62 replies to this topic

[kafros]

http://www.llamalici...m/xcom/ufo.html

At the end of the page.

As I remembered: If you capture a live Navigator (any race), then a RANDOM topic is available (alien base, supply, terror, harvest etc)

It seems that you don't need a terrorist for Alien Terror, but an Alien Navigator. Although the first one seems more rational...

[Zombie]

You are indeed correct. In order to research all the different alien missions, you need 8 Navigators (mix or match, any race). Upon researching one navigator, you have a 1 in 8 chance of getting a particular mission. Missions:

• Alien Research
• Alien Harvest
• Alien Abduction
• Alien Infiltration
• Alien Base
• Alien Terror
• Alien Retaliation
• Alien Supply

To get info on the different UFO's, you need 8 Engineers. Again, mix or match any race, it doesn't matter. UFO's:

• Small Scout
• Medium Scout
• Large Scout
• Harvester
• Abductor
• Terror Ship
• Battleship
• Supply Ship

- Zombie

[MikeTheRed]

Along these lines, also don't forget that Medics give random info on the various alien races.

Thus you can get e.g. info on a live cyberdisk, even if they all explode if you kill them.

[Zombie]

The problem with Medics is that the info they give is random depending on what is left. If you never did any research into alien life forms and start off interrogating a medic, you stand a 2 in 22 (or 1 in 11) chance of getting info on a live Sectopod or Cyberdisc. I always suggest researching all the corpses and live aliens that you can get your hands on. Then kidnap a few Medics to fill in any blanks. You have a much better chance of getting what you want (~100%) than wasting Medics on stuff you can get through the natural progression of the game.

There are 22 corpses and 20 live aliens you can normally recover (sans the live Sectopod and Cyberdisc).

• Sectoid & Sectoid Autopsy
• Snakeman & Snakeman Autopsy
• Ethereal & Ethereal Autopsy
• Muton & Muton Autopsy
• Floater & Floater Autopsy
• Celatid & Celatid Autopsy
• Silacoid & Silacoid Autopsy
• Chryssalid & Chryssalid Autopsy
• Reaper & Reaper Autopsy
• Sectopod Autopsy
• Cyberdisc Autopsy

The live info on the two robotic species can only be obtained through direct medic interrogation.

- Zombie

[NKF]

The other thing about medics is that the information they give will not provide any additional benefits from researching that particular species.

For example, if you researched a medic and got an ethereal, this won't give you the psi-labs. (or would it? Never bothered with it, personally)

It's more of a problem in TFTD and its Deep-Ones and Calcinites, but the above example still holds true.

- NKF

[Zombie]

True, that info has no bearing on the outcome of the game. But the interrogations and autopsies provide insight into the alien species which (sometimes) makes it easier to fight them. For instance, the game says that Snakemen are somewhat resistant to incendiary ammunition. That's nice to know. So is the fact that Silacoids are completely resistant to incendiary, and Mutons are partially resistant to AP shells. I could go on-and-on about this, but for once I'll cut it short.

- Zombie

[Zombie]

Perhaps it is, but this particular topic (or forum) is not the place to compare and contrast researching in the two games.

For example, if you researched a medic and got an ethereal, this won't give you the psi-labs. (or would it? Never bothered with it, personally)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nope, medics can’t give this info. Only a direct interrogation of an Ethereal (or Sectoid Leader/Commander) will net you Psi research. One stone cannot kill two birds in this instance.

- Zombie

[MikeTheRed]

Compare and contrast what.

Got aliens people. Lock and load! YESTERDAY!

[MikeTheRed]

Here's the requirements in the wiki

[Zombie]

The order is this:

You need to research any live alien to get the "Alien Origins" info. Then you need to research a live alien Leader or Commander to get "The Martian Solution" info. From here, you need to research a Live Commader to get "Cydonia or Bust". Then it's on to Cydonia if you have an Avenger.

- Zombie

[MikeTheRed]

Hiya,

There is no research topic called "Alien Leader" per se. It's just that when you research an alien leader, you get TMS.

I'm pretty sure that, if more than one project can be gotten from a particular alien, they queue something like this:

* The first alien you ever research, regardless of race or role, gives you Alien Origins

Then they start moving down their own "tracks" as shown on the wiki.

* First leader or commander: TMS

* Commander, after TMS is known: Cydonia Or Bust

Since commanders are harder to get than Leaders, try to use a Leader for TMS

As far as I know, you can only get one "answer" out of any one alien. So whomever you get Alien Origins from, you will not get anything else. Thus, use some throw-away Soldier that's not good for much else.

I'm pretty sure the above is correct - anybody step in if I missed anything. Maybe we should clarify the wiki.

MTR

[Zombie]

I probably wasn't clear. Say you finish research on a live alien. After this you have to research the topic "Alien Origins" to get that info. Once that is completed, you can go on to researching a live leader or commander to get the research topic "The Martian Solution". After that topic is researched, you can research the live Commander which will give the last research topic: "Cydonia or Bust". After that is done , you can go to Cydonia. Better?

- Zombie

[Zombie]

Almost there; so I research Alien Leader, once it's completed, do I have to research The Martian Solution or do I just get it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nope, you have to research the topic called "The Martain Solution" to continue on. No freebies here.

- Zombie

[MikeTheRed]

It's been so long since I've researched, Z, I didn't have it clear in my head...

So that means there's a whole new set of research to be done (starter aliens, as it were) that's left out of the listing of research projects, and total time estimates. In addition to UFO Type and End Game projects' times.

[NKF]

To put it another way The Martian Solution only becomes available for you to research when its prerequisites have been met: By first obtaining Alien Origins and then researching an Alien Leader/Commander, roughly in that order.

Mike, the minimalist guide to capturing aliens dictates that aliens are captured and researched in roughly in this order:

One of any Navigator (Nets Hyperwave decoder and alien origins), One of any Leader/Commander (The Martian Solution) and finally one (or another) of any Commander (Cydonia or Bust).

That's it. Only 3 aliens are necessary to complete the game and get all useful technologies. All the others are, well, simply for literary fluff at best.

- NKF

[MikeTheRed]

Arg, I was really remembering it wrong, then... one alien can give you more than one thing to research, as soon as he's done, eh? (As opposed to, a number of things, but one at a time... Step A, Step B, etc.)

Wow, NKF, that really boils it down! Never thought of it that way. Hmm... doesn't your minimalist approach need a sectoid leader/commander or ethereal as one of those three, to get Psi?

Azrael, I withdraw any previous advice I made on research

[NKF]

Oh yes, you're right. Forgot about psi. So you should be fine as long as you include a Sectoid Leader, a Sectoid Commander, an Ethereal Leader, an Ethereal Commander or even an Ethereal Nav(assuming they have navs or assuming you're really slow at getting your containment/abduction operation in operation).

With this in mind (and a mind probe, and lots of grenades), you can stream-line your abduction plans to the extreeeme(sic).

Hmm, I must remember to tuck this away on the wiki under research tips some time...

- NKF

Edited by NKF, 01 December 2005 - 11:56 PM.

[Zombie]

Arg, I was really remembering it wrong, then... one alien can give you more than one thing to research, as soon as he's done, eh? (As opposed to, a number of things, but one at a time... Step A, Step B, etc.)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, a single alien can net you multiple things. For instance, say the first alien you research is a live Muton Navigator. Not only will it divulge the Muton Species info, but it will also cough up a random UFO mission type, as well as the opportunity to learn about the Hyperwave Decoder and Alien Origins. You can kill 4 birds with one stone! Though I'm not sure how points are awarded for this type of research. The game may only appropriate the points for species info and not the Mission Info. Once we know where the points are stored in the game, then it will become clear.

Wow, NKF, that really boils it down! Never thought of it that way. Hmm... doesn't your minimalist approach need a sectoid leader/commander or ethereal as one of those three, to get Psi?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Like NKF said, you really need a Sectoid/Ethereal Leader for the first part and a Commander for the second. If you make the Sectoid Leader your second alien to interrogate (after researching Alien Orgins), you will get the Sectoid species info, as well as the opportunity to research the Psi-Lab and "The Martian Solution". To be a purist, the last alien should be the Ethereal Commander since it will tattle about its race too.

By the way, there are no Ethereal Navigators. That race only has Soldiers, Leaders or Commanders.

- Zombie

Edited by Zombie, 02 December 2005 - 12:20 AM.

[Zombie]

Hmm, that reminds me..
Zombie, could you post a list of what race has what ranks, please? (edit: or direct me to where I can find it)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sure, I'll just type them here. (I have the list memorized).

Floater

• Soldier
• Navigator
• Medic
• Engineer
• Leader
• Commander

Sectoid

• Soldier
• Navigator
• Medic
• Engineer
• Leader
• Commander

Snakeman

• Soldier
• Navigator
• Engineer
• Leader
• Commander

Ethereal

• Soldier
• Leader
• Commander

Muton

• Soldier
• Navigator
• Engineer

Note: For alien craft/missions which have Mutons, a Muton soldier is substituted for the ranks not shown. For alien craft/missions which have Ethereals, a Leader is substituted for the missing ranks (if needed). This means that even the Medium Scout can have Ethereal Leaders present. It also makes those missions more difficult to complete.

- Zombie

[Zombie]

Sure. Let's say you pay a visit to a Superhuman Battleship. The usual crew compliment would look something like this:

8-12 Soldiers
2 Navigators
2 Engineers
2 Medics
3 Leaders
1 Commander
4-6 Terrorists

Because Mutons don't have all the ranks listed, they substitute soldiers in place of the other ranks:

8-12 Soldiers
2 Navigators
2 Engineers
2 Soldiers (as Medic replacements)
3 Soldiers (as Leader replacements)
1 Soldier (as Commander replacement)
4-6 Terrorists

Combined, the revised crew compliment for the Muton Battleship will look like this:

14-18 Soldiers
2 Navigators
2 Engineers
4-6 Terrorists

As a second example, let's look at a Superhuman Large Scout. Usually, it has the following crew compliment:

3-8 Soldiers
1-2 Navigators
2-3 Engineers

But Ethereals are different since they do not have Navigators or Engineers:

3-8 Soldiers
1-2 Leaders (as Navigator replacements)
2-3 Leaders (as Engineer replacements)

Revised loadout:

3-8 Soldiers
3-5 Leaders

See what I mean? The Large scout normally doesn't have Leaders present, but with Ethereals, you could see anywhere from 3-5!

If you want to see the crew loadouts for each UFO, see Danial's website here. Hope this helps.

- Zombie

Edited by Zombie, 02 December 2005 - 01:07 PM.

[Zombie]

Okay, let's say you have alien origins researched already. When you interrogate a live Sectoid Leader, it will spill the beans about the research topic called "The Martian Solution". Doesn't matter if you actually research this topic right away or wait. What I'm trying to say is that once a topic becomes available for research, you can't go and get another leader and get that info again.

If you do capture an Ethereal Leader, it will show up as a viable research topic. You can research it if you want, and you may get Ethereal species info out of it, but you cannot get the research topic TMS again since that is already unlocked.

This brings up a good point. If you capture a ton of aliens with the same rank and species and stuff them all into the Alien Containment module, they will all be available to research. Say you capture 10 live Sectoid Soldiers. The first interrogation of "Sectoid Soldier" will only yield species info about the Sectoid (and possibly the option to research "Alien Origins"). After the successful completion of this topic, you can go back into the research screen and another Sectoid Soldier will be listed. You can research it, but it can't give any new information. And of course, when you finish that, there are 8 more Sectoid Soldiers waiting (usually only one shows up on the research screen at a time).

So you have to be careful when researching live aliens to make sure you don't start a project which will not yield any new results. That wastes valuabe research time, as well as part of the scientists salary. Though, I'm sure you guys have eliminated this unfortunate "bug" in Xenocide.

- Zombie

[MikeTheRed]

Lots of great stuff here...

Danial, if you ever find a place to put a listing of all those UFO stats on one wiki page (as opposed to all the different missions), much like your website, that'd be cool. Another thing that occurred to me is that I wish your nice stats had a "total aliens" column (even if it would be a range). Example: Medium Scout, Beg/Exp, would be 3-6 total. (Which actually brings up a question... is there a cap on the total number, or can one truly add all the maxima?)

Zombie, I know I've definitely seen the case that a player will hold on to a ton of aliens, just because they can all give you the one, same research topic. But I could swear that all the extra "ditto" aliens simply disappeared when you finally did research one of them. I thought wrong?

Otherwise, how would Containment modules ever get empty unless somebody only got exactly the aliens that they needed? I went kinda nuts in my recent game, stunning everybody for the fun of it, but Containment is entirely empty at all bases, now that all research is done. I can't recall not getting a topic from any of them (i.e., researching just to "clear containment of extras"). Maybe I wasn't paying attention and/or did actually capture pretty much on target?

[Zombie]

Another thing that occurred to me is that I wish your nice stats had a "total aliens" column (even if it would be a range). Example: Medium Scout, Beg/Exp, would be 3-6 total. (Which actually brings up a question... is there a cap on the total number, or can one truly add all the maxima?)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, I did something like that a while back. Right, its a post in the Ufo Stats topic here.

Zombie, I know I've definitely seen the case that a player will hold on to a ton of aliens, just because they can all give you the one, same research topic. But I could swear that all the extra "ditto" aliens simply disappeared when you finally did research one of them. I thought wrong?

Otherwise, how would Containment modules ever get empty unless somebody only got exactly the aliens that they needed? I went kinda nuts in my recent game, stunning everybody for the fun of it, but Containment is entirely empty at all bases, now that all research is done. I can't recall not getting a topic from any of them (i.e., researching just to "clear containment of extras"). Maybe I wasn't paying attention and/or did actually capture pretty much on target?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Could be. But I always have "spares" clogging the AC module. There are only 2 ways to clean out these modules. First is to research all of them. That might take a while. The second method (which I concocted) is to transfer those "spares" to another base with an Alien Containment module. While those "spares" are in transit, dismantle the AC module at the target base. Voila! The aliens are permanently gone. Great way to rid you base of all those redundant aliens.

- Zombie

[MikeTheRed]

Thanks Z, maybe my bad memory strikes again.

That's correct, Azrael.

[Zombie]

You need a live alien Navigator - any live alien navigator will do. And the structure is called a Hyperwave Decoder. The "Transmission Resolver" is the TFTD equivalent.

- Zombie

[Sharp]

I always though Engineers also gave HWD as well as Navigators. Also dont soldiers give mission information as well as navigators??? (Once you have researched the species that is)

[NKF]

Oh trust me, you only have to ask any number of players here who've had to clear a containment brimming with soldiers... no, they're 100% redundant after you've obtained their species information.

As for engineers, they only give ship information.

- NKF

[MikeTheRed]

Azrael, whatever I say, bet hard against it

[MikeTheRed]

Actually I'm in a very weird suspended animation status.

I fired up XCOM after having not played it in 10 years, and I have yet to finish the first game I started again, half a year ago. Got into analysis.

Real players regularly trample over my observations

Ok, enough of being maudlin

[kafros]

Here's one:

Tech tree.pdf

A JPEG version of it, if you prefer.

I had tracked a complete version somewhere before... but where? <_< I'll have a look at it