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CTD - Plasma Principles


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#1 tzuchan

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Posted 30 July 2003 - 12:34 AM

Cpt. Boxershorts and I have put our heads together again for yet another CTD, and I'm proud to present to you all, the Plasma Weapon CTD.

All hail Cpt. Boxershorts! :master:

Comments and opinions welcomed.

[Edit]

Implemented Miceless's changes

[Edit]
Version 3 up

[Edit]
Plasma - newtype up... Please read and review.

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Edited by tzuchan, 02 December 2003 - 09:01 PM.

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#2 miceless

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Posted 30 July 2003 - 01:09 AM

:whatwhat: Im picky, my mum is an english teacher. You are going to hate me soon...

[quote]While plasma-based weaponry has been a staple in science fiction ...[/quote]
I dont like the way thats worded, but maybe thats just me...

[quote]... with a large facitly, and even ...[/quote]
'facility'

[quote]... of all three types of plasma weapons ...[/quote]
Are they 'types'? Arent they just different sizes? Comment.

[quote]... unique material, elerium-115 that serves as ...[/quote]
"... unique material, elerium-115, that serves as ..."
Does the above read better? I think so.

[quote]... have finally discovered the theory behind which the plasma weapons work.[/quote]
"... have finally discovered the theory behind plasma weapons."
... or ...
"... have finally discovered the way that plasma weapons work."
... sounds better to me.

[quote]We are ready to develop plasma weaponary equal to or beyond ...[/quote]
"Weaponry"

[quote]... plasma weaponry used by the aliens have several common links.[/quote]
"... several similarities."
... or ...
"... several things in common."

[quote]... magnets terminated with magnetodynamic prongs one end and a plasma ...[/quote]
Im assuming you know what you're talking about here...
Anyway, im fairly sure it should be "... on one end ..."

[quote]compressed into a tight jet of particles.[/quote]
I like "stream" better.

[quote]The magnetic promenances on the barrel then focus and accelerate the resultant plasma into tight bursts.[/quote]
Im not sure what you're on about here, but apparently its spelt "prominences".

[quote]Without it, it is likely the radiant heat generated by the plasma would have killed the user as well as the target.[/quote]
Heat sinks dont stop radiated heat, do they? They conduct heat off the gun onto them and then radiate it away. This sounds wrong. Replace it with "excess" or something.

[quote]The energy requirements to generate the plasma required would have been prohibitively ...[/quote]
Repetition of "require...". Get out the thesaurus.

[quote]During our research into the Invader's captured weapons.[/quote]
Invaders eh? Did they get promoted or something? Isn't "invaders" better?

[quote]However, when this mixture is bombarded with by high energy particles ...[/quote]
One or the other, not both.

[quote]We must learn as much as we can before the Invaders discover our location.[/quote]
Eep, its the Invaders again!

*phew* I think thats enough for now...

Edited by miceless, 30 July 2003 - 01:10 AM.

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#3 tzuchan

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Posted 30 July 2003 - 01:26 AM

The three types of plasma weapons refered to would have been the plasma pistol, plasma rifle and heavy plasma. Since in the game, you'd have to research all three before researching plasma weapons, I think that's be pretty self evident...

Regarding the capitalization of Invader as opposed to invader, I think Cpt. Boxershorts was using it as a name for the aliens invading earth. Not the first time that's been done, I think.

Anyway, on the whole, thanks for catching the problems in the document.
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#4 miceless

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Posted 30 July 2003 - 01:37 AM

The three types of plasma weapons refered to would have been the plasma pistol, plasma rifle and heavy plasma. Since in the game, you'd have to research all three before researching plasma weapons, I think that's be pretty self evident...

I realise all that, but I think of them as more different sizes rather than types. Maybe thats just me. Feel free to ignore the comment.

Regarding the capitalization of Invader as opposed to invader, I think Cpt. Boxershorts was using it as a name for the aliens invading earth. Not the first time that's been done, I think.

Hmmm, im not sure I agree with it being used like that, but oh well.

Anyway, on the whole, thanks for catching the problems in the document.

Your welcome. Post a new version and ill check it again.
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#5 Denevive

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Posted 30 July 2003 - 10:10 PM

Well, nice work, but I have a few comments.

First of all, drop your last sentence. It strikes me as a line from a terrible 1950's B movie. I say kill it. Next off, I wanted to say that though you've done well with your techno-babble, the way it is currently worded gets in the way of the overall effect of the entry. It just doesn't flow well. Right now it reads like an engineering spec, not a report.
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#6 tzuchan

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Posted 31 July 2003 - 04:48 PM

First of all, drop your last sentence. It strikes me as a line from a terrible 1950's B movie.


:huh?: And aliens don't belong in a B-grade movie? :D I'll see if I can rewrite it to sound better first.

Next off, I wanted to say that though you've done well with your techno-babble, the way it is currently worded gets in the way of the overall effect of the entry. It just doesn't flow well. Right now it reads like an engineering spec, not a report.



Glad you liked my techno-babble! :D Personally, IMHO, If I managed to get it to sound like an engineer wrote it, I would have to say that I achieved my goal... Especially if you consider the fact that we're actually reverse engineering the alien's tech...
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#7 Fred the Goat

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Posted 01 August 2003 - 03:05 PM

I agree with both a yez. Tzuchan's entry does sound kinda disconnected, like "this is an interesting specimen" as opposed to "sir, we've just found out how to work this freaky gun, we're planning to kick @ss with it, if you don't mind" But on the other hand, that's not necessarily a bad thing. I think we need the opinion of Gold or Breunor, and for the former we'll have to wait till he's had his fill of Phish.

#8 GreatGold

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Posted 05 August 2003 - 01:27 AM

Hey -

I literally just got back, and I'm THIS close to passing out. So I'll keep this breif for now. I think its best to have the reports read as technical in nature (as in written by an engineer), and then connected at a more layman level by the fluff quote at the end.

This allows the entry to be useful to the player, as well as immersive and fun to read. If we made it too "just point and shoot the bloody thing", than the entry loses some of its appeal and purpose. And by adding the fun quote at the end, the entry still gets the "grainy" feel.

Also, all the entries to this point seem written in a technical manner, seems silly to change that now.

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#9 red knight

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Posted 05 August 2003 - 04:10 PM

I certainly liked the comments of the scientists involved in the research of an item... this is a perfect spot for one or two of those comments...

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#10 Fred the Goat

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 10:04 AM

:blink: ...giving someone else a chance... :D

#11 Fred the Goat

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Posted 08 August 2003 - 12:11 AM

DAMMIT! I HAD IT AND I TIMED OUT! Fine, I'm redoing it while it's fresh.

Elerium required for plasma conversion of 0.05 mL heavy water: 0.013 g.
Elerium required for plasma conversion of 3.03 g scrap steel: 0.829 g.
Elerium required for plasma conversion of 1.44 kg scrap wood: 4.38 g.
Elerium required for plasma conversion of light bulb: 0.274 g.
Elerium required for plasma conversion of desk lamp: 5.98 g.
Elerium required for plasma conversion of mouse trap and carcass: 0.739 g.


"Yeah, Marshall's been playing a bit much with the prototype. I've actually found myself whishing he'd go back to liquid nitrogen. At least that didn't leave plasma burns on the work benches."
- Noushin Milarepa

Edited by Fred the Goat, 08 August 2003 - 12:12 AM.


#12 tzuchan

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Posted 08 August 2003 - 04:50 AM

:blink: That sounds like it's so much fun that it's illegal...

Very creative idea for a fluff text :D .
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#13 GreatGold

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Posted 08 August 2003 - 09:07 AM

Hahhahaha -

I love that quote!

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#14 Fred the Goat

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Posted 13 August 2003 - 08:19 PM

I aim to please :plasma: :D

Edited by Fred the Goat, 13 August 2003 - 08:19 PM.


#15 Cpt. Boxershorts

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Posted 05 October 2003 - 12:17 PM

Since it looks like tzuchan and I let this fall through the cracks, here's the updated version. Replaced "Invaders" with "invaders" in a couple places, and took out a spot where it seemed repetitive. Added Fred The Goat's fluff text, with a little formatting.

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#16 tzuchan

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Posted 15 November 2003 - 02:13 AM

"Yeah, Marshall's been playing a bit much with the prototype. I've actually found myself whishing he'd go back to liquid nitrogen. At least that didn't leave plasma burns on the work benches."
- Noushin Milarepa


Erm... will somebody tell me what "whishing" means?
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#17 Cartesian

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Posted 15 November 2003 - 06:13 AM

What stops the plasma from dispersing as it leaves the chammber of the rifle? (think aerosol spray).

why use elerium as a mixture with heavy water? why not use elerium as the power source for the weapon which then heats the material and ejects it?

you state thaat the helium/elerium mixture is incredibly stable, but when high energy particles bombard it a chain reaction takes place cocnverting it into plasma. Would you be shocked if i said that we are constantly being bombarded by high energy particles?
this doesnt particularly bother us, but then again we don't undergo chain reactions under bombardment beaucse we aren't in a high energy state.
the other thing is for the chain reaction to take place the mixture has to be in a stable but higher energy state than plasma so that when the chain reaction begins it has a lower energy plasma state to phase into.

superconductors lose their superconductivity as temp rises so its probably not a good idea using them as heat sinks for plasma. when heat sinks work they emit heat convectively (through the medium) and radiatively (through light). If these things are emiting heat they are liekly to cook the user.

perhaps it would be better to say something about how excess heat isn't generated in the weapons due to the alien material and so the vast majority of the energy generated goes into the plasma and not into the weapon and hecen general environment?

#18 tzuchan

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Posted 15 November 2003 - 09:02 AM

What stops the plasma from dispersing as it leaves the chammber of the rifle? (think aerosol spray).


The same reason why lasers in Star Wars are visible, transporters work in Star Trek, wars being fought with giant robots in Mechwarrior....

It's sci-fi...

Yes, we want to make it as realistic as possible, but if we really wanted to get down to it, there's a limit to how realistic we can make a game that has humans fighting with little grey aliens from Mars.

why use elerium as a mixture with heavy water? why not use elerium as the power source for the weapon which then heats the material and ejects it?


Part of this has to do with the weapon design for the plasma weapon series. And please look a bit closer, the elerium-helium compound is all that is needed to create plasma, and the heavy water's there as reaction matter, meaning you don't really need to use it, you're just using it for more mass. Think the use of deplete uranium in cannon rounds. They don't use it because it's necessary, they use it cause it's heavier, hence causes more damage.

you state thaat the helium/elerium mixture is incredibly stable, but when high energy particles bombard it a chain reaction takes place cocnverting it into plasma. Would you be shocked if i said that we are constantly being bombarded by high energy particles?


Not particularly... Although I though we are mostly shielded by the earth's magnetic field... And I seem to recall the use of magnets in the design of the weapon.

the other thing is for the chain reaction to take place the mixture has to be in a stable but higher energy state than plasma so that when the chain reaction begins it has a lower energy plasma state to phase into.


Erm... I don't particulary parse this sentence... Won't weapon designers prefer to fire high energy plasma due to the fact that it has more energy which in my mind atleast, means more damage? Also, the elerium-helium coupound is not yet in plasma state, it's just that it only requires a little more energy to convert into plasma, and in the process, release enough energy itself to start a chain reaction.

superconductors lose their superconductivity as temp rises so its probably not a good idea using them as heat sinks for plasma. when heat sinks work they emit heat convectively (through the medium) and radiatively (through light). If these things are emiting heat they are liekly to cook the user.


Please read through the alien alloys CTD... I'm pretty sure that "Room temperature superconducting materials" or something like that was mention in there. Although I concede the point that you're probrably correct on the heatsink part. Until I come up with a better idea, we are probrably quite stuck on that for the moment.


perhaps it would be better to say something about how excess heat isn't generated in the weapons due to the alien material and so the vast majority of the energy generated goes into the plasma and not into the weapon and hecen general environment?


And this sounds about as trekkie as the basic idea that the plasma won't disperse... The heat that the heatsink has to take away has nothing to do with the basic design of the weapon or the materials used in it in the first place. It has every thing to do with what it is design to create. Plasma hot enough to blow a hole in a tank. That, even generated outside a weapon, is going to be considerably hot and will definately radiate enough heat to seriously heat up the weapon.

While I'm defending the current CTD, please note that most of this are likely to be severely affected by how much the elerium CTD is going to change... Also, I am going to try to come up with a better idea for the heatsink.
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#19 tzuchan

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Posted 19 November 2003 - 11:40 PM

Hmm...
Updated to reflect changes in Xenium-122 CTD.

Modified/added to heatsink component, read and review please!

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#20 Cartesian

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Posted 20 November 2003 - 01:46 AM

Room temp superconductors are OK, but plasma temp supercconductors are not. i can talk about how superconductors workk if you want. (current theories)

Its cool if at the end of the day we have to appeal to trekkie physics, but it isnt my opinion that we have to.

I think that if we take a normal solid slug of mattter and heat it upp till the core turns into plasma and eject it in the same manner which a ccold piece of metal would be ejected by a rail gun would be, we could have a nice plasma weapon.

one might ask how you heat up the middle of the matter without affecting the outside too much. one could do this in the manner which a microwave works, bu the problem with this is that too much heat is radiated away during the heating process, whch leads to heatsink problems..

perhaps we could just take your blob of xenium and water, put it inside the shell and fire thhat. that way we have an explainnation as to why it is cohesive. the shell could be thin so that on impact it rapidly deforms (as the plasma inside is rapidly melting it) and the plasma is dispersed on the target?

Edited by Cartesian, 20 November 2003 - 05:21 AM.


#21 tzuchan

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Posted 20 November 2003 - 08:37 AM

While creating plasma from a metal slug would probrably make more sense as it is denser material, hence having more atoms to turn into plasma, it would still have the same problem that it'll disperse after leaving the barrel...

Anyway, you've given me some ideas to think about for the plasma firing/creation system and I'll cook the ideas on a slow boil and see what can I come up with.

Speaking off which, would it really be necessary for heat sinks to be made of materials that are super-conductive? I'm thinking if we change it into ceremic materials capable of withstanding and absorbing very high temperatures?
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#22 Cpt. Boxershorts

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Posted 20 November 2003 - 02:22 PM

The point behind making the heat sinks superconductive was that a superconductor is a heat sink. It will be the same temperature the entire length, no matter how much you heat one end. The idea was that it 'wicks' away the heat from the reaction chamber to radiators (or maybe even into a heat power generater for recovery and storage).

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#23 tzuchan

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Posted 20 November 2003 - 05:09 PM

Well, I guess we forgot about the radiator the last time around. BTW Cpt, check out the new CTD, especially the part about the dissipator.

BTW, can anyone confirm to me whether the superconducter elements we are using capable of retaining their superconductivity even at plasma weapon temps?
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#24 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 20 November 2003 - 06:30 PM

Aren't we using alien alloys as our superconductors? Can't we just say that alien alloys can maintian superconductivity even when faced with extreme heat?
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#25 Cartesian

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Posted 20 November 2003 - 06:50 PM

The prob with having plasma temp superconductors is thatt SCs work by having a very rigid lattice of atoms that dont have much/any thermal motion. this allows the electrons to create channels/flows through the material without any resistance. there migt be additional effects due to "slipstreaming" of electrons. all of this relies on having no thermal motion.


currennt "hot" SCs are stiill below 0degC. room temp SC we can have thru the magic of sci-fi and alien alloys. plasma temp SCs we cannot have due to the fact one electron/ion/photon will have sufficient energy to disrupt the lattice (IMO) as it is very high energy.

put another way, you want a plasma SC where the electrons dont behave as normal electrons and wont ionise. I think itd be better just to say "it has heatsinks" rather than "SC heatsinks"

as for the metal slug idea, think of it as a soft boiled eggg where the inside is plasma (from the water xenium mix), the outside still relatively cool. the plasma will melt thru the shell eventually (<1sec if so desried), but this will be enough for it to eject the rifle and travel a few hundred meters. this also explains why we have clips of ~30 rounds in an ammo container. so in essance it is taking your idea, and putting a metal envelope around it.

Edited by Cartesian, 20 November 2003 - 09:39 PM.


#26 tzuchan

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Posted 21 November 2003 - 03:57 AM

Hey Cartesian, can you check out the Model Concepts thread here (http://www.xcomufo.c...opic=1033&st=70) for the Plasma Weapon design and theory behind the design?

If we wanted to use slug based plasma weapons, we might have to do a total redesign of the models... That's find by me either way since I only do the CTDs, the the modellers might get a little grumpy at you...
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#27 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 21 November 2003 - 02:20 PM

They would get very grumpy indeed. "Change the CTD before the Model!!!" seems to be the Art Dept's motto. :(

Although I can understand why, what with the amount of work it takes to make a new model...

Edited by Cpl. Facehugger, 21 November 2003 - 02:20 PM.

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#28 X-Clu-Zif

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Posted 21 November 2003 - 02:31 PM

They would get very grumpy indeed. "Change the CTD before the Model!!!" seems to be the Art Dept's motto. :(

Although I can understand why, what with the amount of work it takes to make a new model...

Which is why I'm not going to do anything before I get an idea of how the models are going to look... except someone promised me that the Sectoids would stay small grey and big eyed...

#29 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 21 November 2003 - 03:55 PM

Yup. That is pretty much the only constant. :)
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#30 X-Clu-Zif

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Posted 21 November 2003 - 04:02 PM

Yup. That is pretty much the only constant. :)

ANYONE have some models that I can write something about, while I think about the homeworlds thingie...

#31 Cartesian

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Posted 22 November 2003 - 12:01 AM

Uhhhh... it appears its a bad thing i've come in so late.

So the standard plasma rifle design seems to be an obloid, with some spikes out the front and a pistol grip and a stock?

I liked the gun-golve idea. thats pretty cool and alien.

Things that would need to be changed if we were going to go with the "boiled egg" idea:

this clip would have to be nearer the stock so that the barrel has some length in which the slug can be accelerated. (why does it have to be a square/curved clip? why not a cylinder that clips in the top? etc as this may make it easier to redeisgn. this is kinda important i guess. perhaps the clip is loaded in the grip/stock?

things that dont need to be changed: everything else! ;)

the spikes at the fron may not be strictly necessary anymore. you might still want them still so that any escaping superhot gases are propelled forwards, away from the user. So it isnt necessary that they go.

the pipes can stick around for whatever reason they are there. coolant? who knows.

things that look cool though and thats the most important thing really.

#32 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 22 November 2003 - 06:28 PM

The Plasma Rifle looks more like an larger plasma pistol (glove, etc.) and it has a grip on front of it to allow better control of the weapon.
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#33 mikker

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Posted 23 November 2003 - 08:43 AM

All hail Cpt. Boxershorts! :master:

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#34 tzuchan

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Posted 02 December 2003 - 09:05 PM

Okay guys, based on Cartesian's suggestion and after simmering my muse in a slow-cooker for a long time, a new version of the plasma CTD... Please note, MAJOR change in the plasma generation sequence, no more particle accelerators, and a critical role for heavy water...

Also, much as I would like to keep using Fred's Fluff text, we'd need a new one...

Are you up to the challenge, Fred?

Anyway, please read and comment. I want to know if i'm going on the right track here or should I fall back to the original design.

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Edited by tzuchan, 02 December 2003 - 09:06 PM.

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#35 tzuchan

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Posted 02 December 2003 - 09:09 PM

In case people don't like opening RTF files:

Plasma Weapons

While plasma-based weaponry has been a staple in science fiction, the obstacles involved in reaction containment and sustainment could only be overcome with a large facility, and even then only briefly. However, the arrival of the aliens with their advanced weapons and materials caused us to question our previous conclusions. With the study of all three types of plasma weapons recovered from the battlefield, together with our detailed analysis of the unique material, Xenium-122, that serves as their fuel and ammunition, we have finally have finally discovered the theory behind plasma weapons. We can now develop plasma weaponry equal to or beyond that of the alien invaders.

All three types of handheld plasma weaponry used by the aliens have several similarities. The heart of the plasma weapon consists of a "funnel" of superconductor magnets terminated with magneto dynamic prongs on one end and a plasma generating chamber at the other. Plasma generated in the chamber is forced through the magnetic funnel by a brief electromagnetic pulse. As the plasma passes through the funnel, it is compressed into a tight stream of particles. The magnetic prominences on the barrel then focus and accelerate the resultant plasma into tight bursts.

Another integral part of plasma weapon design is the high efficiency heatsink. Formed of a variation of ceramic compounds found in the alien alloy, this component acts as an advanced heat sink. Without it, it is likely the heat generated by the plasma would have killed the user as well as the target. It is unlikely that weapon itself would survive without it. The heat sink draws the heat generated by the plasma burst from the barrel into a heat dissipater located along the edges of the magneto dynamic prongs. This also contains and disperses the powerful electromagnetic fields generated when firing the weapon.

The energy requirements to generate a electromagnetic pulse strong enough to force the plasma into the magnectic funnel would have been prohibitively high if it were it not for the unique interaction of the plasma and the magnetic field of the barrel. As the plasma passes through the magnetic containment fields, it forces the magnetic field to shift away from the plasma. Using this effect, enough power can be generated to fire the next beam simply by wrapping series of superconducting alloys along the magnetic funnel.

During our research into the invaders' captured weapons, it has been noted that they have two ammunition containers, one containing a simple Deuterium Dioxide solution, better know as heavy water. The other, however, contains a unique gel-like compound. Further texting on this unique material revealed that it is a compound manufactured from Xenium-122. When Xenium-122 is ground into a fine powder and mixed into molten radioactive materials such as uranium, the resulting mixture cools into a gel-like state at room temperature. What makes this compound unique is the fact that it has all of the attributes of plasma, yet is stable enough to be stored for long periods of time. However, when this "Plasma-gel" is mixed with heavy water, it starts a high-energy reaction, causing the Plasma-gel to convert itself into high-energy plasma. The ability to replicate Plasma-gel has proven to be vital in the creation of portable alien plasma weapons.

As a result of our research into Xenium-122 and its relationship with plasma physics, we have discovered a potential method of plasma generation that might be even more efficient than that of the alien invaders. We must learn as much as we can before this extraterrestrial menace discovers our location.


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#36 Gutter Monkey

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Posted 02 December 2003 - 10:06 PM

Sounds great. I like the idea of the cooled plasma gel. No I know why my heavy plasmas chew Elieri- uh..whatever it's called- like candy!

#37 Cartesian

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Posted 02 December 2003 - 11:33 PM

This is cool except the bit about the gel which doesnt gel with me. We shouldnt say ground xenium as this implies some sort of physical process. Perhaps a better word would be fractured. And we dont say how we fracture it ;) perhaps we can make xenium liquid with some intersting process?

Its important to note that xenium isnt normal matter, its spacetime made solid. So we wouldnt expect it to "mix" with normal stuff and have an interesting reaction, even if we grind it up.

plasma is a very hot gas like state of matter. so gel wouldnt have the properties of plasma. we could have a *crystal* (crystals are important) made out of xenium and something else that when activated (presumably by a magnetic field) it breaks down into plasma. I guess. I'd have to think hard how the pseudo science would work. the basic idea is that crystals have lots of structure, which can store energy in the bonds. (like uranium). once you start to break down that structure into a lower energy/mass form of matter you get radiation released. radiation can be used to buy goods and services...no wait, radiation can be used to make stuff hot.

why did you pick molten uranium as the stuff to mix the xenium with? what was the reasoning? perhaps we can use that train of thought.

#38 tzuchan

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Posted 03 December 2003 - 05:08 AM

I kinda had an idea for magnectically activated plasma gel firing system where by the gel, like plasma, can be fired from the plasma gun using the magnectic fields, and in the process of doing so, convert into plasma due to the magnetic fields... Unfortunately, given the fact that anything that uses electricity is going to give off electromagnetic fields, that doesn't sound like the safest thing to have around...

Anyway, will continue to simmer my muse for a while...
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#39 Cartesian

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Posted 03 December 2003 - 06:03 AM

theres magnetic fields and then theres magnetic fields.

the earth has a magnetic field (how comapsses work) but you dont worry about that when sticking a fridge magnet onto ya fridge.

similiarly dont worry about electricity (currents) causing magnetic fields. in the xenium descrition xenium is "activated" using sets of spiinning magnetic fields. this can be as arbitrarily complicated as we want, which means that any electronics/magnetic containment fields aren't gonna mess with the xenium.

so yeah, we could make a gel somehow...*insert thought here*? and then shoot that out the barrel as it is converting into plasma such that the reaction ends as it leaves the barrel.


just some random thoughts:
any particular reason why the "soft boiled egg" idea isn't liked? I just figure that thats the easiest way of killing all our probs in one go. if it isn't liked for aesthetic game reasons fair enough. if it is liked, we could still use this gel idea in the lab for V1.x for a plasma/flame thrower which uses xenium napalm.

#40 tzuchan

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Posted 03 December 2003 - 06:09 AM

Personally, I like the softboil egg idea... I think part of the gel idea came from that... Hmm... Got a brain wave... Gonna cook it first then maybe have a new CTD later...
However, based on the current design of the model, might be quite hard to find a logical place for a clip with solid rounds. Especially if all of the alien plasma weapons are going to end up with sleeves as opposed to pistol grips and such.
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#41 tzuchan

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Posted 03 December 2003 - 09:41 AM

As I was working on my brainwave, I realized something... I'm trying too hard to please everyone and it's beginning to show...

The current CTD is quite indepth, and while it won't please everyone nor hold up to an extensive indepth study of the theory, it does have enough related pesudo-science to apparently make sense....

In anycase, did some revision to the original newtype CTD. Please read and review anyway.

For now, I think we better put the egg idea on hold... We might pull it out if there are changes to the models or post V1.0...

Sorry Cartesian... Thanks for the comments, but at some point I gotta stop and say "This is getting out of hand..."

Here's the CTD for RTF disabled:

Plasma Weapons

While plasma-based weaponry has been a staple in science fiction, the obstacles involved in reaction containment and sustainment could only be overcome with a large facility, and even then only briefly. However, the arrival of the aliens with their advanced weapons and materials caused us to question our previous conclusions. With the study of all three types of plasma weapons recovered from the battlefield, together with our detailed analysis of the unique material, Xenium-122, that serves as their fuel and ammunition, we have finally discovered the theory behind plasma weapons. We can now develop plasma weaponry equal to or beyond that of the alien invaders.

All three types of handheld plasma weaponry used by the aliens have several similarities. The heart of the plasma weapon consists of a "funnel" of superconductor magnets terminated with magneto dynamic prongs on one end and a plasma generating chamber at the other. Plasma generated in the chamber is forced through the magnetic funnel by a brief electromagnetic pulse. As the plasma passes through the funnel, it is compressed into a tight stream of particles. The magnetic prominences on the barrel then focus and accelerate the resultant plasma into tight bursts.

Another integral part of plasma weapon design is the high efficiency heatsink. Formed of a variation of ceramic compounds found in the alien alloy, this component acts as an advanced heat sink. Without it, it is likely the heat generated by the plasma would have killed the user as well as the target. It is unlikely that weapon itself would survive without it. The heat sink draws the heat generated by the plasma burst from the barrel into a heat dissipater located along the edges of the magneto dynamic prongs. This also contains and disperses the powerful electromagnetic fields generated when firing the weapon.

The energy requirements to generate a electromagnetic pulse strong enough to force the plasma into the magnectic funnel would have been prohibitively high if it were it not for the unique interaction of the plasma and the magnetic field of the barrel. As the plasma passes through the magnetic containment fields, it forces the magnetic field to shift away from the plasma. Using this effect, enough power can be generated to fire the next beam simply by wrapping series of superconducting alloys along the magnetic funnel.

During our research into the invaders' captured weapons, it has been noted that they have two ammunition containers, one containing a simple Deuterium Dioxide solution, better know as heavy water. The other, however, contains a unique gel-like compound. Further testing on this unique material revealed that it is a compound manufactured from Xenium-122. When Xenium-122 crystals are exposed to X-ray laser, it fractures into a fine powder. When the resulting powder is with uranium, iron and carbon, the resulting mixture turns into a gel-like state.

What makes this compound unique is the fact that it has all of the attributes of plasma, yet is stable enough to be stored for long periods of time. However, when this "Plasma-gel" is mixed with heavy water, it starts a high-energy reaction, causing the Plasma-gel to convert itself into high-energy plasma. The ability to replicate Plasma-gel has proven to be vital in the creation of portable alien plasma weapons.

As a result of our research into Xenium-122 and its relationship with plasma physics, we have discovered a potential method of plasma generation that might be even more efficient than that of the alien invaders. We must learn as much as we can before this extraterrestrial menace discovers our location.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
FROM THE DESK OF
Dr. Samuel Marshall

Xenium required for plasma conversion of 0.05 mL heavy water: 0.013 g.
Xenium required for plasma conversion of 3.03 g scrap steel: 0.829 g.
Xenium required for plasma conversion of 1.44 kg scrap wood: 4.38 g.
Xenium required for plasma conversion of light bulb: 0.274 g.
Xenium required for plasma conversion of desk lamp: 5.98 g.
Xenium required for plasma conversion of mouse trap and carcass: 0.739 g.

Attached Files


Edited by Breunor, 03 December 2003 - 10:18 AM.

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#42 Breunor

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Posted 03 December 2003 - 10:21 AM

I corrected 2 minor typos in your text, and will update the CT list to include the new entry.

#43 Cpt. Boxershorts

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Posted 03 December 2003 - 04:16 PM

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#44 Anglachel

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Posted 18 December 2003 - 03:08 PM

Aren't we using alien alloys as our superconductors? Can't we just say that alien alloys can maintian superconductivity even when faced with extreme heat?

Frankly, I don't see why not. The lattice formation does not seem to play that major of an affect. In a type 1 superconductor, pure elemental, Rhodium (Rh) has a crystal lattice of FCC and needs to be the coldest of all materials (that I found). Lead (Pb) is the warmest of the type 1 and has the same lattice.
Type 2 are mixtures of elements and have the same lattice structure at the extremes, but one of the keys seems to be the availablilty valence electrons (or lack there of) to create cooper pairs, electrons paired up, that move through the material with no resistance. The main definition of superconductors, from my radiologic physics book, is the critical temperature, T (subsccript c), that the material exibits no resistance. Or when Ohms law no longer applies. That, IMO, is the main thing that can be used.

The only problem I have with such high temp superconductors is that this will give the aliens perpetual motion technology. With no resistence in the material, or extremely minimal resistance, the current through the material would last for years by itself. I would think the aliens, being as advanced that they are would just build an EMP weapon with the high temp SCs to wipe a good chunk of the eletrical systems around the world. The Heat Sinks is the way to go.

Other information I got from Here.

#45 Cartesian

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Posted 18 December 2003 - 04:28 PM

high temperatures are cool, but it depend on what you define as high. high temp superconductors are still well below 0C to my knowledge. Maybe the aliens can push that up past 273K. Maybe 1000K. but....

When dealing with plasma, high temp means hot enough to strip electrons off anything thats around. It seems likely that the same would happen to the superconductor. It would therefoore exceed its critical temp, and lose its superconductivity, rendering the reason we picked it in the first place irrelevant.

#46 Anglachel

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Posted 18 December 2003 - 04:50 PM

The highest is 138 K or something like that using ambient pressure, for humans. I am talking high temp as in plasma that the aliens could have. I could see the aliens having a new type of SC, type 3 or 4, which could push it up to those temputures. I am one of those that think it could be pushed to room tempertures. It could deal with the material it is made of more than anything else. The aliens would be able to use a weightless environment to manufacture products, maybe they could control the molecular structure of how things are put together....who knows?

I don't think we should limit things based on human technology and research because there is so much more we don't know of how things work. Maybe the aliens could have anti-matter technology and have a material that can hold anti-matter, which there is none known to use today.

That site I posted looked like it had some interesting stuff on abnormal SC research.

Edited by Anglachel, 18 December 2003 - 04:54 PM.


#47 Cartesian

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Posted 20 February 2004 - 07:10 AM

"I spent the last half hour of that trying to firgure out all the stuff frm the plasma weapons thread.. I was confused too.."- Danny, age 11


OK dokey, we aren't doing a good enough job explaining whats going on, or else we are going too far with pointless technicalities. We won't be able to explain everything to an 11 yr old since at least a 15yr old knowledge of science will be needed to understand words like electric/magnetic/electron etc, but we should be able to make it vaguely understandable to a large audience, inclusing those with non-technical backgrounds.

So, lets design the plasma weapon from the ground up, and then fit a CTD around that where we don't include anymore details in the CTD than we have in the design document. This design docuemtn shouldnt necessarily be understandable by everyone, but the final CTD should be fairly clear.

I suspect we will have to go through all the technical ctds in this manner... :(

Plasma: Very hot matter. So hot that its electrons have decoupled from the nuclei, resulting in a highly charged form of matter which is influenced greatly by the presence of electric and magnetic fields.

Idea of gun: Bring matter into plasma state by some process, either internal to the gun, or tha ammo. Plasma is contained inside barrel by magnetic fields. Plasma is forcefully ejected from rifle by electric/magnetic fields.

-->There are two ideas that have been nominated for operation of rifle and ammo:

The flamethrower idea, where two 'liquids' are combined to form the plasma. One liquid is water, the other is a xenium derivative which 'ignites' and heats the water. The resultant plasma is squirted out in 'bursts'.

The gun idea, where a solid lump of metal conatins a small amount of xenium which 'ignites' and heats the metal (this combination is a bullet). The bullet then leaves the plasma rifle, fully igniting shortly after exiting the barrel.

Idea of effect on target: Massive amounts of heat is dumped into target. This will combust/melt affected material, effectively destroying it.

I don't think we should inlude anything about heat sinks/ specifics of orientations of fields etc as they will only confuse the issue and don't add much if any value.

So Danny, 'roughly' how understandable was that?

Edited by Cartesian, 20 February 2004 - 07:29 AM.


#48 Danny252

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Posted 21 February 2004 - 10:06 AM

Firstly, I annoy my science teacher as I explain the earths magnetic field ect. to my v. confused friends, and I read scince books for 20 year olds..

I managed to understand that perfectly.

I don't think we should inlude anything about heat sinks/ specifics of orientations of fields etc as they will only confuse the issue and don't add much if any value.


True, those were the REALLY confusing parts. My science teacher would probably go 'huh?' at that too.. Are you some sort of NASA scientist or what? :)
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#49 Breunor

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Posted 21 February 2004 - 12:43 PM

Due to the extended time of development and range of people/ideas here, I expected at some point we'd have to come back to earlier texts and edit to get things in line with each other. A good point is made by Cartesian, I think too much detail can be as bad or worse than too little, as the player will try to fill in the blanks if they want. Every text will be different, depending on what it's based on. For the general 'plasma weapons' entry, we should focus on what new technology was understood to allow upgrading the weapons. The extent of the explanation is always going to be a point of debate. It's nice to include lots of cool stuff, but the more you have the more you have to account for in related texts.

I used to be a computer teacher for the blind, and would sometimes be teaching a person who had never had sight, had never encountered a computer beofre, and had no clue what anything was. To the point of explaining what a keyboard was, why you need it, and how to use it. So I had to learn to put aside all the things I knew, and look at it from the perspective of the learner. That should happen here as well. We should ask people who have little or no knowledge of this material to read the text and see if it makes any sense. I'm talking about your mom or girlfriend or somebody who doesn't watch Star Trek 3 times a day, etc.

IMO we should try to properly explain the text to that audience, as well as make it fun for ourselves.

#50 Cpt. Boxershorts

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Posted 21 February 2004 - 12:56 PM

There are people who don't watch Star Trek 3x a day? Blasphemy! ^_^

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