Vaaish Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 Ok here is the next baseview module... the laser defense module. Everything is the same except for the turret. I'm trying to make each turret fairly recognizable to help diferentiate the modules. questions commments before I move on to the plasma cannon and wrap up the base defense modules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaaish Posted July 17, 2003 Author Share Posted July 17, 2003 and the next Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaaish Posted July 17, 2003 Author Share Posted July 17, 2003 and the last Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miceless Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 Am i the only one who thinks it looks a bit small/pathetic? Seems a waste for an entire base facility. I liked the XCOM ones as they looked like they had lots of missiles/lasers/etc. Perhaps a bigger laser or, even better, more emplacements? That or its just me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaaish Posted July 17, 2003 Author Share Posted July 17, 2003 Am i the only one who thinks it looks a bit small/pathetic? Seems a waste for an entire base facility. I liked the XCOM ones as they looked like they had lots of missiles/lasers/etc. Perhaps a bigger laser or, even better, more emplacements? That or its just me...that laser is already pretty big. here is a pic with referance of the power armor. One issue that we run into is the poly limitations. we aren't doing a prerendered scene this time so we can't cram in tons of weapons. The defenses don't necessarily have to have masses of spares lying around especially since only that platform is being lifted to the surface. Thre reason I stuck with one laser is that these things don't fire like starwars lasers do and most realworld laser weaponry sticks to a single beam. I am hoping to fit dual or quad cannons on the turret for the plasma weaponry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breunor Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 Perhaps scaling the weapon to 2-3x, and rotating it 90 degrees to fit the oblong area better? I agree that it's a bit small, but just 1 weapon works fine if it's big enough. Same number of polys that way. It might hit the walls rotating by the floor, so it's assumed that the weapon is elevated prior to it rotating towards the target. The defense weapon is much bigger IMO than the craft weapon version, I've never seen a laser cannon on the interceptor take a large craft down with one shot like a laser defense can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaaish Posted July 17, 2003 Author Share Posted July 17, 2003 (edited) Perhaps scaling the weapon to 2-3x, and rotating it 90 degrees to fit the oblong area better? I agree that it's a bit small, but just 1 weapon works fine if it's big enough. Same number of polys that way. It might hit the walls rotating by the floor, so it's assumed that the weapon is elevated prior to it rotating towards the target. The defense weapon is much bigger IMO than the craft weapon version, I've never seen a laser cannon on the interceptor take a large craft down with one shot like a laser defense can.There won't be any way to get around the cannon if it is scaled much bigger even rotated EDIT: I played around with it and here is what we have, Edited July 17, 2003 by Vaaish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaaish Posted July 17, 2003 Author Share Posted July 17, 2003 and the one showing the space around it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breunor Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 If the facility is 2 stories high, what about the option of having the weapon platform off the floor, so that personnel can walk under it? Then the weapon can be much bigger. That last pic looks good though, much more substantial IMO, and could work fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaaish Posted July 17, 2003 Author Share Posted July 17, 2003 If the facility is 2 stories high, what about the option of having the weapon platform off the floor, so that personnel can walk under it? Then the weapon can be much bigger. That last pic looks good though, much more substantial IMO, and could work fine.could work but the problem we run into is how do we plan on showing personnel when they go under it? Also we don't want to make the weapons look like they would take more power than the generators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miceless Posted July 19, 2003 Share Posted July 19, 2003 I think its looking better, but it could still be bigger IMO. Having two like that is better. If it was two stories, one would presumably only see the support structure if one was on the lower level, much like things are already done in the current games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j'ordos Posted July 19, 2003 Share Posted July 19, 2003 (edited) Or they could always be rotated upwards, I don't see the need for them to turn horizontal, set aside for maintenance, but an elevator can provide access to it as well. Edited July 19, 2003 by j'ordos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breunor Posted July 19, 2003 Share Posted July 19, 2003 Occlusion would be used to show units under the platform, if that's the correct term. Same as when you go into a building, any polys between the unit and the camera are hidden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miceless Posted July 19, 2003 Share Posted July 19, 2003 Elevator? Do you mean a cherry pickker type thing? That would work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j'ordos Posted July 19, 2003 Share Posted July 19, 2003 What's a cherry pickker? What I meant is: the cannons stand on the 1st floor, but they don't rotate their guns down, rather they stay angled up, say, 60 degrees maybe. That way they could be made bigger, as the barrels won't impede movement around the guns anymore. But maybe they need some maintenance, and then an elevator sending a mechanic up could solve that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaaish Posted July 19, 2003 Author Share Posted July 19, 2003 (edited) Making the cannons any larger will exceed the plausable size for the generator structure. making them larger will not add anything to thir look and we don't want to get out of hand just making them massive to look massive. already each laser beam is quite a bit bigger around than a mans head and quite frankly that is a massive laser. In fact I would guess the largest defensive laser built do day does not come anywhere near that size. Adding a second level is not a viable solution nor is angling the cannons to make them larger as it would break the stucture pattern for the defensive weapons emplacements. Adding an elevator or cherry picker in not viable either. Where would it go when the platform raises the cannon into position? there isn't room outside the lift platform as that is taken by generators. and no we cannot remove one or we end up with a cannon supported by impossibly small generators. If the cannons are horrizontal it allws for ease of maintenance w/o complicated equiptment. Why make things harder to explain by trying to cram in more objects? The other reason for the range of motion they are allowed is so that they are able to hit low flying craft at long ranges. the less a cannon can depress the less area it can protect. I can draw a diagram if you want. basically it comes down to the fact that laser this size take an incredable amount of energy to opperate effectively. Even with alien tech I think it will be hard pressed to plausibly increase cannon size. I am going to leave these cannon at their current size and possibly consider switching to a two story layout. Edited July 19, 2003 by Vaaish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim69 Posted July 19, 2003 Share Posted July 19, 2003 I agree with Vaaish on this 1, remember that there will probably be some maintenance equipment laying around so it will look a little more crapt in there in game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j'ordos Posted July 19, 2003 Share Posted July 19, 2003 Oh well, I didn't really mean to suggest the cannons were small (but now I read it agian that's actually what it said ), but something in the line of: the facilty seems rather large for what defenses there seem to be. But then again, if there's so much space needed for generators, forget what I posted here :Blush: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaaish Posted July 19, 2003 Author Share Posted July 19, 2003 Oh well, I didn't really mean to suggest the cannons were small (but now I read it agian that's actually what it said ), but something in the line of: the facilty seems rather large for what defenses there seem to be. But then again, if there's so much space needed for generators, forget what I posted here :Blush:one half is dedicated to the targeting and control consoles for the defenses and the space between + the reinforced walls protect the rest of the module from an explosion or either the weapon or the generators. So yes there may seem to be alot of empty space but this is going to be a nightmare to attack through. I would suggest putting these and the storage facility far from where an alien could enter hte base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miceless Posted July 19, 2003 Share Posted July 19, 2003 (edited) Making the cannons any larger will exceed the plausable size for the generator structure. making them larger will not add anything to thir look and we don't want to get out of hand just making them massive to look massive. already each laser beam is quite a bit bigger around than a mans head and quite frankly that is a massive laser. In fact I would guess the largest defensive laser built do day does not come anywhere near that size.Yeah, thats why i suggested more barrels. I think its better now than it was before. It just looked a bit pathetic. I didnt say we should make them absolutely huge, but they needed beefing up. Maybe it will look better with a bit of 'junk' around. EDIT: Sentence structure Edited July 20, 2003 by miceless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[[Micah]] Posted July 20, 2003 Share Posted July 20, 2003 'junk' will be added later, as individual models, if I remember correctly. Vaaish is working on the plain base facilities themselves first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miceless Posted July 20, 2003 Share Posted July 20, 2003 (edited) Yeah, i realise that. Sorry, i phrased that last statement wrong (have edited it). Can we get an up to date shot of the whole module, from above. Like the third pic in this topic. Please? Edited July 20, 2003 by miceless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaaish Posted July 20, 2003 Author Share Posted July 20, 2003 (edited) here ya go I'll be moding on to the plasma defense this evening or tomorrow. I don't think that this needs to be two stories ATM, not enough stuff to put up there. Edited July 20, 2003 by Vaaish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miceless Posted July 20, 2003 Share Posted July 20, 2003 Bah, better i suppose but im still not sure. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikker Posted July 20, 2003 Share Posted July 20, 2003 I agree about having them on a raised platform....that way, it could be bigger. If you could put the stuff in the middle (simmilar to DrewIDs), this would make you able to make it a bit bigger, and add 2 more (or just have 2 big ones, if polycount gets tough). I think the room is unbalanced.....too much stuff in one site, and nothing at the other side. By putting all (you COULD have some 'junk' in the corners though) in the middle, this would surely help i belive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miceless Posted July 20, 2003 Share Posted July 20, 2003 Hear hear. Thats two votes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim69 Posted July 20, 2003 Share Posted July 20, 2003 I recon with some boxes n stuff it wouldn't be a problem. A couple of comps in the middle section to control defences could answer the balance issue, would make logical sense AND would be prob less polys than a whole platform ( unless I misunderstood what u meant by raised platform ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaaish Posted July 21, 2003 Author Share Posted July 21, 2003 I recon with some boxes n stuff it wouldn't be a problem. A couple of comps in the middle section to control defences could answer the balance issue, would make logical sense AND would be prob less polys than a whole platform ( unless I misunderstood what u meant by raised platform )the middle section will have no computer consoles as the c&c area are on the far side. placing aditional consiles there would be illogical. The central part is a corridor and extended buffer area. there will be a few boxes and maybe some spare parts there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp_21 Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 What does it take to get some "friggin" dolphins with "friggin" laserson their heads? Anyhoot.. it's just a friggin laser. It's a pretty small part of the game.I guess you may wonder in there maybe once or twice during the game..It does look better to me with two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim69 Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 I recon with some boxes n stuff it wouldn't be a problem. A couple of comps in the middle section to control defences could answer the balance issue, would make logical sense AND would be prob less polys than a whole platform ( unless I misunderstood what u meant by raised platform )the middle section will have no computer consoles as the c&c area are on the far side. placing aditional consiles there would be illogical. The central part is a corridor and extended buffer area. there will be a few boxes and maybe some spare parts there. What, that tiny little space? Bit small innit? Not that I particually care that much, it would have just made more sense 2 me 2 make use of the space thats more open and accessable from 2 different directions in case of emergence ( such as Battleship incoming ). I could be missing something tho, I dunno. Just IMO as usual tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaaish Posted July 21, 2003 Author Share Posted July 21, 2003 I agree about having them on a raised platform....that way, it could be bigger. If you could put the stuff in the middle (simmilar to DrewIDs), this would make you able to make it a bit bigger, and add 2 more (or just have 2 big ones, if polycount gets tough). I think the room is unbalanced.....too much stuff in one site, and nothing at the other side. By putting all (you COULD have some 'junk' in the corners though) in the middle, this would surely help i belive.I have already stated that the cannons will not be enlarged. please read my previous posts as to the reason why. We all like big guns but remember this is supposed to be believable. those cannons are probably about the same size as the german 88 from WWII and are a whole lot more destructive. I am still continuing to consider the merits of a two story layout and how to implement it as well as how the second story should be accessed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaaish Posted July 21, 2003 Author Share Posted July 21, 2003 (edited) that little bitty area is actualy quite sufficient. here isa shot showing the powerarmor inthere for comparison. the idea is that the command section is easily defended so well you don't get aliens having fund using that cannon on the interior of your base. having two large open areas and big doors on them doesn't help you defend. having one small access hatch and a single door is easier. and if an alien is blocking your path to the weapon it probably means that there wouldn't be anything to shoot it at out there since they have already landed. Edited July 21, 2003 by Vaaish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deimos Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 To stop the pointless tweaking, make it a two story layout for all the defence modules. Floor one has ammo storage, capacitors, reserve tanks and whatever. Also have a firing terminal in there, put in an access stairwell to the second level and call it finished. Endless tweaking is going to be counter productive to the overall project. It looks good as it is Vaaish, concentrate on making the lower level and then move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim69 Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 that little bitty area is actualy quite sufficient. here isa shot showing the powerarmor inthere for comparison.Oh, right, ignore me then I thought it was a lot smaller than that. So the middle will probably just be 4 storage equipment right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaaish Posted July 21, 2003 Author Share Posted July 21, 2003 To stop the pointless tweaking, make it a two story layout for all the defence modules. Floor one has ammo storage, capacitors, reserve tanks and whatever. Also have a firing terminal in there, put in an access stairwell to the second level and call it finished. Endless tweaking is going to be counter productive to the overall project. It looks good as it is Vaaish, concentrate on making the lower level and then move on.acknowledged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaaish Posted July 21, 2003 Author Share Posted July 21, 2003 (edited) that little bitty area is actualy quite sufficient. here isa shot showing the powerarmor inthere for comparison.Oh, right, ignore me then I thought it was a lot smaller than that. So the middle will probably just be 4 storage equipment right? correct, though that might change with adding a sublevel. Edited July 21, 2003 by Vaaish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[[Micah]] Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 To stop the pointless tweaking, make it a two story layout for all the defence modules. Floor one has ammo storage, capacitors, reserve tanks and whatever. Also have a firing terminal in there, put in an access stairwell to the second level and call it finished. Endless tweaking is going to be counter productive to the overall project. It looks good as it is Vaaish, concentrate on making the lower level and then move on.Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaaish Posted July 21, 2003 Author Share Posted July 21, 2003 ok this will take longer than I anticipated. My PSU on my main workstation went out a few minutes ago so I'm stuck on the laptop for a few days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest drewid Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 If we're gonna do that we could stick a floor 2 into the crew quarters with extra bunks and a gym/lounge thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miceless Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 I thought everything was going to be 2 floors? I mean, it was in the original XCOM, so i had assumed we would do something similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikker Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 go with the 2 story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaaish Posted July 21, 2003 Author Share Posted July 21, 2003 we aren't tweaking existing modules. only weapons ones or they will never get done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breunor Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Agreed, we should work on finishing the modules for the baseview system. That's the current milestone goal. Later on, if it makes the most sense, we can look at certain modules being 2 seperate stories, rather than a 2 story space that's open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaaish Posted July 22, 2003 Author Share Posted July 22, 2003 ok here is the lower level for the laser defense and plasma defense. we now have more room for junk on both levels. the lower level with unoptimised generators is at 944 polys. I've not deleted hidden faces yet in case we need them for destroyed items. the upper level is now 1045 polys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaaish Posted July 22, 2003 Author Share Posted July 22, 2003 and the second Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaaish Posted July 22, 2003 Author Share Posted July 22, 2003 and a ghosted top portion the lift to the lower level is on the right side of the module beside the main lift for the cannon. I figgure that this lift mechanism is placed inside the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miceless Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 Is the top floor the bit you made before then? Have you changed it at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaaish Posted July 22, 2003 Author Share Posted July 22, 2003 the onld differance on the top floor is that I removed the generators and made one of the sections a lift platform. The structure and layout of the upper section will remain the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miceless Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 Ok, sounds fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest drewid Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 looking good. I should get some more time for texturing tomorrow, hopefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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