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Snd - Active Music - Groundbattle


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#1 Cavoe

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Posted 10 June 2005 - 03:21 PM

Version 1, Lots of work needs to be done.

Groundbattle V1.0

:)

Edited by Cavoe, 10 June 2005 - 04:19 PM.


#2 ATeX

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Posted 11 June 2005 - 05:52 AM

ok, great follow up on your first concept.

The piano fits in nicely. I'd rather use low basses (strings) instead of violins of violas with it as the violins/violas are in the same frequency range as the piano and they fight for the lead. Let another/lower instrument work "togheter" with the piano instead of playing the exact same theme at the exact same height. Put the piano more in the back. Don't switch from one theme to another instantly. Keep in mind it's still ambient and needs to evolve very slowly. So little/slowly evolving modifications (even volume and little panning) would do. That's about it for now. More comment with the next version ;)


cheers!
ATeX

Edited by ATeX, 11 June 2005 - 07:24 AM.


#3 Cavoe

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Posted 11 June 2005 - 07:30 AM

Thanks ATex :D

Version 1.1
Extended length to accommodate some volume fades and replaced backing instrument with bass string. Second backing instrument is actually a harp :)

Groundbattle V 1.1

#4 ATeX

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Posted 11 June 2005 - 07:54 AM

much better already!

I wouldn't put the bell at the end of the track as it's already there in the beginning and when it loops it will end abruptly and start abruptly again, as if it were a damaged cd or similar. Just end the tune with something different so it can start over again with the bells.

now if you'd like to make a longer version, I'd eventually compose further on this track with more lines like it were a story. The piano harmony has enormous potential for adding more orchestration. Minor adjustments can always be made in the future.

Good work!



cheers,
ATeX

Edited by ATeX, 11 June 2005 - 07:57 AM.


#5 Cavoe

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Posted 11 June 2005 - 09:43 AM

I'm glad you like it :D

Messed with more fading. Added an interesting flute piece while I was messing arround trying to figure out what to do next with it. I might eventually make this longer, but I'm dry on ideas at the moment :blink2:

Also changed the ending per your advice.

Groundbattle V1.2

#6 ATeX

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Posted 11 June 2005 - 10:56 AM

interesting indeed, but, I think this type of music is more a style for fantasy games with wizards and whiches, or for a dramatic TV series, if you know what I mean.

What we need on the groundbattle is an ambient track that raises your neck hairs. It has to be as tactical, as freaky, as dark ambient as it can be. The theme that you play with the piano and flute is great. But try to compose it darker and more mysterious. For example, you could let the flute part being played by a horn or trombone on a deep level. And if you're going to add an orchestra, you can let it swell from time to time very instantly which gives a very aggressive effect. Just trying to give some suggestions. Be inspired by dark and mysterious tracks, and then, let your inspiration flow ;)


cheers,
ATeX

#7 Cavoe

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Posted 12 June 2005 - 07:04 PM

You right - It does have a fantasy feel to it :hmmm:

Groundbattle version 3, Now with a darker feel :D

Version 2 Didn't survive, I'm affraid :uzi2:

Groundbattle V3.0

I'm sure there's more work that needs to be done to is, so fire away ^_^

Lemme know what path I should follow This feel or the V1 feel OR if none of these are good :blink: (I'm kinda leaning twords V3. myself)


On a side note, I can't BELIVE how many 'hacking' attempts I've gotten since I started posting my music via my own web server on here. Nothing but a bunch of script kiddies trying to use 2 years old exploits for IIS4/5, though ^_^

24.151.77.32 - - [12/Jun/2005:11:24:16 -0500] "GET /scripts/..%255c%255c../winnt/system32/cmd.exe?/c+ver HTTP/1.0" 404 321

LOL

Edited by Cavoe, 12 June 2005 - 07:29 PM.


#8 ATeX

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Posted 13 June 2005 - 03:04 PM

You're going the right direction. There are great ideas in this update! Maybe you could work out those themes into longer versions with some more orchestration and let them build up very slowly. You begin with one line, after a while the second fades in, then the third, and so on. When you start instantly on something, make shure it's tripple forte. After all, you want to scare people at that point. So do what they don't expect. It's very effective when you slowly diminish the volume only very little and then, suddenly, when noone expects it, let it explode into a new theme.

So, I'd suggest you work out those three themes (bells, lush piano, four note theme) into 3 great parts for battlescape. Again, good work! :)


cheers,
ATeX

Edited by ATeX, 13 June 2005 - 03:06 PM.


#9 Cavoe

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Posted 13 June 2005 - 05:55 PM

Thanks ATeX

Here's a slightly different version, trying to incorporate some of those ideas. I tried to give it a false ending, too. Also added a well placed pistol (DAMN filter! c-o-c-k) :P

Lots more work to be done, I think.

Groundbattle V3.1

Edited by Cavoe, 13 June 2005 - 05:57 PM.


#10 ATeX

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Posted 17 June 2005 - 07:30 AM

let's see

I don't think you understood me completely. The track is longer indeed. That's a plus. Don't use the piano too much in the middle part. Let the sound die and don't let it come back in the first 5 seconds. Otherwise you get the feeling of 'been there, done that'. It would be a good thing to use it sparingly over the whole line. Don't repeat it a hundred times. The hard part is that you need to keep the interest of the listeners.

Keep in mind that it's only background music for a battlescape. It has to be an scary ambient track that doesn't pull the attention too much. For example, the bass you use over the whole line could almost serve already as an ambient track. Try to not add too much. Silence after all could be the creepiest sound of them all. You could almost add some sounds scattered over the whole line and you'd have a track.

If you do a buildup of a theme, make shure you keep the interest by adding more elements and modifying that theme the whole time. Then, when you end that theme, make shure there a lot of space in between.

I know, it's hard to create that ideal suspense. Most important thing to do now is to scatter the lush piano part more over the whole line. Don't repeat it a dozen times after each other. It diminishes the interest and effect.

Also keep in mind that creating a great track consists of 90% labour and 10% inspiration. I'm just trying to show you the do's and dont's ;)

Another thing, have you ever tried to make something orchestral? Creating real violin, viola, cello and bass lines, add percussion and woodwinds? I suggest you try it after having made some tracks for Xenocide.

Ah, and if you need some real practical help, just send me the rns. I've got Reason 3.0 now as well ;)


good luck!


cheers,
ATeX

Edited by ATeX, 17 June 2005 - 07:31 AM.


#11 Cavoe

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Posted 17 June 2005 - 08:00 AM

True, I was just trying to make it interesting. I think I'll scrap it and go back to the bells then do a straigth ambient track, no theme. Possibly some piano scattered here and there. I had originally wanted to do it with a creepy feel, simple and ambient, but felt it might be too dull or unimpressive for a groundbattle track. I've never really completed a song in Reason yet, let alone anything orchestral, but that's where I want to be ^_^

#12 Cavoe

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Posted 17 June 2005 - 04:34 PM

Test for Groundbattle V4.

Keepin' it simple ^_^

Groundbattle 4

#13 ATeX

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Posted 18 June 2005 - 03:50 AM

simple and good! Only lower the volume of the power chord at the end of the song. The contrast is a bit too big. I had to put off my headphones. It's not that difficult to scare people without blowing their ears :)

now, there's nothing wrong with adding a theme, like you did before. It's only very hard to compose one in a way that the interest stays. Maybe it's a good idea you work out some real themes/songs before adding one to ambient tracks like the battlescape. It will help you a lot to understand the mechanics of music.

besides lowering the volume of the power chord on the end, if you let your imagination flow, is there anything you'd like to add to this song? Do you have a sound in your head you really like to achieve? If I know your goal, I can help you go into that direction much easier.


cheers,
ATeX

#14 kafros

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Posted 18 June 2005 - 06:09 AM

I like the first half of 1.1, and version 3.1 :D
I think that if you could implement something between these two versions, you could do the "trick" :wink1:

#15 Cavoe

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Posted 18 June 2005 - 07:07 AM

I really don't know what I want to do with it anymore :hammer:

I think I'll stop work on this for a while and work on something else ^_^

#16 ATeX

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Posted 19 June 2005 - 05:28 AM

That's what I get when I'm listening thru crappy headphones at an internet cafe. I listened again, and yes, the contrast is big, but not in a bad way.

If you're out of inspiration, just put it aside, like you said. After a while, everything will come back ;)

Tell me when you're ready. What would you like to do in mean time?


cheers,
ATeX