76 replies to this topic

[muxec]

How do you combat tactically? What do you select on briefing screen?

I (noob) think, that brainsuckers are easier to destroy without being brainsucked on real time, but more powerful units (multiworms) are more dangerous in real time.

Also i see that real time is faster.

I use RT in buildings aginst aliens.
I use TB against human (sirius) or inside UFOs.

[Brute]

i play %100 real time!!! Why? Because it is the REAL LIFE. The game becomes more realistic as you play real time. I DO NOT care about my score. In real time mode you only position your soldiers, give them the commands -safe,cautious,aggressive- and watch them like a commander.
Also, i had a soldier with high speed -about 80 or like-. i used him to avoid the counters in cult buildings and steal the psi-clones. You can never do those in TB. But of course, TB combat is much more tactical than the RT. But i don't consider x-com as a strategy game, it is a "real life combat simulation" for me

[Brute]

none

[muxec]

I play RT only when i do not have accurate soliders. In midgame I have accurate soliders it allows dealing with poppers and brainsuckers. When your accuracy is low RT is best way of killing suckers.

[Brute]

i think turn based and real time must be a CHOICE
not a TACTICAL SELECTION

[muxec]

It is a tactical selection, becouse tactics for RT and TB are different.

[Brute]

ok it can be a tactical selection, but it must depend on YOU, not your mission.
i just DON'T approve selecting TB for humans and RT for brainsuckers.
if you use TB against humans and kill them easily then YOU MUST use TB against brainsuckers. -computer doesn't have the tactical chance to change his tb or rt isn't it

We call this FAIR PLAY!!

[Alien's Nightmare]

I use real time battles only.It is better i think.And i used timed in xcom 1&2 enough!!

[Dark Schneider]

Exhausted from TB of X-COM1&2, I'm playing 100% realtime in Apoc..It's fast...that's why..And my troops never died even once... :alientalk: :plasma:

[Brute]

Exhausted from TB of X-COM1&2, I'm playing 100% realtime in Apoc..It's fast...

The building plans are very complicated in x-com3 -ever go on a mission in evonet water purifier -
That's why realtime suits better to apocalypse...

[Extralucas]

Real Time makes anything faster, and in this case, a little easier. I sure could use TB if it would work like in JA2 where RT was turned on when there was no enemies in your LOS and enemies didn't see you too. It was getting back to TB when battle started. I liked TB in X-Com 1 because those maps were quite little and I hadn't to spend tens of turns on looking for UFO. Worser situation was in X-Com2 where maps were bigger, and for some inert reason, transporters were landing farer from USO (why? X-Com team is suposed to get into ufo, kill anything inside, and anything outside. The're not coming there on holidays to look at countryside, but to do quick, short, and efficent action)

Edited by Extralucas, 01 May 2003 - 09:17 AM.

[BurnThemALL]

I'm also a JA2 fan... But that's a different story.

I only use realtime mode because that way I can watch the flames while I throw my grenades. :crazy:

I still remember the search for a left over sectoid in UFO 1 in turn based mode... Those were hours I'd rather have back...

Edited by BurnThemALL, 01 May 2003 - 10:23 AM.

[Extralucas]

I'm also a JA2 fan... But that's a different story. 

I only use realtime mode because that way I can watch the flames while I throw my grenades.  :crazy:

I still remember the search for a left over sectoid in UFO 1 in turn based mode... Those were hours I'd rather have back... 

Flames are good argument for nearly everything, for you, aren't they?

And TB in case of searching for one or two survivors has benn solved by allowing aliens to escape from battlefield what can be an advantage of TB.

[Brute]

i am also a JA2 fan...

i were making a patch for the ja but left it half

i was planning to adjust the weapons for REAL damage
-you know, you get a LAW rocket on your face, but it only gives 60 damage-

i'll open a topic here and ask for your ideas for my patch, ok?

[BurnThemALL]

Maybe this is now very off-topic but...

Do you know if we get someday Jagged Alliance 3? I heard that SirTech got bancrupt.

I LOVE JA2 and wish that there would be a new version. Funniest weapon was the CAWS rifle. :psychosanta:

I shot with it right through a coke dispenser and killed 2 enemies, standing behind it. :laser: :crazy:

"i was planning to adjust the weapons for REAL damage
-you know, you get a LAW rocket on your face, but it only gives 60 damage-"

yes and then grenades should do much more damage!

[Cubik]

Can't we do what APOC did? Give the player a choice between realtime and turnbased.

[Brute]

That would be impossible.

1st problem is the weapons. You know the bullets are very slow. So you should make new graphics for weapons.

2nd problem is the AI. Our man has no AI . So you should write some AI routines for your men.

[dipstick]

Real time all the way, I have nearly completed the game WITH NO LOSSES that way! The only possible problem would be the squad v grenades - I just move them fast! Also medikits are frequently used - but ANY alien in LOS gets made into a scale coat, or has a little nap.

[j'ordos]

Maybe this is now very off-topic but...

Do you know if we get someday Jagged Alliance 3? I heard that SirTech got bancrupt. 

Read this somewhere a while ago...

RPGDot: Hi Linda, Hi Robert! Please tell us, what happened to you & to Sir-Tech in 2002.


Robert: Hi, nice to hear from you again.  I took some time off to spend with my family - the first time I have done this - and loved it.  Almost didn't come back, but I did.  I still love the gaming industry.  I am involved with several friends helping them with their companies.  I don't want to name these companies, but I am sure you will have heard of them.  They are all great veterans in the gaming industry and have much more to contribute to it.  Also, I continue with Sirtech, but on a much smaller scale.  On top of all of this, I also continue to look for any interesting new opportunities to become a part of.  Best place to reach me is through the general inquiries section of the Sir-tech.com web site.
RPGDot: Is Sir Tech gone now or are you still running it? 


Robert: No, it is still going.



RPGDot: Linda, I understand you were employed by Strategy first for a short time. What happened there? What did you work on?


Linda: Yes, I was employed there for a year and a bit.  Unfortunately their situation required them to close their Ottawa office so I and the rest of the team found ourselves suddenly unemployed.  In all fairness, what I was working on there should just remain a mystery.  Though I'm sure there were rumors in abundance, it's pretty irrelevant now.



RPGDot: How are chances to see Jagged Alliance 3 one day?


Robert: Chances are excellent.
RPGDot: Are you currently working on any projects, like trying to conclude any of Sir Tech series? How many of the Ex-SF people are there available as of today?


Linda: As we had indicated in the press release we put out in late December, Ian Currie & I are working to find funding for our team of people.  This is primarily the team of people from Sirtech Canada that went to Strategy First with us in September 2001, though we have gained a couple of new members since then. They are all on-board with us in the pursuit of a new venture and we've definitely gotten some interesting leads.



RPGDot: Is there any chance of seeing you all return to work together?


Linda: We believe that we have a really solid chance of the team staying together to work on future projects. Ian & I have a lot of respect for the capabilities of everyone on the team and the fact that we've worked together successfully for many years should be attractive to anyone who knows how difficult it is to build a solid game development team.  We are following some very interesting prospects.



RPGDot: And how are chances for a Wizardy 9?


Robert: Yes, absolutely the chances are very good.  I can not tell you much more than this.  When some decisions are taken, and I have something to report, I will contact you.

Edited by j'ordos, 28 July 2003 - 03:44 PM.

[BurnThemALL]

Thank you very much for posting this for me j'ordos!!! :happybanana:

I LOVE Jagged Alliance 2... :uzzi:

[dipstick]

Never heard of it, and please continue this conversation in off topic or PM.

Edited by dipstick, 30 July 2003 - 03:40 AM.

[Extralucas]

TB builds the mood. Every turn, every hidden movment is waiting... Will this shot hit? Will that alien comeback and kill me or he didn't notice me... In RT, which resmbless real life more, there's just an action. You run into the UFO and kill everything in sight... Or wait infont of UFO doors... Besides I guess Apoc is too big for TurnBased (vide what I said about TFTD).

[pauloko]

I like TB but it is way too time consuming. I could stand it if I didn't have to watch every civilian run around like a 12 year old with ADD every time I end a turn. I wonder if there's a way to turn that off.

[Blehm 98]

Kill all the civilians?

[Tsereve]

Use psi to gather them into a room w/ one one-space door blocked by a single psi agent with dual stungrapples. the moment they wake up, you have 2 ways to stun them! also builds reaction, accuracy, psi.

back on-topic, real-time is much easier in the beginning ( brainsuckers and poppers!). As the game progresses, TB gives the aliens an actual fighting chance. The main problem with this reasoning is that entropy missiles make your soldiers go :crying: every time in TB. i usually just stick to RT.

[sir_schwick]

In Apoc TB is way to slow due to building design. You did not command more soldiers, but it sure felt like it for some reason in Apoc. Also, most weapons in UFO Defense and even TFTD killed in one or two shots. The weapons in Apoc seemed really impotent. IN the early game raiding is 10 times more dangerous than the aliens.

RT works better for Apoc design, but I preferred the feel of TB. I would really be interested in what a WE-GO system would look like.

[Tsereve]

In Apoc TB is way to slow due to building design.  You did not command more soldiers, but it sure felt like it for some reason in Apoc.  Also, most weapons in UFO Defense and even TFTD killed in one or two shots.  The weapons in Apoc seemed really impotent.  IN the early game raiding is 10 times more dangerous than the aliens.

RT works better for Apoc design, but I preferred the feel of TB.  I would really be interested in what a WE-GO system would look like.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, the buildings are bigger in Apoc, or at least they have more rooms and forked paths to check. Anyway, combing them takes longer. Also, you have less soldiers usually, or the same amount at best.

Although your weapons do less damage (or the aliens are just tougher) you can fire many more shots per turn in TB. And the rate of fire in RT is much faster, too.

[Ectoplasm]

Real-time for me. Part of why the first game works so well with the turn-based system is the creepy atmosphere, when you can suddenly see a reaper hound standing three squares behind you! Apocalypse doesn't have nearly the same atmosphere, since all aliens and civilians look like cartoons, so it works better as an "action" game. Even the dirty poppers, who look AMAZINGLY wicked in the ufopaedia, just look like something out of a children's book in the actual game. And why are all aliens in such bright and happy colours?

Also, it's very rewarding to watch your soldiers just SHOWER toxic darts or disruptor beams or whatever into an alien squad. And it doesn't take FOREVER to complete even the routine raids.

[Tsereve]

Most of the reason for the lightened atmosphere (aside from the lack of night time, and bright colors of the aliens, and the overall cartoonish graphics) is that once you get Disruptor Armor, there isn't a weapon in the game that'll deliver a one-hit KO to you, or even a 2-hit one. In the first two games, even with Flying/Magnetic Ion Armor, you could be killed in 1 shot by some of the more powerful weapons.

[sir_schwick]

It annoyed me that Apocalypse combat seemed more like UT than Rainbow Six. RS multiplayer was so tense because one shot usually meant you were dead. In UFO DEFENSE, being the first shooter often meant you were alive. That made Smoke Grenades and Motion Sensors very useful, along with remote explosives.

[Tsereve]

And if the storyline is after Interceptor, you should have researched synthetic elerium by now, so why can't you have Heavy Plasmas? That'd make it a lot easier

[Exo2000]

Well, you don't have synthetic elerium. You have real elerium. It's used as "liquid gold" by companies, mostly. It's rare so it's limited to Plasma Pistol clips and that's about it.

And PP's aren't too shabby either. Nice Lawpistol replacement.

[Tsereve]

But you had to research Synthetic Elerium in Interceptor (before Apoc in the timeline) to finish the game, iirc. . .oh well.

Plasma Pistols are my favorite weapon before Disruptors come out. One-handed, good accuracy, nice ROF, very powerful. . .plus it looks cool

But they've still got nothing on the original Plasma Pistols. One shot can't even kill a civie! Whilst in the original, one shot could sometimes kill a soldier with Personal armor.

[Exo2000]

Not my modified version! Mehehehe. Tweaked up to be a badass six-shooter, not unlike a revolver.

[Blehm 98]

Hmm, in the apoc UFOPÆDIA it says that solmine mines Elerium
If you research synthetic elerium before apoc, then that means that interceptor has a very major problem in that it is not the same. Also, was it interceptor of Enforcer where the final boss was a gigantic etherieal? I have never believed in their being multiple bosses and a super boss at the end in any game like Xcom, it ruins the atmosphere. I just have never liked the bosses thing, along with the fact that if you think about it the term "Boss" is a terrible way to describe the strongest enemies, i'm sorry, but it is the truth

[NKF]

Either everyone in Apocalypse has grown a tougher hide (or laced their skin with an armour mesh like the Deep Ones from TFTD (or the agents in the Syndicate games)) or the weapons are lower powered civilian versions. It's easier to think about it this way - it's hard to deny the respect we have for the capabilities of the weapons in the original games.

The plasma sword is perhaps the most powerful plasma weapon available, and it is indeed much more powerful than the devestator cannon (a bit more damage and faster)! However, the devestator cannon beats it because it has better range (yes - anything greater than 1.5 tiles is quite a significant difference in range) and a larger energy cell. But get an enemy up close, and you can rip them to shreds very quickly.

Actually, devestators can still be considered one-two shot kill weapons, even if you're wearing full disrupter armour.

---

blehm: It was Enforcer that had the ethereal boss (only on one of the harder level difficulty levels). Didn't like it myself. But the ethereal wasn't as bad as the grotesque boss (can't even remember its name) on the football field. That one was just awful.

Technically, UFO and TFTD had thier bosses as well - but we never really cared about the boss in the same way we cared about the minions. The bosses were just mission objectives. The Bosses in Enforcer were just puzzles.

- NKF

Edited by NKF, 13 July 2005 - 11:49 PM.

[Blehm 98]

Yeah, depending on where you are hit you can be killed or seriously maimed just by a single Devastator shot, and two shots in open places is even worse

[Exo2000]

Through "field testing", the only way to survive a direct hit from a Devastator Cannon shot in anything less than Disruptor Armour is to have around 200+ HPs.

And even then, it can be -VERY- close. :|

[Tsereve]

There's a simple formula for victory in Apoc:

(power_swords+teleporters)*(autocannon^he)=

[Pherdnut]

I'm not a real time hater and dig games like the Homeworld series and a lot of that Blizzard stuff, but TB is what makes the game fun for me. That and the RTS component of Apoc is just... weird to me. Sure the environments are huge compared to the previous games but being able to run really makes up for that. My problem is that I want to to do a strategy guide on the game as a prototype for a site I'm working on and I have no interest in covering the RTS portion of tactical combat.

[Outlawstar15a2]

ok it can be a tactical selection, but it must depend on YOU, not your mission.
i just DON'T approve selecting TB for humans and RT for brainsuckers.
if you use TB against humans and kill them easily then YOU MUST use TB against brainsuckers. -computer doesn't have the tactical chance to change his tb or rt isn't it

We call this FAIR PLAY!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"This is war soldier, this isn't about 'playing fair'! You want to club your enemy over the head before he even spots you and if sneaky, unfair, or dirty tactics or exploits allow you to do that, then so be it. After all do you want to walk home or go home in a leather body bag?"

As for me I play 100% Real Time. I loved TB from X-Com 1 and 2 but I also love the chaos, demented, fast paced action of RT I can't get enough of watching a full squad of 36 with various weapons totally lay waste to a field or office building while duking it out with poppers skeletoids and other alien forces especially when those 'mega spawns'? Start showing up in tactical missions and literally saturates the screen with firepower. I love shooting matches where people die in droves.

[Outlawstar15a2]

In Apoc TB is way to slow due to building design.  You did not command more soldiers, but it sure felt like it for some reason in Apoc.  Also, most weapons in UFO Defense and even TFTD killed in one or two shots.  The weapons in Apoc seemed really impotent.  IN the early game raiding is 10 times more dangerous than the aliens.

RT works better for Apoc design, but I preferred the feel of TB.  I would really be interested in what a WE-GO system would look like.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Funny somehow I found the early game in Apoc to be easier then in X-Com 1 or 2 not that it was hard back then either but easier is easier. For one thing the weapons and technologies at the beginning of the game will take you further then their X-Com 1 or 2 equivalents I was trashing the alien city and was armed with nothing but earth weapons and it really worked! I couldn't pull that in Cydonia or T'leth.

[sir_schwick]

In Apoc TB is way to slow due to building design.  You did not command more soldiers, but it sure felt like it for some reason in Apoc.  Also, most weapons in UFO Defense and even TFTD killed in one or two shots.  The weapons in Apoc seemed really impotent.  IN the early game raiding is 10 times more dangerous than the aliens.

RT works better for Apoc design, but I preferred the feel of TB.  I would really be interested in what a WE-GO system would look like.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Funny somehow I found the early game in Apoc to be easier then in X-Com 1 or 2 not that it was hard back then either but easier is easier. For one thing the weapons and technologies at the beginning of the game will take you further then their X-Com 1 or 2 equivalents I was trashing the alien city and was armed with nothing but earth weapons and it really worked! I couldn't pull that in Cydonia or T'leth.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is what I meant, that raiding human factions was more dangerous than the impotent aliens.

[komninosm]

When I was playing UFO 1 on my Amiga, many many years ago, I loved it, but after finishing it a few times, something bothered me. It wasn't realistic because of turn based combat. I wished back then for a way to move all your units simultaneously, yet with pause available so you could give orders and it remained a mind game. I didn't want reflexes to play a role at all. Many years later, Apoc realised those fantasies for me. It was simply amazing. As if they were inside my mind.
Games don't have to be realistic to be fun. UFO 1 was fun for sure. But when you start to feel a game as almost real, such things start to bother you a bit.
Apoc fixed all such problems for me. No more stupid turn based illogical combat. No more having half the squad stay inside the landing vehicle and only use uber psionics.
If only Apoc had the atmosphere of UFO 1. Still Apoc had many wonderful new features. Better air combat customization. Corporation diplomacy. New guns and enemies. It was good. But I still would like to see a mod or something, using the Apoc engine or similar, of UFO 1, with all its wonderful aliens and stuff.

[Outlawstar15a2]

When I was playing UFO 1 on my Amiga, many many years ago, I loved it, but after finishing it a few times, something bothered me. It wasn't realistic because of turn based combat. I wished back then for a way to move all your units simultaneously, yet with pause available so you could give orders and it remained a mind game. I didn't want reflexes to play a role at all. Many years later, Apoc realised those fantasies for me. It was simply amazing. As if they were inside my mind.
Games don't have to be realistic to be fun. UFO 1 was fun for sure. But when you start to feel a game as almost real, such things start to bother you a bit.
Apoc fixed all such problems for me. No more stupid turn based illogical combat. No more having half the squad stay inside the landing vehicle and only use uber psionics.
If only Apoc had the atmosphere of UFO 1. Still Apoc had many wonderful new features. Better air combat customization. Corporation diplomacy. New guns and enemies. It was good. But I still would like to see a mod or something, using the Apoc engine or similar, of UFO 1, with all its wonderful aliens and stuff.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

slim chance to port the Apoc engine to the original game would require a complete re programming of UFO1 and since UFO's source code was never released that ain't happening. And I'm not a programming expert but the fact UFO was a DOS game and APOC was for early win 9x Iguess that has to be factored in as well as UFO and APOC's input/output codes would be very different from each other.

[komninosm]

I was more like thinking of a mod for Apoc, of sorts. You simply replace all the Aliens and weapons and stuff with the old (only a few can't be done easily). There's still the problem of the cityscape vs earth though...

[sir_schwick]

I remember the most disappointing loss going from Enemy Unknown to Apocalypse was the loss of suspense and danger. In Apoc you could go around the corner with reasonable certainty you would only be wounded if the enemy was waiting, if that much happened to you. Now each corner you crossed was simply another corner, of which there was a lot.

Also, I felt like I had very little control over how my troops approached anything. It was too much like a large scale RTS for a game that is designed to be simulating squads.

Although if you had lethal weapons, then it would be frustrating when your RT guys kept going into fire less carefully then you would have.

[Sorrow]

I made a mod that increases firepower to UFO levels. Playing with lethal weapons is a lot more fun.
Sadly, none of editors allows to change armor values, which means that the mod is unbalanced .

Edited by Sorrow, 22 June 2006 - 10:49 AM.

[komninosm]

Apoc'd can change armour values. Ask J'ordos.

EDIT: On second thought, maybe you were talking about alien skin armour too and I think only the human equipment can be changed. I don't know.

Edited by komninosm, 22 June 2006 - 09:51 PM.