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#1 Deimos

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Posted 27 April 2003 - 04:46 PM

I've been in touch with a top modeller Kenny Mitchell and he has some amazing models on his site. Basically I saw some models that would be incredible in xenocide.

All these are his designs and we have his permission to use them in game if we like.

Possible skyranger.

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Edited by Deimos, 27 April 2003 - 04:50 PM.


#2 Deimos

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Posted 27 April 2003 - 04:47 PM

Possible intercptor

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#3 Deimos

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Posted 27 April 2003 - 04:47 PM

and another

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#4 Deimos

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Posted 27 April 2003 - 04:49 PM

and another. His site is http://www.axeman3d.co.uk/aircraft.htm

I really like the osprey design and the light grey marine craft would be a perfect interceptor.

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#5 red knight

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Posted 27 April 2003 - 05:06 PM

HOLY SH.....T those models are just AWESOME... Did you invite the artist to work in Xenocide?

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#6 Deimos

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Posted 28 April 2003 - 02:02 AM

HOLY SH.....T those models are just AWESOME... Did you invite the artist to work in Xenocide?

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They are cool. I did invite him yeah, but he's a busy puppy.

#7 Raven Squad

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Posted 28 April 2003 - 05:51 AM

They look really good. Futuristic and still human tech look in it. Just wondering that can we chance the models if we need to or did he just gave permission to use these exact models?
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#8 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 28 April 2003 - 05:58 AM

we'd have to make some changes. I can't see any of them fitting in the in-game poly count right now.

:D

I like the first two best.

#9 Deimos

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Posted 28 April 2003 - 06:33 AM

I'm not sure what the poly count is for them but I don't see it being that high. The models are in Lightwaves .lwo format so they'd have to be converted over. I don't see it being a problem especially as the osprey design is angular to start with, I can't see the count being that much higher than 1500 and as RK said seeing as the transport craft would be one of the largest items in battlescape we could up the polycount :) The main work I think that would need doing would be to allow the roof section to be removed and the control surfaces so thay can be animated.

As for the interceptor polycount isn't going to be an issue as the only time it's seen is in the Xnet database and in the interceptor window which we can come to later :)

I have to say that I really feel that we should at least use the second craft as an interceptor, because it kicks donkey on a scale never encountered in human history :P

#10 Breunor

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Posted 28 April 2003 - 06:33 AM

I bow to the mighty master! I also like the first two best, the third one has a feel that suggests a little more alien influence. That might be good for another interceptor though. It would be nice to see the model files for those, could hopefully learn some pointers from them... those models are really nice!

#11 Deimos

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Posted 28 April 2003 - 06:34 AM

I jusyt had a thought craft 4 could be a replacement for the firestorm :)

Edited by Deimos, 28 April 2003 - 06:39 AM.


#12 Breunor

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Posted 28 April 2003 - 06:38 AM

I just noticed these mocels all use the skid landing gear I was considering! Now I REALLY like them! :D

#13 Deimos

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Posted 28 April 2003 - 08:19 AM

I'm not sure what the poly count is for them but I don't see it being that high.

Heh :) I guess when I'm wrong it ought to be by a magnitude of planetary distances. The osprey has a huge polycount and is waaaaay more detailed than I ever expected.
It even has the usmc modelled into the surface detailling and there are 4 crewmen sitting inside it.

#14 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 28 April 2003 - 08:40 AM

Lemmie at it. I love killing polys.

What's our limit?

#15 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 28 April 2003 - 08:47 AM

Oh and I can convert from pretty much anything,

#16 Micah

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Posted 28 April 2003 - 09:14 AM

I bow to the mighty master! I also like the first two best, the third one has a feel that suggests a little more alien influence. That might be good for another interceptor though. It would be nice to see the model files for those, could hopefully learn some pointers from them... those models are really nice!

Breunor, visit his website to download the models:
http://www.axeman3d.co.uk/aircraft.htm

#17 mamutas

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Posted 28 April 2003 - 10:58 AM

Great ships!
I agree with suggestions. The first and second are definitely fits into skyranger/interceptor ideas.
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#18 Breunor

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Posted 28 April 2003 - 03:26 PM

The models definitely need chopping down to size, I can't even open the first model because there's too many verts/polys for Milkshape to handle! One of the other craft was around 10,000 polys, which it could open, but crashed if you tried to do anything with it. :explode:

My experience has been to keep it all under 3500 polys and you should be fine.

#19 Breunor

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Posted 28 April 2003 - 03:29 PM

That is a Milkshape limit btw, nothing else.

#20 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 28 April 2003 - 03:30 PM

That explains it. :crying:
I'll try it with polytrans when I get to work tomorrow. :D

#21 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 03 May 2003 - 02:14 PM

90% of one atmospheric shuttle.

Still a few details to go. 1470 polys

I've not started optimising it yet so there are some bits that are very inefficient.

I've had to change the original design a bit to fit troopers in and maintain the same exit ramp as the skyranger.

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#22 Cubik

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Posted 03 May 2003 - 02:35 PM

If you need anyone else working on opimizing the models, just send them over.

#23 GreatGold

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Posted 03 May 2003 - 07:04 PM

Hey -

I like the new look...but there seem to be a number of competing models in this, and other, threads. Whose gets chosen and how?

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#24 Cubik

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Posted 04 May 2003 - 02:56 AM

The diffrent models could be diffrent versions of the same craft (Type I, Type II, Type III...)

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Posted 04 May 2003 - 07:34 AM

Hey -

I like the new look...but there seem to be a number of competing models in this, and other, threads.  Whose gets chosen and how?

Gold

The mk1 / mk2 idea is pretty cool, another idea was for different craft being available in different parts of the world.

Mind you there's a fair amount of work to be done, and we ought to get one of each craft in before we start duplicating effort.

Funnily enough Breunor as mocking up a jet-engined Osprey when this one turned up.

We will also have to resign ourselves to -some- work not going into the final version. That's the way the creative process works sometimes, with a cool idea being ditched beacuse a cooler one turns up, or because you can't get it to work.


We should try to minimise that of course, but it will happen. That's games for ya.
<_<

#26 red knight

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Posted 04 May 2003 - 04:50 PM

90% of one atmospheric shuttle.

Still a few details to go. 1470 polys

I've not started optimising it yet so there are some bits that are very inefficient.

I've had to change the original design a bit to fit troopers in and maintain the same exit ramp as the skyranger.

Drew, we you can add a little more detail... thats a pretty big object so we can afford lot more polygons... As you know you can use bump mapping to add details too...

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#27 Cubik

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Posted 04 May 2003 - 05:09 PM

Can we do realtime hardware bumpmapping? Or are you refering to the common method of making materials with a baked in bumpmap?

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Posted 05 May 2003 - 02:29 AM

Hokay. thats no problem.

There's planty of places that would benefit from more detail.
I've not cut the roof off yet either so that'll take some more,

Top limit anyone?

Not up to the original tho, that was 40k polys Oo. ;D

#29 Breunor

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Posted 05 May 2003 - 06:07 AM

Since we have this Osprey to play with, I'm not going to continue the one I started. It's not as developed as this one, and I like this version better. I still have joints to finish in the first Skyranger, and then I need to finish the small scout UFO.

#30 red knight

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Posted 06 May 2003 - 08:34 AM

Can we do realtime hardware bumpmapping? Or are you refering to the common method of making materials with a baked in bumpmap?

:blink: Did you see the Xenocide Alpha??? That was Realtime Bump Mapping with Shadows calculation on realtime... Our lowest level videocard will be GF2 at least this year, we can move along the line if there is a real need for it (mostly because of simplicity), technically there is a need to move at least to GF3 ... (cause of texture shaders)... program once in CG run everywhere (with the required video card of course)

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#31 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 08 May 2003 - 07:11 AM

The story so far.

Still no texturing

Now the inside is nearly modelled, except for the cockpit hatch and some struts and pipes.
Ramp needs a hydraulic machanism
A couple of windows in the sides, needs some more pipework outside, and ariels and stuff.

Do we want weapons hardpoints?

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#32 Cubik

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Posted 08 May 2003 - 07:48 AM

Nice work.
Isn't this a no-weapons troop carrier.... so no guns?

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Posted 08 May 2003 - 08:44 AM

In theory..... Just checking :D

#34 Maverick

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Posted 08 May 2003 - 12:14 PM

we only wish the engineers had been intelligent enough to add a few chainguns or something to mow down the first row of critters. My only comment on the work so far is that the hatch can't be opened, and the slanted windows like that on the corners would only be designed like that for aesthetic puposes, coming to a point like that offers no benefit and reduces the armor without adding anything in return. (just noticed that, not a big deal)

i'm lovin the osprey. Good work guys.

#35 Raven Squad

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Posted 08 May 2003 - 01:01 PM

Looks nice Drewid
Maybe xeno agent could use mg mounted on the roof. Trick would be that aliens could shoot at him too.
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#36 Breunor

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Posted 08 May 2003 - 02:08 PM

Small windows along the side of the hull would be nice, soldiers could quickly scan around the ship before disembarking so they aren't surprised by an alien hiding by the plane.

Maverick - in what way can't the hatch be opened? Not sure what you mean there.

It's looking very nice Drewid!

#37 Cubik

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Posted 09 May 2003 - 03:33 AM

I think that he's refering to the fact that the ramp doesn't have any hydraulic system, which drewid also noted.

Windows sound like a good idea, but I don't think that we should put a machine gun on the plane. It should be a strict no-weapons troop carrier.

#38 Breunor

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Posted 09 May 2003 - 08:50 AM

I see what you mean now. What about a little bulge (like a hinge) on the outside along the bottom of the ramp, it's out of the way when the ramp opens so soldiers can exit and fire freely.

I agree with no gun, that would change the game mechanics having a fixed gun emplacement. Since the craft can't be damaged in version 1, it will be interesting to see if everybody tries to shoot through indestructable windows. Meaning, aliens near the window will shoot when they see you, but it won't get through.

Can there/will there be small flood lights on this plane, so you can see a few squares away from it during night missions? It can be added in later I guess, but would make sense I think.

#39 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 09 May 2003 - 09:07 AM

The big struts up the hatch _are_ hinges.
I've had to change that a bit anyhow cos the ramp didn't quite reach the ground (Doh!).

All will be revealed in the next installment.


I like the spotlights idea

#40 Cubik

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Posted 09 May 2003 - 11:44 AM

Perhaps a player-controlled flood light too?

#41 Breunor

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Posted 09 May 2003 - 12:46 PM

We still want to require the use of portable lights during night missions, so maybe just 4 spotlights at the plane's corners to illuminate a few meters around the plane. "Beyond the plane's lights, the darkness awaited them..."

It really just simulates landing lights rather than an aimable spotlight like police cars have. But aiming them could be an option as well. It then requires someone in the craft to move it around, seems like a later version option compared to generic lighting I guess.

#42 Deimos

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Posted 09 May 2003 - 02:33 PM

The story so far.

Still no texturing

Now the inside is nearly modelled, except for the cockpit hatch and some struts and pipes.
Ramp needs a hydraulic machanism
A couple of windows in the sides, needs some more pipework outside, and ariels and stuff.

Do we want weapons hardpoints?

Looking good :)

I don't think it would need a visible hydraulic system as it could be connected to the hinges internally. Say have the hydraulic rams in between the floor plating and the outer skin of the plane. The hinge mechanism could have a cam on it where the hydraulics are connected to so that in effect the door is pushed up and pulled down on its axis.

I hope I've not spouted crap there :)

#43 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 09 May 2003 - 02:40 PM

That'll do for me. It'll be Monday befoerI can get back on it now.

#44 mikker

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Posted 12 May 2003 - 07:38 AM

wooops sry... :Blush:

Edited by mikker, 12 May 2003 - 07:38 AM.

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#45 pooply

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Posted 16 May 2003 - 01:58 PM

I love all the designs, but I dont thik that the skyranger fits the original games feel very well. Not that I;m syaing we have to but it feels a bit too bulky/ military. This is more of a swat crew than a navy seals thng (IMO) maybe a lighter/more useable design. Like the airbus in xcom udo defense.

#46 Breunor

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Posted 16 May 2003 - 08:52 PM

Too bulky as in the engines are too big? The rest of the design Drewid's modifying are very similar to the original IRT proportions. But those engines can rotate for vtol, which most people have agreed would be a very realistic feature for quick insertion. The original skyranger would require/make quite a runway when landing, something not represented in the battlescapes. So vtol seems like a near necessity. IMO it should have a military look to it, as it's what humans have at the start of the game. Once alien tech is found and adapted, the sleaker look would help make the more advanced craft stand out that much more. Hope that didn't come off as argumentative, just explaining what I think the reasoning is up to this point. :D

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Posted 17 May 2003 - 05:28 AM

Better decide quick, I'm halfway through texturing it :D .

I don't think its bad to have military gear. The guys have armour and guns so it's the same thing really.

#48 Breunor

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Posted 17 May 2003 - 11:12 AM

I think having a distinct military look is appropriate for all the starting craft and weapons, as that's what we have now. The higher tech craft and gear would have a more organic feel to reflect the alien technology.

Can't wait to see it textured Drewid!

#49 red knight

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Posted 17 May 2003 - 11:44 PM

Well i have a friend that is studying aeronautics engineering so i had asked what he thought about the interceptor design. In short words, the design is plain wrong. I gonna try to tell you why if i understood correctly. The point is that at supersonic speeds the air become a pretty dense thing, the friction with air start to heat up the material, under heating the material starts to lose rigidity, and lose torsion capability and other properties he told me that i dont remember now (i may had write of this properties too wrong). The point is that the conclusion of a high speed manuevering on negative arrow aircrafts (the design of the interceptor) would fall to earth like a stone... In positive arrow aircrafts you can have mach 4 (four times the speed of sound) and execute high G manuovers (if the material is well behaved and the pilot can stand it). That is consistent of what i knew about negative arrow aircraft, all of them are ultra lightweight aircraft with a susteinable speed of 2 km/h. Thats why it doesnt sound fast and maniobrable for me...

I hope this is enough theoric insight, cause i cannot give you more... i would have to sit him here to say what i need and traslate it into english if you have any answer...

EDIT: This post had been posted in the WRONG thread, my mistake... it has been reposted on the appropiate thread...

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Edited by red knight, 18 May 2003 - 01:13 PM.

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#50 GreatGold

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Posted 18 May 2003 - 08:40 AM

RK -

You bring up a valid point, but just a few things. Although we are in a "way" trying to make things realitic, we are doing so in a futuristic setting. Perhaps the aircaft is made of a new alloy, or has an incredably powerful propulsion system. Perhaps the avionics make up for the design. Or, using current NASA experimimental tech, the wings could actually bend and reshape, to a certain degree, as needed by the avionics computer. My point is, what is airodynamic now will most likely not be in 10 years, or 50, depending on when this game will be set. So, to me, if the design looks interesting (which it definatley does) and believeable (in the futuristic tense) then I'm all for it. We can write anything we want to make it believable!

Anyhow, I just think its a lot ot ask our graphics team, to actually create from scratch an aerodynamically stable aircraft. Now, if we had an aeronautical engineer on the team, I'd ask for nothing less...but since we dont...

Anyhow, just a few thoughts.

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