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#1 Guest_Azrael_*

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Posted 28 May 2006 - 07:59 PM

I understand that RK was supposed to cover for ATeX as Sound Lead, but is this really happening? I know RK is busy so I wouldn't blame him if he hadn't had the time to perform as Sound Lead, but I think this should be remedied, Crispy has just posted if there was any activity in here at all, meaning that no one has bothered contacting him and guiding him about his track / other tracks, I myself think that Planetview song is complete and someone (with the proper authority) should tell Crispy and Mr_S to move on to other songs, they being our only sound artist we should try to maintain them, not let them get bored of not being guided, we're wasting good potential here, if you've listened to their tracks, you'll know what I mean.
I'm afraid this is something that's happening in other areas of Xenocide, but I've already complained about it in the past to little result, so no point bringing it up again. I think we're bringing the frozen death upon ourselves on our own.
I strongly suggest that someone with more time availability is appointed as temporary sound lead, at least to provide *some* degree of guidance to our sound people, I don't think it's in our best interest to lose them, as I feel has already happened with many other good people.

#2 kafros

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Posted 29 May 2006 - 05:52 AM

I think that RK has already given them some tasks, for example to make a complete list of needed sounds, and something else which I don't remember right now.

They can't (shouldn't) really get bored, as they already have a lot of work to do and probably don't know it yet. They haven't even posted any progress on the tasks above...!

In addition, any recruit or member can talk to any senior (or even other members) and ask for advice of information.

Frozen death... Frozen death happens when only guests login. There are many active members in the forums, onlt our progress has slowed down significantly.

#3 Guest_Azrael_*

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Posted 29 May 2006 - 07:03 AM

I think that RK has already given them some tasks, for example to make a complete list of needed sounds, and something else which I don't remember right now.

They can't (shouldn't) really get bored, as they already have a lot of work to do and probably don't know it yet. They haven't even posted any progress on the tasks above...!

In addition, any recruit or member can talk to any senior (or even other members) and ask for advice of information.

Frozen death... Frozen death happens when only guests login. There are many active members in the forums, onlt our progress has slowed down significantly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Many active members who aren't really doing anything, you can take me for instance, I login everyday, that doesn't mean I'm working, I got no time, but I still login.
Anyway, just giving them a list is not precisely guiding them.

#4 Mad

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Posted 29 May 2006 - 09:43 AM

I got no time, but I still login.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, I think that is exactly the point: no time. Most of us have to prepare for exams right now, so we can't work too much. I wouldn't call this frozen death. More like cyrogenic slumber...
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#5 red knight

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Posted 29 May 2006 - 03:27 PM

To lead you have to know where you are going... to know how to create a list of what assets are needed is part of become prepared to handle the load a Senior require. I do not give out those tasks to be taken lightly, I just expect the prominent members (those that will be taken in account) to shine by themselves not only because their capacity to create high quality stuff but to be able to handle efficiently boring tasks that you have to do anyways, to fill in the gaps in the unknown, etc...

I do not like most of the stuff I do everyday, but I do it because my goal is to finish Xenocide; not matter what it takes or how much time it takes me to do so... Even if I have to do it all by myself (that luckily isnt the case).

Moreover you cannot force anyone to handle the load a senior membership requires (I even get swamped myself, even if am a very organized person), so the ability to automotivate yourself to do stuff is sometimes more important than the output quality; mostly because you can fix quality iterating, but if you cannot automotivate yourself you are out in the dark..

I do make a lot of mistakes in my day, but I try to learn from them so I do not make them away... trying to force a senior is something I wont do again, period... I learned from my mistakes, seniors are born, not made... not anyone enjoys to do administrative stuff (I dont either), but I do have to acknowledge that I do get other challenges in the day to day that brings me closer to really enjoy it.

Other just simply like to (long list):

- Write music
- Write text
- Comment on others work, and be bystanders
- Improve upon others work, learning in the process and adding value.
- To organize.
- To keep trouble out of the rest of the people.
- To keep the workplace tidy
- Code new functionality
- Arquitecture new code
- Documenting code
- Keep the code healthy
- Making models
- Texturing models
- Create sound effects
- Improve others code
- etc...

But in the end the only thing that is left is that you have is a reason to do so and the joy of being part of something bigger than yourself; an experiment that in the end could prove that if it is posible to do "A HIGH QUALITY GAME" up to the current standards without a big budget, and more importantly free to be used by anyone. Something that by now has proven almost imposible for anyone that has tried.

I think everybody has the potential to do it, only that most people is leashed by their own self. I praise people that not only can start doing something but at the same time they start it, commit to it and even in failure learn from the process. In that light I am very impressed with Serge, because he has started UFO2000 and worked by itself leading the candle; until some more people has joined with him... to the point that we can really say that he has a heck of project in place.

I do unknowledge that the tecnology that we have selected for Xenocide is orders of magnitude more complex and by itself a moving target; but nonetheless the aim at the foundation of Xenocide was very distinct to the aim Serge had for UFO2000. Both projects got true to our aim and in the light of that I can say that Xenocide needs a lot more work to have something to show, but it is the developers and occasional contributors who do it; do not expect it to appear from thin air.

If I failed a hundred times I do not care to fail again... the point is that I will stand up and start the process all over again. So in the light of that I am not worried, cause I am working to fix what I think it is broken. Being frozen is stand still, I may move one step at a time but I am moving. How about you? I bet you wont either, and your post is a living reflex of it.

People, part of being alive is living, expressing your opinions... I tend to keep this questions private cause people is shy to express their opinions in the open, but I will open them up anyways...

What do you think it is broken?
What can you do to fix it?
How can you help other fixing it?

EDIT: Some typos, move this into somewhere readable by anyone.

Greetings
Red Knight

Edited by red knight, 29 May 2006 - 03:40 PM.

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#6 kafros

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Posted 30 May 2006 - 04:04 AM

I hope you didn't receive our posts as offensive. I'm sure we all want to aid this project as much as we can.

I think that there is only one thing "broken":
Recruits (and sometimes members like us) usually want to do important stuff and big stuff, or otherwise they don't really get motivated.

For example, I have given examinations for 4 of the total 6 lessons I have (today was Biology's turn :S). I miss the community and will definitely start working by the start of the next week. But, right now, the only thing I can do as a CTD member is to write the active CTs. Alas, there aren't any small (or even TRIVIAL) tasks I may do...

People can't make small contributions, as the available tasks need a lot of work!

I will love to have a lot of work, but the meaning of the above sentence is different: Either we make big steps, or stand still. We don't make small steps. Many small steps make a leap...

What's your opinion?

Edit1: Typos
Edit 2:

In addition, there's an issue we've already talked about, but I think it's worth mentioning once more.

31 March 2006  - Intimidator Models - Testarossa finished the concept art for the Intimidator UFO.

*31 march... Who would think we are alive?
*The site's template hasn't changed yet.
*Non-updated gallery
*Non-updated wiki
*etc

People need various small or medium-range tasks. In addition, could we implement an... let's call it "internal competition system"? Members try to complete something, and the winner is given some kind of kudos... More posts? Another star-image in his sig?

Edited by kafros, 30 May 2006 - 04:12 AM.


#7 Mad

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Posted 30 May 2006 - 04:57 AM

[...]
For example, I have given examinations for 4 of the total 6 lessons I have (today was Biology's turn :S). I miss the community and will definitely start working by the start of the next week. But, right now, the only thing I can do as a CTD member is to write the active CTs. Alas, there aren't any small (or even TRIVIAL) tasks I may do...
[...]
People can't make small contributions, as the available tasks need a lot of work!
*Non-updated wiki
[...]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I now can only speak for the CTD. Please don't take my post as offense, though it might be a bit explicit at some lines. (I know you can take it. ;) )
Kafros, I know you are - like most of the CTD right now in a lot of work. This is the reason why CTD isn't moving. there is no much sense in sending motivation PMs at the moment, because people are not just unmotivated. They lack time. But, if you want to do small tasks, there are a lot of these in CTD! For one, there are enough CTs that require your input. You are not meant to rewrite them, just to read them and post a few lines. Heck, if you don't have the time to review a whole CT, just make comments about one paragraph. If you are not satisfied with these, please write me a PM, and I have dozends of smaller tasks you could do. There is no lack of tasks. neither big nor small ones. There is lack of available manhours.
Wich leads me to the news/wiki issue. I haven't updated the webpage news, not the newsletter for two editions now. That is a problem. I know. But I just can't afford the time. I spend a lot of hours in the week to do administrative stuff, I can't spend even more time atm. I do have to prepare for one of the biggest exams I will have for the next years (there will be another big one next semester). And I'm pretty sure noone at PX has any benefit if I fail, because than I will have to invest even more time.
I have asked several members to help me with the news issue, and I have to give big thanks to Zombie for helping me. But atm it seems that noone is able to invest that much time.
As for the "competition"idea of yours, I think - but that's only me - contributing and seeing your own work beeing implemented in Xenocide should be reward enough. Then there is always the possibility to get mentioned in one of the news (newsletter/webpage), so we do have some kind of rewarding system. But I personally don't like the idea of competition. We set a high value in the fact, that we are all equal in this project. Seniors just have the burdon of organizing a lot of stuff. Implementing a competition system would thwart all this. At least this is how I see it.

Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm more then open for discussion on this.
Keep smiling while dying

Of course I have gone mad with power! It would be completely ridiculous to go mad without power!
And no, this is not a quote from the Simpson's movie, I want it on paper, that I actually wrote that quite some time before the movie came out.

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#8 red knight

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Posted 30 May 2006 - 08:38 AM

Kafros, first not at all... I didnt though that any of your posts are offensive; in fact I know that you share with me the motivation to finish the project. That is why I move this to an open forum instead of letting it in the Lounge. This discussions are always good, if they are not taken lightly.

On the other side, you are wrong... the smallest things are those that construct the greater masterpieces. The smallest things like a well timed post can create things beyond what we imagine. The smallest recognition for someone elses work, can do begin great things. The smallest contribution can allow others to follow your steps and guide them... Even the smallest change can have very unpredictable results.

And changing from that I will do the smallest thing posible, I will open up something to anyone that has been happening in the background but we couldnt been able to uncover because we wanted to have it finished... but as we couldnt finish it, I will ask for the smallest contribution of you to have it finished as soon as posible. You will know more in the next couple of days... so stay tuned.

Greeetings
Red Knight
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#9 Mad

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Posted 30 May 2006 - 09:58 AM

'k at least a few new news on the Webpage. PM me if I missed sth, or, in future, if you think sth. should be on the news. Thanks a lot. :)
Keep smiling while dying

Of course I have gone mad with power! It would be completely ridiculous to go mad without power!
And no, this is not a quote from the Simpson's movie, I want it on paper, that I actually wrote that quite some time before the movie came out.

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#10 Shinzon

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Posted 30 May 2006 - 11:53 AM

Things looking grim around here. I wish I could do more, but things are a little bit out of my controll right now...

Just letting you know im here, I login and I read...

#11 kafros

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Posted 30 May 2006 - 12:56 PM

Wonderful Mad! =b

I will take care of the newsletter once I finish with my examinations.
In addition, there are 4-5 CTs that need my creative caress... :wink1:

#12 Mad

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Posted 30 May 2006 - 02:18 PM

In addition, there are 4-5 CTs that need my creative caress... :wink1:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know I know. You asked for it, so I assigned them to you. :)
Keep smiling while dying

Of course I have gone mad with power! It would be completely ridiculous to go mad without power!
And no, this is not a quote from the Simpson's movie, I want it on paper, that I actually wrote that quite some time before the movie came out.

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#13 ATeX

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Posted 30 May 2006 - 02:59 PM

One small comment:

I do not give out those tasks to be taken lightly...


Be aware this is an open-source online project. You cannot demand anything from people except for their passion towards the same goal. However, I know you didn't mean it like that. Keep it up!

EDIT: Like Kafros said: people think it's dead already if they see the date of the latest news. Have you read my post in the Frozen topic? http://www.xcomufo.c...ndpost&p=154000


greets,

Thomas

Edited by ATeX, 30 May 2006 - 03:02 PM.


#14 red knight

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Posted 30 May 2006 - 04:18 PM

No I didnt, you give them out if someone takes them, then they shouldnt be taken lightly. I am passionated on what I do, as anyone else; if not they wouldnt be asking for work ;) in the first place :).

Greetings
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#15 sparaz

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Posted 31 May 2006 - 01:14 PM

Hello all, I am new here obviously. I have loved all the xcom's from since junior high in the early 90's. I am a hardware tech specialist and network admin, but I never really delved too deep in to programming, my mathmatical apptitude is lacking. I just wanted to say that I believe open source development is an amazing forum in so many ways and that what all you programmers do is amazing and truely appreciated. I yearn to involve myself in such projects, but my lack of programming prowess is my downfall (maybe there is hope for me in the future). After reading this discussion, I have to give my respect and thanks to all that keep projects like this alive. The passion you exhibit does not go unnoticed, although possibly at times it may go unappreciated by many. I hope to see this xenocide project come to fruition at the end, and if I can find SOME way to help I will gladly do so. Thank you again.

#16 shevegen

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 04:34 PM

Well there are many people watching and hoping that the game/project continues. The old UFO were one of the most fun things.

And time is always precious because indeed there are exams everywhere (well for me too) :)

Not everyone has the same workload though, so I think a big project will not halt to a grind, it will just move slower. And as long as it is moving, it doesnt matter how slow it is!

#17 red knight

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Posted 02 June 2006 - 08:34 AM

That is exactly the point, but not only moving... the importance is to grow (and not in size) but in knowledge... an matura project becames a wise project because people in them are not like children anymore. Open Source Projects exhibit a dynamic more complex than its enterprise counterparts, that is why they are even difficultier, but at the same time very rewarding.

Ok, enough chat already... I will get to work now :)

Greetings
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#18 revenant4

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Posted 15 June 2006 - 01:55 PM

Just wanted to say that I've been reading the forums for years now. I may not be as active on the boards as I used to but I have every bit of confidence in RK and his team.

You guys are doing great things and trying to resurrect a great game. I say take your time and enjoy the experience. I'll be one of the first to congradulate all for a job well done.

#19 dredknight

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Posted 16 June 2006 - 12:30 AM

just as sparaz i follow the development of the game though i am not active at the forums. if i can help with anything i`ll let you know :P

Edited by dredknight, 02 March 2007 - 11:55 AM.