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Poll: What should be included in region funding 'resolver'

What should be included in region funding 'resolver'

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#1 Beetle

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Posted 08 January 2006 - 08:25 PM

Hi all

I want to starting coding financial part of political regions. I think that making the nation decides only by player score isn't very accurate and want to make it little more sophisticated. I'm thinking about quite simple (maybe fuzzy, but it's not important now) function taking few arguments from last month history, maybe scalling them and compare with values stored in xml file.

So here is first poll about that scalling part, please think a little and anserw here :) If you think that these values should somehow (not matter how) influence at nations choice, say yes. If your anserw for something is : "Yes, but only a little" please select no, don't wan't to have to many not really nessesary varibles.

My anserw is yes for area and no for population, becouse:
- since on mission will not die to many people (i think we could count them in tens) it's not really imortent that becouse of alien attack will die less people during one month then in road accidnets :), but even thou newspapers will say (terrible death of 10 people in alien terror atack ! )
- about are region i think yes, becouse it will help us to make regions, we will don't have to very accurate place regions. Region size will be also calulated automaticly so it will not border us when we will be balancing values. Of course it will not be used in all type of 'accidents'.

edit: typo

Edited by Beetle, 08 January 2006 - 08:26 PM.

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#2 Garo

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Posted 08 January 2006 - 10:53 PM

Just to note, rincewind is planning to continue his work with georegion stuf

14:54 < rincewind1010> sounds good, once we got scriting working again (note: ie: the dagonsquirrel branch merged back to head), I will start to tackle the georegion stuff (countries, etc)


And yes, Beetle, we DO read the logs.

00:07 < Beetle> i wonder if they are reading logs :)


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#3 rincewind

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Posted 09 January 2006 - 03:31 AM

And yes, Beetle, we DO read the logs.

00:07 < Beetle> i wonder if they are reading logs :)


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Hey, where do I find the irc-logs?
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#4 Beetle

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Posted 09 January 2006 - 04:21 AM

14:54 < rincewind1010> sounds good, once we got scriting working again (note: ie: the dagonsquirrel branch merged back to head), I will start to tackle the georegion stuff (countries, etc)


Upps didn't know that, even thou poll is still active, let Rincewind know what we are thinking about funidng :) :D

And yes, Beetle, we DO read the logs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Great, good to know it ;)
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#5 Mad

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Posted 09 January 2006 - 04:27 AM

Wouldn't it be the best to let the countries decide based on their per capita gross national product? So this would involve some serious work, but maybe one could "extrapolate" a gross national product based on todays values and always changing a bit due to a random multiplikator? Then populaton size would be kind of useful. I don't understand the benefit of using country size, so I didn't vote for now... :)
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#6 Garo

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Posted 09 January 2006 - 05:09 AM

Hey, where do I find the irc-logs?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


We don't have public logs currently anywhere. Most irc clients allow you to log
conversations into logfiles, but that works only when you are online and connected.
Incase we need, I can publish my own logs from #xenocide.

Currently we have talkes 6500 lines in #xenocide, which is worth of 400k logfile. Total size of my log repository is over 650MB :D

- Garo

#7 Beetle

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Posted 09 January 2006 - 10:56 AM

Mad: i was thinking that it would be usefull for such varibles as ufo hervest missions or terror sites. For example very large country will be not so upset of 1 hervest mission then very small one.

About " per capita gross national product", yes this is indeed very good option, but also very "work consuming" and maybe hard to balnce, we will have to put manually 2 scale factors (population and national product) for every political region.
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#8 dteviot

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Posted 09 January 2006 - 12:18 PM

Hey, where do I find the irc-logs?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


We don't have public logs currently anywhere. Most irc clients allow you to log
conversations into logfiles, but that works only when you are online and connected.
Incase we need, I can publish my own logs from #xenocide.

Currently we have talkes 6500 lines in #xenocide, which is worth of 400k logfile. Total size of my log repository is over 650MB :D

- Garo

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As I don't have IRC, I would very much like to get my hands on copies of the IRC log files.

Thanks,
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#9 guyver6

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Posted 09 January 2006 - 12:35 PM

I vote both. Rationale:
- there's something like UFO Activity that means: number of abductions, number of experiments etc. this includes alien bases and things that XCorp isn't aware of, because we're not informed about all UFO activities
- due to abductions, harvests, experiments and goverment infiltration there are lots more people affected than those killed during terrors

I would actually add to this list total UFO activity in region and how XCorp acted to lower that activity.
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#10 dteviot

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Posted 09 January 2006 - 01:00 PM

About " per capita gross national product", yes this is indeed very good option, but also very "work consuming" and maybe hard to balnce

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think so. Stewart has already 95% of the work. Just consult his spreadsheet.
Unfortunately, I can't find the link to the spreadsheet. :( Can someone supply?
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#11 red knight

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Posted 09 January 2006 - 01:04 PM

I agree with Guyver, but as a first implementation do it in such a way that UFO activity can be transformed directly into an score value.

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#12 Garo

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Posted 09 January 2006 - 01:08 PM

As I don't have IRC, I would very much like to get my hands on copies of the IRC log files.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Maybe you should get IRC then :)

Anyway, I copied the log here: http://lysosomi.juho...ho/xenocide.log
It's not updated and it only contains what we have talked so far. I can try to implement some sort of always updated log page later.

- Garo

#13 dteviot

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Posted 09 January 2006 - 08:24 PM

As I don't have IRC, I would very much like to get my hands on copies of the IRC log files.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Maybe you should get IRC then :)

Anyway, I copied the log here: http://lysosomi.juho...ho/xenocide.log
It's not updated and it only contains what we have talked so far. I can try to implement some sort of always updated log page later.

- Garo

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks.
Saving the world from the scum of the universe is hard work. Especially when you have to create the scum to begin with.

#14 Guest_Azrael_*

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Posted 09 January 2006 - 08:27 PM

As I don't have IRC, I would very much like to get my hands on copies of the IRC log files.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Maybe you should get IRC then :)

Anyway, I copied the log here: http://lysosomi.juho...ho/xenocide.log
It's not updated and it only contains what we have talked so far. I can try to implement some sort of always updated log page later.

- Garo

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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#15 dteviot

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 03:46 AM

Hi all

I want to starting coding financial part of political regions. I think that making the nation decides only by player score isn't very accurate and want to make it little more sophisticated. I'm thinking about quite simple (maybe fuzzy, but it's not important now) function taking few arguments from last month history, maybe scalling them and compare with values stored in xml file.

So here is first poll about that scalling part, please think a little and anserw here :) If you think that these values should somehow (not matter how) influence at nations choice, say yes. If your anserw for something is : "Yes, but only a little" please select no, don't wan't to have to many not really nessesary varibles.

My anserw is yes for area and no for population, becouse:
- since on mission will not die to many people (i think we could count them in tens) it's not really imortent that becouse of alien attack will die less people during one month then in road accidnets :), but even thou newspapers will say (terrible death of 10 people in alien terror atack ! )
- about are region i think yes, becouse it will help us to make regions, we will don't have to very accurate place regions. Region size will be also calulated automaticly so it will not border us when we will be balancing values. Of course it will not be used in all type of 'accidents'.

edit: typo

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I’ve been thinking a bit more about your question, “Should the initial funding available from a region be based on the size of the region, or the population?” And come to the conclusion: There is no need to answer that question at this point in time. We can assume that there WILL be a base funding amount, and assign an attribute in the XML to hold the value, but we don’t need to figure out the actual value. Reasoning:
(1) Any value that is chosen will need to be adjusted to ensure game balance.
(2) So, determining the value (or even how the value is calculated) really needs to wait until the game is working.
(3) If you really do want values calculated, this is not the best use of a developer’s time. Ask for a volunteer from the CTD team. (That’s how I got the necessary values for the items.xml table.)
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#16 mikker

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 11:57 AM

I don't think we should limit ourselves to a certain factor. Voted neither.

Instead, we should find out a more balancing way, so that no area will get any particular advantage over the other. Except the poles, of course.

So south africa, US, russia australia and china would be big moneyhogs due to their geografical location - and size too, but that's not what's important.

As long as it turns out balanced, I don't care how it's made. But I think manual input would be the easiest.

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#17 Mad

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 01:01 PM

Instead, we should find out a more balancing way, so that no area will get any particular advantage over the other. Except the poles, of course.

So south africa, US, russia australia and china would be big moneyhogs due to their geografical location - and size too, but that's not what's important.

As long as it turns out balanced, I don't care how it's made. But I think manual input would be the easiest.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The thing is: Do we really want to balance it that way? I mean, earth is an unbalanced place. So, yes, there will be regions which get more protection due to their funding abilities. So what. That's the way life works. *ducks away*
Buuut: Maybe we could balance it in another way. Like lowering base costs and/or maintenance in the low funding regions. Or give other boni.
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And no, this is not a quote from the Simpson's movie, I want it on paper, that I actually wrote that quite some time before the movie came out.

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#18 mikker

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 01:18 PM

Hmm... Yes. That should work. Low repair/bukld/fuel cost should do the trick nicely.

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#19 dteviot

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 01:33 PM

I don't think we should limit ourselves to a certain factor. Voted neither.

Instead, we should find out a more balancing way, so that no area will get any particular advantage over the other. Except the poles, of course.

So south africa, US, russia australia and china would be big moneyhogs due to their geografical location - and size too, but that's not what's important.

As long as it turns out balanced, I don't care how it's made. But I think manual input would be the easiest.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In real life, I'd expect to get little, if any funding from USA. I'd expect their attitude to be "We will get better service doing the job ourselves. We don't want our money being spent on others."
Saving the world from the scum of the universe is hard work. Especially when you have to create the scum to begin with.

#20 Guest_Azrael_*

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 02:17 PM

I don't think we should limit ourselves to a certain factor. Voted neither.

Instead, we should find out a more balancing way, so that no area will get any particular advantage over the other. Except the poles, of course.

So south africa, US, russia australia and china would be big moneyhogs due to their geografical location - and size too, but that's not what's important.

As long as it turns out balanced, I don't care how it's made. But I think manual input would be the easiest.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In real life, I'd expect to get little, if any funding from USA. I'd expect their attitude to be "We will get better service doing the job ourselves. We don't want our money being spent on others."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have to agree.

#21 Mad

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 03:51 PM

In real life, I'd expect to get little, if any funding from USA. I'd expect their attitude to be "We will get better service doing the job ourselves.  We don't want our money being spent on others."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think that's a feature we already discussed some day, IIRC. So some big countrys don't support you in the beginning but come crawling back on their knees after some months depending on the "alien situation". But this is surely v1+ - although I really would like to have sth. like this.. :)

---Edit---
damaged quoting... <_<

Edited by Mad, 10 January 2006 - 03:52 PM.

Keep smiling while dying

Of course I have gone mad with power! It would be completely ridiculous to go mad without power!
And no, this is not a quote from the Simpson's movie, I want it on paper, that I actually wrote that quite some time before the movie came out.

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