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#1 Aiki-Knight

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Posted 10 May 2007 - 11:44 PM

I'm trying to cultivate a set of truly super-commando agents. It's late-game, and training facilities have maxed out most attributes, except bravery, which only comes in combat. In the squad roles thread, I mention my *SC* agent class (super commando). To qualify, an agent must have 90+ stats in all categories, including bravery. So I've ben taking Stormtroopers (mid-high stat agents) and sending them against the gangs and cults ONE AT A TIME.

That's right. To cultivate true commando status, I'm training agents up by sending him/her alone on a mission. I find that, when a single agent kills 8+ enemies, its bravery goes up by 10 points per mission.

My record? 14 on 1.

It was unbelievable - I raided Diablo with one excellent stormtrooper. I used a lot a movement to keep flanking the enemies. I had my agent stun-gas groups for shields and equipment, and pick up their vortex mines to use against them. Pop out from behind a large pillar, pop off a few shots, duck behind once the enemy barrage stars, duck out the other side, throw explosives/gas, pop off shots, duck back in, scoot over to a dead enemy, grab vortex mines, throw as possible, duck, and run. I use the superior stamina of late-game agents to keep moving, and in some cases, to create distance between the agent and a large force of enemies storming its position. I've found an agent totally stormed by Diablo gangsters: prime stun gas, run and drop in the agent's path. Duck behind cover, flank, pop out, shoot, move, and repeat.

What an AMAZING way to play. Several times I've used the agent's powersword against storming enemies. I carry an extra MarSec body piece and hit the rooftops for awesome sniping when things get too rough on the ground. And yes - that stormtrooper (named after one of my Jiu Jitsu teachers) killed 14 Diablo gangsters and took control of the entire building. No gangsters escaped.

The result of this insane kind of fighting is that individual agents' stats really go up. I've got one commando all 95+, and 100 bravery. It shoots up their kills and medals fast, too. I'm trying to put together a full team of total commando agents. And it's nice to see that their outstanding kill record really justifies those high stats. Beware, cults, aliens and gangsters: XCOM commando agents are looking for you! :-)

What does everyone think? And what's your record for number of kills by one agent in a single mission?

#2 NKF

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Posted 10 May 2007 - 11:49 PM

Sounds a bit like an offshoot of my solo android missions (well, not mine exactly). Only this pays little regard to the stat upgrades! :D

Yeah, playing solo missions really force you to play and think differently. But that's good, as you can later translate these experiences over to your normal game. Only problem is using human/hybrids on alien mission. There's little you can do to combat brainsuckers unless you've got a fresh teleporter or AP grenade on standby at all times.

There is one thing about playing this way, a large portion of the enemies in the battlescape will never actually face you. Lots of enemies will randomly retreat from combat. Often with the loot you went in to capture. But alas, them's the breaks.

- NKF

Edited by NKF, 11 May 2007 - 12:32 AM.

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#3 Aiki-Knight

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Posted 13 May 2007 - 01:57 AM

It's great when the gangsters bring lots of heavy missiles: flank, stun, take launcher/missiles, blast, chuck empty launcher, repeat.

I'm gettin' pretty good at this. It's getting to the point where the more heavy weapons the bad guys bring to the battle, the more it hurts them! Easily more than half the kills my solo agents make are made with vortex mines and missiles taken off stunned/dead enemies. It's like I'm using my enemies to bring the good equipment to the battle. No problem - just take it from them and use it on them. Stun grenades tend to take out whole squads of gangsters, who tend to band together.

Some of them DO rush my agent, who wins point-blank encounters, on account of his/her superior abilities, power sword, and disruptor armor. Still, this game, as I've said before, seems to have engendered a lot of hard rushing by the bad guys. When too many rush my solo agent, I just slap on the flying plate and head for the roof. I even toss down various grenades from the roof onto the gathered rushers below.

Talk about the dark side. ;-)

#4 NRN_R_Sumo1

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Posted 13 May 2007 - 01:57 PM

Wow Aiki, reminds me of Halo2 ^^'
I just use the other sides weapons since they are better against the other side.
Plasma =better vs Covenant
Lead= better vs Humans

They learn to create weapons based on effectiveness towards their own people, much like in X-com.
Although in Xcom there is Toxiguns of course! ^^
Me: Magic Eight Ball, do alien beings inhabit the earth?

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#5 Aiki-Knight

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Posted 16 May 2007 - 04:09 PM

Wow Aiki, reminds me of Halo2 ^^'
I just use the other sides weapons since they are better against the other side.
Plasma =better vs Covenant
Lead= better vs Humans

They learn to create weapons based on effectiveness towards their own people, much like in X-com.
Although in Xcom there is Toxiguns of course! ^^


I admit - I've never played Halo or even SEEN it, for that matter! But it sounds like a first-person shooter, which is what XCOM3 is starting to feel like: one character, engaging multiple enemies, running around, impossibly slaying tons of bad guys. I've been playing this way for about 2 weeks now, and I've never had to send more than one agent on a raid. It's ridiculous. It's awesome!

Today, I sent my first sniper commando on a solo mission to a Diablo slum, the kind with the castle-like turrets on the roof. I slapped on the sniper's flying plate, sent her to the roof, and prepared to snipe. Oddly, the gangsters came to the roof very quickly, but I had the sniper shoot out the stairs to the various turrets, so she could hold the high ground and prevent the gangsters from surrounding her and taking cover. What ensued was ... godlike.

Using mobility inside the turret, the sniper would take a couple shots, step to the side, take more shots, duck behind a turret, duck out, throw stun gas, pop off a few shots, and duck behind a post again. The gangsters trying to storm the turret (they do this a lot in this particular game) found the stairs useless, and were helpless at such close range against a far superior agent with way better reactions and accuracy (this is VERY late-game).

Taking breaks between rooftop battles, the sniper would look over the edge of the turret towards the ground below, sniping and taking out a few gangsters running around on the ground trying to figure out where to go. 9 gangsters dead. And taking out 13 and 14 is nothing unusual in this kind of commando gameplay. As for the pretty sniper (named after a really cute friend of mine in real life), she had double shields and lost almost no shield power, only being hit by one devastator and one disruptor shot at different times. I didn't have to re-equip her at all.

Awesome.

Anyway, I'm going to see how long I have patience to up my agents to full Commando status (90+ all stats), then see what I can do to make the game even more intense. Maybe I'll let aliens through and land, and see how successful this commando fighting is against aliens. Could it be possible to Commando an alien building? (No way!)

As it is, I don't bother sending more than one agent on raids anymore. Sure, the gangs and cult throw vortex mines and rush (powe sword!), and use heavy rockets, wear shields and cloaks and the whole thing - it just doesn't seem to matter. I've upped 14 so far to full Commando this way. And with having agents pick up enemy equipment and moving around like this, it feels like a first-person shooter from a third-person point of view. Sweet. Very exciting.

#6 NRN_R_Sumo1

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Posted 19 May 2007 - 11:07 AM

do you start your commandos with normal stats, like a fresh agent? ^_^

I enjoy doing that, its fun.
Me: Magic Eight Ball, do alien beings inhabit the earth?

Eight Ball: For the love of God, would you stop jiggling me! How can I predict the future when I'm about to throw up?!

#7 Aiki-Knight

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Posted 19 May 2007 - 04:11 PM

do you start your commandos with normal stats, like a fresh agent? ^_^

I enjoy doing that, its fun.


Well, I don't use editors to up my troops at all. That being said, I don't start commandos from fresh - I figure the military wouldn't do it that way. I start rookies out led by veterans, then keep them in training and on missions. When they hit my "stormtrooper" level class (60+ stats more or less across the board), I send them out with each other in smaller groups. When they start to approach commando level (90+ stats), I start the commando insanity.

It WOULD be interesting to try a little commando action with new agents. I think it would up their stats fast, but with their poor reactions, aim, strength and stamina, it would probably just get them killed. I find that stamina makes a huge difference with commandos, who can continue to be running and mobile, making it impossible for enemies to run them down and trap them. A tired rookie would be in a lot of trouble, fast, I think. Still, I might try it next time I start a game. :-)

#8 NKF

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 12:10 AM

With good equipment, you should be fine with brand new rookies. However, your strength stat's not going to improve very quickly, as that only improves through the combat gym (which in turn requires you to be at full health when midnight strikes). Low strength and heavy equipment reduces stamina, which as you said really does make the agent. Being able to run for long periods of time is vital for small squad (or loner) battles.

With rookies, you'll need to rest a lot and walk to conserve your energy whenever it is safe to do so.

- NKF
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#9 NRN_R_Sumo1

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 10:20 PM

Well in all fairness, if you have shields..
You are basically immune to anything the other civilizations have out for you,
Just use Two agents instead of one ^^
Hide one somewhere like Recon,and if your other dies you can still recover the equipment :D
Me: Magic Eight Ball, do alien beings inhabit the earth?

Eight Ball: For the love of God, would you stop jiggling me! How can I predict the future when I'm about to throw up?!

#10 Aiki-Knight

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Posted 26 May 2007 - 01:19 AM

OK - Why Going Commando Against a Mothership is a BAD idea:

I took a real super-agent: 95+ across the board, a few 100 stats, including 100 PSI energy, 100 PSI defence and 99 PSI attack. This agent has 73 kills and 145% improvement. This babe can seriously ROCK. She's a sniper who's been just MOPPING up the gangs, even rich Osiron, by herself. I shot down a mothership and thought I'd throw her up against a full crew.

She never got a chance to take a shot.

You see, there's a limit to how many items can be in a game. I've noticed this: throw in 20 agents loaded to the gills with gear, and the aliens will have limited equipment. Many won't be shielded, many won't have cloaks, some even won't have weapons. Throw ONE agent in, and the aliens are SWIMMING in gear.

My absolute Super-Commando dropped into the mission beside the mothership. In the first second, I heard the tell-tale "BONG" of not one, but several teleporters. "Bah," I scoffed. She can take 'em. Let's move to the door, grab some high ground, and begin the sniper-commando domination. WRONG.

One squad of arthropods teleported out of the ship within firing range of her on one side, while another full squad of skeletoids did the same on her other side. They were cloaked, I'm assuming shielded, and armed to the teeth with disruptor missiles AND entropy missiles. The arthropods wasted no time at all in unleashing a massive volley of missiles. I knew this was bad, so I had her run for the exit point.

Which was guarded by the squad of skeletoids. :-(

Three missiles hit in quick succession and took out her double shields. Maybe a second later, a volley, I'm seriously saying a volley, of entropy missiles hit her unshielded armor. SHEESH! And on top of that, two poppers were closing in on her fast. Disruptor fire was coming in hard, and more dimension missiles were soon on the way. This super-commando never got a chance to fire a single shot or throw a single grenade in response. There was only time to hit the exit point at all costs.

She barely made it.

I've always said this particular game I'm playing has been weird with really aggressive AI. This is the same game in which aliens and gangsters regularly storm THROUGH the security stations and actually kill scientists who are on the way to a shelter. Of course, with better agents and top equipment, plus the best layouts, I had put a stop to that. But even in recent Commando missions, I often have found gangsters storming a commando with a rush and vortex mines. This mission was unbelievable. All the arthropods and skeletoids had teleporters. They teleported out in SQUADS and surrounded a near-100 agent across the board, driving her off without any problem. They were organized, and the way they stacked the poppers and entropy missiles on top of the dimension missiles was downright terrifying. It was really shocking.

I can't explain why the computer is so smart in this particular savegame, even apart from the commando tactics (perhaps it's because I'm at 148,000 points). But when the aliens can actually equip their whole crew to their liking, not hindred by the item cap, they are really dangerous. With a full team, of course I could have mopped them up, but not without a lot of lost shields and perhaps several injured agents. It was exhilarating. It made the late-game far from a slam dunk. Anyone had this happen? And if you're bored with the late game after teleporters come in (100,000 points), try sending one agent against a mothership. NKF, even you might have a little trouble! Ok, well, we'll wait for your reply.

Commando Supremacy? Commando Bare-Survival!

#11 NKF

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Posted 26 May 2007 - 05:14 AM

You had teleporters you say? Hmm.


The teleporters will be the real equaliser, so it might just work!

Let's see, a full suit of disrupter armour, 1 shield, five teleporters, a pair of power swords, a pocket with a toxigun and some C or B grade ammo, the other pocket and shoulders packed with stun or AAG gas grenades.

This might be able to work with a maxed human or android. If it's with a hybrid, 1 teleporter is dropped out for the mind bender. The hybrid needs to at least have maxed energy and skillful enough to grab ahold of a skeletoid. With psi, the nasty things you can do to the alien forces in a split second is amazing.

With this, the key is to refresh your teleporters as you progress through the battle. From time to time teleport to safety, let some time pass to let the teleporters on the ground recharge a pip or more, and repeat ad nauseum until every last alien is chopped in half. Now, 5 teleporters (or 5 2x2 sized slot items) means you cannot have both swords out at the same time. No big deal. A lot of swapping will be involved, and one teleporter will constantly be on the ground while the commando is attacking.

Of course, this being a scenario that's just in my head (which I've seen before, but with a larger squad), that's probably easier said than done, eh? I'll see if I've got a savegame with easy access to a battleship and give it a try.

- NKF

Edited by NKF, 26 May 2007 - 05:25 AM.

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#12 j'ordos

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Posted 26 May 2007 - 06:17 AM

About the aggressive AI, I looked at the readme.txt file that comes with xcom3, and this paragraph took my attention:

Technical Supplement Amendments
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The paragraph describing Artificial Intelligence and the swapping
of files from other players is no longer relevant to the game. The
experience files are now saved in order to prevent players
from cheating.


I wonder if this means the AI actually DOES 'learn'? Or does saved mean it won't altered? :)

Edited by j'ordos, 26 May 2007 - 06:23 AM.

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#13 Aiki-Knight

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Posted 26 May 2007 - 03:16 PM

About the aggressive AI, I looked at the readme.txt file that comes with xcom3, and this paragraph took my attention:

Technical Supplement Amendments
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The paragraph describing Artificial Intelligence and the swapping
of files from other players is no longer relevant to the game. The
experience files are now saved in order to prevent players
from cheating.


I wonder if this means the AI actually DOES 'learn'? Or does saved mean it won't altered? :)

If the experience is saved in a save game, is it possible that one savegame has developed superior AI? I wonder what would happen if I kept the game going to, say, 500,000 points. I wonder what the AI would do.

NKF - I'd love to see you play the mission the way you describe it. Honestly, film that and put it on YouTube for us! :-) This is what I mean - you're WAY ahead of me (most of us, I think) - you think in an entirely different way from me. You're so far out of the box, you don't even acknowledge the box! ;-) Wow. Thanks for that.

#14 Aiki-Knight

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Posted 26 May 2007 - 04:53 PM

Dark Knights of the Republic!

Wow, NKF, I tried that scheme of yours. Took my top commando, loaded her up with 4 teleporters in her backpack, one on her leg, and one in her hand, a mind bender on her other leg, 8 stun grenades, and a toxigun with 6 extra clips of toxin C. I engaged a gang for practice. I didn't hit the roof (no flying armor), just engaged them up close.

It's like being a Sith lord who can also stop time.

Spot enemies, mind control one and have him prime and drop his vortex mines. He blows sky-high, injuring his fellows. Teleport in, prime and drop stun gas and disappear. Wait for stun. Teleport in, prime and throw/drop more bombs, and teleport out. Repeat. Kill stunned enemies.

It's amazing: I can have my commando dodge missiles, appear beside enemies, slash 'n' dash, and so on. How could humans have a chance? It's like going commando without needing cover or TIME. This is a major evolution. If only we could get anti-alien gas earlier. Whew! Such teleportation resources drastically turn an XCOM commando into a Jedi knight. I'm just stunned at the sheer power of the strategy. To the enemies, it must appear as though grenades appear beside them out of nowhere. When they do see the XCOM agent, surely the agent must seem like a ghost. Other times, their friends appear possessed by some spirit. It's kind of too bad that even a maxed-out PSI agent is so limited with PSI. I only manage to mind-control maybe two enemies during the short, furious, magical battle. Still, it's a compelling Jedi touch.

I'm gong to need a new designation for such super agents. Commando denotes near-max agents who use cover and superior (human) skills to crush enemies. What's higher than commando? Ultra-commando? Jedi Knight? Sith Lord?

:-)

Edited by Aiki-Knight, 26 May 2007 - 04:55 PM.


#15 NKF

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Posted 26 May 2007 - 06:49 PM

There's a reason that they left the personal teleporter as the last unlockable alien technology that you can get. And you've found it. In the hands of the human player, it's incredibly effective. It's a very fitting reward for players who manage to play the game long enough to accumulate sufficient points.

Don't let the sheer power of the teleporter let you forget all your great strategies that you used to use before them.

Luckily, even with such a powerful device, it allows for human error. I've had my fair share of experiences where I overworked by teleporters and ended up in the middle of a huge horde of aliens with no charged teleporters.

Best experience where I managed to just scrape free of such a situation was with a soldier who ended up in a room in the alien dimension's megapod chamber. There was this unusually large congregation of aliens in one of the large enclosed hallways (there were spawn pads in there). Soldier went in, surprised by such a large mob of aliens. In a panic, I went through all the teleporters and only found one with 2 pips remaining. Let time run. Anthropod threw vortex mine. I paused during the explosion and the shields were wiped out along with a fair chunk of health. After a quick inspection, I noted there were dimension missiles in the air (from megaspawn), the poor tosser was dead and the teleporter had charged up. A quick teleport outside and the whole game just slowed down. After a very long while of continuous explosions and part of the roof caving in, everything inside was dead. A chain reaction of vortex mines, boomeroids, dimension missiles did them all in. Simply amazing, but the poor agent didn't even get credited with any of it, and took a severe battering in the process.

This is one of my other most memorable spontaneous game moments, along with the old running-into-anthropod-in-a-bathroom-with-hidden-civilian-dying-at-same-time experience.

- NKF

Edited by NKF, 26 May 2007 - 07:11 PM.

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#16 Aiki-Knight

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Posted 27 May 2007 - 12:11 AM

This is one of my other most memorable spontaneous game moments, along with the old running-into-anthropod-in-a-bathroom-with-hidden-civilian-dying-at-same-time experience.

- NKF


Oh, do tell us that one!

#17 NKF

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Posted 27 May 2007 - 12:23 AM

I think I've already mentioned this, but what the heck. Story time.

It's basically just what it says. It happened in one of the apartment buildings. The interior map with the blue carpet and the 60's decor apartment rooms. I had one of my agents run a room by room search. Just as the agent steps through the door into one of the bathrooms, an anthropod is spotted facing a bath tub. It spins around to face my agent. At that moment an injured female civilian (lady with yellow hat) dies from blood loss. I only found her later; she had been running around in the hallway on the other side of the bathroom wall.

The combined effect of the anthropod spinning around and the scream (which looked like it was coming from the anthropod) was priceless.

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#18 Aiki-Knight

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 12:28 AM

I think I've already mentioned this, but what the heck. Story time.

It's basically just what it says. It happened in one of the apartment buildings. The interior map with the blue carpet and the 60's decor apartment rooms. I had one of my agents run a room by room search. Just as the agent steps through the door into one of the bathrooms, an anthropod is spotted facing a bath tub. It spins around to face my agent. At that moment an injured female civilian (lady with yellow hat) dies from blood loss. I only found her later; she had been running around in the hallway on the other side of the bathroom wall.

The combined effect of the anthropod spinning around and the scream (which looked like it was coming from the anthropod) was priceless.

- NKF

How did a wounded lady wind up in a bathroom with an arthropod? Who shot her?

It's kind of a shame that the aliens in XCOM3 don't go after the civilians as they do in X1 - it really pressed XCOM forces to get moving on the aliens in order to save civilians. Although, in truth, X1 terror forces are so dangerous that I find I have to play to win, and just hope that saves as many civilians as possible. I think real-time XCOM3 commandos could do a really nice job against XCOM1 terror forces. I'd love to see how my non-teleporting highly mobile late-game commandos would fare in a desperate battle to save civilians in a real terror mission. Think LOTS of hapless civilians. I'm thinking it would be really, really exhilarating.

I'm getting better at using multi-teleporting together with PSI-control and my commando tactics to mop up 16-man gangsters forces. It's like playing Quake Team Fortress with an XCOM agent: using superior attributes, mobility, firing, and of course, teleporting to stay quite close in with large groups, wiping them out. XCOM3, as exciting as it is, always felt like a strong chess game in semi-real time. Winning firefights with better troops, equipment and deployment was the modus operandi. It's amazing how these almost Quake-like personal tactics (really only truly effective with a late-game super-trooper) are possible. It has totally changed the game. I mean, out of my 100 agents, I really only need ONE agent to deal with the whole city. Potentially, the whole game.

All that remains is to use a teleporting ultra-commando to take down whole Motherships. I think asking a single agent to take down alien buildings is a bit much, although, with enough vortex-mine harvesting off killed aliens and teleport-pad control, I suppose it IS possible. Has anyone taken down a mothership or even an alien building with one awesome (teleporting, I imagine) agent? Well, I can't imagine that anyone could take down the final alien building with one agent. I mean, ALL those skeletoids, megaspawns and dimension missiles... :P

Edited by Aiki-Knight, 28 May 2007 - 12:29 AM.


#19 NKF

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 12:53 AM

The yellow-hat lady was wounded in an earlier explosion. I think a popper jumped some of my troops at the intersection, or maybe it was a boomeroid. Either way the poor lady was hurt.

She wasn't in the bathroom. Rather, she was in the hallway just beyond the bathroom wall.

As for commando multi-teleport wipeout of the capital ships, I couldn't say. For alien buildings however, you can most definitely beat them with the one agent. There's lots of space, and you can clear enough of the spawn pads to create several relatively safe zones, not to mention all the room you can use to make very small bunkers for resting in.

With alien dimension buildings, there are two ways to win the battle. Destroy the mission targets and escape, or destroy the mission targets and wipe out all the aliens. With the teleporters, you can literally blitz through the map and destroy the mission targets and then leg it out of there once the building is disabled. You needn't fight any aliens at all - with the exception of the queen-spawn.

But of course, where's the fun in that? The total-wipeout is what you want to achieve.

The biggest challenge will probably be gathering up the vortex mines for the spawn pads. Perhaps you could sacrifice some of your teleporters for vortex mines, and then gather up your missing teleporters during the battle.

Alternately, a less exciting method would be to bring in a small squad of mules carrying vortex mines. Just so that they're not a liability in combat, you can have them drop the grenades into a pile and evacuate from the area. You'll just have to pray and hope that the aliens don't blow up the storage pile, or steal any vortex mines from the pile while your commando is out and about.

- NKF

Edited by NKF, 28 May 2007 - 12:54 AM.

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#20 Exo2000

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 05:38 AM

Alternately, a less exciting method would be to bring in a small squad of mules carrying vortex mines. Just so that they're not a liability in combat, you can have them drop the grenades into a pile and evacuate from the area. You'll just have to pray and hope that the aliens don't blow up the storage pile, or steal any vortex mines from the pile while your commando is out and about.

- NKF


Or you can have 'em guard the pile. ;)
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#21 j'ordos

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 09:07 AM

It's probably a bad idea to give the aliens an incentive to fire their weapons anywhere near the piles, plus the mules would need weapons to defend the pile, meaning they'd carry less vortex mines. Ofcourse you could bring OTHER agents to defend the mines, but by then you already have an entire squad, which doesn't really have a commando feeling to it :)
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#22 NKF

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Posted 29 May 2007 - 04:15 AM

You got me thinking about the last alien building.

One agent could possibly do it, with or without teleporters. Obviously, the teleporters would be a massive help in herding or avoiding the hordes of aliens, but it you should be able to accomplish this without teleporters.

The key to defeating that map is to disable half of the laser grid generators and escaping (well, that's the only way).

If you just keep running and concentrate your fire on the generators, you should be able to run the half circle around the pit (or in it) and hit the exit opposite from where you started.

To make it easy, AAG grenades can be used to wipe out nearby mobs of enemies in a flash. If you've got teleporters and a Marsec Torso, you can drop a couple of quarter sec AAG grenades in the middle of the skeletoid horde hover in the pit.

What weapon combinations would destroy the generators the fastest though? Devestator cannons and power swords would definitely work. Wonder how many AAG mini rockets are needed to destroy each generator though? Anyone remember?


- NKF

Edited by NKF, 29 May 2007 - 04:24 AM.

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#23 NRN_R_Sumo1

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Posted 29 May 2007 - 07:10 PM

AAG Rockets work against Terrain? :|
I didnt know that.. I figured they did as much as stun grenades xD
Me: Magic Eight Ball, do alien beings inhabit the earth?

Eight Ball: For the love of God, would you stop jiggling me! How can I predict the future when I'm about to throw up?!

#24 NKF

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Posted 29 May 2007 - 11:51 PM

The AAG rockets do destroy the laser grid generators - about the only physical objects they can destroy.

Or perhaps it's the special impact damage that rockets have (not counting the explosive effect). Ever notice how entropy missiles sometimes hurt your agents when it's only supposed to eat at the durability of your equipment? That's caused by the rocket's impact.

I've never personaly used AAG rockets on anything but the generators - and I only discovered that in a brief moment of insanity where there were a bunch of skeletoids around a generator. Instead of aiming at the skeletoids, I shot a heavy launcher AAG rocket at the most obvious non-moving target. When the thing exploded, I found out.

- NKF
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#25 NRN_R_Sumo1

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 01:16 PM

I remember throwing in a AA Grenade, but I never used the AAG Missles.. the Mini launcher once or twice I suppose xD
Me: Magic Eight Ball, do alien beings inhabit the earth?

Eight Ball: For the love of God, would you stop jiggling me! How can I predict the future when I'm about to throw up?!

#26 Aiki-Knight

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Posted 03 June 2007 - 03:43 PM

Commando takes down battleship singlehandly

Hey All, My Ultra-Commando took down her first battleship, solo. Here was her loadout:

Disruptor armor
Toxigun with 9 clips of Toxin C
6 stun grenades
4 teleporters, one held in hand
mindbender
motion sensor
1 personal shield in the backpack

The aliens came for her hard and swung for the fences. Shields, teleporters, dimension missiles and entropy missiles, poppers, brainsuckers, 3 megaspawns and (laughable) spitters. They teleported out in squads, surrounded my agent, the whole thing.

I had my agent take the corrider north-east of the ship's door. Arthropods teleported out in a squad and began a fierce assault up the stairs into the corrider, coupling entropy and dimension missiles. I stuck her close to the corner, and dodged for cover at the first sign of a DM launch, but one caught her (stupid me), dropping her shield. So then I got REALLY careful. I popped back out ? la commando tactics, popped off shots, a teleported out of missile solutions. I was taking both DM and entropy fire when two arthropods stormed up the stairs together and threw TWO vortex mines at my agent's position. By this time, ordnance was already lying everywhere on the floor. I teleported her the heck outta there, and the whole corrider went KABLOOEY!

But a squad of 5 skeletoids had teleported outside and surrounded the entrance to the corrider outside, two of which had DM, one entropy, and two devastators. I popped off some shots, teleported outside behind them once they fired, catching the missile skeletoids in the back before they could fire again. I had to teleport again away from an entropy missile - I dropped the agent RIGHT BEHIND the shooter. Needless to say, she was a lot faster on the draw than the skeltoid was. Man, was that sweet. Then it was time to mop up the two shooters. Disruptor armor gave my ultra-commando some stand-and-fight margin, but I couldn't just have her stand there without dodging out, taking cover, and then popping out and finishing them off, old-school. I like to save teleportation resources for rainy days. She finished off the two skels, picked up a fresh shield off one of them, and then stormed back through the wrecked corrider to get to the UFO's door. I had to teleport her across the massive gap in the floor.

She slugged it out commando-style with a megaspawn camping by the stairs, then was about to move down the stairs for the door when a hapless squad of 4 spitters literally blocked off the staircase and starting spitting. No problem for an agent with 100 points on most attributes, with maybe 3 attributes between 94 and 97. I had her move down the stairs to the UFO door. Inside, there were two more arthropods, one with a DM launcher, but his back was turned, so he was no problem. The other was a devastator shooter, and had poor accuracy, so he was toast. The motion sensor showed the megaspawns heading for the lift, so I tried to get my agent near the bottom, to catch them in transit, one by one. But the first one didn't panic: he came down and started firing. No problem - just had her teleport outside the door in case the Dimension Missile followed her. Then I had her open the door, and catch the first megaspawn as he was coming off the lift. The second one landed soon thereafter, and he panicked. It never fired a shot.

Mission complete. 27 kills. 1 agent. Whooo-eee!

Thanks to NKF, I have learned how to take down entire capital ships with one, albeit very very good, agent. It's just crazy! Total Quake-style fighting, chaos, slaughter, the whole thing. I always felt that, in its own way, XCOM3 was a little realistic, in that equal numbers seemed necessary to make victory reasonable. But with very, very carefully micromanaged tactics, together with the right loadout, advanced alien equipment, and an outstanding super-late-game hybrid agent with crazy (but unedited!) stats (and 235 kills), this game takes on this Quake/Halo/Gears of War quality.

What's left? A mothership, and alien buildings. I'm sure the mothership can be taken by my sweet ultra-commando. I THINK alien buildings can be taken, although it's going to take a lot of harvesting vortex mines, and a ton of movement. The final mission? I still think I'll take a butt-kicking assault force of my TOP commandos.

Just on principle. :-)

Edited by Aiki-Knight, 03 June 2007 - 03:45 PM.


#27 NRN_R_Sumo1

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Posted 03 June 2007 - 06:51 PM

I dont understand why people bother finishing the game, Ending the game is pointless xP!

Its really just more fun to do single rookie vs full ship suicide missions.. ^^'

Theres only One way to learn how to be awesome, and it involves wasting agents :D
Me: Magic Eight Ball, do alien beings inhabit the earth?

Eight Ball: For the love of God, would you stop jiggling me! How can I predict the future when I'm about to throw up?!

#28 NKF

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Posted 03 June 2007 - 08:01 PM

There is a great reason to end the game. So that you can do the whole shebang all over again, with all the knowledge you've gained thus far.

In Apocalypse though, once you wipe out the command centre, the UFO production stops, so things kind of get boring after that.

Aiki-Knight: I suggest doing the last mission with the whole gang, for the sake of doing so. Then try it again with your lone commando to see if you can.

- NKF

Edited by NKF, 03 June 2007 - 08:03 PM.

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#29 Aiki-Knight

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Posted 03 June 2007 - 11:50 PM

There is a great reason to end the game. So that you can do the whole shebang all over again, with all the knowledge you've gained thus far.

In Apocalypse though, once you wipe out the command centre, the UFO production stops, so things kind of get boring after that.

Aiki-Knight: I suggest doing the last mission with the whole gang, for the sake of doing so. Then try it again with your lone commando to see if you can.

- NKF

That's for sure - about doing the game again with new knowledge. Really, the most exciting part of the game is the early stages, when you're struggling to survive missions. It's immensely satisfying to see agents come back alive from missions, see them get those first promotions, and see their bars grow a little. It feels like ... progress. The first few weeks of the game are so magical, when you have so few agents, when you get base-attacked before your new layout is completed, before you have many troops. It's scary, and fun.

I do understand, though, why people also don't want to end the game. I'm in that situation now: I have really a dream-team of top people, awesome bases, a fleet of total hammering ships, all the equipment I could ever need. At the stage, I almost WISH the aliens would bring it on a lot harder, just to be able to flex my XCOM's muscles. At this late-game stage, even when the aliens and gangsters are showing oddly aggressive and organized AI, it's still a little anti-climactic, when a full XCOM team just rolls over the bad guys' best, no contest. This commando fighting has indeed reinvigorated the late game, but taking on the cult and gangs is too easy now, even for one ultra-commando.

In the end, it's that desperate struggle to defend a problematic civilization against a vastly superior and isolated foe that lends the magic to the game. It's the family atmosphere of my XCOM, where agents have fought together countless times, and restored some order to the world. Starting at the beginning brings that out, when co-operation and care are the only way to bring your agents home and survive.

NKF, I will take the whole gang on the final mission. I'll take the best of the best, the XCOM dream-team. I'll hit them with alien gas ad nauseam. I'll whip them every which way, and Heaven knows they deserve it. And wish I could find their REAL world, and unleash entire teams of teleporting ultra-commandos on their arrogant, sorry butts.

Wouldn't THAT be sweet.

#30 NRN_R_Sumo1

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Posted 09 June 2007 - 08:44 AM

*shrugs*
Not Really ^^'

I personally have stopped doing missions in the Alien Dimension just because I like doing missions in the city so much more :D!
Digging in is fun, what can I say?

I have super scouts all over the city.
More Health than their mother ships thanks to Small Shields ^^'
Me: Magic Eight Ball, do alien beings inhabit the earth?

Eight Ball: For the love of God, would you stop jiggling me! How can I predict the future when I'm about to throw up?!

#31 Aiki-Knight

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Posted 17 June 2007 - 01:02 AM

AI getting smarter and smarter?

As you may know, I've been campaigning against hostile orgs with individual commandos for some time. Generally, I take positions of strong cover, pop off shots, duck behind cover, pop out, stun, shoot, recover enemy weapons, use against enemy, and repeat until all enemies are neutralized. Generally, commandos come out with at least one shield intact and no injuries.

But the AI has been ... learning.

One slum is the one with the big gate, and the castle-like turrets on top. For this building, I have a non-teleporting commando slap on the Marsec plate and head for the top turrets. I have him/her take out the stairs to the turrets, so that, by the time enemies reach the roof, they can't storm the turrets, and must try to win against my commando at long range. Generally, commandos use the turrets' cover pillars (pericrinations) to take cover against missiles and heavy fire. Today was no different - I had a top stormtrooper looking to up his bravery to 90 (to qualify for commando status). He had taken out the stairs, was dropping stun gas on groups of gangsters as required, and winning the firefight. And then something surprising happened.

Someone invisible, from the side of the turret, lobbed a VORTEX MINE onto the middle of the turret.

Well, I had the agent flee to the farthest point on the turret and hope that his shields wouldn't be too much reduced by the vortex mine. One it had blown, I had the agent run back to the side where the vortex had come up, and drop a stun gas grenade off the side, to neutralize whoever had lobbed the thing up.

But for the rest of the mission, the gangsters seemed ... smarter. Several took cover across the roof by corners and behind (broken) stairs, firing devastators and missiles, forcing my agent to really move, popping off maybe two or three shots, and ducking behind a pillar to avoid the sure incoming volley of missiles and devastator fire. Meanwhile, a group of cloaked gangsters, NOT FIRING, crawled slowly across the roof towards my agent's turret, trying to sneak up to it. By the time my commando spotted them, they were CLOSE. One even jumped up and stormed the stairs, but couldn't get up, as I'd had the agent shoot out most of the stairs.

It was weird. The gangsters had managed to get guys up to the turret, and from the side, lob a vortex mine right to the correct spot. And their general plan of attack, considering they lacked flying ability, seemed dead-on. I mean, we could be more creative, perhaps mining the entire turret around with mines, then blowing the whole thing to get the agent down (who would probably just jump over to another), but the gangsters pretty-well did everything they should do. It's the first time they've been so good on one of these raids, and the first time anyone's EVER lobbed anything up onto the parapet of a turret.

I'll keep playing this long game and see what the AI does. I know many people will say it's luck, and you may be right, but I do believe, in this particular long game, the AI is improving, as the legend suggests.

#32 zaimoni

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Posted 17 June 2007 - 12:17 PM

I'll keep playing this long game and see what the AI does. I know many people will say it's luck, and you may be right, but I do believe, in this particular long game, the AI is improving, as the legend suggests.

Not legend at all.

The files that implement the AI are easy enough to find. They are a bit large to floppy-swap. And they don't reset when starting a new campaign.

#33 Aiki-Knight

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Posted 17 June 2007 - 09:05 PM

Yep, I think the AI *is* learning.

Did a single-commando raid on the same map, headed for the roof with the turrets. The Osiron gangsters were WAITING for me THERE. They had about 8 guys all set up at the top: 3 on one turret, holding ground (Sheeesh!) and 5 on the roof in various position, waiting to fire at my favorite turret.

Of course, my commando still won. :-)

As soon as my commando grabbed his turret, he didn't even have time to blink before several gangsters had a firing solution on the turret, including a requisite heavy launcher trooper. Fire was just streaming in, and my commando was weathering the storm (really, almost cowering!) behind a pillar. And then, the storming began. The rocket trooper and a couple backups then stormed the turret. I hadn't had time to take out the stairs, so this was a serious problem. My commando simply HAD to rely on his shields while he went to the edge, quickly dropped a stun gas grenade over the edge, then took out the rocket trooper (who was halfway up the stairs!) to be sure. Once the rocket trooper howled and fell, I had my commando dive back behind a pillar for cover, then go back to popping out and firing no more than 3 shots before ducking for cover again.

Once the storming was driven back, I saw some gangsters standing in a cluster firing at me. Tossed a vortex mine at them and got behind the pillar before it even went off. Boom! Shields down for them. Then, it boiled down to a longer-range firefight, where my commando, with superior aim, could shine. I took out the devastators first, then relaxed the popping back and forth a little to allow my commando to take out disruptor and plasma-pistol shooters. Once that really amazing battle was over, I jumped across to the west turret nearest the exit squares, covering any gangsters trying to make a bee-line for the trees. Once I stopped their exodus, I had to go down bottom and clean out three of them trying to make a last stand in the bottom of the building

The commando left the mission with 3 fully charged shields and very little ammo or grenade equipment left. Still, I tell ya' those were not the gangsters of the early game. They were in the right place, working together, covering and assaulting. It was almost like fighting ... an (early) XCOM squad.

This long game is getting INTERESTING! :-)

#34 NRN_R_Sumo1

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Posted 21 June 2007 - 10:17 AM

the game is simply amazing, we cant deny it.
:x

Also, Try some Rookie vs all mission Aiki.
Much more rewarding xD!
mabye put in one of your commando's as a back up if the rookie dies, just hide the commando in a corner with a marsec vest and a stun gun. :)

I do this myself as a training exercise, the results are quite rewarding.
Me: Magic Eight Ball, do alien beings inhabit the earth?

Eight Ball: For the love of God, would you stop jiggling me! How can I predict the future when I'm about to throw up?!

#35 Aiki-Knight

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Posted 21 June 2007 - 03:13 PM

New game: superhuman

I started a superhuman game and have started using total rookies going solo against alien drops, relying on the commando technique of fighting in my last game. My first rookie commando-style mission was against a substantial force of spitters, arthropods, poppers, brainsuckers, and multiworms. My one autocannon-armed rookie got 24 kills (and about 20 points worth of wounds). Still, that's pretty awesome, no?

I guess it's like martial arts - techniques developed over generations (play-throughs) can be passed on to new generations, who can pick it up more quickly. Now the real problem will be to resist the temptation to hire too many new agents :-).

#36 NRN_R_Sumo1

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Posted 22 June 2007 - 09:08 AM

Getting more agents isnt a problem, think of them as replacements when they go down xD!

The first 5 or 10 times I went through this with just rookies without an escort, I kept getting brainsucked by accident v.v'
Silly me and my Aim. :D
Me: Magic Eight Ball, do alien beings inhabit the earth?

Eight Ball: For the love of God, would you stop jiggling me! How can I predict the future when I'm about to throw up?!

#37 Ruanomar

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 12:25 AM

More or less on topic: I made this video of a solo mission for myself to see how would it look like if I edit the pauses and the inventory screen out of a mission. It's not so continuous as wanted it to be, but here you go:

#38 Rhemorigher Arbeth

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:06 PM

More or less on topic: I made this video of a solo mission for myself to see how would it look like if I edit the pauses and the inventory screen out of a mission. It's not so continuous as wanted it to be, but here you go:


Apparently this video is private.

Tease.

#39 Ruanomar

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 11:34 PM

Apparently this video is private.
Tease.

Sorry about that. Should be ok now.