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#1 crazy_higer

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Posted 09 August 2005 - 12:10 AM

What if there was a possibility to launch an observation sattelite to the orbit (for a considerable sum of money, of course, and the X-Com workshops would have to break a sweat to build one)?

You could manufacture it, and then send it to a geostationary orbit over a selected spot, where it'd act as a surveilance thing, detecting UFOs, alien bases, what have you.

It could also add a nice feature, that if you go on a mission within a surveyed area, you get the entire battlescape map unveiled (but not lighted at night) from the beginning.

#2 UnFleshed One

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Posted 09 August 2005 - 12:27 AM

Didn't they just destroy all sattelites? And they still lurking around. UFOs are space capable, you crafts are mostly not, so they have vast advantage there.
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#3 crazy_higer

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Posted 09 August 2005 - 02:33 AM

Didn't they just destroy all sattelites? And they still lurking around. UFOs are space capable, you crafts are mostly not, so they have vast advantage there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Some stealth technology could be in order. :)
Besides, same as X-Com bases - everything is at risk of being destroyed. Plus, I am talking about AFTER the UFOs took out the regular satellites.

#4 UnFleshed One

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Posted 09 August 2005 - 02:47 AM

Well, one always can make aliens to capture all spaceports... Then Xcom can recapture one with great difficulty. And then hold it, constantly fighting back aliens, until sattelite is ready, delivered and launched. (and then some alien scout will go and shoot it :)).

Edited by UnFleshed One, 09 August 2005 - 02:48 AM.

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#5 crazy_higer

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Posted 09 August 2005 - 09:00 AM

... (and then some alien scout will go and shoot it :)).


I absolutely love the idea! :rock:

#6 sir_schwick

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Posted 09 August 2005 - 10:50 PM

By the time they are shooting satellites down it is way past anything that a couple hundred guys in caves can handle. At that point governments need to be popping out Personal Armour and Laser Rifles or else everyone is screwed. Until then you are pretty much using an uplink to a GPS or Keyhole or some other spy or commercial satellite.

#7 Snakeman

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Posted 10 August 2005 - 03:56 PM

I figure, if your doing well enough against the aliens, that ought to buy you the breathing room you need to try to get some satellite replacements in order. I think too maybe the process could take a que from what University scientists are working on now with regard to nanosatellite technology. The whole process is about creating small satellites with a singular use, while at the same time cutting costs in both development time and launch costs to get the things in orbit.

Right now though I don't think they care much as far as the things having any kind of longevity in being operational. Seems to be short duration activity. I don't know how much truth there is to this portion, but in a way it would seem a little funny that aliens would waste time going after them if they have such a short operational lifespan anyway :)

In any case, I think there ought to also be other ways to get intel without them. i.e. if you still had ground based stuff, or you actually had to use live people as operatives somehow.

#8 Blehm 98

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Posted 10 August 2005 - 05:01 PM

well, depending on how small, if they were small enough, you could essentially build a small one-way rocket which goes into space and releases the satellites, that would make it a lot easier for Xcom, especially if three of them were launched at say an alien base and the one with satellites didn't make it
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#9 sir_schwick

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Posted 11 August 2005 - 08:20 AM

The idea of a space catapult for light loads(a couple tons) has been in the works for thirty years. It is a pretty tight concept that has been ignored because its main proponent was selling the technology to Suddam Hussein. I imagine that X-COM could develop or upgrade current space cannons using Xenium assisted launchs and super-light alien alloy components. The nano-satellites themselves would not have to be more complicated than the average blaster bomb.

#10 shevegen

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Posted 28 August 2005 - 09:55 PM

Actually, in Germany as part of the ESA, there, mini satellites have been improved.

I think either last year, or this year (2005), the Sloshsat-Flevo was scheduled into space.

Now the cool thing about it is that it IS a satellite, and only weighs at
129 kg. (What would that be in pounds? I guess something along 259 pounds or so)

Similar satellites are very cheap because of their small size, they cost less than 10.000 €uro,
and I imagine that they will continue to become cheaper.


Now, translated for Xenocide, I believe it could be very possible to have mini satellites
that arent costing too much, and since they are a rather small object in space, it wouldnt
be soooo easy to spot them (well of course they get spotted sooner or later, but maybe there
are special coatings, special forms that could delay that inevitable shoot-down by
aliens)

#11 sir_schwick

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Posted 29 August 2005 - 07:20 AM

Or you could even send 'space mines' and other weapons up there. A space mine would simply look like space junk, but try and seek out alien craft to blow them up. Aftering launching a few thousand into space, the aliens would have to annoucne their presence through large mine-clearing fleets. Or at least go into a sector of the sky you can scan easily.

#12 Snakeman

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Posted 29 August 2005 - 10:20 AM

Hmm, now space mines sound intriquing as a tactic, especially if you factor in the ideas on building carrier ships in orbit in later stage play. Those kinds of facilities will need various layers of protection while the job gets done. Unless of course the technology in building large ships like this gives X-COM the ability to launch from Earth its self.

i.e. the little factoid about elerium/xenium manipulating gravity waves to propel engines with the stuff etc.

Anyway, the mini-sat deployment angle got me thinking about this. If it can be adapted to use small high explosives to mine a section of orbiting sky, it introduces tactics in other areas too, even if your not going for carrier construction. As shwick points out, they could temporarily herd the aliens to come in through other points of sky already covered by ground based radars/HWDs while their kin works to reclaim the mined sections of sky.

#13 sir_schwick

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Posted 29 August 2005 - 11:40 AM

Add in orbital probes and IntOps and you can wage a decent deception reconaissance war in orbit. Then you would have really good chance of knowing when aliens were coming before they hit orbit. You can hit them within minutes of them entering orbit. THis may require changing the game so that most of the better/important missions do not last as long. I.e., terror missions would literally last an hour or two, os until you get fast response vehicles you have to suffer. Ground missions would not last very long unless the UFO is down, etc.

#14 Snakeman

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Posted 29 August 2005 - 01:42 PM

It could also open up missions to explore derelicts in orbit that have suffered from mine attacks. Course you could only access them with Avengers or better and it'd be prudent to have power/flying suits. Possibly some engineering gear with an engineer or two as well (more on this later).

This type could be timed by turns too, if the derelict was inserted into a decaying orbit. If so, and you do the mission, your not just mopping up and scavenging gear.

The thought of having an accopanying engineer and gear for him with the troops along in this scenario, is more for placing retros or something on the ship to let it crash in a conrolled manner. I'd guess trying to keep the alien war secret would be harder otherwise if it crashed in a populated area. Anyway, if this were in, I'd also hope there'd be a way to determine if a derelict was in a decaying orbit or not.

If it wasn't, then the mission wouldn't be that much of a priority. You could do it at your leisure.

#15 GARAK

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Posted 31 August 2005 - 03:19 PM

We could buy the rights to the homeworld 2 engine and...

Wow this stuff is getting complicated. I like it though.

#16 Snakeman

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Posted 31 August 2005 - 05:17 PM

I just like the idea from the perspective of at least trying to direct alien UFO traffic, if even temporarily.

Edit: Another thought I had. Perhaps using the mining orbit(s) thing in another area for why you might want to use it...We know from the other thread about taking alien bases for either moving in permanently, or for taking important stuff and then running - Maybe this is the kind of delaying tactic you could employ.

By forcing aliens for a week or so to fly in prescribed flight paths, you can use your interceptors (to go after what comes through) along with the mines to give you that time.

Edited by Snakeman, 31 August 2005 - 05:22 PM.


#17 GARAK

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Posted 01 September 2005 - 12:13 AM

"Near Space" orbit is humongous. It would be nearly impossible to mine even with a gun to shoot the mines up there. It would take forever. Besides, how much damage can a little microsat do? If it's to big then the aliens would destroy them. I guess a blaster bomb can blow a small hole in a ship but I don't think it would crash, they would fix it.
If the mines could not be detected the aliens wouldn't find the hole would they? They would either keep risking landings everywhere or take a few hits and move on to more advanced and lethal tactics. I doubt they would let some microsats disrupt them for very long.

Think about it the earth has a "Surface Area: Land area, about 148,300,000 sq km, or about 30% of total surface area; water area, about 361,800,000 sq km, or about 70% of total surface area."
In other words, the mine idea is way to unrealistic IMO. If you put just one every square kilometer you would need over 500,000,000 mines.
FIVE HUNDRED MILLION! One every kilometer isn't very much either.
Even more because orbit would occupy a much larger space than the surface of the earth.
If you launched one every hundred miles and gave them a thruster to attack the alien ship the aliens would only fall for that one time. Afterwards they would take it as common procedure to fire at anything bigger than a baseball approaching their ship, even if it does look like trash.

Anyway, I still like the microsat idea for better radar coverage, and perhaps some prior warning to them actually entering the atmosphere.
It would make sense to aim a few at mars all the time just to see what can be seen.

Edited by GARAK, 01 September 2005 - 12:15 AM.


#18 sir_schwick

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Posted 01 September 2005 - 09:07 AM

Imagine this..........................

Tiny transmitter PLUS........................warhead designed with nasty suprises. No minefield is ever designed to stop transit, just slow it down and provide some information to your side. Every time satellite went on its suicide mission it would transmit that in a broad frequency. Now you know something is happening in x sector and can start aiming observation gear and such towards it.

Also, mines are never part of area-defense doctrine, only point defense doctrine. Minefields could be used as part of an effort to create no-zones(aliens go around) or they are forced to go through. For example, if you find an alien base you mine above it and now the aliens have to fly farther around or come in slow. Just in time for your ships to intercept. You could also do the same as a defence for your bases or country capitals.

#19 Snakeman

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Posted 01 September 2005 - 10:42 AM

I think the right term we're really looking for here is 'geosynchronous' orbit. In order to cover something that's ground based, that grouping of mines/sats would probably have to stay above that location as the Earth rotates. Granted, the sats can go in any orbit, but I should think the useage of mines would need to be specially placed. I think the differences in deployment of either comes down to if the speed of the thing matches the rotation of the Earth or not. One thing would appear to need it, the other does not (sats).

Which means the thing that does the deploying would need to match speed with the Earth when it does lay mines. Since its a point defense thing, that would imply you could introduce something else to help, like surface-to-space weaponry to assist or future enhancements to the mines themselves (the high explosive/blasterbomb example w/tracking or homing in abilities).

I like the early warning bonuses you might get with the sats, but it would appear that placing mines is very much a surgical exercise.

#20 Blood Angel

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Posted 01 September 2005 - 01:21 PM

I like the idea of a classic sattelite, with defences based on research level. At the beginning, if you had the manpower, you could launch a satellite with laser defences. As you progress, you can launch satellites with plasma defences, and eventually fusion ball defences. Once you get the avenger, you can go up to a satellite and upgrade it. Maybe if the avenger was ambushed, you could have an ace map with an avenger, soldiers and engineers. You need to fight off the aliens, or at least get the engineers into the secure workshop.