120 replies to this topic

[Vaaish]

Ok here is the next baseview module... the laser defense module.

Everything is the same except for the turret. I'm trying to make each turret fairly recognizable to help diferentiate the modules. questions commments before I move on to the plasma cannon and wrap up the base defense modules?

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•  ld.jpg   12.42K   11 downloads

[Vaaish]

and the next

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•  ld2.jpg   13.07K   8 downloads

[Vaaish]

and the last

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•  ld3.jpg   15.66K   8 downloads

[miceless]

Am i the only one who thinks it looks a bit small/pathetic? Seems a waste for an entire base facility.

I liked the XCOM ones as they looked like they had lots of missiles/lasers/etc. Perhaps a bigger laser or, even better, more emplacements?

That or its just me...

[Vaaish]

Am i the only one who thinks it looks a bit small/pathetic? Seems a waste for an entire base facility.

I liked the XCOM ones as they looked like they had lots of missiles/lasers/etc. Perhaps a bigger laser or, even better, more emplacements?

That or its just me...

that laser is already pretty big. here is a pic with referance of the power armor. One issue that we run into is the poly limitations. we aren't doing a prerendered scene this time so we can't cram in tons of weapons. The defenses don't necessarily have to have masses of spares lying around especially since only that platform is being lifted to the surface.

Thre reason I stuck with one laser is that these things don't fire like starwars lasers do and most realworld laser weaponry sticks to a single beam. I am hoping to fit dual or quad cannons on the turret for the plasma weaponry.

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•  csize.jpg   12.96K   9 downloads

[Breunor]

Perhaps scaling the weapon to 2-3x, and rotating it 90 degrees to fit the oblong area better? I agree that it's a bit small, but just 1 weapon works fine if it's big enough. Same number of polys that way. It might hit the walls rotating by the floor, so it's assumed that the weapon is elevated prior to it rotating towards the target. The defense weapon is much bigger IMO than the craft weapon version, I've never seen a laser cannon on the interceptor take a large craft down with one shot like a laser defense can.

[Vaaish]

Perhaps scaling the weapon to 2-3x, and rotating it 90 degrees to fit the oblong area better? I agree that it's a bit small, but just 1 weapon works fine if it's big enough. Same number of polys that way. It might hit the walls rotating by the floor, so it's assumed that the weapon is elevated prior to it rotating towards the target. The defense weapon is much bigger IMO than the craft weapon version, I've never seen a laser cannon on the interceptor take a large craft down with one shot like a laser defense can.

There won't be any way to get around the cannon if it is scaled much bigger even rotated

EDIT: I played around with it and here is what we have,

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•  csize.jpg   15.7K   8 downloads

Edited by Vaaish, 17 July 2003 - 10:59 AM.

[Vaaish]

and the one showing the space around it

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•  csize2.jpg   16.1K   9 downloads

[Breunor]

If the facility is 2 stories high, what about the option of having the weapon platform off the floor, so that personnel can walk under it? Then the weapon can be much bigger. That last pic looks good though, much more substantial IMO, and could work fine.

[Vaaish]

If the facility is 2 stories high, what about the option of having the weapon platform off the floor, so that personnel can walk under it? Then the weapon can be much bigger. That last pic looks good though, much more substantial IMO, and could work fine.

could work but the problem we run into is how do we plan on showing personnel when they go under it? Also we don't want to make the weapons look like they would take more power than the generators.

[miceless]

I think its looking better, but it could still be bigger IMO. Having two like that is better.

If it was two stories, one would presumably only see the support structure if one was on the lower level, much like things are already done in the current games.

[j'ordos]

Or they could always be rotated upwards, I don't see the need for them to turn horizontal, set aside for maintenance, but an elevator can provide access to it as well.

Edited by j'ordos, 19 July 2003 - 12:10 PM.

[Breunor]

Occlusion would be used to show units under the platform, if that's the correct term. Same as when you go into a building, any polys between the unit and the camera are hidden.

[miceless]

Elevator? Do you mean a cherry pickker type thing? That would work.

[j'ordos]

What's a cherry pickker? What I meant is: the cannons stand on the 1st floor, but they don't rotate their guns down, rather they stay angled up, say, 60 degrees maybe. That way they could be made bigger, as the barrels won't impede movement around the guns anymore. But maybe they need some maintenance, and then an elevator sending a mechanic up could solve that.

[Vaaish]

Making the cannons any larger will exceed the plausable size for the generator structure. making them larger will not add anything to thir look and we don't want to get out of hand just making them massive to look massive. already each laser beam is quite a bit bigger around than a mans head and quite frankly that is a massive laser. In fact I would guess the largest defensive laser built do day does not come anywhere near that size.

Adding a second level is not a viable solution nor is angling the cannons to make them larger as it would break the stucture pattern for the defensive weapons emplacements.

Adding an elevator or cherry picker in not viable either. Where would it go when the platform raises the cannon into position? there isn't room outside the lift platform as that is taken by generators. and no we cannot remove one or we end up with a cannon supported by impossibly small generators. If the cannons are horrizontal it allws for ease of maintenance w/o complicated equiptment. Why make things harder to explain by trying to cram in more objects?

The other reason for the range of motion they are allowed is so that they are able to hit low flying craft at long ranges. the less a cannon can depress the less area it can protect. I can draw a diagram if you want.

basically it comes down to the fact that laser this size take an incredable amount of energy to opperate effectively. Even with alien tech I think it will be hard pressed to plausibly increase cannon size.

I am going to leave these cannon at their current size and possibly consider switching to a two story layout.

Edited by Vaaish, 19 July 2003 - 01:38 PM.

[j'ordos]

Oh well, I didn't really mean to suggest the cannons were small (but now I read it agian that's actually what it said ), but something in the line of: the facilty seems rather large for what defenses there seem to be. But then again, if there's so much space needed for generators, forget what I posted here

[Vaaish]

Oh well, I didn't really mean to suggest the cannons were small (but now I read it agian that's actually what it said ), but something in the line of: the facilty seems rather large for what defenses there seem to be. But then again, if there's so much space needed for generators, forget what I posted here

one half is dedicated to the targeting and control consoles for the defenses and the space between + the reinforced walls protect the rest of the module from an explosion or either the weapon or the generators.

So yes there may seem to be alot of empty space but this is going to be a nightmare to attack through. I would suggest putting these and the storage facility far from where an alien could enter hte base.

[miceless]

Making the cannons any larger will exceed the plausable size for the generator structure.  making them larger will not add anything to thir look and we don't want to get out of hand just making them massive to look massive.  already each laser beam is quite a bit bigger around than a mans head and quite frankly that is a massive laser. In fact I would guess the largest defensive laser built do day does not come anywhere near that size.

Yeah, thats why i suggested more barrels.

I think its better now than it was before. It just looked a bit pathetic. I didnt say we should make them absolutely huge, but they needed beefing up.

Maybe it will look better with a bit of 'junk' around.

EDIT: Sentence structure

Edited by miceless, 20 July 2003 - 01:04 AM.

[Micah]

'junk' will be added later, as individual models, if I remember correctly. Vaaish is working on the plain base facilities themselves first.

[miceless]

Yeah, i realise that. Sorry, i phrased that last statement wrong (have edited it).

Can we get an up to date shot of the whole module, from above. Like the third pic in this topic. Please?

Edited by miceless, 20 July 2003 - 01:05 AM.

[Vaaish]

here ya go

I'll be moding on to the plasma defense this evening or tomorrow. I don't think that this needs to be two stories ATM, not enough stuff to put up there.

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•  df.jpg   14.71K   9 downloads

Edited by Vaaish, 20 July 2003 - 12:09 PM.

[miceless]

Bah, better i suppose but im still not sure. Oh well.

[mikker]

I agree about having them on a raised platform....that way, it could be bigger.

If you could put the stuff in the middle (simmilar to DrewIDs), this would make you able to make it a bit bigger, and add 2 more (or just have 2 big ones, if polycount gets tough).

I think the room is unbalanced.....too much stuff in one site, and nothing at the other side. By putting all (you COULD have some 'junk' in the corners though) in the middle, this would surely help i belive.

[miceless]

Hear hear. Thats two votes...

[Vaaish]

I recon with some boxes n stuff it wouldn't be a problem. A couple of comps in the middle section to control defences could answer the balance issue, would make logical sense AND would be prob less polys than a whole platform ( unless I misunderstood what u meant by raised platform )

the middle section will have no computer consoles as the c&c area are on the far side. placing aditional consiles there would be illogical. The central part is a corridor and extended buffer area. there will be a few boxes and maybe some spare parts there.

[chrisp_21]

What does it take to get some "friggin" dolphins with "friggin" lasers
on their heads?

Anyhoot.. it's just a friggin laser. It's a pretty small part of the game.
I guess you may wonder in there maybe once or twice during the game..
It does look better to me with two.

[Vaaish]

I agree about having them on a raised platform....that way, it could be bigger.

If you could put the stuff in the middle (simmilar to DrewIDs), this would make you able to make it a bit bigger, and add 2 more (or just have 2 big ones, if polycount gets tough).

I think the room is unbalanced.....too much stuff in one site, and nothing at the other side. By putting all (you COULD have some 'junk' in the corners though) in the middle, this would surely help i belive.

I have already stated that the cannons will not be enlarged. please read my previous posts as to the reason why. We all like big guns but remember this is supposed to be believable. those cannons are probably about the same size as the german 88 from WWII and are a whole lot more destructive.

I am still continuing to consider the merits of a two story layout and how to implement it as well as how the second story should be accessed.

[Vaaish]

that little bitty area is actualy quite sufficient. here isa shot showing the powerarmor inthere for comparison. the idea is that the command section is easily defended so well you don't get aliens having fund using that cannon on the interior of your base.

having two large open areas and big doors on them doesn't help you defend. having one small access hatch and a single door is easier. and if an alien is blocking your path to the weapon it probably means that there wouldn't be anything to shoot it at out there since they have already landed.

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•  test.jpg   15.73K   8 downloads

Edited by Vaaish, 20 July 2003 - 06:23 PM.

[Deimos]

To stop the pointless tweaking, make it a two story layout for all the defence modules. Floor one has ammo storage, capacitors, reserve tanks and whatever. Also have a firing terminal in there, put in an access stairwell to the second level and call it finished.

Endless tweaking is going to be counter productive to the overall project. It looks good as it is Vaaish, concentrate on making the lower level and then move on.

[Vaaish]

To stop the pointless tweaking, make it a two story layout for all the defence modules. Floor one has ammo storage, capacitors, reserve tanks and whatever. Also have a firing terminal in there, put in an access stairwell to the second level and call it finished.

Endless tweaking is going to be counter productive to the overall project. It looks good as it is Vaaish, concentrate on making the lower level and then move on.

acknowledged.

[Vaaish]

that little bitty area is actualy quite sufficient. here isa shot showing the powerarmor inthere for comparison.

Oh, right, ignore me then I thought it was a lot smaller than that. So the middle will probably just be 4 storage equipment right?

correct, though that might change with adding a sublevel.

Edited by Vaaish, 20 July 2003 - 06:34 PM.

[Micah]

To stop the pointless tweaking, make it a two story layout for all the defence modules. Floor one has ammo storage, capacitors, reserve tanks and whatever. Also have a firing terminal in there, put in an access stairwell to the second level and call it finished.

Endless tweaking is going to be counter productive to the overall project. It looks good as it is Vaaish, concentrate on making the lower level and then move on.

Agreed.

[Vaaish]

ok this will take longer than I anticipated. My PSU on my main workstation went out a few minutes ago so I'm stuck on the laptop for a few days.

[miceless]

I thought everything was going to be 2 floors? I mean, it was in the original XCOM, so i had assumed we would do something similar.

[mikker]

go with the 2 story.

[Vaaish]

we aren't tweaking existing modules. only weapons ones or they will never get done.

[Breunor]

Agreed, we should work on finishing the modules for the baseview system. That's the current milestone goal. Later on, if it makes the most sense, we can look at certain modules being 2 seperate stories, rather than a 2 story space that's open.

[Vaaish]

ok here is the lower level for the laser defense and plasma defense. we now have more room for junk on both levels. the lower level with unoptimised generators is at 944 polys. I've not deleted hidden faces yet in case we need them for destroyed items.

the upper level is now 1045 polys

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•  ll01.jpg   12.84K   9 downloads

[Vaaish]

and the second

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•  ll02.jpg   13.59K   10 downloads

[Vaaish]

and a ghosted top portion

the lift to the lower level is on the right side of the module beside the main lift for the cannon. I figgure that this lift mechanism is placed inside the wall.

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•  ll03.jpg   14.01K   9 downloads

[miceless]

Is the top floor the bit you made before then? Have you changed it at all?

[Vaaish]

the onld differance on the top floor is that I removed the generators and made one of the sections a lift platform. The structure and layout of the upper section will remain the same.

[miceless]

Ok, sounds fine.