at a given level and either shoot too high or too low. Anyway, I think you should talk about this to the magical keeper of the source... Serge. Edited February 9, 2006 by nachtwolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sporb Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 could we add head armour then? i hate it when some fool gets a fluke headshot when hw was aiming for me feet. I'd love to see a manual aim style introduced where you can move the cursor with 100% accuracy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbes Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 (edited) could we add head armour then? i hate it when some fool gets a fluke headshot when hw was aiming for me feet. I'd love to see a manual aim style introduced where you can move the cursor with 100% accuracy There are no headshots. Although units have heads the only places you hit are front, sides, back and under. @Nachtwolf: Precise aiming isn't meant to improve the accuracy. No matter how much you point the shot it may still miss the target completely. Edited February 10, 2006 by Hobbes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nachtwolf Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 @Nachtwolf: Precise aiming isn't meant to improve the accuracy. No matter how much you point the shot it may still miss the target completely. Yup but if you aim in the middle of the torso your odds are 50% better than if you aim over the head or at the feet. It's a matter of exposed area, not a matter of weapon accuracy. Let me explain : Let's say a soldier is exactly between two levels (1 and 2).. You can aim right on top of his head (middle of level 2), or right at his feet (middle of level 1)... either choice, if you miss by 2 mm in the wrong direction (up or down), you miss. Now this soldier is on the ground, with no elevation (normal level 1) You aim at his level (middle of level 1) so you actually aim at the center of his torso, if you miss by 2mm in any direction, you hit him anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbes Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 You're right, I didn't read carefully the entire thread and thought you were speaking about something else. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sporb Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 But if there is no location damage , whats this for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nachtwolf Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 But if there is no location damage , whats this for?And what is it, may I ask... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sporb Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 it appears at first glance, to be a manual aim system for manually selecting a body part for your soldier to aim for. Im not entirely sure if it really does anything but it's there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nachtwolf Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Ok I think this feature is a bit too well hidden... Let's get some usability in there boys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbes Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 (edited) This is what the readme_en file of the beta says: Left SHIFT Allows precise aiming if held down while ordering a soldier to shoot with the left mouse button. It will show a box with squares ordered like this: 3 6 9 12 2 5 8 11 1 4 7 10 The order reflects the vertical disposition of the unit/object inside the target box: 1 corresponds to the lowest level of the square you're firing at, usually it is occupied with the floor, going upwards until 12, which is the highest level. Basically precise aiming is used when part of a target is blocked by an object/wall. For instance, when a unit is standing on the lower part of a stair if the shot heads for the lower portion (1-5 squares) it will hit the stair instead of the legs. If you use precise aiming the boxes will show not only the 3D shape of the unit but also the shape of the object, so it allows you to fire at level that isn't occupied also by terrain (on this case, squares 7-12, for instance).But precise aiming doesn't increase the accuracy. Even if the shot hits the target box it might miss and hit the bottom squares, so it is better to either use snap/aimed to make sure it will hit the unit instead of the terrain. Another use for precise aiming is when a target is on 2nd level at some distance and you are firing from first level with a wall halfway inbetween. To avoid the shot from hitting the wall you can aim at the top of the unit. This also applies to when both shooter and target are at the same level and there are obstacles that half cover the path to the target. You will need some guessing to figure out how tall the object is in order for the shot to avoid it. And finally, you can use precise aiming to easily blast holes through fences. Stand close to the fence and place the aiming cursor on the box containing the square or, if the unit is already standing on that box, aim at the box to where you want to move. Choose the 2-3 boxes and the unit will fire downwards, clearing the fence. The readme_en doesn't cover this in detail but it is only meant to explain the basics. Any suggestions, other than me including this on my strategy guide? Edited February 10, 2006 by Hobbes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sporb Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 It'd be neat if we could somhow improve these features for certain weapons. Giving them special abilities if you will. Perhaps a weapon with a laser mounted would have a permanant LOF line while a scoped weapon could have more controll over the area the bullet will hit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judeau Posted February 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 (edited) people, i tested if it works before i postedi can add different effects for causing different parts damage for example shooting in the foot could decrease energy/staminahead could decrease TU , and accuracy + add stun damagearm could decrease current TUs and max TUs( breaking a bone usually causes someone to be less dextrous )stomach could cause loss of morale by a larger amount this would of course work from a certain level of damage, so armor defends you from such problems of course i can add damage modifiers, so hitting feet and arms does less damage then chest, and head does moregimme some other suggestions i've also managed to make a skin ability modifierlike : mutons get more strength and health, sectoids have higher accuracy but less health and strength such thingsgimme your ideas and more control over where it hits? maybe a higher accuracy the shift version, i've always found it an interesting function, and i though it actually increased damage depending on area >.<and when i found it didn't , i immediately added that possibility Edited February 10, 2006 by Judeau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sporb Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 (edited) i like the sound of what you are suggesting Judeau. Ive always thought certain skins deserved different stat limits. Mutons should have more strength and Zombie should have a huge amount of health but very little stamina and aim. I also think it'd be cool if certain weapons had special effects associated with them. A bullet for instance, would cause bleeding or fatal wounds while plasma would do more damage but seal a wound shut via heat. A heavy bomb wouldnt maim as much as a frag grenade would but it would add stun damage too. Edited February 10, 2006 by Sporb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serge Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Something like this is also suggested here: http://ufo2k.lxnt.info/mantis/view.php?id=195 (and check related issues too). Forum is good for discussion, but unfortunately forum threads tend to sink and are quite hard to find later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judeau Posted February 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Something like this is also suggested here: http://ufo2k.lxnt.info/mantis/view.php?id=195 (and check related issues too). Forum is good for discussion, but unfortunately forum threads tend to sink and are quite hard to find later.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> i seei think i'll implement the locational damage and ailments on the current revision if you have any other features people really want, do telli like the things i'm hearing so far though serge, could you post what things should be implemented here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judeau Posted February 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 (edited) Headshots don't actually really work in real life. You're more likely to aim for the body as you have a higher chance of hitting.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Unless your a sniper.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> or knifing someone in the head/ standing a few paces away right, implemented status effects shot into the arms:TU count by 10 , minimum 20 drops weapon from that arm decreases strength by 5 with a minimum of 10multiplies damage by 0.75 shot into the legs:decreases energy by 10, minimum 20multiplies damage by 0.35 shooting head:multiplies damage by 2.00decreases accuracy by halfstunning damage = damage / 2 + 10 shooting anywhere causes a loss of maxhp and some normal hp + the pierce getting throughhead : 20 damage, half of which to maxhealthtorso : 6 damage, half of which to maxhealtharms : 2 damage, half of which to maxhealthlegs : 4 damage, half of which to maxhealth maxhealth minimum = 10 i implemented the maxhp decreases for when medkits come ingetting shot into the head can't be easily fixed to 100% >.< =============================================== as there isn't really a topic in the bug tracker,need me to make one? Edited February 10, 2006 by Judeau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbes Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Judeau, how would damage affect armor in your system? Is it similar to the method used by the original game? This page of the UFOpaedia (a wiki for X-COM) might be useful because it describes the X-COM system for injuries: Fatal Wounds There's a topic on bugtracker concerning Damage and Race Modifiers that describes the current damage system and what X-COM used. You can see it here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judeau Posted February 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 (edited) Judeau, how would damage affect armor in your system? Is it similar to the method used by the original game? This page of the UFOpaedia (a wiki for X-COM) might be useful because it describes the X-COM system for injuries: Fatal Wounds There's a topic on bugtracker concerning Damage and Race Modifiers that describes the current damage system and what X-COM used. You can see it here.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> the wound causing is only done from a pierce threshold float armorcount; armorcount = *armor; if (armorcount >= pierce * 0.5) { if( armorcount > pierce )*armor -= pierce * 0.33 * ( 1 / ( armorcount / pierce )) + 5; else *armor -= armorcount * 0.25 * ( 1 / ( armorcount / pierce )) + 5; if( armorcount > pierce )pierce -= pierce * ( armorcount / pierce ) * 1.25 - 3; else pierce -= pierce * ( armorcount / pierce ) * 1.5 - 10; if( *armor > armorcount )*armor = 0; if( pierce < 0 )pierce = 0; ud.CurStun += pierce + 3; return hitloc; } pierce -= pierce * 0.9 * ( armorcount / pierce ); *armor -= pierce * 0.25; if( *armor > armorcount )*armor = 0; if( pierce < 0 )pierce = 0; ud.CurStun += pierce * 1.5; return hitloc; Edited February 10, 2006 by Judeau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judeau Posted February 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 (edited) ... Because of course, Wikipedia is a far more accurate source than military training. You fool.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> bloody heck, stop the bickering will you?locational damage is a nice touchand having headshots, low chance, but critical damage is a nice feature no need to tell me they aren't very useful unless your target is keeping someone hostage also, when trying to tell someone they're wrong in your opiniondon't be a bitch about it Eep: Wrong. Even snipers will normally go for the trunk. This is because the head is a tiny target, and if you miss and alert the target it will be hard to shoot them again. You fail. the eep: wrong and you fail are childish and bitchy Edited February 11, 2006 by Judeau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Blehm 98] Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 1) Has anyone ever heard of 'accidental' head shots, where you are shooting and happen to hit the head? There you go, i don't see why those wouldn't do more damage, regardless of whether or not it was on purpose.2) In many cases snipers do shoot at the head, as the head is about a fourth the size of the body, but as long as the target isn't moving too fast (which makes just about any shot with a sniper rifle impossible, unless you are very good) the head isn't all that difficult to hit. Once you get to longer ranges, or if you have a smaller caliber rifle, bullet drop will start to come into affect, making shots to the head very difficult and risky. This is because it is very difficult to shoot a sniper rifle with any speed, and if a critical target is only wounded, chances are that he won't get another chance. Now, with an infantry rifle, such as the M-16, M4, etc., shooting for the head is rather silly, and pretty difficult to do when three or four shots to the body would do the same thing. However, as a sharpshooter it is possible to shoot for the head There you go, my view on the head shot thingy, pointless an argument as it is, and to let you know i say locational damage is good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kratos Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 (edited) Blood Angel and Sectopod your posts have been deleted due to flaming. Edited February 12, 2006 by Kratos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judeau Posted February 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 (edited) http://ufo2000.lxnt.info/mantis/view.php?id=469 there we go, give suggestions for additional hit locationsadditional racial damage modifiers are appreciated as well Edited February 13, 2006 by Judeau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 When you look at it, it looks like separate body parts organized in a strange way, 1 being the feet, 12 being the very top of the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judeau Posted February 15, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 (edited) When you look at it, it looks like separate body parts organized in a strange way, 1 being the feet, 12 being the very top of the head.<{POST_SNAPBACK}>explain a bit more clearly what you meanas far as i see the head is from 9-12legs are from 1-4/5torso in between Edited February 15, 2006 by Judeau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbes Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 explain a bit more clearly what you meanas far as i see the head is from 9-12legs are from 1-4/5torso in between I've done some checking concerning the average human body proportions because when I looked at those you mentioned they looked odd. Body height = 7 headsHip height = 4 heads (including pelvis = 1 head) I don't think the game uses those proportions but a more close relation (for human units) would be:Legs = 1-6Pelvis (groin) = 6Torso = 7-10Head = 11-12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exo2000 Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 As far as I can tell, an armoured head tops off at 11 when crouching, 12 when standing. A standing soldier will have the tops of their shoulders included in 10. The center of the head should be 11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nachtwolf Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 BTW Judeau I noticed all the Judeau-assigned issues in the bug tracker, make sure you don't blow up with all this programming load And if you need usability advices, my PM inbox is open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judeau Posted February 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 (edited) BTW Judeau I noticed all the Judeau-assigned issues in the bug tracker, make sure you don't blow up with all this programming load And if you need usability advices, my PM inbox is open.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> heh, don't worryi've got HE blocking working*everyone goes O_O* only thing to fix is a sync error, and i think i know the cause of thatthese assigned tasks aren't even that hard btw, add [email protected] to your msn, far easier then pming things i can fix today : Throwing grenades: indicate obstacles in the path of the throw, Objects/Walls don't protect from explosions(without sync) things that have been done : Request for Better Damage System/Allocation, Strength and throwing, Damage and Race Modifiers, Race Dependant Statistical Mins & Maximums, locational damage, bugged death cries of snakemen, ethereals, and floaters other fixes i've done : stun damage displaying in barchartfix i intend to do today : the explosion hit direction however all these fixes aren't getting merged until the official beta is wihout CRC/NID errors, as you can understand. so many features can mess up the bug finding however i do have my own build, so if you wanna test pm me, or add unto msn Edited February 16, 2006 by Judeau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judeau Posted April 15, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 (edited) i am sorry to announce that i lost my experimental sources, only thing remaining is a few dated diff files i might try and recode the features i had in, as i still have a workable exe(and knowledge of the sources), and i have a fairly good memory of what solutions i used don't expect any releases from me anytme soon. don't worry too much though, i had it bugless with true grenade launchers, locational damage, improved armour, true explosionsjudeau__s_experimental.rar Edited April 15, 2006 by Judeau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbes Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 i am sorry to announce that i lost my experimental sources, only thing remaining is a few dated diff files I still have the .exe you sent me a while ago on my desktop. Would that help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judeau Posted April 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 i am sorry to announce that i lost my experimental sources, only thing remaining is a few dated diff files<{POST_SNAPBACK}> I still have the .exe you sent me a while ago on my desktop. Would that help?<{POST_SNAPBACK}> afraid not, can't get the sources from the exe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kratos Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Not even decompilation? Damn. It's ok though, all of us that tested your stuff know you worked hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judeau Posted April 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2006 (edited) Not even decompilation? Damn. It's ok though, all of us that tested your stuff know you worked hard. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> well stuff i got to work in the lost version :loc damage and different effectsexplosions* hmm, i coded this too quickly and carelessly, my thoughts on this are that i'll use the same basic system, but i'll add some more error checking*throwing/launching paths displayeddouble-wielding weapons of the same typelauncher weaponry* i had the range, and angle of firing the weapon defined in lua *racial stats*although limited, i did have specific modifiers against types of damage dependant on armor/race*throwing range limited by weight/strength/throwing skill, and the grenades hitting the "ceiling" of a level was fixed thank god i have good memory on the methods i used, and several posts with code i used in them, along with one VERY useful diff heh, i'll be happy to work my donkey off soon exams are approaching, almost done with school, next week a holliday, then 2 weeks to the exams i'm looking forward to the exams i'll redo lots of stuff, and do it even better i've just been inspired by seeing the rate at which blender bugfixes are commited Edited April 26, 2006 by Judeau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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