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#1 76.IAP-Blackbird

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Posted 07 November 2005 - 03:42 PM

Wiesel.jpg
Wiesel2.jpg

Hi I'm new in this comunity and want to introduce myself.
I'm 21 years old life now in germany and want to support the project as a 3D model maker.. :D

Now I have modeled some tanks as low poly models and want to post here 2 or 3 screens. The only question I have is, is this way I modeled it right or can we use some more detail?

The 20mm Wiesel has

Verts 854
Edges 1760
Faces 984

The Ozelot has

Verts 734
Edges1479
Faces 833

I now the limitation for the models is between 1500 and 2000 faces but is this ok?
Its in beta status only need some textures.

Edited by 76.IAP-Blackbird, 07 November 2005 - 03:47 PM.


#2 Vaaish

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Posted 07 November 2005 - 03:55 PM

no, your models need to be as close to the max as possible or the will look very out of place with the rest of the artwork.

do you have examples of higher poly models and textures?

#3 Guest_Azrael_*

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Posted 07 November 2005 - 03:57 PM

This does not go into the Laboratories, moved.

#4 Puasonen

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Posted 08 November 2005 - 10:16 AM

This does not go into the Laboratories, moved.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He will not find this thread anymore :D
There's no need for a sig..

#5 Guest_Azrael_*

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Posted 08 November 2005 - 10:44 AM

This does not go into the Laboratories, moved.

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He will not find this thread anymore :D

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I am assuming he knows how to use "View New Posts" :) besides from PMing with Vaaish.

#6 Blehm 98

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Posted 08 November 2005 - 12:05 PM

i didn't ever use view new posts until i'd been a member here for 6-8 months
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#7 fux0r666

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Posted 08 November 2005 - 04:41 PM

It would be best if someone pm'd him with the url of this thread- if he hasn't been in and thought it was deleted already. I would take offence to that.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#8 fux0r666

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Posted 08 November 2005 - 04:45 PM

He has been contacted and such. :)

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#9 76.IAP-Blackbird

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Posted 09 November 2005 - 01:44 PM

Hi, no prob I found it. The thing is, that I wanted some reply if the models are ok or not and than why they aren't. Now the prob is solved. I can make them with more details, thats good.

The next thing is, I work with alias Wavefront maya, it seems that it's easier to model the stuff than in Max. Do you have special people who work on skins or is it up to the modeler?

The Xm8 is from Operation Flashpoint

xm8_4.jpg
Weapons1.jpg
Xm38SniperA1.jpg

These weapons I've done last night, and now again ist this the stuff you need. Is this the right quality?

#10 Vaaish

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Posted 09 November 2005 - 02:02 PM

yup that looks good to me, much better than your previous post.

the modeler can skin if he wants but the model needs to be skinned in MAX so we don't lose anything in conversion.

#11 76.IAP-Blackbird

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Posted 09 November 2005 - 02:08 PM

Is it ok when I converd only the models in Maya and send it to you later?
So someone can skin them in MAX.

Should I model further on this weapons? What about an upgrade aspect later in the Game, when you discover a new technologie and upgrade your weapons.
Like a plasma grenadelauncher where you can swich betweet a big shot and i.e. five weaker shots? So we can model the weapons as kits wich can be changed...

Just an idea.. ;)

#12 Guest_Azrael_*

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Posted 10 November 2005 - 03:07 PM

About new weapons, we are not introducing any weapon that was not present in X-Com 1, at least not for Version 1, discussion for new weapons and such takes place in the Laboratories.
You should ask Vaaish what weapons need work :)

#13 red knight

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Posted 10 November 2005 - 08:08 PM

Or check it by yourself ;) ...

http://svn.projectxe..... Progress.xls

That is guaranteed to be the latest :) it is under source control, so you are getting the exact thing that Vaaish has in his computer.

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#14 NN4N

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 04:12 AM

hey guys,

I know this thread is quite old, but I'd like to say somethin too :P I'm also a 3d modeler and I'd like to join xenocide. I've already applied at Vaaish, so that's not the issue.

I just wanna show you guys my recently created models and hear your opinion about it (I used to model everything in NURBS, these are my first 2 polygonal models).

Pistol: unskinned and basic procedural mapped (634 faces)
gun.jpg

Rifle: unskinned and basic procedural mapped (1065 faces)
rifle3.jpg

Would like to hear some comments :) thnx

NN4N

#15 Guest_Azrael_*

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 06:05 PM

They look very nice :) with a little more work and bit more detail, those would be real good stuff =b

#16 red knight

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Posted 27 May 2006 - 06:30 PM

Try to do some architecture like, houses, fences, and that stuff to use in battlescape. That way you can polish your low poly skills.

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#17 borus

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Posted 02 July 2006 - 10:10 AM

Hi all the readers,

Belive it or not this is my first reply in any forum ROFL .

Now to the busines im not a 3D modeler, I saw that ur looking for a script writer to help u with the web page i know some PHP (with some knowledge of MySQL) and quiet alot of html and javascript.

Ill be fan of Xcom probably for a life time if my memory wont leave me :D , and realy need something constructive to do with PHP and all the rest to train and so.

So if ur interested let me know and i come from Slovenia that is +1 timezone haha, ill be happy to help and do something usefull with the GHz.

Sorry for posting in wrong thread but there wasnt any for my tipe of reply and i hope here is where ull noticed it first :).

Greetings.

#18 Spyder

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 01:07 PM

Hello everyone!
I have been lurking around in the Xenocide forum for a while now and finally decided to register. I am a great x-com fan (athough I did not play the sequels after TFTD) and really appreciate the work you guys do. I myself have been the main 3d modeller of a non-commercial game project for quite a while (klick signature to find out more). I love my work at that project and would never give it up, but sometimes I would like to do something different from the fantasy-style models I do for it.
I recognized that it has been a bit quiet in this forum for a while. I know that keeping the fans updated is your not main priority, but I'm sure you guys are still working hard. My question is: are there still models to be done for Xenocide? I looked at some lists I found in your Wiki, but it does not seem to be up to date. I will not find the time to be a "full-time-modeller" for Xenocide, but I surely could make a model now and then.
Keep the good work up!
All the best,
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#19 kafros

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 01:41 PM

http://svn.projectxe...ork Department/

You could check the Xenocide Art Progress excel sheet, I think it's the most up-to-date document concerning the AWD. The X-Caps are ready though

Basically, just check the first link provided which is the AWD svn link, you can see what's in there, and don't forget to check the gallery for screens.

I think the best place to start would be the various facilities (they need skinning), the UFOs, the soldier armors, items/equipment (i.e. try the flashpod, the motion sensor and the med-kit) and the UFO rooms. You can find their descriptions in the CTD folder of the SVN.

Tell me what you think, and best of luck!

Edited by kafros, 05 December 2007 - 01:41 PM.


#20 Spyder

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 04:10 PM

Thanks kafros for the quick reply!
I think I will go for an UFO, I guess its a good thing to start with. I will also do the texturing, usually I paint all the textures myself, but I will have a look at your library first.
4000 polys for a craft... thats not easy. But its so cool that I can use Bumpmapping (which I can't at Ultima IX Redemption) :D
I've got a lot to do at the moment, I think I'll start next week.

One last thing: (Sorry if its a stupid question) the art guide says "X-net models: 10 000 polys"... what do you mean with "X-net models"?
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#21 Zombie

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 04:30 PM

The X-Net models are the pics found in the UFOPaedia articles. :)

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#22 red knight

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 03:31 PM

Sorry, that information is old Spyder, by the way we should start reconsidering those requirements as stated there from the graphics viewpoint.

Aim to what it is necessary to achieve good looking models (without throwing polys just for the sake of but for now we wont care about it), if that means that you are modelling in things like ZBrush 3.0 or something like that that can bake bump mapping, then you can just do both.

Bake in the bump mapping and specular mapping and use the polygon reductions utilities in those softwares that every day that pass gets better but keep the high poly model in the repository too. Today a videocard can throw a million of fully shaded polygons provided we do the stuff that it is required to support that... so dont worry as probably those numbers will be off 6 months to 12 months from now.

BTW with current modelling packages it is even easier to do high poly than low poly... so we will move to low poly from there if we really need to.

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#23 Spyder

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Posted 10 December 2007 - 06:14 PM

I played around a bit: here are some screenies of my version on an intimidator. The textures are just a test since I have to solve some importing/exporting problems. Furthermore the model has a lot of polys.

Attached Thumbnails

  • screen1.jpg
  • screen2.jpg
  • screen3.jpg
  • screen4.jpg
  • screen5.jpg

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#24 kafros

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Posted 10 December 2007 - 07:44 PM

I think it's very nice for a first try, continue to please us :D
Have you found the link with some standard textures that you can use (for example the Alien Composites one?)

If you need something just ask :)

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Posted 10 December 2007 - 09:13 PM

I think it's very nice for a first try, continue to please us :D
Have you found the link with some standard textures that you can use (for example the Alien Composites one?)

If you need something just ask :)

For a first try? that's an excellent model even for a 5th or 10th try :P

Yeah, slap some standard Alien Composites texture and it'll be completely awesome ^_^

#26 Spyder

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Posted 11 December 2007 - 02:49 AM

If you need something just ask :)


I remember a quite huge number of textures I flipped through a few weeks ago, but I can't find it anymore :( I think it was in the wiki. It would be really nice if you could post a link. Thanks :)

BTW: just recognised that the lighting of my screenshots ist really bad, sorry for that.
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#27 kafros

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Posted 11 December 2007 - 08:13 AM

http://www.projectxe.../assetlist.html

Enjoy :D (keep in mind it's old, but it's still a useful resource)

Hmmm just looked for the UFO texture link and I also couldn't find it, weird, I'll look again later and tell you :)

#28 Spyder

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Posted 11 December 2007 - 02:11 PM

Hmmm just looked for the UFO texture link and I also couldn't find it, weird, I'll look again later and tell you :)

That would be nice, thanks.
The model has 80.000 polys at the moment. I can reduce it to 20.000 without loosing much detail. Is further reduction necessary?
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#29 kafros

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Posted 11 December 2007 - 06:18 PM

I don't think it's necessary at all right now, I think that new/more content is much more preferred ;)

I think you should speak to Vaaish, Darkhomb or j'ordos, they are the most active ART members right now (as far as I know)

Edited by kafros, 11 December 2007 - 06:20 PM.


#30 Spyder

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Posted 27 December 2007 - 04:06 AM

Ah, before I forget: I have not posted the model yet. Here is the ZIP file. I think it will be better if someone else does the texturing who knows the project's style better than I do.

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#31 red knight

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Posted 27 December 2007 - 07:50 AM

Excelent, someone with access to the SVN add it into the assets repository.

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#32 Guest_Azrael Strife_*

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Posted 27 December 2007 - 05:55 PM

There are not a whole lot of us with SVN access, may you add it, RK?

#33 red knight

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Posted 28 December 2007 - 07:46 AM

I am not at home if I where there I wouldnt ask ;) ... I do not have the SVN downloaded in my fathers computer and download it at this connection rate would be like 15 hours more or less. In my home it takes like 20 minutes.

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#34 Darkhomb

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Posted 30 December 2007 - 03:23 PM

Ah, before I forget: I have not posted the model yet. Here is the ZIP file. I think it will be better if someone else does the texturing who knows the project's style better than I do.



I took a look at your model, very nice, I cannot really critique it, Vaaish would have to do that. However feel free to texture it if you would like, Art is not really active right now, so we don't have anyone to texture.

#35 Kratos

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Posted 31 December 2007 - 04:09 AM

I decided to give a whack at the proxy grenade with Blender.

proxy.jpg

I'm not familiar with Xenocide, or any 3D game development. Not familiar with "polygons", but out of assumption, it's the face count on the model? I'll give you both the vertex and face count since I'm not familiar. Vertex is 1090, and faces are 1120. As for texturing, I'm using Blender's in-built texturing, which is probably quite different from what you are wanting.
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#36 Darkhomb

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Posted 31 December 2007 - 12:31 PM

It looks nice, the model currently is great for xnet but way to many polys for in game. a vertex is basically a 3d dot, connect them together and you have an edge. A third dot completes them as a triangle or the polygon. (there are also 4 sides polygons too). So faces is what you want to look at.

If you take a look at the frag gernade (it is in blend too so easy to open) you will see it isn't really round so it drops the polys alot.

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  • final.jpg

Edited by Darkhomb, 31 December 2007 - 12:35 PM.


#37 Kratos

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Posted 31 December 2007 - 01:36 PM

I know what a vertex and edge are, but the term "polygon" just wasn't familiar with me. :) Thanks for the clarification.

Ok, so you need two versions, a low and high polygon version, correct? And what is the difference between X-Net and the game? I thought X-Net was part of the game? I'll try to lower the polygons then. Btw, what are the standards for the game vs. X-Net (polygon limits?). I also noticed you have .3ds files, so would you prefer those file types or what other file types? There's still a lot I don't know about Xenocide, so if you can introduce me with some background information, that would be great!

Let's see, I lowered the proxy to 544 polygons without losing shape. Is that low enough?

proxylow.jpg

Edited by Kratos, 31 December 2007 - 02:30 PM.

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#38 Darkhomb

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Posted 31 December 2007 - 03:11 PM

That should be low enough for now, As a grenade it really doesn't need to be that curved as it's going to be seen from far away on screen.

Also while Xnet is in game (ufopedia) it is only displaying one model at a time, so we have plenty of resources. However during a mission you have to take in account of terrain, chars, weapons and other items it becomes alot so we need to lower polygon count. Also we don't use 3ds anymore. since we are using xna we need to either have .x or .fbx. Think blend can export to both, however if you make a 3ds that would be fine I can convert from that.

Heres the break down.

Models are under the following poly limits:
In game character models: 2000 polys
In game environmental models: 500-1000 polys
In game weapons models: 500 polys
In game craft models: 4000 polys
X-net models: 10,000 polys
High-res models: no limit

Also here is the art wiki, talks about models textures etc

http://docs.projectx....php/Art:Guides

Edited by Darkhomb, 31 December 2007 - 03:15 PM.


#39 Kratos

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Posted 31 December 2007 - 03:48 PM

I'm not sure what distance has to do with curves. Maybe I'm not understanding what you are trying to tell me. If you want, maybe you can tweak it yourself.

Here's the proxy grenade's files. It contains .blend and .x files of both high and low polygon versions

Attached Files


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#40 Darkhomb

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Posted 31 December 2007 - 05:12 PM

All I am saying is that its going to be very small on screen so it doesnt need alot of detail. The 500 poly is fine for now. Do you have the texture? it should be png. 256x256 should do.

#41 Kratos

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Posted 31 December 2007 - 05:16 PM

I'm using in-built Blender textures. AFAIK, Blender exporting it's own textures is impossible.
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#42 Darkhomb

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 03:06 PM

Thanks, Seem to have problems importing it in 3d Studio Max, but I am going to try some other things. Hopfully I can preserve it and replicate your texture.

Edited by Darkhomb, 02 January 2008 - 03:06 PM.


#43 red knight

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 04:35 PM

Models are under the following poly limits:
In game character models: 2000 polys
In game environmental models: 500-1000 polys
In game weapons models: 500 polys
In game craft models: 4000 polys
X-net models: 10,000 polys
High-res models: no limit


That break down is old, we must revisit it... for now on make everything High-Res even using ZBrush if you feel like to have HIGHLY Detailed models. Current methods for normal map bakeing works pretty good (that includes simplification). -- Reference: NVidia Melody

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#44 Darkhomb

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 04:47 PM

I was about to question that earlier as its been 3-4 years now.

#45 red knight

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 04:51 PM

We have been modifying everywhere where it sais that. A solution may be to flag the source as inacurate and document it in the docs site. :) You are free to go ;)

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#46 Kratos

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 06:31 PM

Models are under the following poly limits:
In game character models: 2000 polys
In game environmental models: 500-1000 polys
In game weapons models: 500 polys
In game craft models: 4000 polys
X-net models: 10,000 polys
High-res models: no limit


That break down is old, we must revisit it... for now on make everything High-Res even using ZBrush if you feel like to have HIGHLY Detailed models. Current methods for normal map bakeing works pretty good (that includes simplification). -- Reference: NVidia Melody

Greetings
Red Knight

Whatever you feel your standards should be. I'm not exactly fond of low polygon models, but the idea of keeping unnecessarily high polygon models isn't a bad one. Although, keep in mind, while the average user may have a high standard quality computer, there is always those that could use the lee way. What I am trying to say is, don't make an "unlimited" polygon limit, but perhaps increase it to a new standard. If a model can be "lowered" without losing much detail, then you might as well save the user's computer resources.
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#47 Mad

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Posted 03 January 2008 - 03:29 AM

Well I guess the best solution for all this would be to have a quality setting that also has an influence on the polygon count in the models. Thinking about the fact that I am not able to run Xenocide on my Pentium M Notebook (1.6 GHz) with its GeForce 5200 (and this is not what you would call "a really old PC we don't need to think about") I would really suggest not to raise the "minimum settings" poly count any higher than it is in the old specs.
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#48 Guest_Azrael Strife_*

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Posted 03 January 2008 - 06:34 AM

Models are under the following poly limits:
In game character models: 2000 polys
In game environmental models: 500-1000 polys
In game weapons models: 500 polys
In game craft models: 4000 polys
X-net models: 10,000 polys
High-res models: no limit


That break down is old, we must revisit it... for now on make everything High-Res even using ZBrush if you feel like to have HIGHLY Detailed models. Current methods for normal map bakeing works pretty good (that includes simplification). -- Reference: NVidia Melody

Greetings
Red Knight

Whatever you feel your standards should be. I'm not exactly fond of low polygon models, but the idea of keeping unnecessarily high polygon models isn't a bad one. Although, keep in mind, while the average user may have a high standard quality computer, there is always those that could use the lee way. What I am trying to say is, don't make an "unlimited" polygon limit, but perhaps increase it to a new standard. If a model can be "lowered" without losing much detail, then you might as well save the user's computer resources.

Well, the inclusion of XNA into the equation has pretty much decided that to even run PX you already need a high standard quality computer..

#49 red knight

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Posted 03 January 2008 - 10:16 AM

In graphics terms there are generations of difference between a DirectX9.0a (GeforceFX 5200) a DirectX9.0c (Geforce 6xxx and 7xxx) and the Direct10 (Geforce 8800). And I am not speaking specifically on the graphics raw power, mostly about what it is posible with waaaayyy less work.

It is a question of productivity not a question of graphics detail what we are answering here... High Poly is more scalable than low poly, mainly because low poly get outdated (like the frag granade) while High Poly can be automatically downgraded with far less manual work using LOD (Level of Detail) tools. With High Poly you can derive the normal map directly from the geometry (NVidia Melody), you can paint over the surface if you use something like ZBrush, and the list continue... I wont go up in requirements without a clear winning and currently what we are on is improving productivity. XNA was a response to code being unwildly and finding difficult to get new developers that really know C++ (something that only a small circle of people use in the industry right now... for instance I hadnt touch a C++ line of code at work in like 4 years already, and I havent found myself regretting it either).

At the time of definition of this we didnt know a lot of things, graphics algorithms werent such advanced as today and tools that implemented them (the advanced ones) werent publically available; so going low poly was the most reasonable approach. Today doing it is just a waste of effort. In fact, with what I know now, if I would have started Xenocide knowing I would have insisted more (to the point of forcing it to be) in high poly from the ground up 5 years ago. That decision was politically made and not technically wise to do not let anyone behind, but that had deep implications in our way of working and make the things worse instead of better as technology changes at a pace that we cannot bear with... Just remember the state of the art when Xenocide was started; and see how much water passed down the bridge.

Greetings
Red Knight
Sourceforge Nick: flois - Federico Andres Lois
Visit my blog at: flois.blogspot.com

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#50 dteviot

dteviot

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Posted 03 January 2008 - 05:58 PM

Just remember the state of the art when Xenocide was started; and see how much water passed down the bridge.

Greetings
Red Knight

I didn't think technology has moved that far in the last 12 months.
Saving the world from the scum of the universe is hard work. Especially when you have to create the scum to begin with.



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