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Spacecraft Cap?


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#1 Aiki-Knight

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Posted 08 March 2007 - 01:42 AM

Hi All,

I'm playing a really long game - I'm at 120,000 points - and I have 63 ships, including Hawks, a Biotrans, an Explorer, and a bunch of Retaliators and Annihilators. Anyone know what my maximum is?

#2 Steelion

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Posted 08 March 2007 - 07:37 AM

Wow. Do you really need that many?

I don't think there is a cap. Of course, I've never had nearly as many craft.
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#3 Aiki-Knight

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Posted 08 March 2007 - 04:14 PM

Wow. Do you really need that many?

I don't think there is a cap. Of course, I've never had nearly as many craft.


Of course, I don't need that many! It's just fun to pump out a massive fleet while I try to see just how high soldiers can improve before they hit absolute maximum, without the aid of editors. I take some teams in for general raids to see just how veteran they can get. The ships are an aside, but it *is* fun to launch a fleet-wide alert when the aliens pop in with two motherships and two battleships (this is REALLY late-game!), and see the sky darkened with annaihilators and retaliators, sweeping alien capital ships out of the sky like they were scouts or early ships.

If only we could have massive tactical maps with hundreds of aliens, perhaps in a proper shopping mall, and a really PROPER shoot-out with some serious alien terrorists, doing a terror mission the old-fashioned XCOM1 way! :-) Imagine XCOM agents wearing realistically colored (not comic-book) armor, and HWPs (like the good-old days). Hundreds of civilians fleeing for cover, with really tense shoot-outs amidst the chaos. THAT would be a mission.

Or imagine if the alien standing fleet could grow to 50 or 60 ships. Imagine emerging into the alien dimension with a like number of top-tier ships, and having a real brawl in the air, disruptor fire going absolutely *everywhere*. THERE would be another mission.

Anyone else know about the spacecraft cap?

#4 j'ordos

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Posted 09 March 2007 - 11:25 AM

I believe it's 71, at least that's the limit for vehicles/UFO's in the city, it doesn't seem to include UFO's (and Xcom craft?) in the alien dimension.
I don't think the xcom3 engine would be very suitable for huge battles, though it would sure be fun if it were possible :)

Edited by j'ordos, 09 March 2007 - 08:38 PM.

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#5 Sorrow

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Posted 09 March 2007 - 06:17 PM

Huge battles would be cool. Especially if they would implement air support. I'd love to see an Annihilator swooping over battlefield, razing entire buildings to the ground :D .

Edited by Sorrow, 09 March 2007 - 06:17 PM.


#6 Steelion

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Posted 10 March 2007 - 06:08 PM

Hmm. Using the multi-bombs would be fun- take out not one, but about 8 buildings!

Dang. Imagine if you could "bomb" with missiles- certain missiles would have different effects. Janitors/ prophets are more precise, with smaller blasts, retributions and disruptor bombs have powerful blast radii, and multibombs just hit multiple spots for moderate damage...

That would be fun.
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#7 Aiki-Knight

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Posted 17 March 2007 - 12:13 PM

Hmm. Using the multi-bombs would be fun- take out not one, but about 8 buildings!

Dang. Imagine if you could "bomb" with missiles- certain missiles would have different effects. Janitors/ prophets are more precise, with smaller blasts, retributions and disruptor bombs have powerful blast radii, and multibombs just hit multiple spots for moderate damage...

That would be fun.


Of course, using an Annihilator as close air suppose with such destructive weapons would highly increase the risk of friendly-fire deaths among XCOM agents. If the tactical map were much larger, then some air support could be done, I think, not to mention armour. I think the elimination of the HWP is one of the greatest losses in XCOM 3. There's also no reason why APCs and tanks couldn't be a part of XCOM's strategy, although I realize that special forces rarely use such vehicles. But when you're taking down a mothership, even special forces could benefit from having a couple of armored vehicles with their main weapons trained on the door, to take out megaspawns.

Having vehicles and variety is one of the things that made XCOM1 such a chess game, where strategy, not just in your movement, but how you deployed your units, made a difference. I for one used HWPs as point vehicles, to attract snipers and help figure out where aliens were, even though I lost a lot of HWPs. Wouldn't it be lovely to be able to develop new APCs, with disruptors, mounted dimension-missile launchers, and vehicle shields? But this would require a much larger map.

Of course, my hat goes off to the Gallop brothers who pioneered XCOM, and I don't criticize. Also, other games use APCs to some extent, air support, etc., but more from a RTS perspective. Imagine the platoon to company-sized tactics and strategies of modern warfare applied from the detailed XCOM perspective. Imagine how different each player's style might be! Consider the importance of snipers, anti-tank missiles, toxin, machine guns, armor, HWPs, a hawk decked out with ground-attack weapons, shields, take-down squads, the whole thing! Again, though, this is more a heavy-mechanized approach to warfare, not a special-forces one, which is what XCOM is all about.

I see the UFO:Aftermath franchise incorporates the idea of a regular army that can be dispatched to attempt to take down certain missions. That's a neat idea. You could have your special forces XCOM agents for some missions, a more conventional heavy-mechanized infantry for more set-piece battles and UFO clean-up when you're not trying to capture live aliens. Un-addressed crashed UFOs should lead to alien infiltration problems in the vicinity. The conventional infantry could also be trained and improve, but to a lesser extent. Well, it's all talk. But if XCOM is the core of what I consider to be the ultimate in tactical combat gaming and suspense, then all this would be massive icing on an already addictive cake.

Basically, bring back the HWPs and the real terror missions!

And if I'm making a short-list of fantasy wishes, :D
- flying disrupter armor
- larger battlefield
- tanks & APCs, upgradable
- trained medics so every soldier can't cure himself of fatal wounds
- trainable/improvable martial arts: strikes & Judo throws when skels/arths run right up to an agent
- cool power-sword-handling: slashes and thrusts, instead of cattle-prodding

Anyone care to comment?

#8 Sorrow

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Posted 17 March 2007 - 02:39 PM

Of course, using an Annihilator as close air suppose with such destructive weapons would highly increase the risk of friendly-fire deaths among XCOM agents. If the tactical map were much larger, then some air support could be done, I think, not to mention armour. I think the elimination of the HWP is one of the greatest losses in XCOM 3. There's also no reason why APCs and tanks couldn't be a part of XCOM's strategy, although I realize that special forces rarely use such vehicles. But when you're taking down a mothership, even special forces could benefit from having a couple of armored vehicles with their main weapons trained on the door, to take out megaspawns.

I think that HWPs were replaced by cyborgs XD . I'd love to use Hoverbikes and Hovercars as air support (Annihilator is a bit of overkill... unless it would be armed with autocannons :D ...) and Groundhogs and Stormdogs as APC and IFV.

Of course, my hat goes off to the Gallop brothers who pioneered XCOM, and I don't criticize. Also, other games use APCs to some extent, air support, etc., but more from a RTS perspective. Imagine the platoon to company-sized tactics and strategies of modern warfare applied from the detailed XCOM perspective. Imagine how different each player's style might be! Consider the importance of snipers, anti-tank missiles, toxin, machine guns, armor, HWPs, a hawk decked out with ground-attack weapons, shields, take-down squads, the whole thing! Again, though, this is more a heavy-mechanized approach to warfare, not a special-forces one, which is what XCOM is all about.

Taking in account that X-Com can have a lot of now almost useless ground vehicles and is capable to go to field in strenght of one platoon, the heavy-mechanized approach to warfere would be more valid.
One vehicle could take one squad slot.

I see the UFO:Aftermath franchise incorporates the idea of a regular army that can be dispatched to attempt to take down certain missions. That's a neat idea. You could have your special forces XCOM agents for some missions, a more conventional heavy-mechanized infantry for more set-piece battles and UFO clean-up when you're not trying to capture live aliens. Un-addressed crashed UFOs should lead to alien infiltration problems in the vicinity. The conventional infantry could also be trained and improve, but to a lesser extent. Well, it's all talk. But if XCOM is the core of what I consider to be the ultimate in tactical combat gaming and suspense, then all this would be massive icing on an already addictive cake.

It's weird that corporations don't fight alien infestation on their own - they have strong armed agents that can repel an X-Com attack, but they can't fight aliens...

Basically, bring back the HWPs and the real terror missions!

Exaclty! Am I wrong or aliens don't attack civilians anymore?

#9 Steelion

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Posted 17 March 2007 - 04:22 PM

They're more worried about the threat at hand- namely the half dozen or so heavily armed soldiers trying to kill them. Civvies can wait.
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#10 Sorrow

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Posted 17 March 2007 - 04:35 PM

Civvies are easy to kill. They had no problem with killing them in UFO and TFTD.

BTW
I would like to see civvies during raids on organizations :D .

Edited by Sorrow, 17 March 2007 - 04:36 PM.


#11 NKF

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Posted 17 March 2007 - 06:28 PM

They only kill civilians if they are caught in the crossfire otherwise they do not actively attack civilians. Strangely enough, you aren't penalised for killing civilians.

Also, technically, the organisations do fight off the alien infestation - it's just not obvious. Normally, once the core of the aliens at a infiltration drop-site are cleared (by you), the rent-a-cops (who'd fled when you arrived) can come in and reduce any left-over aliens until the infiltration hits 0 (i.e. the drop-off of infiltration in the graphs). Weakened sites (mostly smaller groups of aliens that spread to adjacent building sites) generally die off naturally unless they're strong enough to continue raising the level of infiltration in the building. This can be thought as the aliens dying off naturally, or the work of the guards.

It just would've been nice if the guards were to appear in the battlescape to help you. If only to show that they're willing, even if they're ineffectual.

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Edited by NKF, 17 March 2007 - 06:30 PM.

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#12 Aiki-Knight

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 01:19 PM

They only kill civilians if they are caught in the crossfire otherwise they do not actively attack civilians. Strangely enough, you aren't penalised for killing civilians.

Also, technically, the organisations do fight off the alien infestation - it's just not obvious. Normally, once the core of the aliens at a infiltration drop-site are cleared (by you), the rent-a-cops (who'd fled when you arrived) can come in and reduce any left-over aliens until the infiltration hits 0 (i.e. the drop-off of infiltration in the graphs). Weakened sites (mostly smaller groups of aliens that spread to adjacent building sites) generally die off naturally unless they're strong enough to continue raising the level of infiltration in the building. This can be thought as the aliens dying off naturally, or the work of the guards.

It just would've been nice if the guards were to appear in the battlescape to help you. If only to show that they're willing, even if they're ineffectual.

- NKF

Oh yes! And cops. Cops should drive up in a patrol car and attempt to help. And become a liability when they're badly outgunned for the job. They do it in the sky - why not on the ground? :-)

#13 Steelion

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 07:23 PM

You should be able to equip certain organizations with better equipment. If a company keeps getting attacked, give them some disruptors. Of course, if you become enemies, they would use the weapons against you.
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#14 Blehm 98

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 11:02 PM

if you ever see an organization's Rentacops in combat, they gain alien technology, just a few weeks after the aliens get it. After 10 weeks or so, everyone has shields and devastators and such, so yeah...
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#15 Aiki-Knight

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Posted 19 March 2007 - 12:44 AM

if you ever see an organization's Rentacops in combat, they gain alien technology, just a few weeks after the aliens get it. After 10 weeks or so, everyone has shields and devastators and such, so yeah...


That's really frustrating: we have to bust our butts to get alien technology, and yet the orgs all get it as fast as we do. They don't take down UFOs, nor do they have to clean up infestations often, if at all, especially with my zero-tolerance play style.

It especially bugs me with the Cult and the gangs - if they have 0% infiltration, why are they armed to the teeth? Why can't I stomp them with superior technology? Grrr.

Of course, I realize it contributes to play balance, but it's frustrating all the same.

On another note, I know we talk about pseudo-terror missions in X3, but man - those old missions in X1 at night - THOSE were terror missions. As in, I was in terror playing them. And my people had guns! Just imagine what the civilians go through: they're hunted down and slaughtered. Combining that night terror with real-time play - one could enjoy many a terror mission. Imagine a terror mission in a full-size mall. The mayhem would be unreal. You'd have to storm the mall to try to save as many lives as possible. That would be a fantastic improvement.

Those old night-time early-game terror missions with Chryssalids were the WORST. THAT was terror.

#16 Steelion

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Posted 19 March 2007 - 07:48 AM

Well, I meant they might get the tech slowly, but much slower than you. You could kit them out earlier to give them an edge.
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#17 NRN_R_Sumo1

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Posted 20 March 2007 - 09:37 PM

Aiki, that civ thing reminds me of the time all my agents died during a base raid.. and I only had one badly placed platform.. I had to lure the baddies to my platform.. I lost a lot of men that day.. *sniff*
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#18 Aiki-Knight

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Posted 27 March 2007 - 04:40 PM

Aiki, that civ thing reminds me of the time all my agents died during a base raid.. and I only had one badly placed platform.. I had to lure the baddies to my platform.. I lost a lot of men that day.. *sniff*


Who was raiding you - aliens or humans? How many agents did you have? I imagine that only one platform would indeed be hard to defend. Usually, I assume that I have a line of stations behind which my agents (no fewer than 8) can line up and add firepower to the security stations. As I've mentioned before, I've had that line breached only in this most recent game, but it does create chaos when I'm trying to run the invaders down in the halls before they get to the living quarters where all the science and engineering staff are hiding. These days, I have extra security stations and some reserve agents guarding the one designated living quarters/attack shelter. Thankfully, the bad guys haven't succeeded in reaching this last line of defence. If/when they do, I'll be convinced that the damned game learns over time. :-) Maybe this is the problem with having the same installation of the game installed on your computer for years.

#19 NRN_R_Sumo1

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 12:46 PM

Oh I had about 6 agents, without ammo that is, I realized that after I sent them bursting into the Vehical bay. they all died and I had to use my Scientists to lure :\..
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#20 simho

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Posted 23 October 2007 - 06:10 AM

I have been pumping out Biotrans to sell. There is a limit of how many u can make - 152 to be exact. Biotrans-153 will not be manufactured. Your manufacture progress bar will stay at 100% and your engineers sit around smoking cigars and drinking coffee :P

#21 NRN_R_Sumo1

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Posted 23 October 2007 - 05:17 PM

HOORAH! All this time and finally an answer xD!
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