Grenade Problem

[johnb10000]

On a cargo ship rescue mission about half my solders were carrying grenades in one hand and a rifle in the other hand. On the first part of the mission I lost only one solder out of 14 before going to the second part of the mission on the lower decks.

 

After arriving on the lower decks I had some strange problems with the grenades the solders were already holding. I had a couple of solders toss some grenades near some aliens but the grenades didn’t go off. A couple of turns later two of my solders blew up for no reason. On another turn one of the sonic pulsars that didn’t go off in earlier turn acted like a particle disturbance grenade and blew up when a solder walked past it. After this I had all the remaining solders toss all grenades as far away as possible. I managed to survive this mission with four solders left.

 

Has anybody else had this problem? It looks like it is a good idea to toss any grenades a solder is carrying when going to the second part of a mission.

[[NKF]]

Were any of the grenades primed before the last part ended? If they were, then there's your problem.

 

The game doesn't quite reset the equipment stats properly and it doesn't clear or set some stats when it should. Did you have any particle disturbance grenades primed that were unused on the previous mission?

 

For example say the following is a snippet from the object table for the first mission.

 

11. gauss rifle

12. gauss rifle clip, 12 clips

13. grenade, primed, set to detonate on or after turn 32 (i.e you primed it on turn 32)

14. grenade

15. particle disturbance grenade, armed (prox mine)

 

Let's say that when you ended the mission two objects further up the table have been destroyed or spent. Now the new object table snippet might look like this:

 

 

11. grenade, detonate on or after turn 32

12. grenade

13. particle disturbance grenade

14. sonic blasta rifle

15. sonic blasta rifle clip, armed (prox mine)

 

Now, the old primed grenade will only explode on turn 32 (since you set it on turn 32), but you start the mission on turn 1. You'll have to wait 31 more turns before the grenade explodes. Also note how the item slot that originally held an armed proximity mine now has a different object, but still has the armed proximity mine set. If you dropped that blasta rifle clip on the ground, and stepped near it, it would explode. Why? Because the game doesn't seem to handle the 'armed proximity mine' flag properly (it doesn't know how to clear it or move it with its originating object). Heck, it doesn't even store it in the savegame files (it's only stored in memory). However, if it's set and the object table isn't reset, whatever object that takes over the slot originally used by the proximity mine will take on the abilities of an armed proximity mine. It's one of the few object flags that never gets cleared until the current program exits (tactical.exe, to be more specific). (this is what causes the proxy-mine bug in the collectors edition, but I'll not get into that as it's a slightly different matter).

 

Therefore,

 

For grenades: If you're going take grenades over to the next mission in a two parter, remember what turn you set the grenade on. It will only detonate if the current turn is equal or greater to the turn you set the grenade on (+ the grenade timer. (Note that every two numbers on the grenade timer are equal to one game turn). If you began a second parter mission, you'll have to wait until you've reached or passed the same turn you set the grenade before it will detonate.

 

For PDS mines: Always try to spend any mines you arm during the mission. Try not to end the mission while the're still armed. If you know you're entering a second part mission with some unspent proximity mines, I highly suggest you save the game and then exit back to your OS. Then restart the game. This will clear the 'armed proximity mine' flag for all the objects and you won't accidentaly step on a magna pack explosive (or, let's hope not, a PWT torpedo!) that's turned into a proximity device. The original proxy mien will end up a dud.

 

Even if you didn't do any of the above, the game's a bit messy with its memory management (they cut a lot of corners to speed up the game), so some values may get set anyway even though they weren't supposed to. So you shouldn't be too surprised that the battlescape stuffs up from time to time.

 

- NKF

 

P. S: Xenocide team: This is probably one of those occasions where you shouldn't imitate the original game(s). Use a proper countdown timer.

Edited February 23, 2004 by NKF

[johnb10000]

The grenades the solders were carrying were all armed before the start of the second part of the mission. You did I good job of explaining why the grenades were exploding and I will try to get rid of the primed grenades before going to the second part of the mission.

 

I have stopped using proximity grenades a long time ago. I have had missions where a solder was carrying a unarmed proximity grenade in his belt and got shot. When another solder walks by the body the grenade goes off. If the solder is still on the landing craft then most of the squad can be wiped out. This occurs in one part missions.

[Vanir]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I have my own grenade problem.

 

It seems that grenades in TFTD are indestructable! Is this true? I threw a PD grenade in front of the entrance of a UFO sub to catch any aliens that came wandering out. This was something I usually did in Xcom1. If no aliens came out that door and I decide to go in I would just toss a regular grenade near the PD/proximity grenade on the ground and the blast would destroy it. But these grenades in TFTD seem to withstand everything I throw at them. I eventually had to sacrifice a low-stat squadie to walk up and detonate the grenade so I could get in the sub.

 

Any way to destroy grenades in TFTD?

[[Blehm 98]]

grenades in TFTD are indestructible so that multiple grenades will go off if they are stacked instead of destroying each other

[[NKF]]

Well, there are two work-arounds.

 

1. Land on top of them and pick them up. They don't detect vertical movement.

2. Use something stronger. A sonic pulser is good.

 

If I'm not mistaken, the armour of a PDS mine is strong enough to withstand its own explosions, but not enough to withstand a pulser. At least, that's what I remember from a previous encounter.

 

Be warned that doing this can create a very similar effect to that in the Collectors Edition of UFO and TFTD with proximity explosives, where random objects take on the mine's effects. Yes, this can happen in the dos version as well.

 

- NKF

[Vanir]

You mean if a primed PD grenade is destroyed before detonating, it can cause the same problem that occurs when a mission ends with a undetonated primed PD grenade still on the battlescape? Interesting.

 

I'll have to test to see if you or Blehm are right. I haven't researched sonic pulsar or MI armor yet (still February) so I'll try a high explosive (TFTD equivalant) next time.