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#1 Jesus Escariut

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 11:31 AM

okay here is a article from http://www.zzz.com.ru/53.html , i remembered reading posts about antimatter in our forums but we always had the problem of how to contain it and what keeps it from killing every one and how do we make it and ... yea anyway read this (also check out www.zzz.com.ru these guys are awesome)

For decades, astronomers have contemplated the possibilities of deep-space exploration. However, for any human to survive the length of a deep-space mission, the spacecraft today would have to be made much, much faster. There have been many theories as to how this could be done, the most promising of which is the use of antimatter.

Antimatter is exactly what the name implies. It is the same as normal matter ó only the protons and electrons are oppositely charged. When matter and antimatter interact, they annihilate each other, converting all their matter into energy (or, in other words, it makes a large explosion.) Antimatter is produced in high-energy particle accelerators, which slam particles into solid targets. It is carefully stored in containers, known as Penning traps, which use a combination of a magnetic field, helium and liquid nitrogen to safely store the substance.

A single gram of antihydrogen would contain as much energy as 23 Space Shuttle External Tanks. That means it would be 10 billion times more efficient than the current oxygen-hydrogen combustion used in Space Shuttles today.

The problem with antimatter is the cost. It is the most expensive substance on Earth, costing $62.5 trillion per gram. The reason for the extreme cost is the massive amounts of energy that the particle accelerators require. Also, the accelerators can only produce 10 billionths of a gram per year.

Due to the cost of antimatter, scientists doubt the possible use of a pure antimatter reaction engine. Instead, a hybrid of fission and fusion is most likely to be used in future spacecraft. Anti-hydrogen could be used to store the anti-protons needed for the reaction. With the proton-anti-proton reaction, about two thirds of the mass that goes into the reaction comes out as charged particles. The most popular theory of how to use this is called Antimatter-Induced Microfusion. This involves channeling the charged particles through a magnetic exhaust nozzle. A pellet of deuterium-tritium and uranium 238 is liquified and injected into an antiproton plasma chamber. The uranium absorbs the antiprotons and fissions to compress the remainder, the deuterium-tritium, to fusion conditions. Then the charged particles become the rocket exhaust. Antimatter drives will, theoretically, enable astronauts to perform a complete Mars mission, spending one month on the Martian surface, in as little as four months. With increased antimatter production, it could also mean interstellar travel to Alpha Centauri, the Oort cloud, and other relatively close stars.

I canít see antimatter drives making any true progress in the next couple decades, because there simply isnít enough antimatter. There are many plans to increase production, but this will still take time. I think antimatter spacecraft will definitely be put to use within 50 years, which is about how much time it takes NASA to plan missions, so I guess it works out just fine. Only time will tell.



#2 mikker

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 12:35 PM

WOAH! :blink: We already HAVE anti-matter?????????

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 01:03 PM

What did u think Cold Fusion was about? It was deemed impossible to create ne thing useful, pretty much as said above. The amount we can produce is so little, and at such a high running price, that u actually use more electricity trying to get the atoms to fuse together ( which I think creates an anit-matter, not too sure tho ) that it was pointless.

#4 j'ordos

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 02:24 PM

Fusion does not create antimatter, AFAIK. Although it may depend on the type of fusion, but the Sun for example fuses two H-atoms to one He-atom, and He is NOT antimatter.

I think it is created in particle accelerators, the larger the better. But storing that antimatter for longer than a split second is something else.
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#5 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 02:27 PM

Really? Whats the difference btween fusion and anti-matter conversion? I thought they were the same thing, both involve throwing particles at each other so they fuse together don't they?

#6 j'ordos

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 02:30 PM

No. Fusion is the combination of two particles into a new one, creating antimatter is reversing the charge of the protons/electrons. E.g., an H-atom has one positive proton and one negative electron, while an anti-H atom has one positive electron and one negative proton.
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#7 stewart

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 02:58 PM

. . . and cold fusion was something else entirely, and it was shown to not work. Too bad we'd be in a different world today.

As for antimatter we've had it for decades as a matter of fact.
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#8 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 03:18 PM

. . . and cold fusion was something else entirely, and it was shown to not work.  Too bad we'd be in a different world today.

As for antimatter we've had it for decades as a matter of fact.

Really? I saw something about some sort of research lab that was being built to research fusion power. It will be done in 2008 I think. (Saw all of this on a documentary on the history channel.) Or maby I am thinking of a different kind of fusion. Cold fusion is fusion at room temperature right?

Also, while we do have antimatter however we don't have very much of it. IIRC something like 10 nanograms or something.
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#9 j'ordos

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 03:22 PM

Well, we both have antimatter and fusion working... in laboratory conditions -_-
Practical applications still are years away from now.
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#10 Aosar

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 03:26 PM

What makes anti-matter so intresting is the fact that - depending on what kind of research data scientist collect about it - it has the potential to prove wrong some major fysical theories like Einstein's theory of relativity!

one positive electron and one negative proton


One positron and one anti-proton to be exact...
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#11 Fred the Goat

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 11:38 AM

Yeah, now if we could only move these fantastic technologies out of the particle-accelerator-stage. Cool stuff, though.

#12 warhamster

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Posted 04 August 2003 - 04:11 PM

Wow... How do we incorporate this into game play? Thinking about it, if we could use antimatter tech in practical applications, we'd almost be as hi-tech as the aliens. Maybe the aliens should be the one who've managed to use this.

#13 j'ordos

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Posted 04 August 2003 - 04:14 PM

Maybe that's what their blaster bombs are: anti-matter.
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#14 Jesus Escariut

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Posted 05 August 2003 - 11:55 AM

Maybe that's what their blaster bombs are: anti-matter.

i like that idea, it makes sense and would do a better job of explaining the blaster bombs instead of how xcom did it with, "they make u hurt real bad"

#15 miceless

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Posted 05 August 2003 - 12:12 PM

Should they not be Elerium based? I suppose you could have an Elerium / antimatter combination.
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#16 mikker

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Posted 05 August 2003 - 12:31 PM

elerium could be the reason that the anti-matter even work.

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#17 samblake

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 07:27 AM

elerium could be the reason that the anti-matter even work.


I thought that was how it worked in the origional? Maybe that was just the assumption I made. If is wasn't how then it definatly should be in this game.

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#18 Jesus Escariut

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 09:39 AM

how bout this, since elerium is known for its ability to alter gravitional fields, wouldnt it make sense that elerium was the key to containing antimatter? so maybe elerium isnt what was used to make the antimatter it could still be somthing abundent like... hydrogen, but it was used to contain it/house it.. maybe even create antimatter more efficently, perhaps elerium driven particle accelrators? :blink:

#19 miceless

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 10:24 AM

All entirely possible I suppose. Elerium has to be incorporated somehow, as you needed it in the original to make blasters.
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#20 Jesus Escariut

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 12:50 PM

i think this can also answer the firing of antimatter question, it could travel from a slow speed and gain inertia if elerium was in it, since elerium can effect the magnetic field, this way the antimatter is not prematurly detonated from the force of the launch

#21 j'ordos

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 01:54 PM

The Blaster Bomb consists of an extremely dense Anti-matter core, contained in the gravity field of an outer Elerium layer, preventing premature detonation of the anti-matter. Or something along that line.
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#22 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 02:13 PM

Nah, it definatly has something 2 do with fusion, coz u get the Fusion Defences and Fusion Ball thing, and as somewhere above says Fusion and Anti-Matter are different.

#23 Aosar

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 02:58 PM

Hey, Elerium = stable anti-matter! :o

Aren't I the smart one?..

If Elerium affects gravity, it can - theoretically - be the "exotic" matter needed to make travelable wormholes...
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#24 j'ordos

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 03:06 PM

AFAIK antimatter is stable. It's just the contact with matter that's causing problems.

Edit: well, in case of a bomb that's not a problem ^_^ , but storing it when it's surrounded with matter is

Edited by j'ordos, 06 August 2003 - 03:07 PM.

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#25 Aosar

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 03:09 PM

AFAIK antimatter is stable. It's just the contact with matter that's causing problems.


Dunno, didn't read the article fully... Some link to antimatter would be good though...
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#26 Jesus Escariut

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 03:21 PM

It is carefully stored in containers, known as Penning traps, which use a combination of a magnetic field, helium and liquid nitrogen to safely store the substance.

#27 warhamster

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Posted 09 August 2003 - 01:32 AM

Ow... I think I'm having a brain cramp.

#28 Kexpakki

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Posted 10 August 2003 - 07:08 AM

Fusion is pretty much two atoms coming together creating so much heat that scientist were unable to contain it because it meltet everything they tried to put it in.
thats why there trying to invent cold fusion because of the loads of power fusion creates

#29 Fred the Goat

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 11:12 AM

Fusion is pretty much two atoms coming together creating so much heat that scientist were unable to contain it because it meltet everything they tried to put it in.


Not exactly the problem - the big problem was that, sure, fusion works...in the SUN. And sure, we could make fusion work, and all we have to do is create a MINIATURE SUN. Well, how the heck do we do that on Earth? So we need an energy shortcut, some way to get fusion to go without heating it up to the temperature of the FRICKIN SUN.

Antimatter elerium - interesting idea. We'd have to explain how it's still element 115, if we wanted to keep that, and we'd have to edit a whole lot of creative text, but theoretically that would work, especially if we say elerium is stable in the presence of matter, precisely because it creates all those gravity fields and magnetic fields and such, somehow matter can interact with it without blowing it up, UNLESS you do X, X being whatever is done in a blaster bomb to make it go off.

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#30 Jesus Escariut

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 11:21 AM

Not exactly the problem - the big problem was that, sure, fusion works...in the SUN. And sure, we could make fusion work, and all we have to do is create a MINIATURE SUN. Well, how the heck do we do that on Earth? So we need an energy shortcut, some way to get fusion to go without heating it up to the temperature of the FRICKIN SUN.

Antimatter elerium - interesting idea. We'd have to explain how it's still element 115, if we wanted to keep that, and we'd have to edit a whole lot of creative text, but theoretically that would work, especially if we say elerium is stable in the presence of matter, precisely because it creates all those gravity fields and magnetic fields and such, somehow matter can interact with it without blowing it up, UNLESS you do X, X being whatever is done in a blaster bomb to make it go off.


YES! finally some one that can explain it, thank you fredrico, you have done what my small brain failed at... perhaps the catalyst could be forcing the gravity A on to its self, like a black hole almost, but it just makes an explosion

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 12:41 PM

Fusion is pretty much two atoms coming together creating so much heat that scientist were unable to contain it because it meltet everything they tried to put it in.
thats why there trying to invent cold fusion because of the loads of power fusion creates

Not quite. Cold fusion was a theory that was disproved. It was theoried that u could fuse 2 atoms 2gether in a way that the Sun doesn't use.

The Sun fuses Hydrogen ( I think ) atmos 2gether because it is so hot, and it is so hot because it fuses atoms 2gether. Thats the chain, a sun dies when it doesn't have anything left 2 fuse, which takes millions of years. It then explodes and, it is theorised, it creates a gravitational "hole" ( Guess what that is :))

They wanted 2 just speed the atoms up really fast and bang them into each other 2 fuse them. They now think it is impossible ( but they thought the Earth was flat and that the atom was the smallest thing in the universe, so go figure :P

#32 Jesus Escariut

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 12:59 PM

*looks in his pants* well thats the smallest thing in the universe <_<

i thought cold fusion was the idea of fusion with out extreme heat, and they thought that particle accelerators slaming atoms could fuse with out heat, but discovered the heat caused the atoms to move about faster thus making the fussion possible... its been a long time since i was into fussion and fission *hunts for his books*

#33 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 01:13 PM

*looks in his pants* well thats the smallest thing in the universe  <_<

i thought cold fusion was the idea of fusion with out extreme heat, and they thought that particle accelerators slaming atoms could fuse with out heat, but discovered the heat caused the atoms to move about faster thus making the fussion possible... its been a long time since i was into fussion and fission *hunts for his books*

Well, that'd be pointless since they want the heat to produce energy. I'm pretty sure what I said is right, I remember it from science ( tho I have been pretty wasted since then, I wouldn't be surprised if I killed some brain cells in the 3 years I been out of school :)

#34 Jesus Escariut

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 01:55 PM

MIJ it seems we are both right... fussion was wanted for the heat, cold fussion was wanted for the ability to fuse atoms togther... thus they both served 2 diffrent purposes but worked on the same idea, of fusing atoms, or fussion. they just wanted one with out the nasty heat side effect

#35 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 02:01 PM

Ooh, MIJ, reminds me of my quake days, ahhhh...Had 2 change it after I realised it could be a bad thing 2 b called Mij when I'm 6'2, peeps could talk...

NE way, I didn't know that. What was the purpose of fusing the atoms then, if not 4 the heat. To produce other elements? ( I doubt that is even feasable, but I can't think of ne thing better :)

#36 Moriarty

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Posted 07 February 2004 - 11:11 AM

:wacko:

far as I know, it's like this: fusion is the art of smashing two atoms together so hard that the nuclei come into contact and stay together. as soon as two nucleic particles (that is, proton and neutron for normal matter) come close enough, the "strong force" (something like a very-short-range, ultra-strong force) kicks in and keeps them together, at the same time freeing lots of energy. think of magnets: bring them close enough, and they snap together, actually freeing energy (think of two objects suddenly moving on their own - you need energy for that, don't you?)

now you need a lot of energy to actually bring them that close together, because usually protons, being charged, repel each other.

in the sun, it's like this: lots of gravity and lots of heat (heat=high velocity of particles) smash protons (= Hydrogen nuclei) together. new nuclei are created, consisting of two protons (= Helium nuclei short of neutrons). new energy is freed, keeping the heat up.

[by the way: nuclear fission is exactly the opposite. you take stable nuclei, bombard them with neutrons, and they become unstable, because the "strong force" just doesn't succeed in keeping the nucleus together. the nucleus basically "explodes", freeing lots of energy and some high-velocity neutrons which smash into secondary nuclei...hence "chain reaction"]

this is all classical physics.

since xenocide, like xcom, is more like science fiction, I'd not keep too close to what's possible. I alwas liked an explanation like this: [Elerium] is an element that's actually not quite stable, perhaps even consisting of a mixed matter-antimatter-nucleus (which is not entirely impossible. modern physics have shown that the nucleus is actually structured in layers like an onion sometimes. there might be antiprotons in there, which are kept from interacting with the protons by strong, intra-nuclear magnetic forces...). All [Elerium] would need to be really cool is the property of reacting with other matter (or antimatter) into energy and [Elerium].

[Elerium] + matter --> unstable mass of particles --> [Elerium] + lots of energy

Something like a matter-to-energy-conversion catalyst. Have I lost everyone by now? good :D below you find the easy version.

:idea:
Okay, so my proposal: Elerium works by converting matter into energy. This energy is freed in different forms, depending on the matter used and the way it is applied: magnetic fields, gravity waves, maybe some heat, light, perhaps electricity and even sound...

Picture this: your engine is actually a low-class, easy-to-build particle accelerator shooting matter at an [Elerium]-target. it glows, hums, and pushes your vehicle in any direction you want, and also fuels your electrical appliances.

if you like this idea, please consider supporting it by pushing some of those who decide with their noses into this post ^_^
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#37 Robo Dojo 58

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Posted 07 February 2004 - 02:45 PM

Ahh... cold fusion.
Making an entire sun in a laboratory is not easy. Real fusion needs matter to be held inside powerful magnets, at very high pressures, (100,000+PSI) and very high temperatures(100,000+ degrees). Cold fusion is basically looking for a shortcut to get atoms to weld together. Cold fusion was the "get rich quick" scheme of making fusion so easy, that you could do it in your backyard. ^_^ I don't know how it exactly works, but as you could guess, it didn't.


I saw a TV show on how antimatter is made.

Basically, when heavy elements decay, they produce all sorts of stuff. With a special combination of elements, a particle accelerator, and luck, sometimes antimatter will come out. Today's particle accelerators slam combinations of particles together, to get the heavier elements. The large elements break down, sometimes giving off antimatter. The antimatter is caught in special magnetic boxes, and gets toyed around with.

Antimatter is EXPENSIVE to produce. A huge amount of energy is needed in a particle accelrator to get the atoms up to speed, and only small bits can be smashed at a time. The scientists don't always get the elements or isotopes that they need to make antimatter, so large amounts are wasted. The heavier elements also only have a rare chance of giving off antimatter during decay. That makes it even harder. Finally, only either the AM electrons or protons can be captured in a magnetic box, not both at the same time.(That problem may have been fixed, I dunno)
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My first order of business: Homeless people make cheap rookies, and are great at opening UFO doors. Heck, they're so cheap, I'm going to replace all personel with them!
Secondly: This organisation takes too much money to run. Weapon shipments will come from Siberia from now on. Costly maintenance is to be cut on all facilities. That includes venting.
Thirdly: We have a new colonel. His name is Facehugger, he loves aliens, and I want you all to treat him with respect.
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#38 centurion

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Posted 08 February 2004 - 01:48 AM

Actually, positrons are emitted almost routinely during fission, it's the antiprotons that are way exotic to get; AFAIK you just have to supply all the energy that is potentially in it to create them, which makes it completely useless as a power generating thing, though not as a weapon.
Cold fusion: at a time they tried the following idea: there is a particle called muon, almost the same as the electron, only much heavier and unstable. One could make hydrogen atoms with a muon instead of the electron, and since the muon is much heavier, the diameter of such a thing is much smaller, and so you have less distance at which this atoms repel each other. Last thing I heard, it could produce some 80% of energy put in it <_<

#39 Robo Dojo 58

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Posted 08 February 2004 - 08:32 AM

Last thing I heard, it could produce some 80% of energy put in it


I think they're up to 95%, and realizing that it can't ever make energy.
Posted Image Haha! I'm now the Supreme Commander of X-COM. Time to kiss Earth goodbye.

My first order of business: Homeless people make cheap rookies, and are great at opening UFO doors. Heck, they're so cheap, I'm going to replace all personel with them!
Secondly: This organisation takes too much money to run. Weapon shipments will come from Siberia from now on. Costly maintenance is to be cut on all facilities. That includes venting.
Thirdly: We have a new colonel. His name is Facehugger, he loves aliens, and I want you all to treat him with respect.
Lastly: I'll be in my condo on an undisclosed island, if you need me. Good day.

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#40 Moriarty

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Posted 08 February 2004 - 12:18 PM

I think they're up to 95%, and realizing that it can't ever make energy.


:huh?: wasn't there something that said you can never make energy? something like the first law of thermodynamics? whatever...

(sorry. no offense meant. I'm a notorious dictionary flamer)

anyway, the idea is probably not to make energy, but to very efficiently store it.
(Most science-fiction storys have something like fusion reactors, solar energy utilizers or whatever to get the energy from somewhere and then create antimatter with it to store the energy)

The best way to get lots of energy is still e=m*c*c, that is, converting matter directly into energy. Which is why I think that [Elerium] should be a conversion catalyst - or perhaps not a real catalyst, as it is supposed to be used up during the process. That way it could be at the same time a highly efficient fuel and something you need to create exotic forms of energy like gravity waves.

#41 Robo Dojo 58

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Posted 09 February 2004 - 06:42 AM

Whoops, my mistake. A muon fusion "generator" gives about 95% of the energy put into it. In other words, it'll never be useful in producing energy from fusion. They're getting real close to 100%, though! ^_^ (but will never pass it...)

That way it could be at the same time a highly efficient fuel and something you need to create exotic forms of energy like gravity waves.

Hmm... exotic energy. There's a theory, that antimatter and matter are regularly produced in pairs, in the middle of space. They usually cancel each other before anything interesting happens. What if a Xenium reactor could encourage this? It bends space somehow, causing lots of extra antimatter/matter pairs to appear. It then separates them from each other using gravity waves, and uses the antimatter as fuel?
Posted Image Haha! I'm now the Supreme Commander of X-COM. Time to kiss Earth goodbye.

My first order of business: Homeless people make cheap rookies, and are great at opening UFO doors. Heck, they're so cheap, I'm going to replace all personel with them!
Secondly: This organisation takes too much money to run. Weapon shipments will come from Siberia from now on. Costly maintenance is to be cut on all facilities. That includes venting.
Thirdly: We have a new colonel. His name is Facehugger, he loves aliens, and I want you all to treat him with respect.
Lastly: I'll be in my condo on an undisclosed island, if you need me. Good day.

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#42 Moriarty

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Posted 09 February 2004 - 02:28 PM

:hammer: but how do you get the energy to separate the matter from the antimatter? that still doesn't work. you need some way to get energy. and I hate to repeat myself, but the best way to get lots of energy is to convert matter into energy. which is what I think xenium does or should do.

#43 centurion

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Posted 09 February 2004 - 03:04 PM

In the Fusion Ball thread there was some discussion about the kind of things you're arguing about. One doesn't need to separate matter from antimatter (at least in the case of weapons/engines), since they would annihilate anyway and give you lots of radiation to use.

#44 kelfka

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Posted 09 February 2004 - 10:35 PM

I know that it cost a lot of energy to produce anti-mater.
But, do we know the percentage of effectiveness. Ex: 1 gram of anti-mater releases 80% of the energy it cost tu produce.
What kind of energy it releases? Is it just heat, a simple explosion, electromagnetic, a big jolt of electricity?
And instead of storing anti-mater, could we use it to produce even more anti-mater?
And what dose it leave behind afterwards? Radiation like nuke bombs, a micro black hole, or something else that is even more dagerous?

:huh?:


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#45 Robo Dojo 58

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Posted 10 February 2004 - 06:58 AM

Is it just heat, a simple explosion, electromagnetic, a big jolt of electricity?

Well, antimatter annihilation leaves no atoms behind, so heat is out. Electricity needs atoms, as well. An explosion is only heat interacting with surrounding material, so nope. I guess it would give off lots of Electromagnetic radaiaton. (EM means EVERYTHING, from radio, to visible light, to UV, X-Ray, Gamma.) The radiation then might produce alot of heat, and explode, but that's another thing entirely.

And instead of storing anti-mater, could we use it to produce even more anti-mater?

Well, we gotta have a little thermodynamics, right? :rolleyes: Nah, I don't think so.

percentage of effectiveness.Ex: 1 gram of anti-mater releases 80% of the energy it cost tu produce.

The cool thing about antimatter, is that it's alot of energy in a small package. That's a perfect combination for a spaceship. The antimatter that you use would most likely be produced at a factory somewhere, just like raw Hydrogen for fuel cells. Factorys don't need to fly or worry about not having enough energy.. They just take whatever energy they can, and make some antimatter. Antimatter is so powerful and useful, that it'd be worth spending a hundred times the energy needed to make it.

We can also assume, that the aliens already did everything needed to make [Elerium] as loaded with energy as possible. Let them worry about the power bills. :devillaugh:

Radiation like nuke bombs, a micro black hole, or something else that is even more dagerous

Radiation is caused by mutated atoms. Heck, it IS the mutated atoms. Antimatter annihilation doesn't try to break down atoms, or mutate them to produce alot of energy. The only radiation I'd be concerned about is gamma radiation,(which is EM) which does heck on organic things like us. It's gone as fast as it's made, though.

Micro black holes need to be as heavy as the sun before they become stable enough to do some damage.(heavier, actually.) The earth isn't as heavy as the sun. Mt. Everest isn't as heavy as the sun. 'Nuff said.

Something more dangerous... like ripping a hole into a hyperspace dimension? I've watched enough Babylon 5 to know that you don't rip holes in space-time when you're in an atmosphere. That's dangerous, and stupid. :)
Posted Image Haha! I'm now the Supreme Commander of X-COM. Time to kiss Earth goodbye.

My first order of business: Homeless people make cheap rookies, and are great at opening UFO doors. Heck, they're so cheap, I'm going to replace all personel with them!
Secondly: This organisation takes too much money to run. Weapon shipments will come from Siberia from now on. Costly maintenance is to be cut on all facilities. That includes venting.
Thirdly: We have a new colonel. His name is Facehugger, he loves aliens, and I want you all to treat him with respect.
Lastly: I'll be in my condo on an undisclosed island, if you need me. Good day.

FMIX-The General Stores

#46 centurion

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Posted 10 February 2004 - 09:06 AM

What's that with black holes having to be heavier than something to be _stable_ enough?

#47 tzuchan

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Posted 10 February 2004 - 10:09 AM

Perhaps not heavy enough, but dense enough...
if we can compact enough matter into a point where it starts giving off enough gravity to attract the surrounding atoms into the mass, I'd figure that we would have the beginnings of a blackhole...(Although it might take more mass that the earth has in order to create a 1 cm in diameter blackhole...)
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#48 kelfka

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Posted 10 February 2004 - 10:21 AM

Micro black holes need to be as heavy as the sun before they become stable enough to do some damage.(heavier, actually.) The earth isn't as heavy as the sun. Mt. Everest isn't as heavy as the sun. 'Nuff said.


Yes, but a chain reaction of enough anti-mater could create a micro but heavy enough black hole to start sucking air in and gain weight.

After all, curent black holes are created when a star explode.
But this happens over a large area, if the explosion is strong and concentrated enough it could create one.

Dose this make any sense? :wacko:

#49 Robo Dojo 58

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Posted 11 February 2004 - 07:28 AM

Black holes seem to have a wierd way of shrinking. Well, according to one theory, anyway. A good black hole needs enough mass to have enough gravity to stay a black hole, first of all. Then, it needs to feed on the flesh of living planets, or it's mass will go away somehow. I dunno, I haven't read up on the stuff, but it basically means that our sun will never be a stable black hole, no matter how hard you try.

Edited by Robo Dojo 58, 11 February 2004 - 07:29 AM.

Posted Image Haha! I'm now the Supreme Commander of X-COM. Time to kiss Earth goodbye.

My first order of business: Homeless people make cheap rookies, and are great at opening UFO doors. Heck, they're so cheap, I'm going to replace all personel with them!
Secondly: This organisation takes too much money to run. Weapon shipments will come from Siberia from now on. Costly maintenance is to be cut on all facilities. That includes venting.
Thirdly: We have a new colonel. His name is Facehugger, he loves aliens, and I want you all to treat him with respect.
Lastly: I'll be in my condo on an undisclosed island, if you need me. Good day.

FMIX-The General Stores

#50 Tuoppi

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Posted 14 February 2004 - 01:14 PM

Quantum physics say that black holes disappear VERY slowly... Mechanism links to virtual particles. A small black hole (mass of sun) takes thousands of times longer to disappear than universe has existed now. So black hole is not really stable no matter how big it is, but it takes so long to change it seems stable. Smaller it is, quicker the mass loss.

Gravitons are theorized to be actually miniature black holes...

Anyway, those are still theoretical and generally those theories get more dim the more you study them. Good base to sci-fi though. :wacko:

How about using some form of virtual particle energy generator in some gadget?