Jump to content


Alien Numbering System


  • Please log in to reply
92 replies to this topic

#51 stewart

stewart

    Programming Department

  • [Xenocide Senior Members]
  • 10,528 posts

Posted 30 November 2005 - 10:17 PM

Revised Numbers:
Posted Image

I'll fix the "grainyness" later.
Posted Image
I'm starting to like the heavy cannon more and more.

#52 ATeX

ATeX

    Sound Department

  • Xenocide Inactive
  • 545 posts

Posted 01 December 2005 - 06:42 AM

Well, I finally took 5 mins to create these images of a simple subdivided cube. This is what I meant by going 3D. Isometrically would be nice eh? ;)

cheers,

Thomas



Normal perspective


Isometrically


#53 stewart

stewart

    Programming Department

  • [Xenocide Senior Members]
  • 10,528 posts

Posted 02 December 2005 - 05:19 PM

Anyone noticed the base 64 cube I posted in the number topic? What do you think?


cheers,

Thomas

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Sure did but I'm not sure where you are going with this.
Posted Image
I'm starting to like the heavy cannon more and more.

#54 j'ordos

j'ordos

    Alien Concept Task Force

  • Xenocide Artwork Department
  • 5,059 posts

Posted 03 December 2005 - 03:20 AM

Revised Numbers:
Posted Image

I'll fix the "grainyness" later.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Perhaps you can create them as vector graphics? Makes scaling that much easier :)
"You can't trust your eyes if your imagination's out of focus" - Mark Twain
"The mind is like an umbrella, it functions best when open" - Walter Gropius
Posted Image
SNEKK BLOG U-LAR MEKHH! GAHGHH! RK!
GRRGH RGGHH SNORRTT GHACKHGG

Now presented in DoubleVision™ (where drunk)

#55 mikker

mikker

    Artwork Department

  • Xenocide Artwork Department
  • 2,211 posts

Posted 03 December 2005 - 04:34 PM

I was bored.

Could this be used for alien navigation? :P

Attached Files


Some people say that dreams are a portal to the subconscious. If that is so, I am a very disturbed person.

the truth about scientology

#56 j'ordos

j'ordos

    Alien Concept Task Force

  • Xenocide Artwork Department
  • 5,059 posts

Posted 03 December 2005 - 05:00 PM

I was bored.

Could this be used for alien navigation?  :P

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe with some glowmapping on the glyphs? :)
"You can't trust your eyes if your imagination's out of focus" - Mark Twain
"The mind is like an umbrella, it functions best when open" - Walter Gropius
Posted Image
SNEKK BLOG U-LAR MEKHH! GAHGHH! RK!
GRRGH RGGHH SNORRTT GHACKHGG

Now presented in DoubleVision™ (where drunk)

#57 mikker

mikker

    Artwork Department

  • Xenocide Artwork Department
  • 2,211 posts

Posted 03 December 2005 - 05:03 PM

I was bored.

Could this be used for alien navigation?  :P

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe with some glowmapping on the glyphs? :)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Oh, you mean glowing with an omnious green glow? ... Possible :P

The texture just needs to be made first, would make glowmaps more usable, right?

Some people say that dreams are a portal to the subconscious. If that is so, I am a very disturbed person.

the truth about scientology

#58 stewart

stewart

    Programming Department

  • [Xenocide Senior Members]
  • 10,528 posts

Posted 04 December 2005 - 09:39 AM

I was bored.

Could this be used for alien navigation?  :P

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Alien Calculator? :)
Posted Image
I'm starting to like the heavy cannon more and more.

#59 Astyanax

Astyanax

    Xnet Proof Task Force

  • Xenocide Creative-Text Departmen
  • 785 posts

Posted 04 December 2005 - 12:27 PM

I was bored.

Could this be used for alien navigation?  :P

Alien DDR? :D
EXCLUSIVE: Read the top-secret Creative Text Department Status Report by the Xenocide Internal Investigation Department!

#60 red knight

red knight

    Xenocide Project Leader

  • Xenocide Inactive
  • 3,310 posts

Posted 04 December 2005 - 12:38 PM

I dont think that would suit, lets wait for Vaaish... but it is a good idea nonetheless to have a couple of informative glyphs on the navigation console.

Greetings
Red Knight
Sourceforge Nick: flois - Federico Andres Lois
Visit my blog at: flois.blogspot.com

Posted Image

Pookie cover me, I am going in.

#61 stewart

stewart

    Programming Department

  • [Xenocide Senior Members]
  • 10,528 posts

Posted 05 December 2005 - 08:40 AM

You know I was thinking about this very thing. How many degrees to the alien circle. Of course they have whatever they call radians but that's not like to be used to describe elevations or bearings.

BTW I was thinking 256 "degrees" to the circle.
Posted Image
I'm starting to like the heavy cannon more and more.

#62 ATeX

ATeX

    Sound Department

  • Xenocide Inactive
  • 545 posts

Posted 05 December 2005 - 09:43 AM

mikker, for glow effect in 3dsmax you might want to check out the TRON effect thread

good luck ;)


cheers,

Thomas

#63 stewart

stewart

    Programming Department

  • [Xenocide Senior Members]
  • 10,528 posts

Posted 05 December 2005 - 05:32 PM

Crap I need a symbol for decimal (comma to some).

Hmmm?
Posted Image
I'm starting to like the heavy cannon more and more.

#64 j'ordos

j'ordos

    Alien Concept Task Force

  • Xenocide Artwork Department
  • 5,059 posts

Posted 05 December 2005 - 05:46 PM

Crap I need a symbol for decimal (comma to some).

Hmmm?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not to forget negative values, square roots and nominator/denominator :D

Edited by j'ordos, 05 December 2005 - 05:47 PM.

"You can't trust your eyes if your imagination's out of focus" - Mark Twain
"The mind is like an umbrella, it functions best when open" - Walter Gropius
Posted Image
SNEKK BLOG U-LAR MEKHH! GAHGHH! RK!
GRRGH RGGHH SNORRTT GHACKHGG

Now presented in DoubleVision™ (where drunk)

#65 stewart

stewart

    Programming Department

  • [Xenocide Senior Members]
  • 10,528 posts

Posted 05 December 2005 - 06:09 PM

I've thought about imaginary and negative.
Posted Image
I'm starting to like the heavy cannon more and more.

#66 kafros

kafros

    Creative Text Department

  • Xenocide Creative-Text Departmen
  • 1,800 posts

Posted 07 December 2005 - 02:43 PM

Why don't they use just complex numbers? They are some hundred years ahead of us :P

#67 stewart

stewart

    Programming Department

  • [Xenocide Senior Members]
  • 10,528 posts

Posted 07 December 2005 - 03:03 PM

:OhBrother:
Posted Image
I'm starting to like the heavy cannon more and more.

#68 kafros

kafros

    Creative Text Department

  • Xenocide Creative-Text Departmen
  • 1,800 posts

Posted 07 December 2005 - 03:28 PM

Actually, that's exactly what I thought about it, but I wanted to give it a try anyway ROFL


Something simple, but interesting:
http://mathforum.org...e/numerals.html

I guess you've already seen this, it's really worth it!!! And has a whole lot of information about ~40 numeral systems :S
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base64

Edited by kafros, 07 December 2005 - 03:44 PM.


#69 stewart

stewart

    Programming Department

  • [Xenocide Senior Members]
  • 10,528 posts

Posted 07 December 2005 - 04:08 PM

Technically they do, everyone does. ALL numbers ARE complex numbers.
Posted Image
I'm starting to like the heavy cannon more and more.

#70 kafros

kafros

    Creative Text Department

  • Xenocide Creative-Text Departmen
  • 1,800 posts

Posted 07 December 2005 - 04:16 PM

Definitely... But knowing a subset doesn't mean you know the superset, that's my point :P

#71 stewart

stewart

    Programming Department

  • [Xenocide Senior Members]
  • 10,528 posts

Posted 07 December 2005 - 07:28 PM

. . . and what is the point of your point.
Posted Image
I'm starting to like the heavy cannon more and more.

#72 Qonfused

Qonfused

    Creative Text Department

  • Xenocide Inactive
  • 216 posts

Posted 12 December 2005 - 12:00 PM

mmmm math.
it would be logical for the aliens to use 1 numeric system as opposed to 2 as we do(the standard 10 base, and binary).
Also i dont think complex numbers should be included in their standard numeric system.
My doctor says that I have a malformed public duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fiber, and that I am therfore exused from saving Universes.

#73 Guest_Azrael_*

Guest_Azrael_*
  • Guests

Posted 12 December 2005 - 12:04 PM

Why do we even need Alien complex numbers?

#74 stewart

stewart

    Programming Department

  • [Xenocide Senior Members]
  • 10,528 posts

Posted 12 December 2005 - 12:24 PM

mmmm math.
it would be logical for the aliens to use 1 numeric system as opposed to 2 as we do(the standard 10 base, and binary).
Also i dont think complex numbers should be included in their standard numeric system.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Me to, I think Kafros is just having sport with us.
Posted Image
I'm starting to like the heavy cannon more and more.

#75 stewart

stewart

    Programming Department

  • [Xenocide Senior Members]
  • 10,528 posts

Posted 12 December 2005 - 12:24 PM

Why do we even need Alien complex numbers?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I'll cover it dont worry.
Posted Image
I'm starting to like the heavy cannon more and more.

#76 Qonfused

Qonfused

    Creative Text Department

  • Xenocide Inactive
  • 216 posts

Posted 12 December 2005 - 01:10 PM

complex numbers is rather handy for solving equations, but they make no sense what so ever.
(i)^2=-1
Its crazy i tell you.
My doctor says that I have a malformed public duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fiber, and that I am therfore exused from saving Universes.

#77 Guest_Azrael_*

Guest_Azrael_*
  • Guests

Posted 12 December 2005 - 01:22 PM

complex numbers is rather handy for solving equations, but they make no sense what so ever.
(i)^2=-1
Its crazy i tell you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am aware, have used them lots of times, but are you planning to solve Alien equations in Xenocide? :P

#78 Qonfused

Qonfused

    Creative Text Department

  • Xenocide Inactive
  • 216 posts

Posted 12 December 2005 - 01:25 PM

it would be cool...
My doctor says that I have a malformed public duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fiber, and that I am therfore exused from saving Universes.

#79 Guest_Azrael_*

Guest_Azrael_*
  • Guests

Posted 12 December 2005 - 01:38 PM

OMG :huh?:

#80 Qonfused

Qonfused

    Creative Text Department

  • Xenocide Inactive
  • 216 posts

Posted 12 December 2005 - 01:43 PM

ok, maybe not that cool, but still. you remember i like the technical stuff.
My doctor says that I have a malformed public duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fiber, and that I am therfore exused from saving Universes.

#81 Guest_Azrael_*

Guest_Azrael_*
  • Guests

Posted 12 December 2005 - 01:48 PM

you remember i like the technical stuff.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Right... who were you, again? :huh?:

#82 stewart

stewart

    Programming Department

  • [Xenocide Senior Members]
  • 10,528 posts

Posted 12 December 2005 - 02:04 PM

complex numbers is rather handy for solving equations, but they make no sense what so ever.
(i)^2=-1
Its crazy i tell you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Your example shows an imaginary number, although technically all numbers are complex numbers complex numbers are of the form (rectangular representation):

a+ib where a and b are reals and i is the square root of -1. Complex numbers allow the solution of all roots to all polynomials.
Posted Image
I'm starting to like the heavy cannon more and more.

#83 Qonfused

Qonfused

    Creative Text Department

  • Xenocide Inactive
  • 216 posts

Posted 12 December 2005 - 03:44 PM

Even though it might be argued that all numbers are complex. Refering to a number as complex is meaningless if it doesnt contain a imaginary value.
My doctor says that I have a malformed public duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fiber, and that I am therfore exused from saving Universes.

#84 stewart

stewart

    Programming Department

  • [Xenocide Senior Members]
  • 10,528 posts

Posted 12 December 2005 - 03:53 PM

or if it doesnt contain a real component as well.
Posted Image
I'm starting to like the heavy cannon more and more.

#85 Guest_Azrael_*

Guest_Azrael_*
  • Guests

Posted 12 December 2005 - 04:34 PM

:OhBrother:

#86 dan2

dan2

    Xnet Proof Task Force

  • Xenocide Inactive
  • 561 posts

Posted 13 December 2005 - 01:04 PM

One presumption is if the aliens are very advanced, they should have a very complex math, but the genius in math is the ability to solve in a very simple manner very complicated tasks.
The simplest math is the binary one, but al those strings tend to be quite long for rather small decimal numbers. Going to base 64 seems rather extreme, to me, but not impossible.
Base 4,8 or 16 would be convenient.
I bet aliens don't fly with pure math books for further reading, but rather they use that math for maps, navigation and computer input, so real numbers are faster to input and easier to interpret.
Another way would be they don't use algebra at all, but rather solve all problems geometrically.
Using complex numbers is not the answer here, in my view

#87 red knight

red knight

    Xenocide Project Leader

  • Xenocide Inactive
  • 3,310 posts

Posted 13 December 2005 - 01:53 PM

Well mathematically speaking complex numbers are just an orthogonal base in a 2 dimensions space, so there is no reason why they cannot think in a 2D universe instead of a 1D universe (of numbers of course) ;) ... but I agree that the result of using a 1D universe is needed for counting physical things; so you just need a couple of symbols and numbers, the rest are compositions.

Greetings
Red Knight
Sourceforge Nick: flois - Federico Andres Lois
Visit my blog at: flois.blogspot.com

Posted Image

Pookie cover me, I am going in.

#88 Qonfused

Qonfused

    Creative Text Department

  • Xenocide Inactive
  • 216 posts

Posted 13 December 2005 - 03:27 PM

Actually complex numbers extend a n-th dimensional vector field into a n+1 dimensional vector field, where the extra dimension is geometrically warped(as in making no geometric sense) into a form that is allows a imaginary path of solution to several mathematical problems that would require, without the use of complex numbers, hideous complex math.
Basically complex numbers make no sense, but help us solve problems more easily.

Anyway, using a numeric system with a base of 8, makes no less mathematical sense then making one with a base of 10, or 11 for that matter.
The only reason we use the 2 base numeric system in computers is that early computer memory,(and current for that matter) where based on magnetism, where a bit could either be magnetically charged, or not(a.k.a. 1 and 0).

A numeric system based on the genetic system would have a base of 4. As genes are coded with 4 nucleotides (or something like that).
My doctor says that I have a malformed public duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fiber, and that I am therfore exused from saving Universes.

#89 dan2

dan2

    Xnet Proof Task Force

  • Xenocide Inactive
  • 561 posts

Posted 13 December 2005 - 03:51 PM

Binary math, the math of 0 and 1, bring the simple in the world of complex, and it has the simplest multiplication and addition tables.
Conciseness is not an attribute of binary math, that's why sometimes people use larger power of 2 bases, like hexadecimal, to express binary numbers. That's why Stewart's proposal of a 64 base seems fine yet.
I hope that aliens, if they're smart, will "keep it simple"........or X-Corps operatives might never understand what those signs mean anyway

#90 stewart

stewart

    Programming Department

  • [Xenocide Senior Members]
  • 10,528 posts

Posted 13 December 2005 - 04:46 PM

Guys lets be a little logicall. Everyday numbers are gonna be just like people they arent gonna use complex numbers when they get change from Walmart.

Using 2^n can be explained by suggesting a cybernetic interface. Sure 64 is big but the babilonians used 60 BEFORE CALCULATORS (heck before the abacas for crying out loud).

I'll work out the symbology for all number sets but everyday number are gonna be no different than people.
Posted Image
I'm starting to like the heavy cannon more and more.

#91 kafros

kafros

    Creative Text Department

  • Xenocide Creative-Text Departmen
  • 1,800 posts

Posted 14 December 2005 - 03:43 PM

mmmm math.
it would be logical for the aliens to use 1 numeric system as opposed to 2 as we do(the standard 10 base, and binary).
Also i dont think complex numbers should be included in their standard numeric system.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Me to, I think Kafros is just having sport with us.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Collocation? I don't know what it means, but somehow I think it means that I said something just to say it... In which case, you are wrong!

Complex numbers are very useful in many application, which most people can't even imagine. Especially in electrical engineering. Greek 12th grade contains a lesson called "Ηλεκτρολογία", electrical engineering in free translation. That book contains "miracles", and it is the most compact source of information I've seen so far. It contains a lot of complex numbers.

My point: The Aliens use high-tech equipment such as Navigation Systems. That stuff definitely needs advanced mathematics, especially Vector mathematics. Thus, complex numbers may be useful there.

Calc 3D

If you think Aliens don't need complex numbers and vectors, no problem. I just proposed an idea.

But, I think that you will like D'ni numerals

Everyday numbers are gonna be just like people they arent gonna use complex numbers when they get change from Walmart.

Everyday people, probably not. Mathematicians? Maybe. Aliens?!?! I think Greys would be capable of that. Mutons and cyberdics "probably" won't need it :P

Edited by kafros, 14 December 2005 - 03:46 PM.


#92 stewart

stewart

    Programming Department

  • [Xenocide Senior Members]
  • 10,528 posts

Posted 14 December 2005 - 04:15 PM

Of course the aliens will have complex numbers but not for "everyday" use. They wont say we callected 13+i0 human specimens today, 5+i0 died in transfer.

And . . . ugh . . . do I remember the complex numbers in electrical engineering school. :(

Edit: The dni numberal have some similarities to what I have suggested.
Posted Image
I'm starting to like the heavy cannon more and more.

#93 stewart

stewart

    Programming Department

  • [Xenocide Senior Members]
  • 10,528 posts

Posted 18 December 2005 - 08:34 PM

I have drawn up the numbers using larger bit patterns to "smooth" them.

I have altered them to give them verticle clarity.

The light blue ones can look like language glyphs (like 0 and O).

Posted Image
Posted Image
I'm starting to like the heavy cannon more and more.