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#1 GreatGold

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Posted 19 May 2003 - 03:34 PM

Hey -

Just a quick question, and comment. I think I remeber Cydonia having Earth-based physics (as you can see its been a while since I've visited... :sly: ). I'm just curious if we are planning on changing this for Xonicide. I would personally prefer theoretical Martian physics on Mars to Earth-based physics. This has probably been covered already, but I musta missed it.

This also has applications to post-v1.0 situations, should we wish to combine UFO and TFTD. Or incorperate more space missions. I guess its just something to keep in the back of the hive-mind :D .

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#2 mamutas

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Posted 19 May 2003 - 04:25 PM

I don't think there should be a big difference between Mars and Earth phisics. Yes, the gravity is slightly less and the air is not as dense, but these are all insignificant factors for the game, because their are not used for anything.

Or do I miss something?
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#3 GreatGold

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Posted 19 May 2003 - 04:45 PM

Heres what I was thinking - suppose you want to throw a grenade on Cydonia. If you threw it like you did on Earth...its gonna end up waaaaaaay away from where you wanted it to. Likewise, I'd imagine flying suits as being less stable. These are just a few things, and I'm sure there are others.

I guess the big question this addresses is: will the physics engine be moddable, or static?

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#4 Cubik

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Posted 19 May 2003 - 11:57 PM

You could also be able to move at a higher (?) since Mars has a lower gravitiy (?) than Earth.

And what about those 300km/h sandstorms? :P

#5 GreatGold

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Posted 20 May 2003 - 06:25 AM

Thats an excelllent point! What about weather?! What about weather on Earth?

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#6 mamutas

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Posted 20 May 2003 - 08:16 AM

Hmm!
I like the weather idea. It is not that hard to do, but seeing piece of paper blown by the wind during your terror mission would be very nice.
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#7 Breunor

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Posted 20 May 2003 - 09:49 AM

Gravity could also make things fun if there is a blast radius effect from explosions. The shock wave could really send people flying on Mars!

#8 mamutas

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Posted 20 May 2003 - 09:55 AM

I guess it is all going to be defined whether we will use any physics engine.
I do not think that original XCom did, and I have never heard us doing that.
But I guess we will. In that case it will be easy to adjust couple parameters (gravity, air resistance, etc.) to emulate any planet environment.
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#9 GreatGold

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Posted 20 May 2003 - 12:50 PM

Is it difficult to make a physics engine? And if so, is it easier to do so for a turn based game? Or one that is not first person? Or is it all the same. I think it would be a very valuable asset to include one in Xenocide, for a large number of reasons.

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#10 Breunor

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Posted 20 May 2003 - 01:21 PM

It's ultimately up to the senior code department members, but my initial response to it being in v1 is 'not likely'. It's one of those nice to have features, but will probably be considered after everything else is coded and working.

#11 mamutas

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Posted 20 May 2003 - 01:46 PM

Is it difficult to make a physics engine?  And if so, is it easier to do so for a turn based game?  Or one that is not first person?  Or is it all the same.  I think it would be a very valuable asset to include one in Xenocide, for a large number of reasons.

Gold

Basically, you use physics engine to recalculate position of your unit/object.
There must be a engine anyway to do that sort of things. Its implementation depends on what rules are implemented. For example, if you throw a ball straight up in the air, the physics engine needs to calculate its position as a function of time. Whether this function uses gravity or not describes what are you physics.

We have not talked about about physics engine so far, but if it is implemented correctly from the beggining, it would be easy to modify it later.
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#12 Albino Crow

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Posted 08 March 2004 - 09:13 AM

I think this would be a fantastic idea. Of course you wouldn't have to cover the sincere physics of the planet, or make a profound difference between Earth and Martian physics, but enough to abstractly convey their distinguishing characteristics. It could really put more emphasis on BEING on the planet itself. It'd certainly add to the excitement of that particular mission.

This of course is up to the coders, and I think it's reasonable that things like this come after a large bulk of the game is already completed. Great ideas my Friends! :D

#13 MagicAndy

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Posted 08 March 2004 - 07:57 PM

things like flying suits, TU costs, grenade throwing and collisions/explosions will all be affected by changed gravity and air density. I agree it would be interesting to do at some stage, but since this is a deviation from the original shouldn't this go in the labs?

#14 kelfka

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 11:49 AM

I dont think it should go in the lab.
It's more of a realistic adjusment than a deviation.

But inside the base will there also be low grav and thinner air? :huh?:

Edited by kelfka, 11 March 2004 - 11:50 AM.


#15 chrisp_21

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Posted 14 March 2004 - 04:27 PM

I think it's safe to assume that the base would be pressurized, so the air density would be similar to Earth. It's also likely that the aliens would have the technology to manipulate gravity waves, so the gravity would be what they're comfortable with.. probably one G. It would probably be most realistic to make it Earth-like. It would still be a lot of fun to continue with the low gravity rules though... and in the end the game is about fun.

You could really throw a grenade a long way on Mars though... 1/3 g combined with the thin atmosphere would allow you to easily throw 5 or 6 times farther than you could on Earth. I think it would be cool to add low grav to the Cydonia mission to change up tactics. Grenades would be much more useful.

As far as coding goes, I think it would be easy to implement (at least at a basic level).

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#16 MagicAndy

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Posted 14 March 2004 - 06:22 PM

Some of the CTDs state that the aliens are not comfortable in 1g gravity (im thinking of the floater CTD specifically) and that they require modifications to exist on Earth. Why would they manipulate thier gravity to something some of them couldn't stand.

Of course you could have different areas of the base at different gravities or somthing like that, but this is approaching new levels of complication.

I still think this should go in the labs because if the gravity does not affect the player then it is an aesthetic, non-practical addition, and if it does affect the player, it is an additional, untested gameplay perameter (in terms of grenade throwing esp.)

#17 chrisp_21

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Posted 14 March 2004 - 11:13 PM

I guess it's not a very important issue. If we change the gravity on Mars, then the base needs to either be 1g or at Mars gravity. Otherwise it's just not practical. I would prefer making the entire thing Mars gravity. In terms of implementation, I think we would just have to add some multipliers to grenade range, TUs etc. Pretty easy as long as we don't get into the actual differences in physics. I think simple design and functionality differences can make their way into V1.0. I guess the real decision would be if this is something we put in V1.0 or add afterwards. If it's something we put in 1.0, then the discussion belongs here. I personally would be for putting it in 1.0.

As far as untested gameplay, it's all untested at this point. We don't have any gameplay. It's dangerous to think that X-Com is our tested gameplay. Our game is inspired by X-Com, but isn't a true remake.

This is probably something that should go on the backburner until we actually start work on the programming for the Cydonia mission. Then we could decide if it goes into 1.0 or post 1.0. At the present rate of development, coding for the Cydonia mission most likely won't take place until 2005 at the earliest. There will have to be 'special' things about the Cydonia mission or it just won't have the same impact.

#18 MagicAndy

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Posted 16 March 2004 - 04:35 PM

good points - agreed