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#1 Deimos

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Posted 15 April 2003 - 07:39 PM

As the title suggests I think we should put up some concepts for what models we're going to use in game. Anything from pencil sketches to full 3d renders is ok. We need to be getting some ideas of how things are going to look in game, choose a style and stick to it. Otherwise we're going to end up witha mish-mash of styles.

Anything from civillian clothing (we just have to have some people in nightwear for night terror missions :)) to Blaster bombs is ok to go in. I've done some sketches of laser weapons which some people will have already seen and some other tech too.

First one out is a possible skyranger. Ok originally it was an avenger but I've been given some new inspiration for that. Oh if someone wants to have a go at modelling any of these up, feel free.

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#2 Deimos

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Posted 15 April 2003 - 07:40 PM

Laser pistol

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#3 Deimos

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Posted 15 April 2003 - 07:43 PM

Human fusion launcher (blaster launcher)

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#4 Deimos

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Posted 15 April 2003 - 07:50 PM

Laser rifle. Should have the same colouration as the laser pistol.

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#5 Deimos

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Posted 15 April 2003 - 07:51 PM

Finally the plasma family. I'm not happy with the heavy plasma as it's a bit too rounded, but you get the idea.

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#6 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 16 April 2003 - 02:11 AM

nice sketches.

I would vote that he human stuff is all straight edges and gunmetal / gray /black, and we tint the alien stuff blue/purple and make it more rounded edges or spiky curved cut-lines or something?

we could then show human built alien tech by haveing the alien shapes but with human colours, and all the captured stuff as true alien.

#7 Deimos

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Posted 16 April 2003 - 05:15 PM

With that in mind I've just found my concept of an alien blaster launcher.

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#8 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 17 April 2003 - 02:38 AM

Bit close to the original innit? :D

#9 mikker

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Posted 19 April 2003 - 11:56 AM

I just found in a science magazine from 2001, that we can make stars, by using lasers. It will take up 60.000 million watt, 100 times the enegy used in USA in the same time, and take 10 sec.

I think we got a Heavy Laser, here :D

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#10 Breunor

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Posted 20 April 2003 - 08:35 PM

Gleaned from an Aliens2 website...

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#11 Breunor

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Posted 20 April 2003 - 08:37 PM

I should have just posted the web site: it's here. I had mentioned using a harness for teh heavy laser/plasma a while back, based on this:

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#12 Deimos

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Posted 20 April 2003 - 09:30 PM

Ah a waldo unit. It might be a good idea as a part of the heavy weapons before the troopers get armour as they'd have hardpoints on them for the heavy weapon class.

If we do the heavy weapons are going to have to be redesigned to take advantage of a waldo/hardpoint design. I don't think it'd take much in design terms but how many extra polys would it require?

#13 Breunor

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Posted 20 April 2003 - 10:31 PM

It shoudn't take many extra polys to do. If the original handle is repositioned to the rear, then the front support handle and latch is all that's needed. Plus the spport frame, but that can be pretty squared tubing to minimize the number. It will be pretty fine detail in the game, so 4 sided tubes will look pretty much the same as 12 sided, etc.

#14 mikker

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Posted 25 April 2003 - 04:14 AM

I started moddeling that. How do it look? This is just a start of it.

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#15 Breunor

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Posted 25 April 2003 - 07:55 AM

Nice layout of the profile, that could definitely turn into a heavy weapon. Keep up the good work!

#16 Cubik

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Posted 30 April 2003 - 01:26 PM

Started making a model based on the Laser rifle sketch.

#17 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 30 April 2003 - 03:47 PM

Yay, Go for it.

Remember human stuff should look like real weapons.
Like the weapons from "Aliens". Straight(ish) edges, and gunmetal greys / blacks / olive green.

#18 Cubik

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Posted 01 May 2003 - 03:03 AM

First test version. Ignore the texture, just a test. 426 polygons.



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#19 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 01 May 2003 - 06:21 AM

I've got my happy artist grin on again.

:D

Nice one.

#20 Deimos

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Posted 01 May 2003 - 06:27 AM

Looking sweet cubik.

If you are going to texture it, the colouration of the laser pistol is the base colouration for the range of laser weapons. The bronze looking bit is the power unit or clip. Though it is removable, for game purposes (laser weapons have unlimited ammo) there's no need to model a seperate clip :)

It's really impressive looking.

#21 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 01 May 2003 - 06:40 AM

unless the ammo is some sort of power pak

#22 Cubik

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Posted 01 May 2003 - 08:18 AM

Started on the blaster too. 827 polygons.

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#23 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 01 May 2003 - 08:25 AM

nice.

MIght be worth snaking the rear tube over the surface, It'll save a few polys and look a bit "tighter"
The muzzle needs to be a chunk bigger though. The blaster bomb just a little smaller than an american football IIRC.

#24 Cubik

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Posted 01 May 2003 - 09:09 AM

Tried to increase the muzzles' size, but it's pretty hard without destroying the guns' proportions.
788 polygons.

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#25 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 01 May 2003 - 09:25 AM

Perhaps from the front?

The light purple cylinder stays that thick most of the way down, and the top section sits over it like a saddle perhaps?

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#26 Cubik

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Posted 01 May 2003 - 09:34 AM

Like this?

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#27 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 01 May 2003 - 09:53 AM

Could go even wider at the top I reckon.

Very Big Guns are kewl..

#28 mikker

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Posted 01 May 2003 - 11:19 AM

Very Big Guns are kewl..

Ditto on that

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#29 LordT

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Posted 01 May 2003 - 12:47 PM

Isnt the BLaster supposed to look ~~ like an oversized Bazooka?
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#30 Breunor

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Posted 01 May 2003 - 02:20 PM

The models being developed here are based off of the UFOpedia from the original. It is very accurate to the original, (and looks great btw), but are we going to chance dancing around legal issues? I think that each weapon should be based off of original designs, so we avoid that altogether. I haven't heard anything about Last Hope models recently, are they still available for this project? If so, I'm working on an asset list that should be available from this site soon and it will link to the model files, so it would be good to get those files. Even if they're not complete, at least we have something to work with.

So for now we have to assume that no models are being offered and we have to build them ourselves. I really like the artwork so far, but I strongly suggest remodeling weapons so they are distinctly different from the originals. I'm concerned that your efforts will be wasted down the road if these models can't be used.

#31 Cubik

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Posted 01 May 2003 - 03:11 PM

Efforts, schmefforts, I did this gun in two hours work, don't see that as an effort.

But, seriously, it's good to see that someone lays down the ground rules from the very beginning. I don't actually think that this gun is that close to the original design, but if anyone disagrees I can redo it.

And thanks for the compliments :P

#32 GreatGold

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Posted 01 May 2003 - 04:47 PM

Hey All -

Just a quick question to you 3D gurus. Is it possible to port .3ds to gmax? And visa-versa? I've been playing around with gmax, but before I start anything serious I just want to make sure its compatable with all your plans. Is there a specific porter program?

Thanks,
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ps - great work guys, the speed of progress on this project is amazing.
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#33 Breunor

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Posted 01 May 2003 - 07:40 PM

If you're using the demo/free version of gmax, I don't think you can export anything from it. If you've bought it, then maybe you can. I tried the shareware gmax and made some nice things, only to find they couldn't be used anywhere else. I don't remember if you could import 3ds, I think I was importing lwo files into it. So you could import items and take nice rendered shots I guess, but I'd try something else. I'm using Milkshape right now, it's a 30 day shareware that costs $25 to register. It doesn't have every feature of the big guys, but works well. You can find it at http://www.swissquak...ms3d/index.html

If you go to the main page for xcomufo.com, Micah has the original UFOpedia posted up at the top. Take a look at the picture for the blaster launcher and I think you'll agree that Deimos did an awesome job of recreating the original weapon. Unfortunately, it's too similar IMO.

#34 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 02 May 2003 - 12:57 AM

The legal thing is a bit grey at the moment. (We have sent a letter to Infogrammes, but had no response yet.)
Probably is best to avoid copying the originals too closely tho.

The LastHope models will be available to us. We might want to tweak them a little to fit in with the style of the stuff we are doing and pull them away from the originals in the texture department.
-possibly-.

Cubik - feel free to post your own concept sketches for weapons if you have any cool ideas.

#35 Cubik

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Posted 02 May 2003 - 06:24 AM

Ok, this one doesn't have anything to do with the old X-COM weapons.

Assult Rifle. 389 polygons

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#36 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 02 May 2003 - 06:50 AM

Nice.

I hope the hole in that barrel is conical, :D

The "startup" human gear is going to be very close to real weapons, to make more of a contrast between the human tech and the alien tech.

I can't remember where the thread is right now but there wasa link to a sight with various weaponry including a H&K G36.

a few people thought it would be cool to start off with that as an SMG

Do you want to see what you can do with one?

#37 Cubik

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Posted 02 May 2003 - 07:27 AM

"a few people thought it would be cool to start off with that as an SMG

Do you want to see what you can do with one? "

I have absolutly no idea what you are talking about here.
More realistic guns seems to be a good idea. I was thinking SWAT when I designed this one.

#38 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 02 May 2003 - 07:50 AM

Sorry I'll explain better. Not just realistic but real.
Starting off with -actual- weaponry and flak armour, and progressing from there.

so startoff weapons might be...

FN P90 sub machine gun.
Heckler&Koch G36 assault rifle, (or commando version)
http://world.guns.ru...ault/as14-e.htm

IMI Desert Eagle .5 Magnum pistol. (look at the size of that thing.
http://remtek.com/ar...esert/index.htm

M-67 fragmentation grenade
http://jove.prohosti...lf/custom.shtml

That sort of thing

#39 mikker

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Posted 02 May 2003 - 08:12 AM

nice guns there, cubik.

I had done some progress with the Hevlaser..any criatism?

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#40 Cubik

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Posted 02 May 2003 - 08:17 AM

1. Aren't those gun designs copyrighted? So we can't use them as base for the models?

2. "Do you want to see what you can do with one?"
Do you want me to do one? You lost me again :P

#41 Deimos

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Posted 02 May 2003 - 09:33 AM

For everyone that's doing any models based on my concept designs above. The only weapon that is questionable is the alien blaster launcher which was inspired by and looks close to the original.

The laser weapons, plasma weapons and human (box shaped) blaster launcher are my designs and there isn't any problem with the copyright of those. I'd say that the blaster launcher should be dumped in favour of something a little more radical. I was thinking something like a backpack that sits on the operator's shoulders and has a cable to 'mind link' the operator to it.

Sort of a portable mortar on the back of the alien operator. When researched for human use, the closest we could get to it could be a similar arrangement but instead of a mind link the operator wears a (predator style) arm computer that is linked to a minimap for setting waypoints before firing.

I'd agree with Drewid on the base tech level weapons, definitely contemporary projectile weapons. The HK and the FN P90 would be perfect as the ranges the game is played at would suit those weapons perfectly. For anyone that doesn't know what an FN P90 looks like, here's a pic of one.

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#42 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 02 May 2003 - 09:48 AM

The actual "mechanial" designs would be copyrighted and covered by patents.

The "look" of the weapon may be (in theory), but probably isn't in legal actuality,

With real world objects it tends to be down to the individual company to pursue it or not. For instance Ferrari are very aggressive with their IP, weapons manufacturers aren't. Counterstrike never had a single query from a company AFAIK, even though they were all real-world weapons.

#43 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 02 May 2003 - 10:22 AM

Mikker -
movie companies are more concerned on the other hand, especially Fox, who would own the designs of the "aliens" weaponry.

I would suggest fiddling with this, using the components you've got to keep that industrial chunky look.

Perhaps something like this.

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#44 Cubik

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Posted 02 May 2003 - 10:54 AM

Done. Right there.

Ok, after some clarifications by drewid, I have decided to make a couple of more guns before doing anything else:

1 handgun, Beretta 92 or Desert Eagle
1 SMG, the FN 90
1 Medium MG, SAW or M60

These guns should be avabile at the start of the game and should complement each other pretty well.

Do you want more guns? Add a picture (preferably side view) and I will get right on it :D

#45 mikker

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Posted 02 May 2003 - 11:21 AM

Woah drew. that looks great! i will start at once! :D :D :D

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#46 Breunor

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Posted 02 May 2003 - 11:52 AM

That design's looking very good mikker. I agree with Drewid, which is to say that any pictures of non-real world items should be modified unless the original artist gives permission to use it. So the Alien rail gun should be a little different like Drewid shows.

I suggest that when laser versions are made, that there be a noticeable difference between say a pistol and laser pistol, but that the differences be uniform for all the weapons. Meaning, take each nomal weapon and make a consistent change to each for the laser version. Same for the plasma weapons. That way, you get a flavor in the different "series" of weapons if that makes sense. The differences don't have to be exact, but enough to provide consistency. Material color is a definite. Standard weapons from brushed/steel, laser a more polished ceramic look, plasma ...?

#47 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 02 May 2003 - 01:00 PM

How about plasma gets the iridescent material, perhaps in a different colour, but the human version keeps the human "straight lines"

#48 Breunor

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Posted 02 May 2003 - 01:39 PM

That sounds good, there could be an organic feel to all the alien weapons, while human tech is straight lines. "We dont have time for nice ergonomics, we're fighting an invasion here!"

The iridescent material would definitely set the alien tech apart from human. Perhaps the handles are a bit different as well, depending on the shape of alien hands and the number of fingers they have?

Having an arm unit for the blaster launcher controls would be nice, or you could have a helmet with display which shows a 'rocket view', and the soldier steers the missile as it's moving along with some small joystick in the weapon or arm unit. Like a RC plane with nuclear payload. :D

#49 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 02 May 2003 - 01:46 PM

That sounds good, there could be an organic feel to all the alien weapons, while human tech is straight lines. "We dont have time for nice ergonomics, we're fighting an invasion here!"

The iridescent material would definitely set the alien tech apart from human. Perhaps the handles are a bit different as well, depending on the shape of alien hands and the number of fingers they have?

Having an arm unit for the blaster launcher controls would be nice, or you could have a helmet with display which shows a 'rocket view', and the soldier steers the missile as it's moving along with some small joystick in the weapon or arm unit. Like a RC plane with nuclear payload. :D

You would need a litttle joystick near the handgrip, like a "top hat" on a joystick.

Otherwise you'ld never get to it in time.

#50 Cubik

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Posted 02 May 2003 - 03:06 PM

And an little Fn90 to the collection, 490 polygons:

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Edited by Raven Squad, 03 May 2003 - 05:09 AM.