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Mechanized Aliens


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#1 Moonsorrow

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Posted 04 September 2003 - 07:06 PM

what freaked me out about xcom apocolypse was that all the aliens equipment was organic, including the ufo, shooting living guns and all...why not try the oposite for xenocide? here comes somekind of strange alien atacking you, they cut of his arm, replaced half his face and build explosives into him to make sure you would go down if you took him down, i guess what im trying to say is it would be cool to see the exact oposite of an organic alien squad comming at you blasting away.

#2 Vaaish

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Posted 04 September 2003 - 07:49 PM

we are the borg....

#3 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 05 September 2003 - 08:09 AM

I don't know, we already have floaters, and they are cyborgs. We have sectopods, and cyberdiscs too. Im not sure that combat robots would be good for the aliens. Maby we could have like a "floater mark II" ? That way, we can make a more cybernetic alien like you want, and make floaters more than pistol fodder.
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#4 mikker

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Posted 05 September 2003 - 09:18 AM

I don't know, we already have floaters, and they are cyborgs. We have sectopods, and cyberdiscs too. Im not sure that combat robots would be good for the aliens. Maby we could have like a "floater mark II" ? That way, we can make a more cybernetic alien like you want, and make floaters more than pistol fodder.

I like the flooter opgrade alot. It would come after Ethereal? Followed by Cyborg Reapers? :happybanana:

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#5 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 05 September 2003 - 09:55 AM

I was thinking that floater II's would come after snakemen and before mutons. I mean, you can only improve a floater so much before players start asking why the other aliens can't be augmented.
They would be better than snakemen, but nowhere as powerful as mutons, which is as it should be.
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#6 mikker

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Posted 05 September 2003 - 10:16 AM

the March II Flooters should be incribly fast, and float like March I...

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#7 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 05 September 2003 - 12:05 PM

Why would they be faster? Maby they should have a few more tus, but I was thinking they would get more health and armor. And you are right, they would float like floaters, otherwise they wouldn't be floater mark II's!
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#8 Moonsorrow

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Posted 05 September 2003 - 04:07 PM

Vaaish, how booring is that? the instant someone trys to mix a little metal with a little flesh you think borg.... do you altso think "take me to your leader" when you hear alien?

#9 fux0r666

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Posted 05 September 2003 - 05:36 PM

I'm going for a look that doesn't necessarily blend metal and flesh but where metal and flesh are indistinguishable from one another.. We'll see if I can pull it off without looking like I've ripped off a certain swiss surrealist...

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#10 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 05 September 2003 - 06:01 PM

u mean almost like a gradient from flesh 2 metal?

#11 fux0r666

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Posted 05 September 2003 - 07:40 PM

somewhere in between flesh and metal.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#12 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 05 September 2003 - 08:15 PM

Well, u got a little bit of a headstart there coz the Alien Alloy's have a layer of organic tissue grown over the top AFAIK.

#13 fux0r666

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Posted 05 September 2003 - 11:49 PM

I had no idea about that, I just saw in the style guide that the alien tech is supposed to be sleek and 'almost organic looking' and decided to take it a step further.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#14 warhamster

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Posted 09 September 2003 - 05:46 PM

But the aliens already do have implants here and there. And since most aliens are genetically manipulated already, ther is minimal need for cybernetic implants, right?

Anyway one of the entries gave me a mean idea. How about an alien that was created specifically to find your men, approach and explode. There was like that in apocaplypse, remember? It might be a useful side alien to the mutons.

Really, there's a floating sack flesh and it's about to spit on me. I'm shaking the joints of my power suit now.

#15 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 09 September 2003 - 06:11 PM

Those lil celatids were fun to use though. I control one, and he can take out mutons pretty well actually, iirc.

But I would hate a alien like the popper, those things were annoyance incarnate.
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#16 warhamster

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Posted 09 September 2003 - 06:15 PM

Well, I don't think the alien planned to be too friendly either when they sent out that chrysallid to do some kinky sh!t to your behind.

#17 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 09 September 2003 - 06:21 PM

Chryssalids were scary, poppers were just annoying.
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#18 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 09 September 2003 - 06:31 PM

An annoyance but u always had 2 be on the lookout for them, u never know when 1 might be hiding round a corner. However, unless we have have the CQB system of apoc going around small corridors ( which I personally didn't like ) u would see a popper comin from a mile off in turn based so they would be useless.

#19 warhamster

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Posted 09 September 2003 - 06:42 PM

Well, we could see a chrysallid coming in from a mile off. That didn't stop them from being effective either.

#20 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 09 September 2003 - 06:57 PM

Yeah, but chryssalids have a fair amount of health. Poppers have so little health that they die when hit with a rock. :D

Besides, chryssalids were effective because they could turn your men against you, poppers would not be effective because they can only explode. Granted that is a big explosion, but, there is nothing to worry about after you kill the popper. If the chryssalid molested anyone before you waxed him, then you have to worry. (why wouldn't the mutons toss a 'nade instead?) Anyway, I'm just biased against poppers, probably the pain of capturing one of the lil blue b^stards alive.
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#21 warhamster

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Posted 09 September 2003 - 07:07 PM

Well, we could make our version a thougher version. And like the cyberdisk, you can never capture one alive. You have to get info on it through alien medics.

I guess I'm just too much a fan of goblin sappers.

#22 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 09 September 2003 - 07:19 PM

I suppose that would work.
Actually, I did get a cyberdisk once, It took like 5 guys with stunrods and a couple of guys with small launchers, and even then, I had to shoot it a bit with a pistol, but I did get the lil bugger after 6 turns of constant attempt. :D
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#23 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 09 September 2003 - 07:32 PM

Yeah, but chryssalids have a fair amount of health. Poppers have so little health that they die when hit with a rock. :D

Besides, chryssalids were effective because they could turn your men against you, poppers would not be effective because they can only explode. Granted that is a big explosion, but, there is nothing to worry about after you kill the popper. If the chryssalid molested anyone before you waxed him, then you have to worry. (why wouldn't the mutons toss a 'nade instead?) Anyway, I'm just biased against poppers, probably the pain of capturing one of the lil blue b^stards alive.

U mean u actually tried :o

Yeah, I don't think Poppers would fit in here they are just a walking suicide bomb who are far more effective in real time, turn based they are so easy 2 kill.

#24 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 10 September 2003 - 12:57 PM

Well, I always play realtime, because to me apoc doesn't quite seem right in tb. :D

Besides, a suicide alien seems a bit too much like a suicide terrorist bomber to me... :(
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#25 fux0r666

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Posted 10 September 2003 - 02:42 PM

There's a line between living weapons and suicidal fanatics.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#26 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 10 September 2003 - 04:13 PM

How about suicidal living weapons? :D

At any rate, I must say that poppers were necesary in apoc, because, in the beginning of the game they were really the only guys who could hurt you. Until the anthropods get disruptor weapons that is.

Anyway, to get back on topic, I don't think there should be any new robotic aliens.
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#27 Vaaish

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Posted 10 September 2003 - 04:22 PM

Vaaish, how booring is that? the instant someone trys to mix a little metal with a little flesh you think borg.... do you altso think "take me to your leader" when you hear alien?

Well the borg ARE the quintisential melding of random metal extrusions with humanoid races. I guess we could also remember Quake 2, or possibly even some arcane aspect of Star Wars and AVP...

Quite frankly I don't think hackjob combinations of clunky robotics and aliens very frightening. It seems to fall more in the pity category since the recipiants the modifications tend not to really fall in the category of true biological beings or automatons.

Much more frightening is the enemy who sends heartless, cold, metal creations that have no regard for either their own losses or the lives of noncoms. And then what brings about hte fear is the cold calculation and total inhumanity of the machines.

#28 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 10 September 2003 - 04:42 PM

The head and face are also the best way of displaying a frightening alien, along with speed and agility far beyond anything seen before. In films the two biggest, and scariest looking IMO, are Predator and Alien, simply because when you look at them you see no humanity in that.

The Terminator metallic skeleton has the same effect, so I'd say that a mix between looking totally inhuman and cold, hard metal have a good effect. Incidently, altho the Alien films creatures actually didn't have metal bodies their exoskeleton has that metallic effect so a lot can be said for the success of metal merging with skin.

Terminator 1 looked pretty damn scary for the time as well when he had all that metal protruding from under the broken skin, tho I was about 6 when I watched it so maybe it was just the times :)

#29 fux0r666

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Posted 10 September 2003 - 07:33 PM

Mr. Vaaish, you just decribed my concept for the muton perfectly. I'm glad to see at least someone is on my page, even if the exact shape this should take is up in the air.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#30 j'ordos

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Posted 11 September 2003 - 04:09 AM

The most terrifying enemy is the one you can't see coming...

This suggests a logical course of action: the invisible or cloaked alien should be incorporated ^_^

Edited by j'ordos, 11 September 2003 - 04:10 AM.

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#31 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 11 September 2003 - 12:56 PM

How excactly would you balance an invisible alien?

Hmm, It would have to have melee only, hmm, it still shows up on the screen, but there is no 1box like normal when an alien is sighted, it would be clear, to make it harder to see for the player... Hmm... Might be a good idea :D.

Also, Imo cyborg races are pathetic, Look at the floaters. Or even the borg, they aren't that tough. Cyborgs probably shouldn't be kept (except the floater, because hes classic... :) )
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#32 j'ordos

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Posted 11 September 2003 - 12:59 PM

How excactly would you balance an invisible alien?

Motion Detector. Suddenly you'll want to research and manufacture that ASAP :D

I was just kidding though ^_^
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#33 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 11 September 2003 - 02:02 PM

Also, Imo cyborg races are pathetic, Look at the floaters. Or even the borg, they aren't that tough. Cyborgs probably shouldn't be kept (except the floater, because hes classic... :) )

Go tell that to Terminator :D

#34 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 11 September 2003 - 02:26 PM

I never thought of the terminator as a cyborg. I always thought of him as a advanced robot wearing a human suit. (Complete with bodily functions :D)
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#35 fux0r666

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Posted 11 September 2003 - 03:26 PM

In the movie Reese described him as a cybernetic organism. I'm not sure exactly what that means, but I think that the machine underneathe the skin sustains the flesh outside of it. I doubt there is any sort of heart or lungs or a curculatory system or nervous system that would be required to grow the skin and sustain it... it that the skin itself has machine parts encorperated into it to keep it alive.

Either way it's a machine/organic interface, even if the primary component is the machine and not the flesh as is normally associated with cybernetic organisms. Is that enough to classify it as a cyborg? Was the kid in D.A.R.Y.L. a cyborg? It was a machine brain that controlled the flesh around it. They called those sorts of entities something different in that old game called Star Control... I think they were called something like Psytrons or something.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#36 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 11 September 2003 - 03:45 PM

It depends on the definition of Cyborg but AFAIK the Terminator was a cyborg, living tissue was sustained by blood as in the film there was blood when he sliced his eye out IIRC, which at the very least would indicate a metallic heart. The definition of Cyborg would have to be investigated to find that out. Robocop was a cyborg and I wouldn't want him kicking my arse much either :)

#37 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 11 September 2003 - 07:24 PM

Robocop had a human brain inside him. It was a cop's I believe.

In my mind, to be a cyborg, you have to have an organic brain, or be more than 70% organic.

Terminator had living tissue grafted onto his chassis. I would assume that his computer brain handled the tissue's maintence. :D
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#38 fux0r666

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Posted 11 September 2003 - 07:37 PM

Yeah, if robocop was a cyborg than the Terminator and DARYL were reverse cyborgs. Heh... Unless cybernetic organism just implies organic-machine interface.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


Posted Image

#39 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 11 September 2003 - 07:40 PM

Hmm, I always assumed a cybernetic organism was a robot. :D
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#40 fux0r666

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Posted 11 September 2003 - 07:42 PM

Cyborg and cybernetic organism are the same things, in case anyone in here doesn't know.

CYBORG
CYBernetic ORGanism.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


Posted Image

#41 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 11 September 2003 - 07:45 PM

I suppose you are right.

Anyway, I feel that combat robots would detract from the game. Now a muton in powered armor minus the helmet would look pretty damn good and make mutons even harder to kill ;)
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#42 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 11 September 2003 - 07:57 PM

Robocop was a cyborg as well, he was a man that had machine parts. That is what is being suggested AFAIK, metal flowing into flesh parts which if done right can look damn freaky. I think Fux's design is a start towards that end

#43 Extralucas

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Posted 15 September 2003 - 08:36 AM

I suppose you are right.

Anyway, I feel that combat robots would detract from the game. Now a muton in powered armor minus the helmet would look pretty damn good and make mutons even harder to kill ;)

So maybe only armors than new alien races. Say, floater in armor which gives him more TUs, more health, and... Armor :P. Same thing could be used for sectoids, snakemans, mentioned earlier mutons...

If CYBORG=CYBernetic ORGanism then many aliens are CYBORGS already, tho.
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#44 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 15 September 2003 - 08:41 AM

True, Most of our aliens already have cybernetic implants. Like reapers, celatids, sillicoids, mutons, etc.

I really like the idea of armoring aliens, it would make them harder to kill, and it would still stay realtively true to the original. I mean, xcom can make armor, why can't the aliens? Maby only ranked aliens should be able to use armor though.
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#45 Extralucas

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Posted 15 September 2003 - 09:01 AM

Why should they tho? Who's doing most fighting around? Slodiers or this one commander guy sitting in the base guarded by many of those soldiers. I guess high ranked aliens should have armor which unablies capturing 'em. Just like arsenic poison hidden in a tooth ;)
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#46 Breunor

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Posted 15 September 2003 - 09:24 AM

Having armor upgrades through cyborg implants would be a good way to keep it tough in the later game. You could set a time frame when armor starts to be used, like 1 year. When it begins, 25% of aliens, minimum 1, have armor in sites, and increases by 15-25% each month until they all do. It would take the aliens time to convert it all after all. I would lean towards armored aliens or minor implants over a full robocop/terminator type chassis, and for units already robotic like the sectopod, you could have a more glorified version, a little extra flair to make it noticably different. Just imagine: "oh no! It's a sectoid! Bring up the heavy plasma, let's hope it can take out that Grey!"

#47 Extralucas

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Posted 15 September 2003 - 09:48 AM

Having armor upgrades through cyborg implants would be a good way to keep it tough in the later game. You could set a time frame when armor starts to be used, like 1 year. When it begins, 25% of aliens, minimum 1, have armor in sites, and increases by 15-25% each month until they all do. It would take the aliens time to convert it all after all. I would lean towards armored aliens or minor implants over a full robocop/terminator type chassis, and for units already robotic like the sectopod, you could have a more glorified version, a little extra flair to make it noticably different. Just imagine: "oh no! It's a sectoid! Bring up the heavy plasma, let's hope it can take out that Grey!"

I guess that should depend on things like difficulty level and alien bases count (they can be factories too).
I'm not back. I'm just dropping by.

#48 fux0r666

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Posted 15 September 2003 - 12:22 PM

Well, my vision would be a robocop chasis in a manner of speaking, but not in essence. What I'm going for with the heavily butchered races (such as the muton) is a fully fleshy individual with the relevent bits replaced with technology that is not flesh and is not machine but both at once. The relevent bits on the muton would be anything that helps it survive in hostile environments or combat situations, ie. Sensory organs, lungs, skin.

The best way I can describe the look of the parts on that concept that noone like as looking 'too robotic' would be a microscopic polimer mesh. It would give the appearance of a malible(sic) (ie. Bendy and elastic) plastic. After all that I would make something up about its properties like it reacts to jumps in kinetic energy by forming chemical matrices that harden the armor and absorb energy for as long as the energy spike is present. It would also function as a sensory organ and would communicate the the muton's CNS... blah blah blah.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#49 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 01:04 AM

so with the blended-in-ness of some of Gigers designs, but make the artificial parts more artificial then Giger, but less than the Borg?

#50 fux0r666

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 01:21 AM

Yeah. Way less surreal.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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