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#1 Serge

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Posted 18 April 2004 - 02:27 PM

We are collecting good ideas for adding massive multiplayer mode to UFO2000.
You can read more information here: http://ufo2000.lxnt....player/HomePage

Any comments in this forum are welcome.
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#2 Extralucas

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Posted 18 April 2004 - 04:00 PM

You have mentioned about humans having their bases located in Submarines. Similiar thing can be done for Aliens, using Space Stations. When player goes off-line, his Ship leaves the orbit.

I was wondering if the game is going to use GeoScape. If yes, then some battles can take up to few weeks (or even months) of game-time. Morevoer, it may happen that you have 2 battles at the same time. Say some regular mission, and suddenly other player decides to strike your base. You can either give players option to play both missions at the same time, or force him to leave the first battlefield and take care of his base. I think you can just set time limit for each turn, so player will be forced to abort mission. With limited amount of time it would be really difficult to play both fights and win.

For GeoScape you can use turn system, where months is counted using Real Time. (I suggest 1 Month = 1 week real time.) Each week players get their 'salaries'. That's for Humans.

Aliens' currency could be food and/or Elerium. Aliens get E115 as fundings from Cydonia. E115 is used to power facilities, build equipment, trade it for items and components (like Alien Alloys). Food is used like salaries for base crew, and maybe for breeding troops.

Diplomacy. Players are divided on Humans vs. Aliens, but they can wage their little wars against themselves, but send rescue teams to evac crashed UFOs/Planes as well.

I was wondering about trading. Two players open Trade Screen, where they set type and amount of goods they will to trade. Then just click 'ok' and items are transfered. Possible to add trading men.

As aliens have a lot of UFOs at their disposal, humans have only few. Lighting seems to carry same amount of troops as Large Scout (Super Human) or Abducter. Skyranger carries even more. Probably humans need some kind of Helicopter Transport.

Humans need E115 very much, while Aliens seem to don't care too much about it. Way to balance things can be Aleins' need for food, so they launch Harvest & Terror missions. (How do you think, what do they do with all these corpses, huh?) Where food is generated in UFO's storages every minute. Then, if UFO succesfully gets back to the Base, stores are filled with food.

I was thinking of Abuction mission. It appears to have no real use for aliens, but we can use it as their unitpoints. Aliens, while extracting genetic material and playing with foetusses, gain unitpoints, which can be spent on breeding new troops. (Depending on Abduction Research advance you can breed better aliens.)

This way Aliens are forced to be active and keep attacking Earth, while X-Com has a planet to defend.

EDIT: Some of Alien vessels can be 'destroyed' after every mission, to stop Aliens from making Terror Sites every minute.

Edited by Extralucas, 18 April 2004 - 04:15 PM.

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#3 red knight

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Posted 18 April 2004 - 08:54 PM

Hi serge, we had already discussed the Massive Multiplayer approach for Xenocide before and we have found a very difficult problem involving the mix between the turn-based nature of battlescape and the realtime nature of the geoscape... you should do a search in the Xenocide forums about it...

Most of the problems are outlined there... hope that helps.

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#4 Serge

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Posted 19 April 2004 - 05:45 AM

2Extralucas:
Thanks for a number of good ideas. I'll create 'Economics' and 'MissionTypes' sections on wiki based on the information you provided. Diplomacy and trading are also interesting but they are less important and will be considered for addition after we have first working version of massive multiplayer mode.

2red knight:
Thanks, that's a lot of valuable information.
As I see, the main difficulty is real time geoscape/turn based battlescape problem. Let's keep it simple and avoid complicated solutions (at least in the first version).

Massive multiplayer should be a natural evolution of current lobby server that is already working.
So geoscape can be realtime, no time compression buttons will be available. The players will be able to play 1 battle at a time in the first version, this restriction can be later removed (with the code for convenient switching between several battles and controlling them all). There will be 3 types of missions first: base defense, resources collection and enemy mission prevention.

Base defense - you can select any player who is currently online for base assault. The battle will not start at once (as the opponent can be not ready for that or already having a battle). Assault will start only when the opponent tries to perform some action, start resources collection mission or try assault someone else for example.

Resources collection - you select a squad and assign a mission to it. If you were targeted for base assault, you will have to defend yourself, otherwise your mission will be visible to all the other players as a mission point on geoscape. Anyone will be able to take a challenge and send his own squad to prevent this mission from completion. Mission is considered completed if nobody has taken a challenge for say 30 minutes. Mission is considered accomplished if you win and failed if you lose.

All this needs balancing but the general idea is that we need some very simple rules that will work and can be extended in the future.
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#5 Deathskull

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Posted 21 June 2004 - 09:51 PM

How much progress have you made so far?
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#6 Serge

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Posted 22 June 2004 - 11:28 AM

I have almost no free time to do any work on UFO2000 currently :(

Here is the description of project status for the end of May (and I'm sorry, I did not even manage to release this bugfix build in time):
http://groups.google...ogle.com&rnum=8

Also you can see project changelog to see the list of changes which were recently added, it is not a secret information: http://ufo2000.lxnt.info/changelog.php

There are also some optimistic news :)

Twilight Owl has joined our team and is now actively working on different mission scenarios for the next version (in fact he has contributed some really cool new maps before, but now he is one of the programmers) . Alexander Sabourenkov is now working on a new matchmaking server which will eventually have all the features needed for massive multiplayer game (reliable network connection, player profiles in MySQL database, ...). I will have two or three weeks of vacation in July or August, so I will be able to do a bit more for the project during that time.

If more people join us and help developing the game, the progress will be more visible.

Edited by Serge, 22 June 2004 - 11:33 AM.

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#7 Deathskull

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Posted 22 June 2004 - 03:16 PM

I want to work on massive multiplayer. Ill make some maps. Do the subs and alien bases have facilitiese or are theey just random terrain? Are they gonna use ufo or tftd tilesets?

Edited by Deathskull, 22 June 2004 - 03:21 PM.

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#8 Hobbes

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Posted 23 June 2004 - 01:47 PM

Hey there,

I've never played UFO2000 (I downloaded it but I couldn't get it to work unfortunately), however I was reading this thread of how you are thinking of a massive multiplayer and an idea just popped up to my head.

Since one of the problems seems to be the aliens' role on the multiplayer (how they win/what types of units, etc.) why don't you restrict the players to the human side? It would take away the fun of playing with the alien's side, I know, but it might solve some of your problems.
It could work the following way: considering that there's 16 nations on UFO/TFTD, each player would assume play as an individual nation. Each player would start exactly as the original game: one base, placed on that country's territory and hidden from the other players, a certain number of soldiers and craft, all equipped with human technology and some limited funding.
In order to win the game each player would have to capture UFOs, so that its scientists could research the technology and sell any extra items for cash (to build new bases, hire soldiers, etc). But the player wouldn't be limited to striking at the aliens: he could detect and shoot down the other player's craft (and attempt to recover it afterwards) and strike at their bases (when he stumbled upon any of them). That way he could gain technology/artifacts/money from other players to further his own cause. He would even be able to exchange/sell/buy weapons from other players and enter temporary alliances.
The winner would be the first player to get to Cydonia (or T'Leth or any similar goal).

#9 DaiShiva

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Posted 23 June 2004 - 02:04 PM

Here is how I was thinking of a persistent game state:

Each player gets their own planet. In order to get all set up, the game plays like single player. You shoot down alien ships, do research, be diplomatic, whatever. This allows you to acquire funds, train your soldiers, do research, just get prepared for the larger battles later.

Upon eradication of the aliens on your planet (or sooner, maybe as a research item) you can expand your territory, look for new planets to conquer. You are given the option to 'send a probe into uncharted systems' which would of course be another player's planet. You can now build bases and shoot down aliens on their planet (if you want to be nice) or you can attack their bases and do raids. You can co-op on missions, or deathmatch on base defenses, or get shot down by their interceptors. Once you do this, you are free to be 'invaded' by someone else now.

While you are logged out, your home planet cannot be built upon/attacked; just scouted out by other players. Bases on other players' worlds are inactive while the owner is offline/engaged in another battle (cant direct two wars at once)

Of course, the balancing systems are not detailed here, just the general idea.

#10 Llyr

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Posted 16 July 2004 - 05:53 PM

i dunno...

since i played some of these browser based massive multiplayer games for quite some time, and since i can't stop analyzing every if-you-see-Kaying game i play, i also got some idea about some of the tons of trouble such a persistent game world throws up.

ufo seems somehow predestined for massive multiplayer, still there are a lot of thing to care about.

why ufo seems perfect for massive multiplay:
the game is already split in to parts, the globalscape and the tactical part. the globalscape part can easily be scaled up to realtime play. doing all the research on a realtime basis would need months, getting your money every (whatever timespan will be chosen) also sets certain limitations to the speed of possible expandation.
on the other hand the tactical part of the game is perfect for fast online multiplay. just fight some fast match against anybody who's time to do so. organizing clans and tournaments just seems to be the natural next step.
but how to combine those two elements?

lets stay with globalscape first, and just "forget" about the tactical part. first thing is, players will want to form some kind of groups. clans, guilds, alliances, whatever they'll be called. playing together, forming sides, chatting with members of the same group, forum activity and stuff thelikes is an important element of mmogs. exchanging gaming strategies also is some important point of these groups. normally this is achieved by a technology-tree wich is very complex and allows for many different research priorities. this tree should be hardcoded i think, because having random research would make many players feel like they were just unlucky and so have no chance to line up with more advanced players. beeing not in charge on yourself but depending on randomization is rather frustrating. randomization is okay for punctual events like a single shot, but it shouldnt be used for research wich lasts for months. same chances to everyone.
so the research tree needs to be pumped up quite a lot. laser gun is followed by laser rifle which is followed by heavy laser which is followed by laser defence, is just to simple. there need to be multiple prerequisites for every research, and much more sub-steps. the different research possibilities (different weapon categories, armors, health packs, auxiliary tools,...) should make a really difficult decision. what should i research fist, where should i invest more money and time?

and i think research should never be dependent on winning certain missions. -> like stealing plasma guns from some enemy in order to be able to research it. so if you are unlucky and all your "neighbors" are rather high developed or just better players than you are, you could need endless time to be able to steal some plasma rifle. whilst some other (really bad) player may have the luck, that some willing sponsor freely surrenders in a battle, to equip him with plasma guns.

to be continued...

#11 Mustang

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Posted 29 July 2004 - 12:17 PM

So...Hows progress?


#12 Serge

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Posted 30 July 2004 - 10:11 AM

So...Hows progress?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here is our changelog. If you want to know more about the development of the game, you can subscribe to our mailing list. As you see, we are working on the game and new features are being added. The fact, you do not see a lot of announcements and discussions here does not mean that we have stopped working :)

As for massive multiplayer, it is impossible without the tasks which are currently being worked on: flexible resources management (equipment, team profiles, maps) and good server support.

PS. The latest development version is always available for download here
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#13 Exo2000

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 10:22 AM

About the economics, what about the whole Governments-siding-with-aliens thing? Would it be possible for, say, Human players to trade with Alien players in order to gain extra tech and E-115, and for aliens to gain "food" and such?

The Human player would be forced to keep his meetings secret, perhaps by meeting away from his base. But if he was discovered, obviously he would be prime target for all other Human Players.
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#14 Overtake

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Posted 30 August 2004 - 03:35 PM

Hi guys

I'm reading a bit more everyday. Today was the Massive Multiplayer thread. Very interesting concept, it should make a fantastic game.

But I was thinking of another possibility: why not create a paralel structure to this, where a group of people could go into an adventure like a RPG? I mean a person, book, kind of RPG. The master is the guy who creates the script that details the progress of the adventure. The players will have to deal with the details the master created. It's a kind of script scenarios like we have on other games like Civ3 or Age of Empires, but multiplayer.
These situations can then maybe develop into plain multiplayer scenarios (because they will have certain particular instances, characters, etc).

I guess that by creating these limited (with an end) adventures, we can test the ideas for the massive multiplayer universe, besides creating a scheme of game that can go forever (provided there are masters creating the adventures).

{}Overtake

#15 Serge

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Posted 31 August 2004 - 12:05 PM

It is too early to think about RPG elements, there are too many other tasks that need to be done first :)

But anyway, if you manage to create a detailed description of some simple yet playable set of RPG features that can improve the game, that would be very good. If they will be not difficult to implement, the chances that they will go into one of the next versions are much higher. An ideal solution would be to find a developer who can start making this RPG part of the game (though the developers are the people who are very hard to find).

Edit: By the way, here is a thread discussing a project trying to create X-COM inspired RPG for Palm: http://www.xcomufo.c...?showtopic=5307

Edited by Serge, 31 August 2004 - 12:38 PM.

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#16 Exo2000

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Posted 31 August 2004 - 01:05 PM

I'd like to see character improvement for the Geoscape/MMO mode. As well as manufacturing, research and all that blab. It'd all be down to whether one alien player or X-COM player screwed up.

And personally, I'd like to see further development of the existing weapon trees. Like a Heavier Laser Cannon that is more like a Rocket Launcher than a Heavy Cannon in terms of Laser weapons, and perhaps an Alien Rocket Launcher that's middling between Heavy Plasma and Blaster Launcher kinda thing.

Oh, and the option for Aliens to establish bases on Earth, as well as having their orbital command centers and resources from Mars. Perhaps a "ratings" system equal to that of the human's for the aliens, ie, the better they do, the more money/resources the Brain is willing to entrust to it's loyal subjects (or commanders, in this case). Of course, if they lose a base, then the Brain will be infuriated and penalize them. Etc. Etc.

Of course, the overall objective of the Aliens is to stop the Humans developing the Avenger, and the overall objective of the Humans is to research enough tech to get the Avenger and go blow up the Brain.

Hmmm... Orbital Command Centers... now there's an idea. I shall begin work on a design for one shortly, just for a laugh. Then I'll do some sorta X-COM Space Station.
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#17 The Master Maniac

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Posted 31 August 2004 - 03:01 PM

Is, perhaps, the entire game community going to play using the same geoscape? I think that would be the way to go. The Aliens going for the humans' throats, the humans fighting against a seemingly invincible onslaught--man, that would totally rock. Especially if every player could contribute to the "game."

#18 Exo2000

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Posted 31 August 2004 - 03:12 PM

You could have private servers perhaps so that people who want a slightly calmer introduction to the game can start in a geoscape with less players.

I was thinking that perhaps that all the branches of X-COM receive their independant funding, as do the alien forces, but they can turn on one another should one of them start... "assisting" the aliens. Rogue X-COM providing the Aliens with test subjects, in return for E-115 and tech. Suspicions arise... blah blah... X-COM notice the rogues landing Skyrangers on cities... get it looked in to... and it all turns out they're turncoats.

That'd be fun.

I'd play the Aliens that would be providing the Rogues with E-115 in exchange for test subjects and such. I'd be in a situation where, even if I found out, my colleagues wouldn't start gunning me because I'd be getting something "we" all needed for a low price and perhaps even giving off dud E-115 and empty clips/guns. Mwhahahaha.
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#19 Hobbes

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Posted 31 August 2004 - 05:32 PM

And personally, I'd like to see further development of the existing weapon trees. Like a Heavier Laser Cannon that is more like a Rocket Launcher than a Heavy Cannon in terms of Laser weapons, and perhaps an Alien Rocket Launcher that's middling between Heavy Plasma and Blaster Launcher kinda thing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


IMHO, I think it is better not to include very destructive weaponry on the game. I completely agree with the heavy plasmas having no autofire otherwise they would become too powerful. And I don't particular miss the blaster launcher because with a lucky shot at the first turn a player could win the game.
One thing I would suggest though is to upgrade the heavy laser into something more useful: XComUtil upgrades the xcom version to a 85 damage rating, 75% accuracy in snap shot (retaining the 33% TU usage). It turns it to something similar in accuracy to the heavy plasma, although slightly less powerful.

There are three factors involved in creating any type of weapon: damage, TU usage and accuracy. For instance, one idea I've seen circuling in xcom forums is a laser minigun: it would have an 85 rating like the heavy laser, with the rifle's TU usage (2 autoshots per turn). The drawback would be that it has low accuracy, like a pistol, making it more appropriate to close fighting or to clear buildings.
I think the weapons must have a balance of these factors, otherwise they will become too powerful (or too weak).

#20 The Master Maniac

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Posted 31 August 2004 - 07:56 PM

Not if you radically alter game balance. Anything could be possible.

And that turncoat idea is just awesome...

#21 Exo2000

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Posted 01 September 2004 - 01:57 AM

And personally, I'd like to see further development of the existing weapon trees. Like a Heavier Laser Cannon that is more like a Rocket Launcher than a Heavy Cannon in terms of Laser weapons, and perhaps an Alien Rocket Launcher that's middling between Heavy Plasma and Blaster Launcher kinda thing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


IMHO, I think it is better not to include very destructive weaponry on the game. I completely agree with the heavy plasmas having no autofire otherwise they would become too powerful. And I don't particular miss the blaster launcher because with a lucky shot at the first turn a player could win the game.
One thing I would suggest though is to upgrade the heavy laser into something more useful: XComUtil upgrades the xcom version to a 85 damage rating, 75% accuracy in snap shot (retaining the 33% TU usage). It turns it to something similar in accuracy to the heavy plasma, although slightly less powerful.

There are three factors involved in creating any type of weapon: damage, TU usage and accuracy. For instance, one idea I've seen circuling in xcom forums is a laser minigun: it would have an 85 rating like the heavy laser, with the rifle's TU usage (2 autoshots per turn). The drawback would be that it has low accuracy, like a pistol, making it more appropriate to close fighting or to clear buildings.
I think the weapons must have a balance of these factors, otherwise they will become too powerful (or too weak).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


The thing was, if alien players want to blow stuff up without using grenades (say their men can't throw for... well... to save their damn lives) then they don't have to risk a Blaster Launcher. The "ALR" wouldn't have different ammo types, it's basic one with equivalent damage to (or perhaps slightly stronger than) an alien 'nade with about as much TU use as the normal LR. (maybe a little more) So it's basically an Alien RPG, or "Rocket Propelled Grenade". If they (the aliens) terrorized early on and had a Blaster Launcher, a few lucky shots from some punk in a t-shirt could disable el blasto launchero and then they just gun down the rest of your team. Hey presto, one Blaster Launcher for X-COM, plus alloys and elerium to make ammo.

If the aliens could co-ordinate their movements then they could pin down the bases whilst the others terrorize and then X-COM would lose funding. If I was an alien commander I would attempt to infiltrate one of the backwater countries that most needed the "help", because they would give the most for it.

Not if you radically alter game balance. Anything could be possible.

And that turncoat idea is just awesome...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


It'll be biased in favour of the aliens at the start of course. Though perhaps the Server Admin could change and restart so the balance is neutral, X-COM or Alien, and also toggle what researches X-COM have done.

As-is, the research tree will already need reworking, I'd also like to see the Aliens "adapt" some human tech or something.

(And sorry for the doublepost. ¬_¬ Forgot about multiquoting)
edit by j'ordos : posts merged

Edited by j'ordos, 01 September 2004 - 06:37 AM.

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#22 SupSuper

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Posted 01 September 2004 - 12:07 PM

Exo2000's right, many balance issues will need to be fixed for multiplayer. On the original X-Com, the aliens are supposed to have everything better than the x-com as to provide a challenging game to beat. However, in multiplayer, this would give a big advantage over the aliens.
For example, x-com has to research alien artifacts to get better technology, while the aliens already start with the "better technology". So each side should have to research the other's technology to unlock better technology. this also forces them to battle enemy teams to progress on the game, instead of just sitting there minding their own business, and early too so that the enemy hasn't had time to "out-tech" the player.
on the weaponry topic, maybe each side should focus on weapons on a certain type, so each side has a different advantage (for example, aliens could be better at short-range destructive weapons, while x-com was better at accurate long-range weapons) which would allow for different strategies and tactics for each side :)

too bad, now you will never know the ancient secrets of supsupers long gone avatar ;)

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#23 Exo2000

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Posted 03 September 2004 - 02:31 AM

Indeed. And multiple commanders at missions? Like three or four way missions? The teams of two commanders would certainly be damned helpful for base defense.

I'm gonna take a crack at some sort of UFO Hangar perhaps, but here's my current list:

1. Alien Orbital Command Center
2. X-COM Space Station (a new one, not that silly one I made)
3. Alien Hangar

Expect it to be some time...

~~

Update:

I just thought of something. Research Players. Basically, players who do no fighting, but they research stuff for the good of the rest of the Alien Forces, they devote large amounts of time to discovering new tech and sharing it.

The MMO of UFO2k needs a "Diplomacy" button. Buttons like "Shared Tech", "Shared Radar Information" (which can reveal the location of bases), "Ally", "Neutral", "Enemy", "Conned Idiot" (like ally, but only used on rogue X-COM) as well as a personal "aptitude" or "job" tab that you can select. It'll show your job to all the other players on your side. So you can tell who are shock troops, who terrorizes, who flies about to distract interceptors from more important targets, who organizes base attacks with his colleagues and so on and so forth. As well as directors/members of the Scientific Division and such.

Edited by Exo2000, 03 September 2004 - 02:39 AM.

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#24 Exo2000

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Posted 14 September 2004 - 09:59 AM

And in case no-one noticed the thread here, here's a link to the X-COM Base Sub I made:

http://www.xcomufo.c...?showtopic=5669

Currently working on an Alien Orbital Command Center. So far the forward Command Deck is complete and I'm filling in as I go along, altering the original design plans to suit whatever happens. It's shaping up nicely, despite the fact it only has the upper and lower Command Decks completed so far.

EDIT: 123 MCDs of 253 used.. wewt. That's about... oh... 130 more to spare! Booyah. Anyone want to suggest more tilesets for me to use? So far I'm using U_EXT02, U_WALL02, U_OPER2, U_PODS, U_BITS, UFO1 and UFOBITS. The latter two are the tiny Ufos that only contain one alien.

Edited by Exo2000, 14 September 2004 - 10:02 AM.

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#25 Hailfire22

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Posted 14 September 2004 - 10:05 AM

Currently working on an Alien Orbital Command Center. So far the forward Command Deck is complete and I'm filling in as I go along, altering the original design plans to suit whatever happens. It's shaping up nicely, despite the fact it only has the upper and lower Command Decks completed so far.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


You have any screenshots of what you have so far? I'd love to see how much you've gotten done.

Edited by Hailfire22, 14 September 2004 - 10:05 AM.


#26 Exo2000

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Posted 14 September 2004 - 10:20 AM

Not yet, and it's barely two decks and only the command centers. I'll unveil this big boy when it's done, then and only then. To keep you all in suspense. :D
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#27 Hailfire22

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Posted 14 September 2004 - 10:23 AM

Not yet, and it's barely two decks and only the command centers. I'll unveil this big boy when it's done, then and only then. To keep you all in suspense. :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I'm already shaking. :o

#28 Exo2000

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Posted 14 September 2004 - 10:47 AM

It's almost done :D

Just need to add the finishing touches to the Engine Block and we're done. I think anyone who likes detail will -LOVE- the Small Scout UFO docked in the central Hangar. ^_^

EDIT: Here she is, Booyah, V1. :D

Ceiling.png

It's the roof. Yahoo. Big deal.

Deck3.png

Upper Storage, Top of Hangar and Level3 Engine Rooms. The mystical gravlift's use will be later explained.

Deck2.png

The Small Scout as said. Somewhat battered and beaten, but still alive. Also, two tiny scouts/probes are docked. ^_^

The Commander's Room can clearly be seen with it's funky purple flooring. Level2 Engine Rooms are clearly visible at the rear of the ship.

GroundDeck.png

And the lower Command Deck, complete with plenty of pilot room. Also, the Sleeping/Stasis Quarters, the bottom of that mystical gravlift, now with a label, and the lower three engine rooms. Also, the entrances for the tiny scouts/probes are there too.

Edited by Exo2000, 14 September 2004 - 11:15 AM.

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#29 Hailfire22

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Posted 14 September 2004 - 03:23 PM

:master:

*Sniff* I'm gonna be so proud of my little alien base when MMO is ready. Nice work man. Very nice.

Edited by Hailfire22, 14 September 2004 - 03:27 PM.


#30 Hailfire22

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Posted 14 September 2004 - 09:39 PM

Hey Exo2000, do you have some sort of website where you show all of your maps and designs?

#31 Hailfire22

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Posted 20 September 2004 - 10:17 AM

Here's a document I made on how the aliens should be in the MMO version of xcomufo. This is just a rough estimate with no "hard" data. If only my computer would play X-COM with out running it at light speed.....

Also, to everyone who reads this, give me your comments and suggestions! Good OR bad!

EDIT: Disregard the attachment! Some/most people might not be able to read the document due to format! See later post for .txt attachment! Thank you!

Attached Files


Edited by Hailfire22, 21 September 2004 - 05:08 PM.


#32 HaJo

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Posted 20 September 2004 - 10:36 AM

If only my computer would play X-COM with out running it at light speed.....


Did you try ufo-gold (version for win95) ?

#33 Hailfire22

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Posted 20 September 2004 - 10:37 AM

Did you try ufo-gold (version for win95) ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


No, I have CE.

#34 The Master Maniac

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Posted 20 September 2004 - 03:10 PM

I think they're one and the same. Right, HaJo?

#35 Hailfire22

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Posted 20 September 2004 - 04:26 PM

Ok, that problem is for another area in the forum. Now what does everyone think of my ideas?

#36 Exo2000

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Posted 21 September 2004 - 10:43 AM

Your funky lil' document there crashes Wordpad whenever I try to open it. Any chance you could make a .txt version for Notepad?
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#37 Hailfire22

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Posted 21 September 2004 - 04:02 PM

Your funky lil' document there crashes Wordpad whenever I try to open it. Any chance you could make a .txt version for Notepad?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Sure can. Try this out everyone.

Attached Files



#38 Hailfire22

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Posted 21 September 2004 - 04:10 PM

Your funky lil' document there crashes Wordpad whenever I try to open it. Any chance you could make a .txt version for Notepad?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I just realized something, that it is a Microsoft Word Processing document so you wouldn't be able to read it! :idea: I should have realize that others might not have the required program! ^_^ Hope the above attachment works for you (and all the others..). And by the way, this will be my 50th post! Yea for me! :happybanana:

Edited by Hailfire22, 21 September 2004 - 05:11 PM.


#39 Exo2000

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Posted 22 September 2004 - 12:58 PM

Hmm, not bad. Fairly even I'd say. I like the "only picking one race" idea, that would certainly make it more even for humans. Coz they'd only have to face one race at a time, they might get lucky and get Sectoids. Of course, the number of players willing to play the bug-eyed freaks would be pretty low, apart from the good Psy stats.

I'd probably be either Muton or Ethereal. Mwhaha. ^_^
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#40 Hailfire22

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Posted 23 September 2004 - 07:40 AM

Hmm, not bad. Fairly even I'd say. I like the "only picking one race" idea, that would certainly make it more even for humans. Coz they'd only have to face one race at a time, they might get lucky and get Sectoids. Of course, the number of players willing to play the bug-eyed freaks would be pretty low, apart from the good Psy stats.

I'd probably be either Muton or Ethereal. Mwhaha. ^_^

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Same here :beer: Nice to know that that it's fairly even and some like my idea of one race picking. You forgot though that their soldiers are cheap and quick to "build" making them probably the most seen early game due to the fact that sectoids can risk more people. Us ethereal players will have to be more clever and careful early game <_< . Therefore players won't really have to worry about "high level" aliens until mid/late game (in other words, fight super-soldiers while they have only rifles/lasers). But then I do see your point on how psy is the only thing going for them.

And Serge, I'd really like your comments, seeing how you are the "main" developer.

Edited by Hailfire22, 23 September 2004 - 10:24 AM.


#41 Chris StarShade

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Posted 26 September 2004 - 09:35 PM

I would like to reccomend expanding your thought processes a bit. Rather than have each player responsible for a single base, have them responsible for an entire PLANET! And when they are not being attacked by player(s) from another planet, they can use their resources to assault another player's planet.

That's my thought anyway. >.>


You need to come up with a research tree for the aliens. Make all aliens start as Sectoids with no psionic power. They must RESEARCH to unlock their latent power (and then it is only manifested in their leaders and commanders).

Special research options to allow the Cloning of other races might be: The Floater Experiment; Snakeman Breeding; Muton Control; and Ethereal Diplomacy.


My thought is, at the start the aliens will have access only to:

Small and Medium Scout craft types, and the Plasma Pistol (and associated clip)

Possible Research Tree:
Advanced Units:
Sight Augmentation (Improves eyesight of aliens so they always receive 'daylight' maps even if it is night) -- The Floater Experiment(Prereq: Alien Abduction) -- Snakeman Breeding(Alien Harvest) -- Muton Control (Prereq: Psionic Power) -- Ethereal Diplomacy

Alien Grenade - Small Launcher/Stun Bomb - Blaster Launcher/Blaster Bomb(Battleship)

Plasma Rifle/Clip -- Heavy Plasma/Clip -- Cyberdisc(Psionic Power)



All other alien based weaponry must be researched normally.

Alien 'money' is acquired on the completion of alien missions, as opposed to the manner of X-COM funding.

All this, I am coming up with at night, so it is vastly incomplete, but I could write up a whole research tree the way I'm thinking about it right now.
Psionics? Bah! Glorified staring contest.

#42 Hailfire22

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 10:06 AM

I would like to reccomend expanding your thought processes a bit.  Rather than have each player responsible for a single base, have them responsible for an entire PLANET!  And when they are not being attacked by player(s) from another planet, they can use their resources to assault another player's planet. 

You need to come up with a research tree for the aliens.  Make all aliens start as Sectoids with no psionic power.  They must RESEARCH to unlock their latent power (and then it is only manifested in their leaders and commanders). 

Special research options to allow the Cloning of other races might be: The Floater Experiment; Snakeman Breeding; Muton Control; and Ethereal Diplomacy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


My only problem with these two is that you will eventually get what happens in about every RTS, teching. People will have no incentive to get/use floaters when you can research/use ethereals and mutons (after accomplishing all the required missions, of course). Also, the owning the planet thing has one disadvantage. Humans can't strike back. If someone is not doing anything, did badly, or got the crap beat out of them, then the humans should be able to hit back. The aliens can do the same to humans (if they know where the base is) so why not the other way around? And I don't think that we will be limited to one base (hopefully). I do like your ideas on the tech tree. I think though you should be able to start out with Plasma pistols AND alien grenades because humans have rockets, auto-cannon, etc. Us aliens will get owned by them and won't have a chance. But then it is your right to have a different opinion so write up a tech-tree and post some more suggestions, I'd like to see more of your ideas!

Edited by Hailfire22, 27 September 2004 - 10:10 AM.


#43 Exo2000

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 04:48 PM

IMO, the planets thing is a little TOO big. It'll be easier to constrict it to one planet for now, then other servers can be run if you want a smaller game or whatever.

And forcing people to start as dumbass sectoids is mean. They'd get SLAUGHTERED. Especially newbs. Perhaps your starting race gets certain starting stuff;

Ethereals: Plasma Pistols, Psi Amp
Mutons: Plasma Pistols, H. Plasmas
Floaters: Plasma Rifles, P. Pistols
Sectoids: P. Rifles, P. Pistols
Snakemen: P. Rifles, P. Pistols

Those are all the races I can think of. It makes you think tactically... "do I prefer burst, or aimed, or snap?" because Heavy Plasma only does Aimed and Snap. Rifles + Pistols can do Burst, Aimed and Snap, hence he who wants to deal more damage at once must choose carefully. "Three shots which are weaker but three chances to hit, over one powerful shot which will probably one-hit kill, if it hits, but if it doesn't, it's a waste and is very AP draining?"

EDIT: Typo in the tags <_<

Edited by Exo2000, 27 September 2004 - 04:49 PM.

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#44 SupSuper

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Posted 28 September 2004 - 06:12 AM

the only problem i can see is the one most strategy games have. in x-com singleplayer the player is impelled to research the tech tree to get decent equipment against the aliens and eventually finish the game. in MMO, both sides must have more or less the same stuff, tech or otherwise.
what won't tell you that players will beat the others just by getting masses of weak soldiers to outnumber the enemy or for the winner to be the one that attacks first without the other player being prepared, instead of actually going up the research tree to become more powerful?
quite a problem, i say.

Edited by SupSuper, 28 September 2004 - 06:13 AM.

too bad, now you will never know the ancient secrets of supsupers long gone avatar ;)

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#45 Hailfire22

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Posted 28 September 2004 - 10:12 AM

Ethereals: Plasma Pistols, Psi Amp

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


If I'm right, aren't the ethereal's psy powers natural? To me the Psi Amp was just for humans (seeing our psy powers are weaker, hence the Amplification added to the end of the black/purple thingies name). I think the ethereals should have it as a ablility that is natural (meaning they can all do it without the help of technology), just that you have to research it for lower ranking ethereals. Now sectoids would have to have it for their leaders, seeing that they seem to not be so far up the evolutionary ladder as the ethereals are.

#46 Hailfire22

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Posted 28 September 2004 - 10:21 AM

in MMO, both sides must have more or less the same stuff, tech or otherwise.
what won't tell you that players will beat the others just by getting masses of weak soldiers to outnumber the enemy or for the winner to be the one that attacks first without the other player being prepared, instead of actually going up the research tree to become more powerful?
quite a problem, i say.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Not quite. This is still I think more of a tactical game than strategy and if the tech was even then there are a few more factors to add in.

1.) Your soldier's experience. If your guys have been in more battles then the weak soldiers you have an edge. You can shoot more, hit more, carry more, etc. Just like in the real world, 1 well trained man can kill 5 untrained men.

2.) Player's skill can be taken into account. If the person is not as good at commanding as his opponent, then he will be unable to use his soldiers to their full advantage.

Of course you can always have another server where the players agree not to mass men up and overwhelm others.

#47 Deathskull

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Posted 15 October 2004 - 12:53 PM

hows progress?
USA Today has come out with a new survey: Apparently three out of four people make up 75 percent of the population.
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#48 Hailfire22

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Posted 15 October 2004 - 01:44 PM

hows  progress?

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Well as far as the MMO is concerned it hasn't even been started on. It most likely won't until the tactical game features have been worked out and all the required parts (HWP's, aliens, etc.) are added in. Until then you're with the rest of us, waiting for it to come out. <_<

Edited by Hailfire22, 15 October 2004 - 01:45 PM.


#49 Serge

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Posted 15 October 2004 - 11:32 PM

hows  progress?

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Well as far as the MMO is concerned it hasn't even been started on. It most likely won't until the tactical game features have been worked out and all the required parts (HWP's, aliens, etc.) are added in. Until then you're with the rest of us, waiting for it to come out. <_<

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


In fact, MMO largely depends on game server. It does not support persistent player's profiles currently (even score can't be stored for a long time and we are restricted with one week long ratings only). We have started porting the server to Python with MySQL database backend, but this work stalled :( So we have unfinished Python based server at lxnt.info:2000 and old server at lxnt.info:2001

MMO does not depend on HWP's and the number of supported aliens. We just need to store all soldiers, items data and also research status on server side, add money or some equivalent, make the players recruit new soldiers to replace those who died, buy weapons and equipment.

One more requirement is to improve game engine stability as nobody would like to lose his carefully assembled team because of a single crash.
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#50 SupSuper

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Posted 16 October 2004 - 01:41 PM

you also need to make sure there's a "save game" feature so that people can continue their games later, because they'll probably become very long (like Civ3 online) and ppl won't have all the time in the world to continue them. and it'll also need some sort of system to check if all the players are still the same as when the game was saved (probably comparing username/password).

too bad, now you will never know the ancient secrets of supsupers long gone avatar ;)

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