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#1 dipstick

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 03:54 PM

Don't know if this has been discussed - how about ARMED civilians??? On terror sites they try and take on aliens with pistols and rifles??
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#2 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 03:59 PM

Yeah, it's been discussed somewhere, like cops n that. Sure someone will post the thread if u ask nicely :)

#3 dipstick

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 04:09 PM

I meant generally, as in the occasional civ coming up and giving you cover. Then you medikit them when they step too close to a grenade. :D
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#4 j'ordos

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 04:11 PM

I don't think there'll be much left of them when they step too close to a grenade... :explode:
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#5 dipstick

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 04:15 PM

Well, you know what I mean!
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#6 Aosar

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 01:57 AM

Don't know if this has been discussed - how about ARMED civilians??? On terror sites they try and take on aliens with pistols and rifles??


While this is a good idea, first it should be restricted to police and local military having guns. Later we might add civilians with guns, but that should require additional coding. Ofcourse we can add guns to civilians everywhere and ignore the fact that many countries don't have guns available to the public? :huh:
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#7 miceless

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 02:22 AM

<imagines a civilian with a pistol and no armor trying to take on a muton terror site>

*shudder*
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#8 dipstick

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 02:26 AM

I know, but it would still make it realistic. I cannot see aliens or anyone going into a town, and civs not fighting!

Edited by dipstick, 03 August 2003 - 02:26 AM.

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#9 miceless

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 02:45 AM

I imagine they would all run for their lives. However, there might be the odd nutter with a gun, and that would be good fun. Perhaps if it was America that the terror site was in they could have sniper rifles and automatic weapons instead of pistols. :D
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#10 dipstick

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 02:53 AM

But it would be cool with police, and maybe SWAT teams helping!
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#11 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 05:20 AM

It aint there responsibility to help, it would be left 2 the army. Who have left it to you coz they can't deal. I agree with the odd nutter running at a Sectopod every now and then with a nade strapped to his chest yellin summint strange, or maybe a pissed Millwall fan tryin 2 bottle a Muton, but no police or swat. It'd be too easy with them helping.

#12 Puasonen

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 05:35 AM

Well police with gun wouldn't be that much for a help but it would be realistic and FUN! Sometimes even an american drunken civ could also "help" with a shotgun or pistol too. I definitely like this idea.
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#13 j'ordos

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 06:37 AM

Then what about the occasional fruitcake who believes the aliens are the messengers of god or something like that, and seeign you blast them all away they start picking on you :naughty:
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#14 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 06:50 AM

What, like the Xenocide version of Cirus?

#15 miceless

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 07:15 AM

Yeah! We could introduce a Sirius equivelent for us. Then we can all go raiding. :D
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#16 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 09:01 AM

LOL, that was one of my favorite things in Apoc :uzzi2: :explode:

Maybe u could raid military bases of countries that have signed pacts? And they could try and raid u? Wouldn't be that much work IMO, just a new map of military base, replace aliens with soldier with maybe some alien technology but they'd be crap, and 4 base attacks same thing.

#17 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 09:27 AM

Yeah a cult of sirius clone would be intresting. But think about it, in apoc the human weapons were reasonably good. It would be pretty fun to see a cultist shoot at your power armored guy with a pistol but would serve no real purpose. If we give them alien tech though...

Also, police, swat, and armies would be intresting and realistic. In the beginning, we could make it so that there are only a couple of police who survived. Once your weapons surpass the cops/whatevers then there would be more. The cops would always use basic human tech (no lasers) and would only have basic xcorps armor.

The problem with having cops etc is that they would need new skins. (You expect cops to be wearing blue, not camo green right?) ^_^
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#18 dipstick

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 09:59 AM

It would be especially good early in the game - imagine you have several wounded men, and some are about to die, when the last muton comes out of hiding. You reaction shoot it several times with laser pistols, but it doesn't work. Then a lone policeman or civ comes out armed with a normal pistol in each hand, and peppers the muton with bullets, and he falls!! :D
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#19 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 10:28 AM

Yeah a cult of sirius clone would be intresting. But think about it, in apoc the human weapons were reasonably good. It would be pretty fun to see a cultist shoot at your power armored guy with a pistol but would serve no real purpose. If we give them alien tech though...

Also, police, swat, and armies would be intresting and realistic. In the beginning, we could make it so that there are only a couple of police who survived. Once your weapons surpass the cops/whatevers then there would be more. The cops would always use basic human tech (no lasers) and would only have basic xcorps armor.

The problem with having cops etc is that they would need new skins. (You expect cops to be wearing blue, not camo green right?)  ^_^

Incidinery ammo? HE? Rocket launcher? I rest my case :D

#20 Fred the Goat

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 11:49 AM

It seems like it'd be cool to have cops help out. Not the whole force, but maybe the guy who just happened to be driving down the street when the aliens showed up. If it's the SWAT team, then it's an intentional strike against the aliens, and the whole team would be fighting them, and that'd be a bit too much help, IMO.

#21 j'ordos

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 01:27 PM

Maybe the SWAT headquarters was just down the road where the aliens attacked :D
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#22 dipstick

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 02:56 PM

That could be a possible addition later on.....
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#23 j'ordos

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 03:02 PM

Or there was just a military parade going on... :D
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#24 dipstick

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 03:05 PM

Ok, getting silly now.... but one cop occasionally on easy levels early on could be very helpful.
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#25 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 03:07 PM

Ah, it wouldnt matter when they came in, a pissed nutter or a cop should go mad at an alien with a pistol or summint, if only for comic value as u watch the muton laugh and send a plasma bolt straight 2 the head :LOL:

#26 Afflicted

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 06:30 PM

Ummm........ just wondering here, but isnt X-Com the best of the best. If your best of the best X-Com soldiers die against aliens with super tech and training, what chance does a fat American with a dirty Ak stand?

Now for my second point, why limit it to Police in Millitary, what if the Aliens attack barcalona during the running of the bulls? :beer:

#27 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 06:45 PM

Armed npcs are not so much for assistance in combat, they are more for comic relief. :explode:

Also, can we have a map where there are all of these stoned people who just wander infront of the alien's guns? Wait isn't that called a terror site? Nevermind

Anyway, I think that if aliens attacked any nation with an army/police force that that nation's authorities would respond.
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#28 miceless

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Posted 04 August 2003 - 12:31 AM

Ummm........ just wondering here, but isnt X-Com the best of the best. If your best of the best X-Com soldiers die against aliens with super tech and training, what chance does a fat American with a dirty Ak stand?

Absolutely none. Thats the whole point! :D

Now for my second point, why limit it to Police in Millitary, what if the Aliens attack barcalona during the running of the bulls?

They curse and wish they had brought the abduction ship not the terror ship. All that fresh meat!

Armed npcs are not so much for assistance in combat, they are more for comic relief.

Exactly.

Also, can we have a map where there are all of these stoned people who just wander infront of the alien's guns? Wait isn't that called a terror site? Nevermind

:LOL: Yeah, thats already in there. Be even better if they did it with a pistol though.

Anyway, I think that if aliens attacked any nation with an army/police force that that nation's authorities would respond.

Unless they had been told not to by some high power secret organisation? *cough*
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#29 warhamster

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Posted 04 August 2003 - 04:04 PM

I guess this basically means the aliens will steer clear of los angeles, eh? where everybody practically has a gun. :LOL:

#30 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 04 August 2003 - 04:51 PM

Yeah, and most of em would be so high they'd be like "Yo foo, I'm gonna smoke ur donkey boy, yo G am I trippin or is that a 6ft snake yo?"

#31 miceless

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Posted 05 August 2003 - 12:12 AM

Yeah, and most of em would be so high they'd be like "Yo foo, I'm gonna smoke ur donkey boy, yo G am I trippin or is that a 6ft snake yo?"

More likely...

"Yo foo, I'm gonna smoke ur donkey boy. yo G am I trippin or is that a ..." <sound of plasma fire> *sizzle*

or...

"Yo foo, I'm gonna smoke ur donkey boy, yo G am I trippin or ..." <sounds of a crysalid doing it's 'thing'>
"If it moves - kill it. If it doesn't move - kill it anyway, it might move later."

#32 Ancalagon

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Posted 12 August 2003 - 03:28 AM

SWAT team wouldn't be all that helpful, considering your the best of the best in all the millitaries in the world, and the SWAT team is only the best of the best of the local Farmington PD. Although they do have assault weappons :uzzi:

Also, my brother met a guy who had a TOW(or is it TOE?) missile. Apperently he had it from his days in in the army. maybe he could use that against the aliens.

Also maybe in xenocide the Civs could actually be people, instead of mindless zombies who walk in the line of fire of both sides? :blink:

#33 miceless

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Posted 12 August 2003 - 08:58 AM

The whole point of the armed civilian idea is that they get themselves killed or at least get in the way. It would be funny.

SWAT probably wouldnt make much difference, but it might be funny to have the odd cop come and help you.

And its a Tube Launched, Optically Tracked, Wire Guided (TOW) Missile. AFAIK it is not a SAM. Its anti tank i think. Or maybe anti position (bunker and stuff).
"If it moves - kill it. If it doesn't move - kill it anyway, it might move later."

#34 dipstick

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Posted 13 August 2003 - 01:54 PM

Talking about Sirius.... guess what I dug up......
I will reveal all very, very soon..... :naughty:
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#35 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 13 August 2003 - 01:56 PM

SWAT team wouldn't be all that helpful, considering your the best of the best in all the millitaries in the world, and the SWAT team is only the best of the best of the local Farmington PD. Although they do have assault weappons :uzzi:

Also, my brother met a guy who had a TOW(or is it TOE?) missile. Apperently he had it from his days in in the army. maybe he could use that against the aliens.

Also maybe in xenocide the Civs could actually be people, instead of mindless zombies who walk in the line of fire of both sides? :blink:

IMO all the Civ's should do is run around and hide n stuff, the AI would b a little wasted 4 anything more complicated I think.

#36 miceless

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Posted 13 August 2003 - 02:44 PM

In general I agree with you Jim, but the odd suicidal civ with a gun would be fun.
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Posted 13 August 2003 - 04:23 PM

Oh yeah, I like that, I was just sayin they shouldn't be much smarter than the ones in X-Com since it's a waste. Nutters with guns are cool :)

#38 j'ordos

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Posted 13 August 2003 - 04:51 PM

Heh, I would like them to be a bit smarter, even if that's only basic stuff like; not running into a fire, not trying to run up to that alien without a weapon, not positioning right between xcom agents and aliens, not running around in circles waiting to be blown away by that alien 10 metres further... The list goes on, but I guess I made my point ^_^
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#39 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 13 August 2003 - 05:35 PM

I agree with some of that, running in the line of fire is adds 2 the fun :) They should try not 2 put themselves in danger but they should panic, and their bravery should be VERY low so if they see an alien it is unpredictable what they would do. They may run in the way of a firefight but they shouldn't just do very dumb things. They should mostly run around and hid IMO.

#40 miceless

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Posted 13 August 2003 - 11:57 PM

Having the civs run around in your LoF was part of the fun. Youd be like
"If i dont shoot that sectoid then someones gonna die soon. However, that civ is right in the line of fire and this guy is a rookie... here goes. *plasma fire*"

What happened next? :D
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#41 Sabin

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Posted 14 August 2003 - 01:14 PM

I think that the police and SWAT should be added. The police more numerous(5-25 per terror mission), but less powerful weapons, and the SWAT with assult weapons, armors, and so on. However being rather limited in number (1-10 per terror mission.)

The reason for the rather high amounts of civilian armed forces, is because Xenocide would probably be able to support more aliens, probably up to 75+ due to new technology available. However, if the numbers of forces are to be adjusted to be similer to old-school X-COM, then the number of police and SWAT should be 10 and 5 respectively, which should delay the enemy for a significant amount of time. Enough, to at least, for X-COM to achieve certain goals.

I also support the idea of armed civilians being present.

#42 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 14 August 2003 - 01:20 PM

Firstly, if there was an alien attack then do u think Rent-a-cop would be called? Of cause not, they'd be too busy eating doughnuts and busting shoplifters :P They would lay a gold brick if they saw that and would leave it 2 the military. Which is us :)

A couple of drunk peeps with guns would be funny, but there shouldn't b any civs that dramatically effect gameplay like u suggest IMO.

#43 dipstick

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Posted 14 August 2003 - 01:23 PM

Hmmm, just imagine - a screen FULL of aliens, X-Corps personnel, and also SO19 (watch The Bill) :D
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#44 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 14 August 2003 - 01:27 PM

Oh yeah, I can imagine that.

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#45 dipstick

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Posted 14 August 2003 - 01:38 PM

*sound of plasma fire* 'ey, you could have someone's eye out with that! You are under arrest for the possession of an offensive *splat*

Fire!!

Maybe you could also aid the police, and they help you. eg police medics??
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Posted 14 August 2003 - 01:41 PM

Right, I'm gonna let some other peeps talk coz all my convo's end up like a football, I don't think adding peeps who help u would be a good idea. Ones 4 comedic value yes, but no extra help IMO.

#47 miceless

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Posted 14 August 2003 - 02:19 PM

Nah, i think we should stick to the occasional drunk idiot with a gun. SWAT and/or police would take away more than it put it i reckon.
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#48 Sabin

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Posted 14 August 2003 - 04:22 PM

Here are some reasons why I think the police and the SWAT would be present.

1: They would add some variety to the civilian presence.

2: It may reduce the amount of reloading saved games people do.(by somewhat preventing disasters, like your troops being mind controlled, or having your forces killed when they leave their dropship, without totally negating that factor.)

3: It is more realistic, due to the fact that police and the SWAT are supposed to attempt to elimnate threats, like armed robbers. In this case, aliens would probably count as such.

4: They can be opposition, if they thought X-COM was an enemy, too. In this case, it is a three-way battle.

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Posted 14 August 2003 - 04:28 PM

Here are some reasons why I think the police and the SWAT would be present.

1:  They would add some variety to the civilian presence.

2:  It may reduce the amount of reloading saved games people do.(by somewhat preventing disasters, like your troops being mind controlled, or having your forces killed when they leave their dropship, without totally negating that factor.)

3:  It is more realistic, due to the fact that police and the SWAT are supposed to attempt to elimnate threats, like armed robbers.  In this case, aliens would probably count as such.

4:  They can be opposition, if they thought X-COM was an enemy, too.  In this case, it is a three-way battle.

1. They would make the game easier.

2. Nothing is gonna reduce this, we are planning an Ironman type game where u get a set amount of saves per mission, maybe 1 or 2, so peeps can show that they aren't cheating :) Making the game easier is not the way 2 prevent peeps reloading.

3. SWAT would be overruled in a situation like this. If they weren't, why would u need X-Com 4?

4. I very much doubt if the world goverments would let local cops shoot at Earths only hope of survival. They would IMO be given orders tellin them 2 BTFO.

#50 Sabin

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Posted 14 August 2003 - 04:56 PM

In X-COM, did the majority of the people in the world already knew about the aliens and X-COM? If they did, I might understand about the police being ordered to not interfere, but otherwise, the police probably won't know very much, and probably send in a small force to deal with the problem, hoping the goverment doesn't find out. If they found two seperate forces fighting in their city, alien or human, they may take what they feel are appropriate measures.

As for why X-COM is needed: X-COM is an entity with the troops and equipment that are required in order to eleminate the alien menace. The police and SWAT, while quite good against most armed criminals, are not usually employed against military forces, and usually lack what is required to counter such forces sufficiently.

Now, as for making it easier, it probably may do so, but then again, the police and swat don't have to be particurly very good to slow down the aliens or X-COM a little. They are basically slightly stronger civilians with weapons and no armor.

The saving issue in this title probably can't be elminated altogether, but two or four less reloads can be quite good, depending on who you are.