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#1 Simaldeff

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Posted 17 July 2003 - 03:17 AM

those Idea might have actually been discussed but I didn't find them on the forum so sorry if I'm repeating someone's else idea :

ok in the original X-COM game the weapon were :

Humans traditional guns -> LaserW -> Plasma -> Fusion

ok now here what I would like you to take i consideration :

Humans Rifle <- will post others idea on it
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Laser <- Idem
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.Magnetic acceleration <- took the idea from a A.Shwarzy movie (i thk it's the "Eraser"
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Plasma
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Fusion
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antimater Rifle <- my own Idea

ok : what r the . . . for ??? well I was thinking that there is a lot of weapon that can combine two or more tech like a gun that launch a laser (to pierce the armor) and then a material progectil (to kill after the armor got pierced) ... or stuff like that.

What's Magnetic acceleration ???
Well in the movie it use metal projectil that got accelerated by a particule accelerator (like the one that are used for research now ... but they are actually 10kilometer ... miles and miles ... long) and they can go as fast as 90% of light speed .. leat? plus the fact that it got a mass give him a lot of power (u know the famous E = mc^2 ... if u want I can explain later)

Antimater Rifle ???
Well it's THE ARMOR ANIHILATOR u shot an antimater projectile so what apen when antimater and mater meet ??? it become light and both "disappear" so no explosion possible (actually the photon emition can be quite powerfull) but high precision shouting and killing ... I need more research to give u precision.

what do u think about it ?

well bye

#2 exio82

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Posted 17 July 2003 - 08:02 AM

What's Magnetic acceleration ???
Well in the movie it use metal projectil that got accelerated by a particule accelerator (like the one that are used for research now ... but they are actually 10kilometer ... miles and miles ... long) and they can go as fast as 90% of light speed .. leat? plus the fact that it got a mass give him a lot of power (u know the famous E = mc^2 ... if u want I can explain later)

I studied some EM physics.. a magnetic field able to accelerate something like a bullet at 90% light speed in that short space (not 10 Km) would be so powerful to move every object elecrically-charged in a large area (a dozen meters or more).
We can say the weapon is shielded in some magic way so no EM field can exit from it.
Remember too that if you pull a bullet, the same force applied to it pulls the weapon (and you) on the opposite direction. So this is going to be a heavy weapon! OR we can use bullets very very small that pierce everything..
like the Railgun in quake3.
OR again we don't acelerate bullets to 90% light speed... but much less. Remember that a magnetic weapon is absolutely silent since there's not any explosion.
I agree with the magnetic accelerated weapons, I'm only trying to explaint it scientifically.

Antimater Rifle ???
Well it's THE ARMOR ANIHILATOR u shot an antimater projectile so what apen when antimater and mater meet ??? it become light and both "disappear" so no explosion possible (actually the photon emition can be quite powerfull) but high precision shouting and killing ... I need more research to give u precision.

What I know about it is pretty different.... I read somewhere that if matter and anti-matter meets, after a cofee break ^_^ they annihilate and generate a huge energy that is very dangerous and may generate an explosion. I have to read more about this I am not sure.

Just for information:
If a car of 5 tons crashes on a wall at 100Km/h, the cinetic energy is
K = 1/2 * m * v^2 = 1/2 * 5,000,000 * (27.78 m/s) ^ 2 = about 2 Giga Joule (GJ)
That energy is the one which makes the car become flatted

If 1 gram of antimatter meets 1 gram of matter (total = 2g) the energy is
E = m * C^2 = 2 * (300.000.000)^2 = about 180.000.000 Giga Joule (GJ)
and it is concentrated in a sqare mm instead of 1 square meter.
We have to use something like 1 microgram or nanogram of antimatter to avoid to become very tanned B)

exio82
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#3 Breunor

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Posted 17 July 2003 - 11:32 AM

In addition to all the comments above, the weapon would need some type of containment field to keep the 'ammo' from touching any part of the weapon, otherwise the effect would happen to the user. Also consider that air consists of matter right? So as soon as the anti matter leaves the containment field and vacuum within the weapon, it contacts air and detonates. Anti matter is in theory out in space, not touching matter for the most part (sorry if that's totally off, haven't watched the Science channel recently...). On our planet the gravitational forces pull all this matter in tight, preventing you from using an antimatter weapon I guess. And if you can make something that nasty, then armor would be made that has directional magnetic fields, which could repel any projectile approaching beyond a certain speed (Dune force fields I guess).

#4 Jesus Escariut

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Posted 17 July 2003 - 03:47 PM

all that antimatter got me thinking about absolute 0, since antimatter is in space and cant touch matter , yet space is also full of matter dust and what not, how can it exist except in theory? same goes for absolute zero, in theory when anything achieves 0 it would cease to exist... or explode.. who knows... what happens when an atom stops moving... yet atoms will always create heat as long as they can move thats why the coldest places in space are always 2 degrees higher then absolute zero....

#5 exio82

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Posted 17 July 2003 - 03:56 PM

I agree with Breunor, but we can prevent the anti-matter to hit air. We can close the anti-matter core into a vacuum bullet, built with a magnetic material, which maintain the core suspended in the middle.
In the same way an experimental nuclear fusion central is maintaing suspended the plasma in its chamber, somewhere in the world. It is experimental now. We can imagine this will be easier in the future.
The bullet will be accelerated by a magnetic field (which accelerate the bullet and the core togheter). This cause if we shot it by a detonation the explosion may be too hard and the core will touch the bullet.
When the bullet hits the target, the hit will stop it, but for the inertia principle the core will hit the bullet.

If only could be so simple to project an anti-matter weapon ^_^

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#6 Jesus Escariut

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Posted 17 July 2003 - 04:04 PM

I agree with Breunor, but we can prevent the anti-matter to hit air. We can close the anti-matter core into a vacuum bullet, built with a magnetic material, which maintain the core suspended in the middle.
In the same way an experimental nuclear fusion central is maintaing suspended the plasma in its chamber, somewhere in the world. It is experimental now. We can imagine this will be easier in the future.
The bullet will be accelerated by a magnetic field (which accelerate the bullet and the core togheter). This cause if we shot it by a detonation the explosion may be too hard and the core will touch the bullet.
When the bullet hits the target, the hit will stop it, but for the inertia principle the core will hit the bullet.

If only could be so simple to project an anti-matter weapon ^_^

exio82



so whats stopping the magnetic launch from detonating it, ever ride on a magnetic launched roller coaster?, you and the coaster both take off but you still get thrown back... and the force of the launch would be greater then the collision, since it would lose speed over distance... its a good idea.. im just not seeing how it works :huh: ... maybe im just not understanding it right

#7 exio82

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Posted 17 July 2003 - 04:37 PM

the point is that a normal rifle trows the bullet by a very powerful instant explosion. A magnetic rifle has a long cane and the bullet is gradually accelerated in all the cane length by the Magnetic field. so the force needed to speed up the bullet is greater than the one used on a normal rifle, but it is distributed in more time
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#8 Simaldeff

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Posted 17 July 2003 - 04:49 PM

Actually I was think a more rought thing :
Using some of the antimater-mater reaction to shout the antimater out of the weapon will give it REALLY high speed (dont know exactully how much) ... plus the antimater wont suddenly ALL disapear I mean ... let's imagine a "ball" of antimater, while it goes at a certain speed through atmosphere it'll gradually consume itself so it will reach a certain point before disappearing ... so the bigger and fastest the ball is the longer it'll go ... is it possible (got to research it).

Secondly I thk antimater could be controlled to be only anti O (Oxygen) or anti C (carbon) or somthing else that only is present in some alien's body or armor so that it wont generate reaction while touching the atmosphere ... 'causean atom made from 2 antiproton and 2 antielectron will be an antihelium atom right ???

PLUS the fact that this thing is a Sci-fi GAME ... a GAME ... it can make it possible.

so ? what about it

The about the pull-back effect of the magnetic accelerated weapon can be firstly developped as a TankOONLY SuppaDuppaHeavy weapon and later I was thinking like making the discover about and 0-inertial technology I saw something like that in a second rate sci-fi movie of 80's ... dont remember the name ... but I will search it ... ok bye

#9 j'ordos

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Posted 17 July 2003 - 05:08 PM

In laboratories anti-matter has actually been created already, but the greatest problem with it is indeed storage. IIRC it could be used as fuel for a spaceship, because when it comes in contact with matter it explodes, generating huge amounts of energy at once, so I don't think it's possible to start with a large lump and end with a smaller one, it will all explode at once. I do believe (also IIRC) that magnetic fields could be used to store anti-matter. Maybe the rifle generates a magnetic field to contain the ammo, and when the trigger is pulled something creates a "hole" in the air, some sort of vacuum tube straight out of the barrel with a semi-endless range. The anti-matter round is than launched through it, and since it travels in vacuum it won't hit anything, until it reaches a solid object.
And if this doesn't work, something else can be thought of :wink:
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#10 exio82

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Posted 17 July 2003 - 05:26 PM

I agree with j'ordos :wink:
You remembered me a book I read some time ago, where a fantastic space ship gained energy from stars with a thing called "collector". The working principle was that it creates magically a canal between itself and the star, like the vacuum you described, but instead of making it empty it makes it an energy-conductor. So the ship charges its giant batteries directly with the star energy.
The thing can be reversed too, creating the canal on a target ship and throwing lots and lots of energy inside it.
The other ship then is heated till it melts. It's similar to the laser used in industries to cut the iron, but it can be used also to gain energy from an hot thing.
You cannot teach something to someone. You can only help it to discover it within of himself - Galileo Galilei

#11 Jesus Escariut

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Posted 17 July 2003 - 06:08 PM

okay i think i got this worked out....

to achieve antimatter weapons you need the following researched

-magnetic
-laser
-antimatter

the magnetic field contains the anitmatter, the laser is like a prep shot that neutralizes any particles on the path of the antimatter (also acts as a targetting) when the anitmatter is fired it travels along the path of the laser... to balance this their can be the occasional "critical error" where if a man holding the antimatter gun is shot with something powerful (grenade, heavy plasma) it could rupture one of the magnetic fields thus causing a nice big BOOM!... :naughty:

#12 Jesus Escariut

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Posted 17 July 2003 - 08:55 PM

okay i think i got it, i think it was in unreal tourney that they have a weapon called a TAG rifle, it basically shoots a laser that marks a spot for a satelite to fire a super weapon at, well instead of satelites and that crap, why not we do this

soldier fires antimatter gun first turn it shoots a marker laser at a target, laser clears path for antimatter. Next turn the antimatter is released. accuracy is 100%, BUT.. it takes 2 turns to fires, and the solider uses up 2 turns worth of time units to use it, so u fire it at an alien ship to make an alternate entrance or what not, im sure you guys will think of something :D

#13 Simaldeff

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Posted 17 July 2003 - 10:31 PM

Here is my Idea ... so basically for an primitive Antimater Rifle u have :
1 - the laser that go out
2 - the antimater that follow

so let's make it a SNIPER ONLY Weapon the only 2 option are Throwing and Accurate Shot ... because if u take 2 turn to fire laser and antimater the vacum might disappear before u use the antimater

I was thinking that the antimater was something that human can develop even after Alien Highest Tech ... 'cause Elenium is still used for fission-reaction right?

Plus we can also do Cold-fusion and then antimater
Cold-fusion is used to produve enought energy for then produce antimater and magnetic fields (to store antimater)

I'm currently searching for a ScienceMag that had an special issue on nuclear phisic it might contain something about it ... see ya later

#14 Miklatov

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Posted 23 July 2004 - 07:30 AM

**Oops, ignore this post! seems it's already been said upon a bit of further reading! Great minds....? Sorry about that. :rolleyes: **

Would antimatter weaopnry not be better suited for internal detonation.

i.e., A hollow projectile (made of matter of course! :) ) with a vaccum inside containing antimatter. The projectile has an internal magnetic field so that the matter of the bullet and the antimatter do not interact. Obviously a fairly large and bloody expensive bullet!

Upon firing the projectile, which could be armour piercing for arguments sake, a signal could be sent to it making it drop the magnetic field upon impact/ remotely at firers will / after 1 second after leaving chamber of gun. Hopefully at this point the bullet would be inside the alien or at the very least, stuck in his armour :D .


It would all be a bit like how the T-1000 is killed at the end of Terminator 2, except more explosive!
:explode:

Sorry if this is obvious and been stated already. I am at work and didn't have time to read all the posts. - Liking what I have read though.

Edited by Miklatov, 23 July 2004 - 07:37 AM.


#15 Paladin

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Posted 29 July 2004 - 09:16 AM

Well, the anti-matter projectile already exists in-game, it's called a Blaster Bomb :LOL:
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#16 blind pilot

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Posted 29 July 2004 - 06:40 PM

correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't anti-matter only neutralize its specific matter counterpart? like 1 anti-neutron reacting with 1 neutron creating a freaking large amount of energy?
but neutrons are pretty small compared to atoms, and the chance of an anti-neutron hitting a neutron isn't that big, unless you spread a lot of anti-neutrons.
in that case, however, you'd have some "collateral" antimatter reactions all over the place, since some anti-neutrons will fly for a while till they find a neutron to react with.

does anyone know if there is an atomic structure ( anti-neutrons, anti-protons, anti-electrons) in anti-matter?

#17 Tuoppi

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Posted 30 July 2004 - 12:59 AM

Anti-matter has similar atomic structure as normal matter. Anti-hydrogen has already been made in CERN.

You got it right, but there are so much atoms even in thin air that the anti-matter particles would spread only a few inches wide, the problem that concerns me is the huge gamma radiation released.

#18 Paladin

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Posted 30 July 2004 - 07:29 AM

Yeah, well, that and the fact that even if the Blaster bomb only have a few atoms worth of anti-mater, the resulting explosion would wipe out he entire battlescape...

(Btw, whole alternate universes could be made of anti-mater, but if we were to step inside one... BAOUM... oops, there goes a galaxy or two...)

Actually, aside from the reversed electric polarity in antimater, there's not much way we can distinguish the two appart... Incidentely, lightning strikes would really go from the clouds to the ground in that kind of anti-universe, instead of from the ground up in our universe... :LOL:
The polarity reversal is what allows us to separate antimater from matter in a praticle accelerator, since under a magnetic field they'll spin in the reverse direction than normal matter...
:D
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#19 centurion

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Posted 30 July 2004 - 07:37 AM

correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't anti-matter only neutralize its specific matter counterpart? like 1 anti-neutron reacting with 1 neutron creating a freaking large amount of energy?

Almost, in fact, it's quarks recombining with their counterparts; so, say, a neutron and an antiproton would still produce annihilation apart from creating not terribly stable middle-weight particles (which would decay producing additional energy and all kind of funny stuff).

but neutrons are pretty small compared to atoms, and the chance of an anti-neutron hitting a neutron isn't that big, unless you spread a lot of anti-neutrons.

Antimatter would consist not of "bare" antineutrons and antiprotons, but of complete "antiatoms" consisting of a nucleus of antiprotons and antineutrons, and a positron layer structure (or maybe same ingredients in a plasma state), since otherwise there would be too much electrostatic repulsion going on between the particles. Hence, these "antiatoms" would collide with normal atoms (with about the same frequency as normal molecules do, within minuscule distances), annihilate their electron/positron layers and then proceed with the nuclei, which would be by that time unshielded from the electrical attraction between them.
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#20 Paladin

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Posted 30 July 2004 - 10:42 AM

I might add that Positrons are attracted by Protons, they're not merely neutrons cruising along, hoping to cross paths with a nuclei, altough even that is very easy...
If I remember Rutherford'S experiment around 1910, he used a sheet of gold 400 atoms thick, and it was the only way he could have most of the Alpha particles (He++) going through without being influenced by the gold atoms, thus proving that the nuclei is actually a very small part of the atom...
Otherwise, if you get more than a few micron of matter, it's very hard for matter not to collide, particularly in solids... (We don't go through the floor,s as far as I'm concerned) :D

Hence, Antimatter would touch matter in no time if we let it loose... Gaseous molecules exist too...

Anyway, it's always lots of fun to theorise to death about exotic materials :LOL:
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#21 blind pilot

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Posted 31 July 2004 - 05:49 PM

like Tuoppi said, I don't exactly like the Idea of gamma radiation or free neutrons swirling around, could shorten your trooper's life expectancy dramatically...
ahh, nothing like a litte scientific conversation among guys, right everyone? :)

#22 EmoteControl

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Posted 15 July 2005 - 10:09 PM

Still, if we feel like going with the "ultimate alien plot' idea such as was used in Interceptor or Terror from the Deep, a five-ton antimatter missile created by the aliens would be a good way for them to destroy the Earth.