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#1 Shinzon

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Posted 07 January 2005 - 07:20 PM

wow great stories...

i didnt realise i spent 3 hours reading them O.o

looking foward to some more of them =b

#2 stewart

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Posted 07 January 2005 - 08:45 PM

I read hobbes 300k fiction. The whole thing. Now he owes me. :devillaugh:
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#3 Hobbes

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Posted 07 January 2005 - 10:25 PM

I read hobbes 300k fiction.†† The whole thing.† Now he owes me. :devillaugh:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


OMG! I sold my soul to the DEVIL! :devillaugh:

PS - Thanks for the forum :D

Edited by Hobbes, 07 January 2005 - 10:30 PM.


#4 Shinzon

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Posted 09 January 2005 - 08:45 PM

woa im reading your novel and wow... i bet u can make a movie out of it :P

#5 Hobbes

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Posted 10 January 2005 - 08:03 AM

I've discussed that idea before and the bottom line is that the novel is too big to fit on a film. If you finish reading it you might see what I mean because there are too many subplots going on.

#6 mikker

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Posted 10 January 2005 - 09:12 AM

I really enjoyed TUM. Best fanfic for X-com ever.

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#7 Hobbes

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Posted 10 January 2005 - 09:18 AM

I really enjoyed TUM. Best fanfic for X-com ever.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


The best X-Com fanfic I ever read was Ben Fischer's Kansai Arc which, unfortunately isn't available on the web anymore. :(

#8 BattleKnight

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Posted 11 January 2005 - 11:56 AM

Hey, I just took a quick look on the first chapter of your fanfic. And it is marvelous. I willed myself to come here and post a question :

Will you finish your story about TFTD (Abyssal is the title, no?)?

#9 Hobbes

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Posted 11 January 2005 - 12:19 PM

I still have on my plans to finish Abyssal so that I can start writing the third and last fan fic of the series but for now I am concentrating more on map designing for both the original UFO and UFO2000.

#10 Jenny

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Posted 11 January 2005 - 05:33 PM

I read TUM too, great story. It's the only X-com fan fiction I ever read, so I can't really compare them to others, though.
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#11 Hobbes

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Posted 11 January 2005 - 07:18 PM

You guys (and gal) have to read Kansai Arc. I remember that when I started writing TUM I had just read it plus another one made by a guy named Fernando that is still around on the web. Fernando's Story is incomplete and it turns away from UFO on the plotline but it has great pieces of military sci-fi (the terror attack on Lima or the ship attack at the beginning). But Kansai Arc in terms of characters and overall theme is amazing.
Hmmm, I think I will try again emailing someone again to see if I can get it because I am curious to see how much it might have influenced my story. Cross your fingers.

#12 Hobbes

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Posted 12 January 2005 - 05:25 AM

Success! :D

Ladies and Gentlemen, here's Ben Fischer's Kansai Arc

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#13 Jenny

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Posted 12 January 2005 - 05:31 AM

Sweet, I'll be sure to read that sometime.
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#14 The Master Maniac

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Posted 15 January 2005 - 01:25 PM

I'll have to check that one out. I've always wanted to spin a little X-Com fan-fiction myself, so I might give it a shot, too. Eh, worth a laugh or two, anyhow, right?

#15 Hobbes

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Posted 15 January 2005 - 01:50 PM

I am half way through it and had quite a few laughs already :)

#16 The Master Maniac

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Posted 15 January 2005 - 02:52 PM

Well, I was referring to how laughable mine would be, actually. ;)

#17 Hobbes

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Posted 15 January 2005 - 10:26 PM

Well, I was referring to how laughable mine would be, actually. ;)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Don't forget to add the scene where the Sectoid Leader blows the entire command center of the alien base by misfiring a blaster launcher.....always a classic :D

#18 stewart

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Posted 15 January 2005 - 10:33 PM

I believe Hobbes is talking about his own fictions for this thread for other Xcom Fan Fic's go to the other forum hobbes moderates right here.
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#19 The Master Maniac

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Posted 22 January 2005 - 03:21 PM

Yes, yes, of course--I wasn't trying to lead the topic astray, or anything. I'll be back when I've got a computer that'll let me download files to read (yes, here even THAT is frowned upon).

#20 decoder

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Posted 07 May 2005 - 02:31 PM

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#21 Hobbes

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Posted 09 May 2005 - 08:46 PM

Kansai is the best....it really influenced my writing and my view of X-Com.

#22 Sharp

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Posted 22 October 2005 - 10:16 AM

So is Abyssal going to be updated anytime this year. Its a shame if youve killed it as its a great story.

#23 Hobbes

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Posted 22 October 2005 - 12:13 PM

Funny you asked, since I was thinking last night about Abyssal.

I haven't killed the story completely but I have mixed feelings about it. In one hand, I like the background story and the characters, along with the fact that it continues and hopefully will resolve some of the loose ends of the Unknown Menace. But the underwater combat and the ship to ship fighting is really something very hard to write, because of how unreal it is. It makes no sense to fight while standing on your feet underwater and the velocities achieved by the subs/USOs are impossible.

In any case I hardly have any time right now to concentrate myself on Abyssal. It either will take a while to finish it, so for the near future there won't be updates to it.

#24 Sharp

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Posted 22 October 2005 - 04:37 PM

To be honest its not the realism that attracts me to your stories. What I think are great about Enemy Unknown and what looks like to be in Abyssal are the great plots and sub-plots, not to mention great detail given in battles, just reading Enemy Unknown before made me go and play the game again to go kill some aliens.

I hope you manage to find the time to update it soon, I will be anxiously waiting for another update.

#25 Blehm 98

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Posted 22 October 2005 - 06:03 PM

Hobbes - There are very few fanfiction writers who keep their fanfiction restricted to the limits of the game. So you can have guys jumping around and dodging in the water, although throwing grenades is still tough to do... then again you could invent some sort of grenade launcher which launches grenades a distance, perhaps grenades are just smaller torpedos or something
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#26 Hobbes

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Posted 22 October 2005 - 08:36 PM

But that's the thing that tickles me regarding my fan fictions. I started writing the Unknown Menace with the goal of approximating the original game to real life as much as possible. This might sound a bit of a contradiction, since it deals with an alien invasion plus covert governments and such but in some things, like the scientific and the military aspects, my effort was to make it plausible. I started Abyssal with the same intention but after a while I started to feel that I was going against this logic.

Oh well, I guess nothing is perfect.

#27 koriand'r

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Posted 06 November 2005 - 07:37 AM

I'm actually going to start reading the The Unknown Menace which I found on FF.net, its long, 36 chapters overall. I'm going to try and find some time to spare.

Hobbes, do you want a review of each chapter or one review covering the story overall?
UFO: Enemy and The Unknown *link below*

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2718854/1/

#28 Hobbes

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Posted 06 November 2005 - 07:54 AM

Hobbes, do you want a review of each chapter or one review covering the story overall?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I want you to enjoy reading it. And, if that happens (or not) and you feel there's something you want to say about the story then all feedback is welcome :)

#29 Mad

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Posted 06 November 2005 - 12:06 PM

But the underwater combat and the ship to ship fighting is really something very hard to write, because of how unreal it is. It makes no sense to fight while standing on your feet underwater and the velocities achieved by the subs/USOs are impossible.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe I can help you with your little problem ;)

1st) Fighting underwater might be easier if you stood on the ground, since targeting then is a lot easier. How to achieve this? No Problem: Lead shoes! :) The Problem is the moving underwater, because you need more strength and are much slower, but the aliens are also, and if you look at the TUs just as relative compare possibility, there is no problem anymore.

2nd) The velocities achieved by the subs are high, but one can achieve high velocities (ok, not that high, but much higher then conventional subs are able to take) with a new technology which surrounds the sub with a hull of air. This actually exists (can't find it at the moment) and allows very high underwater velocities.

Hope you'll finish Abyssal, I'm reading UM at the moment (22nd chapter) and I'm stunned! It's awesome! (despite the spelling... ;) ) I really should learn for University right now, but I'm just to attracted to the story! Wow! Keep on the good writing, it's pretty hard to do such fine stuff, I can tell! :)
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#30 Hobbes

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Posted 07 November 2005 - 08:46 AM

Maybe I can help you with your little problem ;)

1st) Fighting underwater might be easier if you stood on the ground, since targeting then is a lot easier. How to achieve this? No Problem: Lead shoes! :) The Problem is the moving underwater, because you need more strength and are much slower, but the aliens are also, and if you look at the TUs just as relative compare possibility, there is no problem anymore.

2nd) The velocities achieved by the subs are high, but one can achieve high velocities (ok, not that high, but much higher then conventional subs are able to take) with a new technology which surrounds the sub with a hull of air. This actually exists (can't find it at the moment) and allows very high underwater velocities.

Hope you'll finish Abyssal, I'm reading UM at the moment (22nd chapter) and I'm stunned! It's awesome! (despite the spelling... ;) ) I really should learn for University right now, but I'm just to attracted to the story! Wow! Keep on the good writing, it's pretty hard to do such fine stuff, I can tell! :)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Thanks for the help. Concerning the first issue I had already reached that conclusion before but I only remembered when I reviewed my notes (I couldn't find the files before). It's not just the targetting that becomes easier but at the depths that the aquanauts operate they would need some reference point concerning their location (since it is pitch dark down there) and that becomes easier with some ground under your feet.

I have also come up with with something before regarding the subs but I will most definitely look at what you mentioned. For the alien subs that isn't much a problem since you can came up with an explanation that doesn't have to be possible (the wonders of sci-fi writing) but human subs are more difficult to explain, but not impossible.

I am currently reviewing all that I've written so far, in order to prevent continuity errors with the next chapter (which is 90% done), so expect new material coming up soon.

#31 Mad

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Posted 07 November 2005 - 01:40 PM

I am currently reviewing all that I've written so far, in order to prevent continuity errors with the next chapter (which is 90% done), so expect new material coming up soon.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hooorraaayyyy!!! :) :master:
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And no, this is not a quote from the Simpson's movie, I want it on paper, that I actually wrote that quite some time before the movie came out.

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#32 JoeJoe

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Posted 07 November 2005 - 02:10 PM

cool

#33 Hobbes

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Posted 07 November 2005 - 07:20 PM

Phewww, I am glad I took the time to reread the whole story, otherwise there would be some bad mistakes.

Next chapter will be published tomorrow.

#34 koriand'r

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Posted 19 December 2005 - 07:08 AM

But the underwater combat and the ship to ship fighting is really something very hard to write, because of how unreal it is. It makes no sense to fight while standing on your feet underwater and the velocities achieved by the subs/USOs are impossible.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe I can help you with your little problem ;)

1st) Fighting underwater might be easier if you stood on the ground, since targeting then is a lot easier. How to achieve this? No Problem: Lead shoes! :) The Problem is the moving underwater, because you need more strength and are much slower, but the aliens are also, and if you look at the TUs just as relative compare possibility, there is no problem anymore.


I have to say Iím in disagreement over this idea, the body strength required to move underwater with something like lead on your shoes is near impossible, taking a stumble is likely going to bust your ankle. You'll be walking up very difficult terrain, exposed to marine predators and more air will be consumed from the oxygen tank because of the effort required. Having rushed air in you underwater *especially if your suit leaks* will add the chance of air bubbles into the veins which is lethal.

Pressures exerted by water are formidable, every 30 feet in depth is equal to an added atmosphere of pressure, about 14 pounds per square inch. At high pressure, nitrogen is easily dissolved in the blood and tissues. The deeper a diver goes and the longer they stay down, the more nitrogen is absorbed. Absorb too much nitrogen and it actually becomes toxic, causing a very dangerous condition known as nitrogen narcosis.

But more important is how the nitrogen comes out of solution as diver surfaces. If there is too much dissolved nitrogen in the body, or pressure is reduced too quickly, the gas can begin to form bubbles, causing a host of problems collectively known as decompression sickness, or more commonly known as the bends.


Really underwater expedition requires movements with the least of physical effort, if the person canít move well then create transportation to help deliver the person to that area. Since the timeline is a bit more ahead and with alien technology originally found you could create a small ellium based propeller system attached to the tank.

Consider the flying suits from UFO enemy unknown. They only needed a bit of ellieum, no refill and they could move on their own accord. The flying suit required little physical movement as well, it just glided through the air. Simply modify a watersuit version of one. Its surprisingly itself that Xcom terror from the deep did not do this since its an sequel and there was enough time for mankind to tweak and alter the technology for its own use. I know ellium at this period is scarce but it is equally likely there is a hidden reserve held by some government agency in case the worse may happen. And very little ellium is needed anyway to make a flying suit operational. Just like nukes, everyone wants a reduction but their will always be one or two in case the worse happens.

Edited by koriand'r, 19 December 2005 - 07:09 AM.

UFO: Enemy and The Unknown *link below*

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2718854/1/

#35 Mad

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Posted 19 December 2005 - 11:32 AM

I have to say Iím in disagreement over this idea, the body strength required to move underwater with something like lead on your shoes is near impossible, taking a stumble is likely going to bust your ankle. You'll be walking up very difficult terrain, exposed to marine predators and more air will be consumed from the oxygen tank because of the effort required. Having rushed air in you underwater *especially if your suit leaks* will add the chance of air bubbles into the veins which is lethal.

Pressures exerted by water are formidable, every 30 feet in depth is equal to an added atmosphere of pressure, about 14 pounds per square inch. At high pressure, nitrogen is easily dissolved in the blood and tissues. The deeper a diver goes and the longer they stay down, the more nitrogen is absorbed. Absorb too much nitrogen and it actually becomes toxic, causing a very dangerous condition known as nitrogen narcosis.

But more important is how the nitrogen comes out of solution as diver surfaces. If there is too much dissolved nitrogen in the body, or pressure is reduced too quickly, the gas can begin to form bubbles, causing a host of problems collectively known as decompression sickness, or more commonly known as the bends.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Well, to avoid the negative effects of nitrogene there are two possibilities:
1st: use helium plus oxigen. All fine. It is used in deep sea diving nowadays, but is very expensive.
2nd: more expensive, but more healthy and more effective is the version we all know from "The Abyss": "breathing" oxygenated liquids. This is no legend or science fiction. It's bare science. These liquids are used nowadays as blood replacement fluids. They are oxygenated fluorcarboxydes, and can "easily" be breathed.
The pressure thing is another problem, but can be avoided, as well as the moving problem by - not used in the game - full metal diving suits with hydraulic support.
I didn't say it is all without any problems, but they are nevertheless solvable.

---Edit---
Btw: lead shoes are used by under water workers, e.g. for underwater archeology, maybe too for oil rig workings, but I don't know 'bout this

Edited by Mad, 19 December 2005 - 11:34 AM.

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And no, this is not a quote from the Simpson's movie, I want it on paper, that I actually wrote that quite some time before the movie came out.

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#36 Blitzen

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Posted 19 December 2005 - 01:09 PM

Great Fan Fic Hobbes! I sometimes have trouble understanding it though because of all the SP errors. :D
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#37 koriand'r

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Posted 19 December 2005 - 04:51 PM

Well, to avoid the negative effects of nitrogene there are two possibilities:
1st: use helium plus oxigen. All fine. It is used in deep sea diving nowadays, but is very expensive.
2nd: more expensive, but more healthy and more effective is the version we all know from "The Abyss": "breathing" oxygenated liquids. This is no legend or science fiction. It's bare science. These liquids are used nowadays as blood replacement fluids. They are oxygenated fluorcarboxydes, and can "easily" be breathed.
The pressure thing is another problem, but can be avoided, as well as the moving problem by - not used in the game - full metal diving suits with hydraulic support.
I didn't say it is all without any problems, but they are nevertheless solvable.

---Edit---
Btw: lead shoes are used by under water workers, e.g. for underwater archeology, maybe too for oil rig workings, but I don't know 'bout this

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I am aware of use of lead shoes for underwater in archelogy and oil riging but it wouldn't be appliable to combat given archelogy and rig work revolve round the person being dropped at the location and that what they do phyically is a complete different ball game then the requirments. In the end your asking a character for underwater combat to a: walk around terrain in both underwater gear while holding combat gear underwater and explore large sets of terrain in a demanding pace. much faster then those who use it for archolegy and such would.

We can both agree that hydraulic based suit would be the best solution, of course either of us could be wrong or right as there has been close to zero of actual experimentationís of underwater close combat. (If any) A lighter material would be more suitable, plastic can be a good solution *tanks will be made of plastic based materials in the near based future.* Or the alien alloy from the first game can be equally adapt as i said before, its easy to make armour out of it and the advanced armour/flying suits have their own environmental system which is why i'm saying an underwater version may be possible. But in the end the effective suit design should have some form of computerised system to allow the user to cope better.

The sea is a dark, cold and claustrophobic area and you'll be seeing mainly in a preithal/tunnel vision. So a better in built navigation/sonar equipment may be suggestible. *We already have a navigation system in some cars and even some mobile phones, so I won't call it far fetched beyond our abilities. The only reason why is because of pure expense and some fields needed to be covered.

But given this story is based after the first game where you researched on advanced forms of interceptive communications (hyper decoder, gravity defying suits wityh built in enviromental features.) Forward 40yrs on past wars and such and I do feel strongly that such technology of an underwater equivalent should exist for Xcom prior to terror of the deep. I hate repeating the suggestion of an underwater equivalent of an powersuit/flying suit but those designs espacilly in hobbes eariler fic allowed them to survive the coldness and brutal environment of Mars and game wise are quite resistant to plasma weaponary (and they do hurt!) Perhaps it would make the story a bit easier but ignoring the technological potential that was gained during the peace years is something that canít be ignored because it is part of a characterís backstory and history.

Edited by koriand'r, 19 December 2005 - 04:55 PM.

UFO: Enemy and The Unknown *link below*

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2718854/1/

#38 Mad

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Posted 19 December 2005 - 05:29 PM

I am aware of use of lead shoes for underwater in archelogy and oil riging but it wouldn't be appliable to combat given archelogy and rig work revolve round the person being dropped at the location and that what they do phyically is a complete different ball game then the requirments. In the end your asking a character for underwater combat to a: walk around terrain in both underwater gear while holding combat gear underwater and explore large sets of terrain in a demanding pace. much faster then those who use it for archolegy and such would. 

We can both agree that hydraulic based suit would be the best solution, of course either of us could be wrong or right as there has been close to zero of actual experimentationís of underwater close combat. (If any) A lighter material would be more suitable, plastic can be a good solution *tanks will be made of plastic based materials in the near based future.* Or the alien alloy from the first game can be equally adapt as i said before, its easy to make armour out of it and the advanced armour/flying suits have their own environmental system which is why i'm saying an underwater version may be possible. But in the end the effective suit design should have some form of computerised system to allow the user to cope better.

The sea is a dark, cold and claustrophobic area and you'll be seeing mainly in a preithal/tunnel vision. So a better in built navigation/sonar equipment may be suggestible. *We already have a navigation system in some cars and even some mobile phones, so I won't call it far fetched beyond our abilities. The only reason why is because of pure expense and some fields needed to be covered.

But given this story is based after the first game where you researched on advanced forms of interceptive communications (hyper decoder, gravity defying suits wityh built in enviromental features.) Forward 40yrs on past wars and such and I do feel strongly that such technology of an underwater equivalent should exist for Xcom prior to terror of the deep. I hate repeating the suggestion of an underwater equivalent of an powersuit/flying suit but those designs espacilly in hobbes eariler fic allowed them to survive the coldness and brutal environment of Mars and game wise are quite resistant to plasma weaponary (and they do hurt!) Perhaps it would make the story a bit easier but ignoring the technological potential that was gained during the peace years is something that canít be ignored because it is part of a characterís backstory and history.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, I see, and I agree to your point. The best sollution would be an underwater equivaltent of the power suit. But the problem is: Hobbes wants to write a story based on X-COM TFTD. And Microprose choose not to use any of the UFO EU technologies in this game. So, as I see this and why I wrote sth. in the first place, we are here, to find a logical explanation for the technology of TFTD and it's use, so Hobbes can build his story on it. Therefore, we can exploit that Microprose didn't explain too much in the Ufopedia, but we may not - as preferable this would be - "develop" new technologies which are not in the game. E.g. There is nowhere mentioned what the aquanauts breath, so it can easily be fluorcarbonates.
Remember, this is not about creating a background for PJXenocide V1+ underwater feature.
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#39 Blitzen

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Posted 19 December 2005 - 05:58 PM

I am aware of use of lead shoes for underwater in archelogy and oil riging but it wouldn't be appliable to combat given archelogy and rig work revolve round the person being dropped at the location and that what they do phyically is a complete different ball game then the requirments. In the end your asking a character for underwater combat to a: walk around terrain in both underwater gear while holding combat gear underwater and explore large sets of terrain in a demanding pace. much faster then those who use it for archolegy and such would.†

We can both agree that hydraulic based suit would be the best solution, of course either of us could be wrong or right as there has been close to zero of actual experimentationís of underwater close combat. (If any) A lighter material would be more suitable, plastic can be a good solution *tanks will be made of plastic based materials in the near based future.* Or the alien alloy from the first game can be equally adapt as i said before, its easy to make armour out of it and the advanced armour/flying suits have their own environmental system which is why i'm saying an underwater version may be possible. But in the end the effective suit design should have some form of computerised system to allow the user to cope better.

The sea is a dark, cold and claustrophobic area and you'll be seeing mainly in a preithal/tunnel vision. So a better in built navigation/sonar equipment may be suggestible. *We already have a navigation system in some cars and even some mobile phones, so I won't call it far fetched beyond our abilities. The only reason why is because of pure expense and some fields needed to be covered.

But given this story is based after the first game where you researched on advanced forms of interceptive communications (hyper decoder, gravity defying suits wityh built in enviromental features.) Forward 40yrs on past wars and such and I do feel strongly that such technology of an underwater equivalent should exist for Xcom prior to terror of the deep. I hate repeating the suggestion of an underwater equivalent of an powersuit/flying suit but those designs espacilly in hobbes eariler fic allowed them to survive the coldness and brutal environment of Mars and game wise are quite resistant to plasma weaponary (and they do hurt!) Perhaps it would make the story a bit easier but ignoring the technological potential that was gained during the peace years is something that canít be ignored because it is part of a characterís backstory and history.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, I see, and I agree to your point. The best sollution would be an underwater equivaltent of the power suit. But the problem is: Hobbes wants to write a story based on X-COM TFTD. And Microprose choose not to use any of the UFO EU technologies in this game. So, as I see this and why I wrote sth. in the first place, we are here, to find a logical explanation for the technology of TFTD and it's use, so Hobbes can build his story on it. Therefore, we can exploit that Microprose didn't explain too much in the Ufopedia, but we may not - as preferable this would be - "develop" new technologies which are not in the game. E.g. There is nowhere mentioned what the aquanauts breath, so it can easily be fluorcarbonates.
Remember, this is not about creating a background for PJXenocide V1+ underwater feature.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



A solution to this problem that I saw somewhere was that TFTD and UFO were fought by different groups. The X-com group that went to Cydonia then got reinforcements and went out searching for Alien outposts that mined Erelium(sp please?). however right after they left the underwater activity happened and the Gov started a new branch of X-com from scratch as the original x-com group shared little tech with the rest of the world. Interesting to note, in a Microprose document (I don't know which) they stated that the aquanaught suit was built using alien alloys from xcom ufo. Gauss also was an aplicaton of Plasma. A slight contradiction is that Gauss is Erelium bassed and Erelium is not special.
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#40 Mad

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Posted 20 December 2005 - 11:19 AM

A solution to this problem that I saw somewhere was that TFTD and UFO were fought by different groups. The X-com group that went to Cydonia then got reinforcements and went out searching for Alien outposts that mined Erelium(sp please?). however right after they left the underwater activity happened and the Gov started a new branch of X-com from scratch as the original x-com group shared little tech with the rest of the world. Interesting to note, in a Microprose document (I don't know which) they stated that the aquanaught suit was built using alien alloys from xcom ufo. Gauss also was an aplicaton of Plasma. A slight contradiction is that Gauss is Erelium bassed and Erelium is not special.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, first, to answer your question: it is spelled Elirium-115 :)
second, unfortunatly Microprose themselves filled the gap between EU and TFTD with a booklet which was shipped with the original version of TFTD. You can read it at StrategyCore.
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#41 Hobbes

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Posted 20 December 2005 - 02:21 PM

Well, first thank you all for the discussion because it is nice to read different opinions regarding this subject. Rather than replying each to each one's argument it is probably better to try to sum it all up since I've pretty much figured what I am doing regarding the technology.

1) 'Reality' issue. Right now I feel it is impossible to make the fighting as real as it was on the first novel. Like Koriander say, there's simply too much things that don't add up: the question of light at underwater depths (sunlight only reaches a certain depth, after that the sea becomes pitch black); the question of water pressure increasing exponentially as the depth is higher; the nitrogen/decompression, etc., etc., etc.
What I've decided to do is both to avoid creating water environments that blatanly contradict those realities. For deep sea missions the characters will undoubtely require some artificial lighting. If they're diving too deep then they will require some sort of decompression, and so on. It won't be 'real' but (hopefully) there won't be major errors.

2) Continuity/Technology issue. The TFTD booklet and the UFOPedia clearly state a number of situations decurring from the water environment: Elerium dissolves in salt water (there's already a mention to this on the Unknown Menace btw ;), lasers can't be used, etc. Plus X-COM was disbanded sometime after the end of the first war. Whatever remained of it was turned into a commercial enterprise (the SORESO platform) with the sole propose of recovering Elerium from sunken UFOs. There's also one factor here to consider: that 40 years from now the technology would have expanded upon the gains of the original war and put into underwater use. I am assuming exactly the opposite on the novel: that there has been a stagnation of technology during those 40 years (related to the development of events) concerning its use. It is not that new technologies haven't been developed but that their application to real life has been curtailed.

3) Difference between both novels. This might not yet be apparent but both novels aree much different concerning several matters. Some examples: the organization of X-COM, the importance of scientific research into the aliens, the political situation, the focus on less characters. I've mentioned before that it is my intention to make both novels as distinct as possible, unlike UFO/TFTD. This is due because of the problems you mentioned regarding underwater fighting but also to prevent a simple repetition of the first novel in the second.

#42 koriand'r

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Posted 24 December 2005 - 09:00 PM

True reality is a pain and the line between canon and reality is thin. What I try to do is imagine the scenarios that can be produced by the abilties/options available and push as far I can take it. But that can risk being too radical, different but I would take that chance since to be fair though Xcom fics are done very well, they do start from the same point and therefore it can become predictable if not careful. And as you said before you like to emphasise the difference and avoid any repetition that would make it similir to your last work.
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#43 koriand'r

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Posted 14 October 2006 - 06:26 AM

Elerium dissolves in salt water



May this quote forever haunt you for while researching on UFO's, the history channel did a series of UFO documentaries and one of them was USO's and while the Xcom series prides itself in trying to blend reality in its series there was one factor in the the history channel showing of UFO's where it talked about USO's and of one footage of a USO funneling water upwars to it. One strong theory is that salt water is a essential part of fusion just as salt water is needed for the making of plutonium. So in short it dosen't hold water does the excuse (no pun intended)

Though we can excuse that as I like to be smug for the sake of it and as said before we should be careful in graphin too much reality to a story. The only thing that should be true to real is the solider's ability underwater in fact I feel that you should emphasise on this as it'll give the story to change course. I would argue robotics, given mankind had accses to advanced alien tec for a while, technology would had updated would it not make sense if the fighting troops were robots? Even today the U.S has a big ambtion to make a third of its army robotic in the next twenty years (and that's without alien tec) In Xcom universe they created minature tanks, hovercrafts and could even MC aliens and their heavy weaponary given it was all neural connected (or something) I would suggest you could create a militry hardware weaponary based on it. It would make a excellent show of continuity and make more sense as a machine remote controlled/MC controlled will gurantee that the user will not be harmed. If most, not all of our current underwater expedtion and warfare is operated by machinery to an extent why shouldn't the warfare of the future be any different? The only thing that could change is the distance of control where you don't neccsary need a man in a suit to control him, it could be done by itself, the machine's own AI or of the user himself controlling the machine by MC based tecnology.

Its your choice ultimately, these are my ideas for my own story in time to come but I do feel conflict would have evolved somewhat. It has to if you want to avoid doing a direct copy.
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#44 Hobbes

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Posted 21 October 2006 - 08:52 AM

Elerium dissolves in salt water



May this quote forever haunt you for while researching on UFO's, the history channel did a series of UFO documentaries and one of them was USO's and while the Xcom series prides itself in trying to blend reality in its series there was one factor in the the history channel showing of UFO's where it talked about USO's and of one footage of a USO funneling water upwars to it.


Do you believe everything you see on the History Channel? My opinion is that until a UFO lands on the roof of the UN building everything is simply the product of either misconceptions or a strong imagination. ;)

There a lot of theories, the question is to use one that suits your needs. And my goals when I resume the story are to keep it as much close to the official documentation that was released with the games.

One strong theory is that salt water is a essential part of fusion just as salt water is needed for the making of plutonium. So in short it dosen't hold water does the excuse (no pun intended)


One correction: plutonium is made by bombarding uranium with neutrons in nuclear reactions. It does not require water, what may require water are the reactors for their refrigeration systems, depending on their type.

I would argue robotics, given mankind had accses to advanced alien tec for a while, technology would had updated would it not make sense if the fighting troops were robots? Even today the U.S has a big ambtion to make a third of its army robotic in the next twenty years (and that's without alien tec) In Xcom universe they created minature tanks, hovercrafts and could even MC aliens and their heavy weaponary given it was all neural connected (or something) I would suggest you could create a militry hardware weaponary based on it. It would make a excellent show of continuity and make more sense as a machine remote controlled/MC controlled will gurantee that the user will not be harmed.


Just for the sake of discussion, try to imagine what would happen if instead of soldiers you'd have robotic systems fighting on low intensity conflicts like Iraq right now. How could they deal with the civilian population? What about searching people's houses and arresting insurgents/terrorists? Winning hearts and minds?
Arguably, you can say that this sort of low conflict would not be the situation where AI/Remote controlled robotic would be deployed, only in situations of open conflict, where 2 armies march off and face themselves in battle. But there you have 2 problems:
1) You are assuming that there will be an opponent willing to face your robotic force on the terms that they were designed to fight. If there isn't such a force, then the enemy's strategy most likely will be the one employed against Western forces in Iraq and Afghanistan: blend with the population to increase civilian loss of life and their hostility towards the occupier and/or attack the force's support systems (the engineers, workshops, supply routes, etc.) that make it work and are more vulnerable.
2) You are reducing warfare to a single dimension, assuming that conflict will only be made between those robotized forces. In other words, that nations/entities/etc. will all decide that the way to conduct wars is by deploying armies of robots to slug it out between themselves.
In the case of the US the decision you refer of using more robots has both a political and economic rationale: soldiers take time and money to train and dead bodies don't play well at home. But most soldiers will frown upon an idea of replacing humans with robots because: a) it endangers their jobs; B) it dehumanizes warfare and encourages its use as a mean to resolve all problems. Like a famous general once said: "it's good warfare is so terrible, otherwise we would grow fond of it".

I am not saying that robots don't have their place on the battlefield: there are niches where they are mostly useful, like surveillance, aerial fighting, fire support and so on. But I don't expect for the future to bring conflicts with only robots facing one another: there will always still be the boots on the ground grunts.

#45 koriand'r

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 05:44 AM

Do you believe everything you see on the History Channel? My opinion is that until a UFO lands on the roof of the UN building everything is simply the product of either misconceptions or a strong imagination.

There a lot of theories, the question is to use one that suits your needs. And my goals when I resume the story are to keep it as much close to the official documentation that was released with the games.


I don't believe everything the history channel says, it's like saying that wikipedia is the ultimate source of truth, just because it's the latest internet-search-for craze. In the end it's once source of study, but to get a better picture you must explore a wider field.

Bear in the mind the series was talking about the 'IF' factor, in this case UFO's/USO's and i watched the programes to know why would the aliens create something so poorly aerodynamic.

I myself can't really write down something and think to myself (wait that isn't logical) for every oddity you may find (such as ellieum dissolavble in salt water (well it is odd if useing such a fuel to travel a world made two-thirds of it, its very convienent to say the least) or why UFO's act like they do in the UFO enemy unkown etc) just raises a hundred more questions. I would even go to an extent to rewriting a few of the 'canon' elements just to get it sound plausiable. I'm I betrying the offical documentation by doing so? I don't think so, it's just being done in another way and that's how i try to do things.

Just for the sake of discussion, try to imagine what would happen if instead of soldiers you'd have robotic systems fighting on low intensity conflicts like Iraq right now. How could they deal with the civilian population? What about searching people's houses and arresting insurgents/terrorists? Winning hearts and minds?
Arguably, you can say that this sort of low conflict would not be the situation where AI/Remote controlled robotic would be deployed, only in situations of open conflict, where 2 armies march off and face themselves in battle. But there you have 2 problems:
1) You are assuming that there will be an opponent willing to face your robotic force on the terms that they were designed to fight. If there isn't such a force, then the enemy's strategy most likely will be the one employed against Western forces in Iraq and Afghanistan: blend with the population to increase civilian loss of life and their hostility towards the occupier and/or attack the force's support systems (the engineers, workshops, supply routes, etc.) that make it work and are more vulnerable.
2) You are reducing warfare to a single dimension, assuming that conflict will only be made between those robotized forces. In other words, that nations/entities/etc. will all decide that the way to conduct wars is by deploying armies of robots to slug it out between themselves.
In the case of the US the decision you refer of using more robots has both a political and economic rationale: soldiers take time and money to train and dead bodies don't play well at home. But most soldiers will frown upon an idea of replacing humans with robots because: a) it endangers their jobs; it dehumanizes warfare and encourages its use as a mean to resolve all problems. Like a famous general once said: "it's good warfare is so terrible, otherwise we would grow fond of it".

I am not saying that robots don't have their place on the battlefield: there are niches where they are mostly useful, like surveillance, aerial fighting, fire support and so on. But I don't expect for the future to bring conflicts with only robots facing one another: there will always still be the boots on the ground grunts.



This is going to turn to the battle of quotes here...

I am, aware of the difficulty of robotics but understand i am relating them to the underwater scenario that faces Xcom in Terror the deep, I am aware of the situation of the troops face in ie: Iraq etc (though they do have a machiene of a sorts already in Iraq.)

http://news.bbc.co.u...cas/4199935.stm

I doubt an undersea force is going to occupy a colony of gillman and start an effort to win hearts and minds, point here is that let's just say for argument's sake that this world just defeated aliens like those from enemy unkown, it is fair to argue that during time there will be a boom in technology, where certain technologies will be upgraded. Granted a lot of stuff proposed here don't even appear in TOTD but it is quite clear that game is just a direct copy of the first, so is the technology shown in that game a fair reflection of the continuity made from the first? To me it isn't. And with enemies like the Tenactulat's, wouldn't there be some big heads who would consider alternatives in dealing with the threat.

There's nano technology as well to consider along with the 'metal storm' project, in it's infancy but if the world just got alien tec, the advances made to the two would be incredible but the danger clearly being is you will remove all Xcom elements.

Yet isn't that somthing to consider putting in?

We know Xcom got broken up after enemy unkown but as you said yourself, a lot of people in say the army would get a bit niffed at seeing their employment and roles reduced by robotics but machiene taking over jobs isn't new, it happens in the car industry, pottery industry, most major and skilled based companies. Technology is fast breaking up human interaction, alienating it, intergrating us more to computers. The air force will be the first one of the lot in the future to be replaced by AI (the raptor perhaps the last man based fighter) why? the need for speed, the G Force is becomming far too much for us, the raptor is apprently the limit of what fighter pilots can fly. To an extent it does have machienes doing it's work in the role of spy drones.

While I'm not saying it should be a total rewrite, I think it would be good if the only threat facing Xcom wasn't just the aliens and religious cults, that it would be of technology itself that would threaten to 'reform' the way they operate and of course it's employment.
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#46 Hobbes

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Posted 19 December 2006 - 07:40 PM

Sorry to take so long to reply (I didn't have my own forum in subscription - just realized it!)

It's very well to use several sources, like you mentioned you did. Sometimes people don't have the idea of how much a fact can be exaggerated and my mention to the History Channel was to question the 'authenticity' that I wrongly assumed you to give to its shows.

The question is then a matter of which elements to choose for the plot. On X-COM this clearly includes fiction, unproven claims and accepted truths, regarding present issues/technology and our own projection of where the story's present will take it on the future. AIs are starting to be more used in the battlefield and robots on the economy? Yes. Will this take us into an era where there will be a wider use of robots on the battlefield? Maybe. There have been in the past other inventions that were meant to revolutionize warfare: many didn't but they were still adapted to have uses on the battlefield. But this is my personal opinion, nothing more.

Undoubtedly it counts when I am imagining the story's present and future, should I decide to use it or try writing something completely different. In the end, if you stick to it and are coherent the reader will accept it for narrative's sake (even if he strongly disagrees with it), since it is presented in a masquerade of fiction.

If you have been reading my own take of TFTD, Abyssal, you'll see some of those visions there. And it is a very bleak world, where technology is somewhat higher but the overall living has dropped a few steps for everybody. For most people in the world daily survival is their main concern, either from starvation, wanton violence or disease. And the others are more concerned about keeping their own limited resources to themselves rather than to be actually sharing. On this world Robots and nano-technology can exist but only as scientific curiosities and low scale projects because of the resources involved in developing them. The same also happens to other technologies: after a brief effort, interplanetary space travel is dismissed and the lack of E-115 renders nearly all alien technology useless or too resource consuming to be used. For the price of placing a soldier equipped with a laser weapon on the field the other side can place 10 with conventional weapons.

My point here is that everyone can change the canon to its own uses (and I've deviated a little myself). The trick is to do with without changing the main issues regarding the story, so that it doesn't deviate into something that clearly contrasts with the original story.

#47 koriand'r

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Posted 26 December 2006 - 03:54 PM

I think it is possible to present a creative story yet give it an incredible level of realisim (take the novel: Day of the Jackal) for example and some countries refer to some forms of Idenity theft as the 'Jackal technquie' given the detail that the book gives over some insights to the world of assasins.

I have read bits of your novelisation of TOTD (Though I should be more concentrated on the unknown menace fic) and while I'm reserving elements of review i would say simply there are parts that sound a tad 'warhammer' like the cult of sirus and the 'inquisator' I'm sure was put in on one chapter.

As for your story at the moment in unkown menace; it's great though as said before i think the whole Area 51 has been done to death, why aliens didn't elnimate that area puzzles me and surprised out of all the special forces mentioned, the SAS and Isreal's security force weren't mentioned. Certinely in training standards the SAS pushes the standards more then say the foriegn legion. I am hoping to use the weekend break from work to review it all.

I'm still writing my second chapter, if you will note it does hint I have taken a different approach to Xcom (As said before I have changed the canon material from the start) Mainly to avoid being a copy to yet another 'secret war' Of course this is the most canon fact but at the same time a lot of stories negelct the fact the etherdals have teleknesis and this is never exploited. I will say i will take this factor and use it for a stronger plot along with putting in the Chryssids in a new fashion (I hate spelling their name) In fact it was because of those aliens that made me first assumed that Xcom was a open war against the aliens as those things can't be stopped by conventional things and you only have 10-18 people trained with suitable weaponary?


Had no one done an Xcom fic on the scale you have then I would follow more to the canon, but i like to stand and would twist a few facts if it makes the aliens look more clever and more orignal.
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